I have someone come over and comment on my Cetme part 1 video that you can not shoot .308 Win. out of that rifle. I am trying to tell him in a nice way that he has no idea what he is talking about. You decide, I am wrong here ?
I am really glad he raised your concern level cause I had this very question. And now it has been sternly clarified. Also this is the only video I saw that did so. So thanks to both of you.
Great video, my friend. Very concise and well stated. Thank you for qualifying your statement with ballistics and specs. I appreciate the time you took to make your case and back it up. I'm jealous that you've got a CETME, BTW, if only I had the money to get one!! It's only a matter of time until I add one to my collection. Have a great day. AJ
Damn man! Watching some old videos while under quarantine in Washington state. Decided too look up the real differences between 7.62x51 and 308. I gotta say, you covered it from every freaking angle possible. If people don’t get it after watching your video...... they need to turn over their firearms and buy some airsoft guns!! GREAT VIDEO!
ChromeFreak123: "...cat get out of here!", Cat: "meow" LMAO this is the greatest video ever. But really good hw you did here and I appreciate the video. Thank you
I have spent time in the ammo lab doing pressure testing. 308Win and 7.62 have similar pressure limits (around 62,000 psi). They are interchangeable. But, if you reload ammo, you use a bit less powder in 7.62 because of the reduced case capacity - about 2 grains less.
Great Video!...I Was actually wondering my self and trying to research this information, and you pretty much explained everything i needed to know. Thanks!
I remember back when I purchased a Springfield M1A which was in the first run, if I remember right. Factory told me not to use Remington brand .308 ammo. Case pressures is probably the reason, but too long ago, I just don't remember. I do remember being told that Winchester ammo was OK. I might have the two brands reversed. 40+ yrs. ago
it is when you reload the cases, you can get in trouble. if you put a Winchester load in a nato case, pressure will build to high and you can get gas leaks around the primer or primer blow out.
Thank you for making that clear. My father was in WWII, Korea. A lot of things changed in the years after that. But he told me 308 can shoot both but 7.62 NATO can't shoot 308. That may be where many have gotten there information. 50 years ago that may have been true. But most guns can do both now because they make them to do both. The 308 was made to use the 7.62 NATO they wanted a gun to use the surplus ammo. That is why the 308 was made! They can look that up! 308 guns were made to shoot 7.62 NATO! That was the reason they made it.
There's a chicken and egg argument for this one - Winchester took the T65 and made it civilian 2 years before it was officially adopted as a military round, but it was an experimental military round first, not that any of this matters. The long and short of it is, the .308/7.62x51 is great and winchester/NATO made the .300 Savage redundant.
There are some minor difference in the .223 and the 5.56 round. However, there is no difference in the outside diameter of the .308 and 7.62x51, they are the same round. I appreciate the comment my friend. : )
Any military spec chamber is a little bigger than a commercial, it is to help feeding and reliability. However, this video is on the cartridge themselves and the the cartridges are the exact same in their outside dimensions. The only difference is the thickness of the case wall. Therefore the inside dimension of the cartridge is a little different but the only need to worry about that, is if you are reloading. Thanks.
The 7.62 Nato round is a military specification for a .308 round. The difference is in the camber on the rifle, 7,62 nato rifle' s camber is about.01 inches. deeper, This is to prevent jamming when fired on full auto.. .
That was friggen comedy!!! Poor kitty only wanted some love from daddy but all it got was a cat getouttahere~~~. Still lmao~~
8 лет назад
Easy killer, don't let those trolls get to you. There are millions out there that think they're experts on guns. And all they are are idiots. Great video and research on the facts. Thanks
I've used several surplus firearms chambered in 7,62x51 in recent years (Mausers, K98s, Enfield Ishapore etc)., all with 308 WIN. Same result, bang and hits accurate all the time.
