8mm Mauser vs. 7.9mm IS vs. 7.92x57JS 

I made some mistakes in this video I need to address. 1. 7.65 Mauser is not a x57 round. It is x53 2. I said “bottleneck” a few times to refer to round-nose bullets. “Bottleneck” actually refers to the case lowering in diameter near where it reaches the bullet. I believe I meant to say “bottlenose” which, while it is not overly common, is a term I’ve heard used to refer to early roundnose rounds like the 7.9I. 3. I also neglected to state that the old round nose bullets and the later spitzer bullets had a different diameter. This is a difference between those two rounds, but I did not feel the need to state it in the video as this video’s topic was specific to naming designations. Thank you for watching and for your patience as I continue to learn and grow.

Thank you for taking the time to help inform and clear up all the various designation’s . One thing that I’ve learned is that when the Germans developed the 7.92 s (154-155 Light ball ) and the 7,92sS (198)heavy ball is that they didn’t want to much information known about these rounds. It was SAMMI that designated this cartridge 8MM Mauser and they keep the pressure of American made ammunition low because of the weak 1888 rifles .

The JS bore is .323 and the J bore is .318 in diameter. The 88 Commission was not built by Mauser, they didn't even consult him and they built it with a .318 diameter bore. Do not shoot .323 bullets in an 88 Commission Rifle. Mauser started building rifles for the German State in 1898 in the .318 bore. In 1905 Mauser came out with the spitzer bullet 154 grain and increased the diameter to .323. That is the reason not to shoot the JS bore cartridges in the J bore 88 commission rifles. I shoot round nose bullets in my .323 JS bore rifles all the time , no problem. I do not own an 88 Commission rifle. If I did I would have to find some .318 diameter bullets if the rifle has never been converted.

Some proper terminology: the 8x57 Mauser round headspaces off of the SHOULDER, not the neck. The neck is the narrow diameter part that grips the bullet, located above the tapered shoulder. Also the original 8x57 cartridge adopted for the 1888 Commission Rifle used a ROUND-NOSED bullet, not a "bottlenecked" bullet.

The old German “Fraktur” typeface (created about 1500), there was no graphical distinction between letters “I” an “J”. Both were represented by the same graphic. It was originally well known that both letters were different. “I” was called “I vowel” by the experts and “J” was called “I consonant”. This knowledge was forgotten by ordinary users. Although professional printers knew very well that the Roman typeface indeed had different graphics for “I” and “J”, this often got lost in use by ordinary people. So, it became a habit to use the “J” for an “I” even in Roman typefaces (and typewriters). For example, the 7.9 mm primer 88 as generally adopted became officially primer 88 (J) to indicate that it originated by the Bavarian fireworks laboratory at Ingolstadt. Sometimes you can find “Jngolstadt” in old documents. Now to the cartridge: Because a cartridge 8 x 57 already existed (today known as 8x57R/360 of British origin) the German 7.9 mm infantry cartridge had to have a different name when standardization (“Normalisierung”) of commercial cartridge cases started. “M88/8” was chosen by the industry. (Don’t ask me why they did not choose 7.9x57; I have absolutely no clue.) After WW1 was lost, a military designation was unwanted and the first postwar RWS catalog calls the cartridge “8J” to indicate it is the commercial equivalent of the German infantry cartridge. While the industry already agreed upon the use of “J” (for infantry) in 1926, it took until the new proof law of 1939 to make it legally binding in Germany. The law for the first time in Germany prescribed cartridge designation, minimum bore dimensions and maximum pressure.

I = Infanterie (Military round) J = Jagd (Hunting round) S = Stark (Stronger, or more powerful round) IS = Infanterie Stark (a military round with higher power than the original old Patrone 88 from 1888) JS = Jagd Stark (a hunting round with higher power than the original old Patrone 88 from 1888) Never put IS or JS ammo in a rifle designated with only the letter I or J after the caliber mark. The 8x57mm JS bullets may be slightly larger at around 8.22mm or .323 in diameter than the 7.9x57 mm I or even the IS military rounds which may vary from 7.9 mm to 8.07 mm. The grooves are often higher on the newer rifle barrels, the I barrels are often at around 7.8 mm (lands at 8.07 mm) while the newer IS may be from 7.9 mm with lands up to 8.2 mm. I shoot Norma Vulcan 8x57mm JS hollow points, they are not Spitzer rounds. You might want to change your explanation about the S letter. I hope this helps.

