7mm Showdown | Part 5 | 7 PRC Load Development | Results & Rifle Specs | Little Crow Gunworks 

Amen.

A 10lb rifle in a magnum with all the goodies is not heavy. Very well put, bud!

Thanks Mark!

That's still in handloading territory. Even with reduced velocity. If it's shooting that well, the 100fps loss doesn't matter as much.

Hey Jack, Hornady should hire you for gun shows. 1.3 at 400 with factory ammo. What am I doing wrong loading and testing? Plus the time watching these videos, learning and copious note taking. My wife better not find out! Lol

@@KB-ld6ql like I said. One group, one time, with only 3 shots.

I appreciate the honesty. Never say never. You might stumble over to the dark side at some point.

Thanks Justin!

Wow, thank you! I appreciate the support. It is a lot of work, but I know we're helping people. That certainly helps keep things going.

Thank you for the consistent support. Helps keep this thing going.

Thanks Jeremy. Thanks for the feedback!

Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for the support Terry.

Thanks for the support Ryan. The internet is so frustrating. I have basically stopped contributing/removed myself from all the gun groups. Not worth the time.

Thanks Philip!

Awesome, thanks. I'm glad it's helping you!

Hey alright! That's another one in the "It's helping me" column.

Thank you for that, we try!

Thanks for the continued support Robert!

Thank you for the support. I don't expect everyone to COMPLETELY agree with me, no worries. I shoot right and left handed at Prairie Dogs. But if I want peak precision, I shoot right handed.

Im left eye dominant and right handed and my dad started me shooting a rifle and bow left handed when i was a kid. I'm glad he did .​@LittleCrowGunworks

Thank you for that Mark. I developed this method, out of frustration with the common methods out there. I was always frustrated with the process and the results. I spent SO MUCH time and resources BEFORE I developed this process. I use to spend 100 to 300 rounds on load development. To get 10% better than what I get now in 10 to 50 rounds. I appreciate your support.

Welcome aboard Logan.

Thank you, sir! I hope they appreciate it too.

Thanks for the support.

Hey Steve, thank you for that! We appreciate the support and honest feedback. Steve ships most of our orders and fields most of the phone calls. He's a great guy and valuable part of the team. I don't shoot the sweet spots as groups. I shoot "Round Robin" style with a chamber chiller in the barrel for 90 to 120 seconds between shots. That way, EVERY variable is evenly distributed across the test, and no specific load gets special treatment. Barrel heat, heat soak, mirage, shooter fatigue, weather conditions, etc is ALL evenly distributed across the groups. For example: the 7828 group of three shots that made that .174" group; were shots 18, 23 & 34 for the day on that 7 PRC. If you test Round Robin, and it STILL shoots small, then you know you're on to something.

Wow. Excellent information about the round Robin style shooting. I would have never thought to test like that. I've wondered how much impact changing weather/sun/wind/barrel conditions have made on my groups and not had a good way to account for that. I like this idea a lot. Thanks again for sharing!

No problem Steve, good luck!

Right on. You get it Jack...

I won't be surprised if you get the 175gr to 3000. But that isn't the most important metric for this job. 1.Range 2. Wind 3. Reliable point of impact 4. Group anywhere under 1" 5. Velocity 6. ES

@@LittleCrowGunworks Even if I can maintain 2950 that's fine with me. By contrast, I'm getting 3300fps in one of my 280AIs with a 139 LRX, 24" Bartlein and Defiance action. I'd have to calculate numbers but at 500 yards, what, if any, real world difference would a cow elk know if it was hit accurately by that v a 175ELDX at 2950.

You will have more inches of penetration, more danger space and less recoil with the 139 LRX. But also less energy on arrival and more wind drift. Hit probabilities will be very similar within reasonable ranges.

Good stuff Derek. Sounds like you have a keeper. You won't find a rifle builder that LIKES pre-fits. Yep, groups will always vary.

@@LittleCrowGunworks I'm looking at Carbon 6 barrels. Any experience with those? If I recall correctly they re McGowan blanks.