I was in the military, specializing in armaments. The military literature mentioned that the 7.62 max pressure was 55,000 psi. If you read deeper into the file, it also mentioned that pressure was measured with copper crusher method. Now referred to as CUP. later, when transducers become the standard way to measure pressure, the industry adopted the system of referring to pressures as either CUP or psi. The military reference to 55,000 psi has caused many to believe that 7.62x51 is loaded to a lower pressure. No so. The limits for 308 and 7.62 are about the same - about 62,000 psi, as measured with a transducer. In practice, ammo of both flavours is typically around 56,000 psi, although I have found a few lots of 308 (Winchester Supreme match and IVI Lot 631) at 62,000 psi. Both were tested because they were causing problems in some rifles. The testing handbook specifies where the chamber pressure is to be measured. It varies from caliber to caliber. And sometimes (as in 7.62 -308) the place the pressure is measured is different in the two systems. If the place of measurement is the same, you can convert CUP to PSI mathematically, like converting MPH to KPH. But if the place of measurement is different, the two values bear no relationship to each other. There are some difference in the ammo specs - SAAMI vs. Military. The military case has a stronger, harder case head, so as to withstand violent extraction of automatic rifles. Military ammo has a muzzle flash spec. SAAMI does not. Military ammo will have a sealant in the neck. SAAMI does not. The lead core can vary in antimony content (hardness) and jacket thickness can vary as well, with military bullets being hard and commercial ammo being anything the maker finds easy to make.
i think the point is if its factory loaded your fine, if you are reloading you need to adjust your powder charge to account for the thicker brass. i have had primers blow out on nato brass i reloaded before i learned this.
jeff robison Exactly right! I've reloaded since 1966. I never reload to maximum, some do but the trade-off for 100 fps and reduced case life isn't worth it to me. I reload milsurp brass using the workup method through my chrono first time. It takes less powder in a military case to reach the same velocity, 2700 fps, as a civilian case, all other things being equal! The pressures I can't respond to, but I see no sign of excessive pressure with this method!
@mistaken2006 You just have to make sure that it is chambered for the .308 Win., like on my Cetme, it says it right in the owners manual. The only thing with commercial ammo is you can buy some rounds that are hotter than others but you should have no problems. I thank you for your input.
This conversation has been going on for many years. Anytime I get strange brass, I check it out; work up loads from the bottom to find the right load. An interesting curve I discovered was when I started neck-re-sizing. I wondered what bushing to use. Redding folks told me, "(bullet diameter + (2x neck-wall thickness))-.002." The result is a little squeeze that's adequate to keep the bullet from migrating. They told me this is about a quarter of a standard SAAMI resizing squeeze. I had lots of different brass since I pick it up off the ground whenever I can't resist it. One example of what I found is, Remington brass was as much as .015" while PPU brass was .006." You've tot to know that factor while you're trying to discover what works. I imagine that military procurement people are careful to specify thicker brass. Of course, after you're through the reloading process it's the inner and not the outer dimension that has changed so, obviously thicker brass has less capacity than the thinner stuff but, like they said, it's about two grains less. I wonder if people know that different powders take up different amounts of space. We should be looking at that while perusing all of the different powders in the reloading guides. I think most guides generally recommend filling the cartridge as much as possible so it's worth knowing which powder does what. Your skinny brass will have more internal capacity. Some folks are thrown to think they've studied all they need to know all there is to say, so they get the last word. Here's another perspective; People ask me, "How much do you save by reloading?" I say, "Nothing! I buy quality tools and dies, which can be very expensive, in order to have control over what happens when I squeeze the trigger."
In layman's terms: .308 guns are built to withstand the high pressure of .308 rounds. 7.62 NATO produce lower pressure than .308. So. You are alright putting 7.62 in a gun marked .308, but it is best to operate with caution when putting .308 through a rifle marked 7.62 NATO.
lol People are idiots. They get something in their heads & won't change their minds no matter how wrong they are. I had a G3 years ago & shot many .308 & many 7.62 NATO rounds through it.
I am agreeing with you on the handloads, what I am saying is factory loads already take it into consideration. Lyman also has several articles I think you would really enjoy reading on this subject. I am on your side.lol. Lyman and ASME both do say that the 7.62 and the .308 are interchangeable but handloaders need to do their homework when they are doing their thing. The NATO brass is thicker than commercial and that needs to be understood by handloaders. I do appreciate the conversation.
