“Severe turbulence causes large and abrupt changes in altitude and/or attitude and, usually, large variations in indicated airspeed. The airplane may momentarily be out of control. Occupants of the airplane will be forced violently against their seat belts.” -seen not in this video it was
40+yrs flying and over 25k hrs, I agree. Also, to identify to ATC of type other than PA-28 shows lack of nomenclature. Lastly, "drifting into class B"?? Turn the nose to the west if that is the case! No excuses..or just declare a damn emergency if your in over your head.
I am really get some bad feeling in 150 with 15-30 knots gust. And sometimes it may open door or window(school airplane from 1967). And first thing I am looking is speed and attitude rate. I don`t see anything here. Sometimes it`s bumby (what I call on this video).
The instructor is being overly dramatic. It’s not severe turbulence for a start. They picked up some rotor activity from the hills. No worse than that. Severe turbulence is an instantaneous climb of 2500 ft followed by descent of 1500ft pm in a heavy jet, being unable to read the instruments. In 20 years of flying light twin, turboprop, medium jet and heavy jet I’ve experienced severe turbulence twice. This wouldn’t be even close to severe.
With all that flying experience, you should know that light, moderate and severe classification of turbulence is dependent on the reporting aircraft. That is why it is mandatory to provide aircraft type when reporting turbulence during a PIREP. Not saying that this was 80kts as I don’t know what that’d be like in a small GA aircraft but it was definitely moderate to severe turb. for their aircraft type. Your comment is incorrect, and disappointingly so, if your flying experience is true.
@@shreedhar333 I would say after 27k hrs of flying experience that was not severe turb. I didn't see in your video any periods where effective control of the aircraft is impossible.
@@plainsailing5987 again, depends on the aircraft type. I would not want to be above Vno in those conditions in a 172. I'd call that pretty mod-serve but each his own I suppose.
Ken, you are totally correct. This wasn't even close to severe turbulence, and probably not even moderate. No way at all were they having 80kt gusts. I too flew for 42 years in all sizes of planes and encountered severe turbulence only once or twice at the most. Even moderate turbulence is not frequent if you look at the correct definition of it in the AIM.
I only hit severe turbulence once as a pilot. My head hit the ceiling, aileron went full deflection but it was still not enough. Running out of control inputs is scary, do not recommend.
Similar to my one experience solo in a PC12 NG it threw all of my stuff (iPad,drink, pens, crumbs from lunch) to the back of the airplane. The lav bucket ended up upside down and dripping blue juice through the lav closet door, I hit my head and gained an lost 1000 feet in less than 20 seconds. I actually let the control inputs stop and went for the ride. 1 minute later it was over, but man that was a looooong minute
This right here. Was probably 70% or more of ailerons and she kept on rolling the other direction. My instructor told me when it happens again to stomp the rudder too. Things seemed to be about 40-50kts at 4000-5000 feet in asheville nc. Glad I had a taste of it. No desire to repeat often.
As a highly experienced Warrior Pilot and owner with Single Engine Land, Instrument, and much aerobatic training in the Dechathalons, I can tell you that in "severe" turbulence it would not be possible to make a radio call. The aircraft can be gaining or losing 500 feet of altitude in less than two seconds, pitch variations can be as extreme as completely being pitched verticle to completely pitched towards the ground. The stall warning horn is almost constantly on. The plane will of course keep flying if you keep your cool and continue to aviate. From what I watched in this RU-vid was "moderate" turbulence at best. I have been flying the coast of California from San Diego to San Fransico for over 30 years as well as the desert out to all points in Arizona. That wasn't even close to "severe".
I've experienced nearly instant full deflection of the VSI up then followed by equally quick full deflection of the VSI down while in "level" flight. I happened to be talking with ATC at the time and could not come close to carrying on a conversation. It was a thorough ass-kicking beating. What is on this video is barely moderate.
I’ve been in severe turbulence and it was nothing like this; I couldn’t read the instruments, the aircraft was doing horrible noises and went to 50 degrees bank. Quite scary and it was on a 777-200 over the Atlantic.