That's an unbelievable price for that ammo. It's $60 for 20 rounds at the stores near me.

@@Andrew-jm4tp gun broker auction. The seller must have had a palate of the stuff. Once the first few cases sold at higher bids I guess most people that wanted it stopped bidding

Thanks Ed! I'm glad you like it. Apparently, we have similar taste. If you get to the point where you want something built, let us know. We'll take care of you.

I shoot both hands for Prairie Dogs. But when shooting for peak precision, I always shoot right-handed. I shoot much better.

We may test those 170's at some point. Looks good to me too.

@@LittleCrowGunworksdid I miss somewhere the increments you go up on your charge weights for initial 10 shot load development

@wyattlavallee8078 in .4gr increments for cartridges this size. That allows us to go from approximately 54k psi to 65k psi in only 10 shots. You should use Gordons to determine the step size for your cartridge. I would never test below 52k and going over 65k, youre just hemorrhaging brass AND barrel life. It's a very crude test, but it covers the pressure range you SHOULD stay within for optimal performance and brass life. I would call anything over 64k "The ragged edge."

@@LittleCrowGunworks good to know run mac so no access to grt I’ve been doing round robin ocws and had pretty good luck so far but this would be easier

Yes a factory Savage barrel and ANY custom barrel have almost nothing in common. Savage barrels have so many tooling marks in them that they take much longer to settle down. Every Savage barrel I own, I shot a full box of "Tubb Final Finish" bullets down it before I even put a scope on the gun. They shoot great after the Final Finish Bullets.

@@LittleCrowGunworks this is great to know. Yeah I believe these barrels are chambered by proof. If the rifle has issues and is sent back then savage does the chamber. This has been my experience with the ultralite. But it shoots lights out now. Consistent 2” groups at 300 yards. Our range is in the deep woods so less affected by wind.

Sounds like you have a winner!

Thank you for the support. I'm happy this is resonating with/helping so many people. No, we're under .050" jump. Not saying more jump won't work. Dale found a load in the 28 Nosler that was jumping .125"

Thanks for the reply. I just finished the 7 Mag video. It was a great one also. I was curious about your jump with the CX. I’ve shot a lot of TTSX’s, GMX, and E Tips and I’ve always started .050” off the lands. I was just wondering if there was any validity to the recommendation of .050”. Thanks

Nah not really. I think bullet seating is a way to manipulate pressure and barrel timing. Nothing more. I don't think bullets "like" any particular jump. What I said about the 7 Mag and the jump. What's underneath my comment is that the velocity range I'm operating in and the jump I'm using, may not be an optimal match. I could likely jump less OR more and this thing will come to life.

To each their own. I'm sure it works great.

You're not alone Daniel. Probably 80% or better of published load data isn't burning 100%.

I have the Lil Chub, and it's surprisingly effective for a little stubby.

I've seen their brakes. Haven't tested any though.

So far, just seeing clickers on stuff that's near peak pressure. I'll let you guys know if I start getting clickers all the time.

I don't want to tell ya how to suck eggs, but that load is way overpressure.

@@LittleCrowGunworks not in my guns and that was at 100 degrees weather. I’ll find out what my wife’s mule deer and cousin’s cow elk say about the pressure they get from these loads lol

@@ArpexOfficial how many grains of 565 is that? I experienced the same type of velocity with my 300 PRC and 212 grain ELDX. The pressure signs are very minimal and if I back it off a grain I’m still well over 3000 with no pressure signs. it’s confusing to be honest. I hear the book numbers are conservative and then you’ll hear some people say velocity is a sign of pressure while others say look for pressure on your casings and rifle action. It’s all very confusing.

@@edstettin6799 with 70 gr on the two Seekins PH2’s and 68.8 gr on a Ruger American for 3060 fps on that one.

I didn't cover it. Use the Hornady Lock-N-Load tools and modified cases. Those tools give you "Touch". Start .020" shorter than that. No need to go closer. If you end up doing a seating depth test later. You should seat deeper in the case, which will reduce pressure; until the powder is heavily compressed. Then the pressure will skyrocket as you seat deeper and deeper (More heavily compressed). It's a U shaped curve. With Touch at one end and heavily compressed at the other end. But as you get closer than .020", pressure rises very quickly.