+Richard Underwood The big difference between the .308 Win and 7.62x51 NATO is in the chamber dimensions. The chambers of military weapons are larger and with a longer leade also called freebore. If you shoot 7.62 NATO in a rifle without this freebore you MAY experience over pressure. This is also the difference in 5.56 and .223. This not as big a problem with newer rifle but still is something to be aware of. The best thing you can do is make a chamber cast and measure it to know for sure. As for SAAMI they do not establish standards for military cartridges. SAMMI stands for SPORTING Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute. When I first started handloading in the 60's most of the gun Gurus advised not to shoot NATO rounds in a civilian rifle because of the short leades found in sporting rifles. Check out Weatherby chambers and you will find long leades to handle the overbore loadings necessary to achieve greater velocities. Weatherbys are not efficient but they are like race cars, high performance. Another thing about US military cartridges is that they are loaded with spherical, double base powder that causes more erosion than nitrocellulose powder. Double base powders (nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine) burn hotter than nitrocellulose powder thus causing more erosion. Hope this helps to clear up some confusion. You can't go wrong if you follow the manufactures directions.
In 1978 I bought a Remington 700 bolt rifle in 308. I was in the army at the time I have been hearing of those dangers every since. I was getting 7.62 dirt cheap, I never had any issues with nato ammo in a 308.
No, 7.62x51mm and .308win are not the same. Some rifles can shoot both and some can not. There some slight differences between the two rounds. Best thing to do is to check with the manufacturer of the firearm before trying. For example some AR platforms can only shoot .223 and some can shoot 5.56 and .223. Besides the 7.62x51mm having thicker walls in the brass casing they are also .013" longer than .308win which could some problems there also some other differences.
2.23 and 5.56 have different dimensions. The .308 and 7.62x51 have the exact same dimensions. One is not longer than the other. The wall thickness is internal and only effects would be if you reload. They are the same round. Thanks.
The main difference in a CARTRIDGE length has more to do with actual bullet weight (length). To keep chamber pressures under the maximum a heavier bullet will seat the same depth but protrude farther out of the cartridge. If a rifle is chambered for 7.62 NATO it will safely fire .308 WIN AND vice-versa. This is not the same argument as with firing 5.56 NATO in a .223 Remington rifle. ChromeFreak123, you sir, are correct. By the way I have a .308Win Remington 700, a Ruger M77 in .308 and I have sent hundreds of rounds of 7.62 down range, and I have sent a huge abundance of .308 Win down range thru my M1A....long story short, I'm either very lucky or these manufacturers have their shit together.
Edmund Charles 'Yes' sometimes a rifle needs precisely a specified 7.62 vice .308 round, yet in my experience this is the exception and not the rule. Firearms manufacturers try to make products that are diversified in terms of the ammunition that can be fired and thus aim to manufacture firearms that can withstand the most modern high pressure cartridges available.
You are both right and both wrong, the new century arms can shoot 308 if you put it in an older Cetme it will not despite being a roller blow back system. please do not tell people to use 308 in a gun chambered for 7.62. Now that said, you can use 7.62 in a 308 just like you can use 223 in a 5.56 but NOT in reverse. So you made a big deal over nothing , gave bad advice to anyone with a 7.62 chambered gun and argued with someone with correct information about Cetme's before they were sold as rechambered 308"s well done!
+Pierre Joliat You know of course 7.62 X 55 has two variants (NATO) uses . They work at different pressures and fire different rounds. The M 118 pops out 175 Gr rounds at about 2650 FPS the The normal belt def 7.62 X 51 pumps out 155 grain rounds at 4250 FPS all + - 50 FPS . I play with these things a lot and have done so as part of an army. (A lot) I would go into the reasoning for these variations ; but that would consume to much time . If anyone interested looks up M 118 7.62 X 51 ammo and compares the material to sports related 308 you will see they are at both sides of commercial ammunition.
@GordonTurnerpark I explain about internal dimensions in the video but disagree about brass seperation. I have never had a problem with either in any case. I will also say SAMI and Lyman both call it the same round with no problems with being interchangeable. I have had brass come apart or split in many rounds but never in this case althougfh I will not say it won't happen, it is not a dangerous thing. thanks for your input. : )
you commented about 223 and 556, and this those rounds there is difference depending how your weapon is designed. there some rifles that are only designed for 223 and you can damage it if you put 556 in there. There are actually differences not just pressures. But in 308 and 7.62 its not case.