Yeah I had the same but in a much smaller single engine aircraft, instruments unreadable and it felt like the hand of god was giving me a slap every couple of seconds, controls light and unresponsive, all fun and games
Severe turbulence is defined as a momentary loss of control. When we airline pilots hear small aircraft report severe we take it with a grain of salt because of inaccurate reporting. On the other hand when we hear large planes report it, we avoid other area. Although the turbulence can be disturbing and create control challenges, be cautious about the accuracy of your reporting because it compromises safety in that it diminishes expectations and potentially leads to complacency. I also own and operate a Cessna 421 and have a background in light airplanes. Happy trails and blue skies to all!
what was the basis for the 80kt gust report? There are quite a few errors and inconsistencies in this video, but the comments have called most of them out already. Some additions, though for those who are learning to fly: FlightWatch just wanted to hear "P28A" as the aircraft type. "Piper Cherokee Warrior II, white with blue trim..." is just a waste of breathable air. While FlightWatch isn't around anymore, Flight Service certainly is, so the guidance still applies. Your color matters for search and rescue, NOT for a pirep. If it's blowing hard and you're that close to the hills, you're going to get a rough ride, it's not a surprise. Airmet Tango was a good clue, along with the winds aloft. Lastly, telling ATC to tell other people not to fly there is presumptuous. Just let them know about the rough ride. And yes, severe turbulence (one level below Extreme) would have you routinely smashing your head on the roof, struggling to talk on the radio and routinely applying MASSIVE control inputs to maintain anything resembling level flight. I see a few corrective inputs for roll at the start, but other than that it's mostly yawing moment caused by the gusts or shear.
if you're resting your hand against the sill im pretty sure we're looking at moderate turbulence. no doubt it's scary for an intermediate/novice pilot but severe turbulence has your body prepared for some pretty drastic and chaotic bouncing around. not to be a dick, but i wouldnt want this guy to fly me.
I flew through a moderate AIRMET tango in a 172. Videos always make it look a lot more calm. This was maybe moderate but definitely not severe. Severe turbulence in a light training aircraft would basically mean you have lost all positive aircraft control.
Not "severe" per aviation standards. Perhaps severe enough to cancel a day of practice maneuvers over Point Dume (which is what they were likely planning to do).
I have never landed with 80knots gusts, but normally where I fly I am very close to the sea, and the strong winds make the landing very turbulent, especially when the wind is crossed. Excellent video.
FYI: it's important to understand what information to give to whom. FSS is a dude sitting in a control room covering a vast area. He doesn't know landmarks, and a PIREP should be passed with position (based off NAVAIDs/Airports, not visual points), altitude, temperature (if icing related), and aircraft type. Aircraft type would be like PA28/G for a cherokee with GPS as an example. For a PIREP he doesn't care about your color or trim or really much else. He wants to know where you are, what kind of airplane you're in, and what you're experiencing.
137 other comments said the same thing, but this is not severe. I'm willing to imagine that the number of pilots who encounter severe turbulence in a warrior, and the number of pilots who have encountered structural failure in a warrior, both make a circle on a venn diagram.
I am a low time yahoo GA pilot with ~3K hours and over 2,800 landings all over the country including Hawaii. I watched the entire video twice, and I didn't see anything that qualifies as "severe turbulence"....and I doubt "moderate turbulence." You don't know what "severe turbulence" is.
Asked an airline captain once what his definition of severe turbulence was and he replied, "when the aircraft is shaking so bad that we can't read the instruments on the panel!". This looks gusty but not out-of-control even for a moment so not severe.
He still had time to talk and still be able to fly while chatting so looks like a fine day to me. Gotta try flying in South Island of New Zealand on a strong Westerly-wind day, on the Eastern side of the Southern Alps to see what does moderate turbulence feel like. Worst turbulence I have ever encountered in my life is in IMC and no control authority at all.
This doesn't meet the criteria for moderate turbulence, let alone severe. That was mild turbulence. Also, when ATC requests a/c type, just reply P28A, they don't need POB and aircraft colour like you're going down...
with a report suggesting potentially severe turbulence ATC would want to gather as much info about the plane as possible in case it is genuinely severe i.e. loss of control which can have dire consequences. The onus is on the pilot to report conditions accurately to ATC & suggesting that the pilot should withhold information they have caused the controller to prompt for is ridiculous.