Right, I did hear that as well. I'm assuming what I shot was the original lot from the first release.

@@LittleCrowGunworks But they should change the box velocity to provide accurate consumer information.

@wildnorthadventures They shouldn't be turned off... I'll look into it. Thanks for the heads up. Glad you like the series!

@@LittleCrowGunworks I had a feeling it wasn’t you guys that shut them off. You don’t strike me as the kind of guy with soft feelings. lol.

So... half of the videos, the comments were turned off. Which I didn't do. Clearly, as all the videos have comments on them. Which would mean that I would have had to gone into half of the videos one by one and turn the comments off. Which I didn't even know how to do, until I figured it out just now. Which means YT is trying to throttle our channel down.

Doesn't matter. They all shoot. The 5R is easier to clean and easier on lead core bullet jackets. But the 6 groove offers more bite on monolithic bullets. But in general, they both shoot.

Good question. For the 7 PRC, with N565 we needed to be at 59k PSI before 100% of the powder burns. That's a little high. We probably could have tried it. Also at peak pressure, we would have been pretty compressed. But the max velocity would have gone up by maybe 100fps. N570 is WAY too bulky and slow burning for that size case. To get to 65k PSI, you're at 107% fill ratio, which you can't actually fit that much in the case. And even if you could, only 97.2% of the powder burns...that's a complete no go. It's too slow.

You hit the nail square Matthew. Many people take pride in professing how their cartridge and bullet setup is achieving some unrealistic velocity. The truth is they are WAY overpressure and horrendous brass life. You are correct, it is way more logical to select a bigger cartridge and run it mild with a single base powder if peak precision is your goal. Thanks for your support.

@@LittleCrowGunworks glad to hear I am understanding things correctly. I recently picked up a 28 nosler over a 7prc as I was hoping to run it at moderate pressures with a stable powder and get better accuracy and brass life than a souped up 7rem. I am new to this and still learning which is why I appreciate your videos. I live in Duluth Mn but if i ever get down south Id like check out the shop.

We'd like to see you if you are ever in the area. N170 is your best bet. Thank you for the support.

Thanks Austin!

“Real world numbers” 😉

My PH 175gr. ELD-X ammo lot averaged "only" 2910fps out of my 22" proof barrel, but shot 1/2" averaged over 60 rounds, and took a 7x7 bull elk at long range. Speed isn't everything. You need to develop confidence in knowing where your bullet is going to hit.

Having less velocity isn't the end of the world, but fix the number on the box at least...

Oh boy. I'm not too crazy about mom-and-pop monos. Too many bad experiences.

Aren't all the Mosin's like that? Gotta use corroded old surplus ammo though...

@@LittleCrowGunworks but all that time wasted on pesky load development can be put to cleaning the gun. See it all evens out.🤣

Hornady should publish the lot numbers with reduced velocity. They obviously know this information. Keeping us customers guessing is what makes me angry. I can forgive the powder shortage, but I can't forgive the bait and switch.

LOL, with the abundance of time I have? Andrew is right. They should publish it on their website. If you have time, I can give you the lot numbers we have and you can sit on hold? I'm trying to make videos for you guys, not waste my time on Hornady's internal issues.

@@LittleCrowGunworks i’m not saying they shouldn’t advertise it on their site. What I am saying…and what you seem to be tap dancing around is the fact that you talk and spread gossip or rumors when you could’ve put in the time and ask them. If you don’t know for a fact and can verify it from the people who have that correct information your video that you work so hard on has invalid points and becomes essentially worthless.

Benchrest is a different game. I EXPECT you guys to stay under 1/4" all day at 100yds. But you're relative POI, ES, energy and terminal performance is irrelevant. You don't have ANY restrictions, compared to hunting rifle load development. Group size is your ONLY concern. That's quite a luxury.

Say what now? LOL