If you want my 5 cents, wrting to you from Spain and having served in the Spanish army with this rifle, the rifle shoots both beautifully and I have shot many rounds of it. In fact, this rifle is marketed in Spain for the civil market by modifying the bolt head to accept 307W, the rimmed version of 308W (it's a legal trick ). We don't usually reload military brass, at least most of us don't, because of the difficulty removing berdan primers or finding the primers for reloading. For practice we use both the NATO and the 308W round in this rifle or the Santa Barbara Police 75 (the former police sharpshooter mauser style rifle). I have shot thousands of rounds in both rifles and both ammunitons, so yes, no problem shooting either one. The only problem we have with military surplus ammunition is the bad quality of the bullets (inconsistent bullet weight) and sometimes the case dimensions but, this beast will and does shoot both of them without problems and work ok for general military use. The problems only arise when you want very good accuracy and to avoid problems you have to use good grade 308W commercial or carefully handloaded ammunition. This is what military or police sharpshooters did in Spain. About the guy that pissed you off, in Spain we say opinnions are like asses: everybody has one Regarding the 223 version of this CETME (CETME L) stay way from it. Although the prototype rifles worked beautifully with the spanish marines ( oldest marine corps 1537 aD), the manufacturing was a disaster because they cut costs in materials and manufacturing procedures and a some design changes to make it as cheap as the AR 15 and it was a disaster with some not making to the 1000 round limit. The problem really was in the labour/trade unions and salaries and not in the design but, some stupid politician and army official failed to see it Going back to the 7,62, some gunsmith modified models feature a carefully headspaced and selected barrel (308W/762x51) slightly tilted downwards and have no muzzle climb when shooting 2 round bursts (using a special selector)or full auto and shoot peanut size groups at 100m (seen it with my own eyes). The original barrel in this weapon is cold hammer forged. This makes it not only precise but also hard wearing.
Thanks! Great info! I think that guy who pissed you off was trolling you. You shouldn't let people like that control your emotions. But I am glad you made this video. Thanks again!
This happened to me last night at Walmart... I was there to buy ammo, and the guy next to me started yapping about how they never carry .308. I pointed at the 30+ boxes of 7.62x51 and told him, those will probably work just fine. Douche bag exploded telling me how wrong I was and how I would blow up my rifle... I replied " Yeah...my rifle that has over 4,000 rounds through it with both ammos and its fine.....but w.e guy" That's the last fucking time I help anyone out...
Don't be too cruel in your lambast here, the person is not an expert in this area and is only doing his/her best to sell you a product, be this ammo, a dishwasher, TV, etc. Just smile and be the quiet expert.
The reason some people believe it's a big deal is because in the original CETME rifles, it was. There was actually a 7.62 CETME that was the same size externally as the 7.62x51 NATO. But the CETME rifle couldn't handle that much pressure, so they watered it down with the 7.62 CETME That's not to say your rifle has this handicap, though. I'm sure your owners manual would say so, if it was. Besides, you can't buy the 7.62 CETME because no one makes it, anymore. I make a watered down 7.62x51 NATO for my FR-7 Spanish Mauser. Full power 308s could, in theory damage the receiver on a it, as it was originally designed for a 7mm Mauser. It was re chambered to 7.62 CETME for use as a training rifle, back in the 1950s sometime. SAMCO imports them as a .308 Win. Full power loads were starting to cause lug setback, so I started doing a lot of research on the subject.
+Ian Thompson Generally speaking I have heard that 7.62 in a .308 is perfectly acceptable. If you wanna shoot 7.62 in a .308 bolt gun there should not be any issue. There is no gas system to worry about which is where much of the concern between .308/7.62 sits. I have shot a friend's T3 chambered in .308 using ZQI 7.62 with no apparent issues. My PTR-91 is chambered in .308 and I shoot 7.62 out of it primarily, though I've also shot more than my fair share of .308 out of it. No issues.
I do it all the time. I reload for my savage model 12 308. My typical targets are 400 to 500 yards. I have a few hundred, never fired, 7.62x51 LC cases. I put the same powder charges in them as I do the Winchester 308 cases. Both shoot identical at 500 yards. My target is a 12x20 steel target. I can pull off head shots with both loads... the head is 3x3 inches. Now if the loads were compressed, it would be a different story. They are no where near compressed.
Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question “are the .308 Winchester and 7.62×51 NATO one and the same.” The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62×51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win “Go Gauge” is 1.630″ vs. 1.635″ for the 7.62×51. The .308’s “No-Go” dimension is 1.634″ vs. 1.6405″ for a 7.62×51 “No Go” gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62×51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: “[N]obody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn’t to the .308 ‘headspace’ dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule.” You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62×51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max.