@@Eva-cs5le The controller didn't prompt for POB or aircraft colour. It's important to read back only what is asked so as not to block the frequency. My point is that the pilot shouldn't have been reporting severe turb in the first place - it's not an accurate depiction of the situation shown here.
Also I'm disappointed that everyone is paying attention to the turbulence thing. Dude said 80 knot Xwind..... that's what I'd be criticizing the most. That's WAY beyond the limitation of a piper warrior.
I've been in moderate to severe in the Rockies. I would not have been able to communicate over coms that clear (or at all), head hit the ceiling several times, passenger threw up, and it was like wrestling an alligator. Maintaining VA was another challenge in itself with the updrafts and downdrafts.
If he’s calling this moderate to “severe” turbulence he’s got a real education when he actually runs into the real thing. Not even close to 80 knot gusts….
This is not severe turbulence or near it. It is is continuous light to occasional "MODERATE". He would not be making this report with any confidence, he would be descending and the aircraft would be near out of control. It amazes me when I see these videos. You will tremble in a severe turbulence encounter since, there is hardly aircraft control.
I agree with you 100%. Impossible to make a radio call in Severe. Listening to SoCal Approach, I don't think he was convinced either but was doing what he must do in logging it. I guess the only good that could come from this inaccurate video is inexperienced FI and Students will stay clear of turbulence they are not equipped by aircraft, experience, or both to be flying in.
this is a joke, right? this looks like it was gusting 30-35 at the most. That instructor is a clown. 80 kts my ass, too bad RU-vid removed the dislike button count.
One can see the “white horses” on the ocean below, that’s windy down there, one can imagine just how windy it is at height plus there’s the air currents moving between the mountains and the sea. Gusts of 80 kts perhaps not but definitely unpleasant flying conditions
80 kts? I would be consulting the wind charts of this plane. I would not have flown if this was given on the weather report. Know the wind envelopes, and wca's as well as the maximum crosswind componant to not damage wing structure integrity for future flights, no stress cracks from this.
I'm a controller not a pilot while I have talked with pilots before and just from seeing wind effects on turns on a radar scope. 80knots is around a cat 2 hurricane or F1 tornado. You could not keep that thing on course at all. I've seen what 30 does to a twin otter with max passengers. It is dangerous for you to give false reports like that.
1:37 When he says tell everyone DO NOT come over here, for some reason I keep picturing ACE Ventura telling the party guests DO NOT go in the bathroom.
“We are getting pushed into bravo” what kind of pilot allows themself to bust airspace like that. Get control of the plane. Aviate, navigate, communicate.
I love how everyone who wasn’t in the plane with him, are trying to say that it wasn’t severe…how do you know? You weren’t in the plane. Dude said he was getting pushed into the bravo, which clearly indicates a strong updraft.
Because, when you've been in moderate/severe turbulence in a small plane, you know that your voice does not come over the radio that clear and consistent, even in mild turbulence. He may have been in a strong updraft, that's different. Imagine a small toy plane, now grab it by the fuselage and abruptly twist it left about 45 degrees, and then abruptly twist right. Those are some of the forces you will feel and can do nothing about in severe turbulence. You're fighting the controls with the yoke, and the throttle to prevent overspeed and stalling, you don't have time to mess with the PTT for a PIREP.
when i went flying with a instructor it was almost as bad as this and he gave me the controls for the whole flight, it was sorta scary but wasn’t cause i knew nothing bad would happen and it was in a warrior as well. that man must have trusted me like crazy
@@LowWingFlyer yeah but everything was good and he was probably the best person i’ve flown with and said i was probably one of the better people he’s flown with
@@flymeaway1216 That’s a good comment from an instructor for sure and a big confidence booster. I was just implying that it is the instructors job to put you in that situation for your experience while they are there to assist in case you get overloaded. Awesome you got the chance to experience it.