I do not reload and do not know a ton about powders. the military tolerances are more forgiving due to full auto, less cleaning and obviously the barrels are under a lot more stress. I still stand by that both guns will be fine shooting the .308 or the 7.62x51, externally the same size. Thanks for commenting.
@rladams1972 I am saying that the Cetme built by century arms safely shhot both the 7.62 and the .308 win. It even says .308 Win, on the barrel. Thanks.
I have fired hundreds of rounds of both through an imbel fal. No issues. The ninth edition of the Hornady reloading manual lists the same case specs for 308 and 308 service rifle (which is the 762x51). For similar bullet weights and the same powder, the powder charge range is the same (37-41 grains for 150 grain bullet). I have seen recommendations in many forums for lowering the powder charge for milspec brass, but as I said, I have fired both. Any reloader should be starting low and working up anyway.
I recently purchased 7.62x51 ammo to be fired in a .308 Remington 700 bolt rifle. It would not fit based on the necking of the cartridge. Both rounds have the same diameter but the crimping in the neck prevents the 7.62 from being properly seated. Thus prevents the bolt from being locked and fired. Just my experience that's all.
If the owners manual says that, then go by it but I have not seen that. There are also no differences in pressure, well, very little. SAAMI and also Lyman both say the rounds are completely interchangeable. Thanks.
As for a case ripping on a G3 during extraction, I dont know about that since the delayed blowback design places the force on the spent case & bolt face at the same time, in the same direction, during extraction cycle. The extractor only holds the case for the ejector to do its job, or to extract an unfired round. A delayed blowback rifle will extract the case from the chamber even if the extractor is completely removed from the bolt face.
@SuperEffectsMASTER I hear you bro.. That is because they are the same round. lol. I don't understand some of these guys and where they get their info. I will say that on old military firearms that are chambered in 7.62x51, make sure you shoot the 150 grain .308 Win. rounds because that was what they were designed to fire. The NATO spec. 7.62x51 is a 150 grain round, you stay with that and you won't have any issues. Thanks for the input, it means a lot to me. : )
The military rifles do have a bigger tolerance. Thats why they use 7.62x51 head space gauges. The .308 uses its own head space gauges. The 7.62 cases are thicker walled but the outside dimensions are exactly the same as .308. I believe the walls are thicker completely through the entire length of the case but I could be wrong on that. Thanks for watching.
I meant SAAMI. The CUP measurements taken way back in the day read at 52,000CUP, the new measurements taken in PSI, is 62,000PSI. Guess what, 52K CUP is exactly the same as 62K PSI. The outside measurements of the cases are identical, the NATO cases have a thicker wall. They are exactly the same round. The chamber in a NATO mil. spec rifle is a little longer but the rounds are the same outside dimensions. If you re-load, you must take that into account, otherwise, Shoot it. Thanks.
Hello, I am a retired senior EE and particle/astrophysics "hobbyist". I don't think you are stupid or wrong! I understand your frustration with the fellow who wrote. But I wouldn't be too hard on him. I think he found a single variable and thought he was doing a good thing by sounding the alarm. Since retiring, my son and I got into target shooting and then reloading. I love it. It is complicated beyond anything I could have imagined. We're having a blast! (no pun intended) I really wish to thank you and all of the other people who post helpful information. With that said, I usually take all information into consideration. When I have a question, after learning all I can in advance, I then place consultation calls to companies like gun manufacturers and powder companies. i.e. If you've never contacted Hornady, I love the tech support department. They are excellent! But I may be biased as my entire reloading room is red. ;-) As for people who disagree with you, I've heard it all my life. Some folks seem to jump in and sound the alarm. I once had a technician to go my company president and tell him I had created a bomb because I used two large batteries in a closed cabinet. The technician turned red when I informed him that gel cell batteries don't out-gas and therefore are not an explosion hazard. Sorry for the long story. But I wanted to rise in support of you and to thank you. My quote is: "I always do what I believe to be right. God and my friends will understand, but sometimes I find I don't have many friends." Also, there is this from the poet, Alexander Pope : "A little learning is a dangerous thing ; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring : There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." Thanks again, my friend! Shalom, gw * The Pierian Spring of Macedonia was sacred to the Muses, as the metaphorical source of knowledge of art and science.