Were it that severe, you wouldn't even be able to talk, just trying to maintain the earth down and the sky up would demand the best from your ability. Once as a lone pilot in a 152 I took such a beating, I thought the aircraft would rip apart and I was going to die. I banged my head several times and was scared shitless. This was in clean air. I remember seriously considering continuing flying or not after that day...
Had some moderate turbulence in a 172 years ago coming in to Fullerton. 30 straight minutes or bouncing around. Ugh ... was so happy to be on the ground.
@@GrumpyTinashe If you are ever flying in mountainous terrain and start to experience what you think is moderate to severe, turn the plane around and do it now! In California, the west side of our coastal mountains are littered with destroyed airplanes from folks continuing into turbulence they could avoid. We have special conditions here with our Santa Anna winds blowing offshore (to name one) and crossing the mountains from east to west can get you into downdrafts on the west side (windward) side of the mountains you will not have the climb rate to overcome. If your wings are parallel to the mountain ridge and you start to think: "this could be getting into moderate/severe", turn around and go land somewhere safe. Do not continue West (in California).
Wow, thanks for sharing this! I was drawn in by the title and first three seconds of jostling when I heard the location and the tail number - THIS IS THE SAME BIRD I DID MY IFR TRAINING IN, AND USED TO RENT OFTEN FROM STUART AT SMO! Wow, those hours with Skyward over Pt. Dume - really takes me back... Rarely though did we ever have updrafts that strong. I hope the frame was checked really well after that one!
I'm not monetized so i don't really care if you clickity clicked on it or not. There were tangos and pireps and later confirmed by the instructor. How would I know the speed of the gusts in a piper warrior and as a student?
@@basic411 The way you would know it was 80 knots is you would be doing almost 200knots with that kind of wind at your tail or 30 knots if you were flying into it. As a cross wind you would be crabbing 45 to 60 degrees. You can easily tell when you are that low, the 80 knots wind was likely in the flight levels up above you.
@@basic411 If it momentarily stopped flying and your control surfaces do/did nothing, that was about 60knots. You may have also noticed your chin was on your chest or your head was hitting the roof. But, the plane will keep flying if you just keep aviating when you have control surfaces that are doing something.
Camera never does turbulent conditions justice. That’s never fun, especially when your head hits the ceiling of the plane. I always think the plane will fall apart in the sky when this happens. I just stay calm, thank God I land safely and then grab a stiff drink.
It's easy to throw stones from the cheap seats but as someone who flies a PA28R I gotta comment: 1) That wasn't severe turbulence. By the control inputs you were putting in, the aircraft's orientation relative to the horizon and the altimeter, it looked like light to moderate chop with some updrafts. It can be uncomfortable, sure, but that wasn't severe. 2) "Drifting into the bravo" and telling SMO tower about that (instead of approach) is very... not good. That's not a clearance into the bravo. You should have changed heading to remain outside or pulled power and descended to remain outside. 3) Radio etiquette needs some work (I see this was from 6y ago so no doubt the guys are much more proficient on the radio). And while you can include remarks in your PIREP... announcing "no one come over here" is a bit melodramatic for those conditions. Maybe not the best day for full throttle cruise at that altitude, but not remotely hazardous to flight either.
I think this turbulence is definitely not severe. I have a clip somewhere where I encountered severe turbulence with a PA28, it was almost impossible to control the aircraft. Completly different stuff, I will try to load it up within the next 2 weeks. This in your clip would be rather very light turbulence to a slightly bumpy flight. Haha but its a old video guess you are more experienced now.
Thanks for sharing. But is 80 knots gusts a typo? I have a hard imaging that kind of weather in Southern California, let alone landing a Cherokee under those conditions.
80kts? doesn't look like you're flying fast enough for that. 80kt gusts would stall and un-stall your plane. you should be experiencing severe losses in altitude. I've been in nothing close to that (80kt), and lost 200ft in seconds in what i have experienced, going up and down so frequently and violently you'd hit your head on teh roof at times. I've flown in worse than what this shows in a Piper Warrior, and it wasn't 80kt gusts.
you call THAT moderate to severe turbulence?? and that is not near 80 kts...you should come down here to Patagonia and learn what real turbulence and winds are...