@JakePVids It depends, military surplus is not as hot as most commercial ammo. I would shoot what the manufacturer suggests. In the Cetme I have, it is written in the manual that it is chambered in .308Win.. I shoot both .308Win. and 7.62X51. The only difference I am aware of is the casings on military are thicker and can't hold the same amount of powder as commercial as long as your rifle cycles with it, I see no problem but I would check with the manufacturer. I love the .308. Thanks.
@MrMVB13 That is a broad question. 7.62 X what ? I look at it like this, if the manufacturer says it is ok, then yes, I say shoot it as long as the firearm is in good shape. Thanks.
" The dimensions of the .308 Winchester are almost the same as the 7.62x51mm NATO. The chamber of the former has a marginally shorter headspace and thinner case walls than the latter due to changed specifications between 1952 and 1954. This allows the 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition to feed reliably in rifles chambered for .308 Wincester but can cause .308 Winchester ammunition cases to rupture when fired in rifles chambered for the 7.62x51mm NATO." Wikipedia.
I friend of mine (me present) almost crush the extractor mechanism of a brand new Mosberg .308 win rifle just by shooting 7.62 x 51 NATO ammo. The ammo get locked after a few shoots when the rifle get some hot. I heard later he sold the gun and the lucky buyer could finally broke the extractor by trying to remove the 7.62 shell. It is true is NOT the same ammo, so it's predectible it will behave in a different way each rifle. But that difference could be imperceptible.
@TheRubberDuck139 I thank you for understanding. I do not know everything and certainly am not by any means an expert but, a little research goes a long way. lol. Thanks for your contribution.
If your bolt is not closing, you need to check your headspace. In fact, I had to send a brand new 700 back to Remington just a week ago because it came from the factory with bad head space. The rounds are the exact same external dimensions, period. Thanks.
@jimkressin I kinda of do that in my Makarov video but maybe I will do a video showing the differences between 9mm luger 9x19 and Makarov 9x18 and also the 9x17 or .380acp rounds also called the 9mm short. Thanks and happy new year.
ChromeFreak123, what most people don't understand, is that one of the reasons for the "violent" extraction characteristics of the hk91 family of rifles is the fluted chamber. If anything, this would make this type of rifle more friendly to 308 Win ammo. There's an old video on here called "CETME can fire and Extract without Extractor" that demonstrates the benefits of the fluted chamber. It is very unlikely that you'll ever pull the rim off a case in your Cetme.
7.62×51mm NATO is from 1950 (US) for military use and the 308 is a commercial cartridge. Exactly what ChromeFreak123 said. Some people relate the differences between 7.62x51 NATO/308 like .223/5.56 comparatives where the pressure and difference is huge and both looks the same under the eye. I had one 1978 FN Fal rifle and I used both cartridges with zero problems.
I don't know weather its down to makers own design but I have cut up cases and found the 308 to be thicker. Like you say external sizes are the same and it is the chamber that stops the case from exploding, The only reason I can think of for using a thicker case is for automatic weapons as there is pressure in the casing as it is being extracted from the chamber so stopping it bulging till the gases escape around the case. I can't think of any other reason.
@XxTHENEMESISxX603 I would say yes. It is the hot hunting rounds fired from an old military firearm where you would or should have any worries. It is the same round. The brass is thicker so the only worry you should have is if you are reloading. Thanks.
I have reloaded for more than 30 years. Once the cases are trimmed there is little difference in pressure, volume, or head spacing. In fact, I find a greater variance in weight/volume by the manufacturers than by caliber. Multiple Crono test confirms this. I have loaded thousands of rounds and they all perform basically the same. But I never use max loads, usually 1 or 2 grains shy.
Thank you, I've been reloading 308 in mil brass and didn't know about the case thickness but I believe I've been save. I never load peak and always load mid range loads. Question,, Reloading manuals group both the 308win and 7.62x51 together, Do you think they are taking into consideration the case factor ?
I like your passion, you showed me you will study your facts, show them, and prove your point. I like that, and that is why I have added you to my subscribed to list. Will be the proud owner of a 308 AR10 Bushmaster next week, and cannot wait. Yes, I will be shooting different grain bullets and reloading different weights as well. I like to hunt and plink lots. Thanks.........................
I have two rifles chambered in 7.62 NATO, a Ruger SR-762(marked 7.62 NATO/.308 WIN1-10) and a Sig 716(marked 7.62 NATO 1-10). I shot a bunch of Federal and Lake City M80 which I now reload. As a standard practice, I NEVER reload any caliber to the maximums using any powder/bullet combinations. Via ladder testing, I've always found my best accuracy is not the maximum loads anyway, in any of my rifles. I use bulk Hornady 155gr HPBT for general shooting(Federal), Sierra 175gr TMK for accuracy shooting(Lake City), and Nosler 180gr AccuBonds for deer & elk hunting(Lake City), all on top of IMR 4895 (everything AR gets fed IMR 4895 exclusively). All this back & forth bickering is just that. I've never experienced a failure to chamber/extract, misfire, overpressure, or stuck case, in anything I've ever reloaded in 40 years of reloading, rifle or pistol.
thank you im formiler with many fire arms but have never owned a 308 cal rifle i was unsure the differences my self even tho u was upset u helped me alot
First, thank you so much for the kind words. There are many different 7.62 rounds. The are handgun rounds in 7.62 like the 7.62x38mmR for the Nagant revolver.The 7.62x25mm Tokarev and more. In Rifles there are also many like the 30.06 is 7.62x53. The Mosin Nagant rilfe shoots the 7.62x54R. There are a lot and I could go on. lol. I really appreciate you asking me and welcome you to ask whatever, whenever. Thanks again buddy. : )
Thank you sir for specifying on this. I recently invested in a Spanish Mauser 1916 7.62x51. I know it’s not a ceteme but there’s a lot of the same specs going around. My plan is to reload.
I'm new to the AR10, and have been researching the round. The Lyman 49th edition reloading manual lists the 7.62x51 NATO and the 308 win on the same page. In the text it does mention that the NATO brass is thicker and has less volume. As a re loader I prefer the thicker brass because it is more durable and can be reloaded more than commercial brass. The only downfall is the primer pocket crimp must be removed to install a new primer. Their are several tools available to perform this, however most involve removing material from the brass. I did not like the idea of removing material and found the RCBS super swage reform the primer pocket thereby retaining the integrity of the brass. This only has to be done on the first reload and only on NATO brass, however I feel it doesn't hurt to perform this step on the first reload of every round as primer pocket uniformity makes for easier primer installation. The "RU-vid" community has a name for people like that, they are called "TROLLS" and should be ignored or blocked if you prefer
To me RU-vid is among the best things ever to learn and be entertained. I also think it shows the AMAZING stupidity and rudeness of so many people. Just amazing, so take many deep breaths and learn to ignore them. You can't fix stupid. Good video, thank you Sir.
@ChromeFreak123 The BRASS is different (smaller internal dimensions, heavier brass), but that is only a problem when reloading. The problem with .308 Win and 7.62 NATO is the chamber in the rifle. The 7.62 x 51 chamber is longer than the .308 Win chamber. This presents a problem when .308 is fired in 7.62 chambered rifles due to the lighter brass. It weakens the brass and could cause a case head separation. 7.62 fired in .308 chamber is fine.
I know this is an old thread ! I am with you brother ! the rounds are identical except for the case thickness ! the actual difference that i saw demonstrated was about 2000 psi ANY 308 can shoot the 762 x 51 nato with no issue! , the biggest difference is in headspace in a "military" rifle is about .013 more . . The miltiary brass will stretch that with no issue! They are not recommending shooting the 308 win. in a 762 x 51 as the case can fail and damage the rifle! Also psi and cup , as you state clearly , cannot be compared , but apparently head space is the main factor , as commercial brass is weaker ! I've got a DPMS lr308 and did a lot of research on it as I wanted to shoot the ZQ ammo it is really excellent ! so you are right in every way ! Great response ! Keep it up !
Its the same round. The only way you would need to worry is if they are reloads. In that case, if it is de-milled brass, they can easily be over loaded because the brass in mil. spec. is thicker, therefore, internally its a smaller area. The outside dimensions are the same exact size. Factory .308 and factory 7.62x51 are the same round. Thanks.
some thing to remember is 7.62 is normally a .30 caliber slug and any cartridge that has .30? has a .30 caliber slug! some times it is shape difference, but either way it is 7.62 mm wide or 0.30 inches. so if the case is the same length and width then it shouldn't matter, something else to note is it only takes 0.001 inches to have a rattly slug in the barrel! so this is interesting to somebody who thinks they may know how their cartridge is named.