WoW thank yo very much for the detailed information. Got out my Czechoslovakia Mauser with war-era ammunition. Ammo fired without any problems for years and years that I had this gun, but then just a couple months ago some rounds would fire and some would not. So was on the hunt for more ammo. No 8mm rounds being sold anywhere in the eastern Ohio area for at least the past couple years, and so have to go order on the online jungle where some people call the 8mm this or call it that, and so again was VERY NICE getting so much information from you so I can feel more confident that I am purchasing the right ammo since any of the ammo is non-returnable

The 7.65 Mauser (the "Belgian" Mauser) cartridge case length is NOT 57 mm long, it is shorter at 53.6 mm. It is usually written as 7.65x53 as a result, although sometimes the length gets rounded up and it gets called 7.65x54.

It’s pretty much people getting the JS and JRS mixed up at the store that keeps that rimmed ancient cartridge going.

What you said about the “ IS “and “ JS “ is correct . Germany used Fraktur Letters , which to us look very close to Old English Letters and the German Fraktur “I “ resembles the “J “ very very close indeed . So it would be easy , not knowing the slight difference to mix them up

I started relaoding 8MM Mauser about a year ago. Gotta say reloading teaches you differences between these cartridges really quickly. For example, I was looking for a lighter projectile in .323 diameter to make my M24/47 flatter shooting. I found some .323 diameter 123 GR projectiles on Graf & Sons. For reference, my normal ammo is a 197 Gr FMJ BT bullet. Didn't realize till the projectiles got to me they were for 8MM Kurz and left too much gap between the neck of the cartridge and the rifling to be of any use and would have created a massive spike in pressure if used (least as far as I have read)

A couple of tidbits I would like to add; Paul Mauser did not design the Gewehr 98. The German war commission did, using the Mannlicher design as a basis. Only the bolt action design used for the Gewehr 98 was Mauser's, patented on 9 September 1895. Peter Paul von Mauser is also credited with designed the 7.65×53mm Mauser (1889) and 7×57mm Mauser (1892) rifle cartridges. But NOT the 7.9 German (7.92x57mm), often wrongly publicized and referred to as the "8mm Mauser" round. He actually disproved of the 7.9 German round, as he felt his 7.65×53mm Mauser round was better. The 7.9 German round was developed by the Army Weapons Office, Office for Development and Testing (Heeres-Waffenamt, Amtsgruppe für Entwicklung und Prüfung). So, to drive this point home, Paul Mauser had nothing to do with the Commission 88 cartridges (.318 diameter), nor the 7.9 German ”S” Ball (.323 diameter) cartridge. The development was done secretly by the German government utilizing a commission and government facility (Spandau). So, why does SAAMI refer to the 7.9 German (7.92x57mm) cartridge as “8mm Mauser”. Well, that is open for discussion, but my thoughts are that when GI’s were bringing home their war trophies, they would try to buy ammo for them here in the US and have a hard time asking for what they needed. They would ask for “8mm Mauser “ammo, and the storekeeper would say “What”, as at that time all boxes were marked with the correct 7.9 German designation for the “S” or “s.S.” Ball weights and also” 8x57 I bore” for the 88 Commission unaltered rifles. So, this discontent trickles back to the manufactures and you readily see labeling changes over the years. I could picture you many of the US maker box label changes if I had the knowledge of how to post them here. Anyways, so here we are today calling the round “8mm Mauser” either “I’ or “IS” bore. Why did the GI’s call the rifle’s Mauser, well because none of the rifles had a maker's name on them except for some of the Mauser made rifles that were used by German troops, had MAUSER stamped on the receivers. No other NAME I am aware of was ever stamped on K98k’s generally used in WWII in the European theatre. GI’s referred to MP40’s as “Schmeiser’s”. Schmeiser was never stamped on the guns as Schmeiser had nothing to do with the MP40 design or manufacture. However, he did make magazines and held the patent to the magazine it used. So, the name “Schmeiser” was sometimes on a few of the mags. So, the GI’s called the MP40 the “Schmeiser”. This is how all this gets convoluted over time. Don’t get me started on the hijacking of Mauser’s 7.65 Mauser round being called Argentine. That is another story of a US importer importing guns and ammo from South America and the importer calling the rifles “7.65 Argentine Mausers” and selling the 7.65 Mauser ammo as “7.65 Argentine”.

Thanks. I just got my first WW2 era Mauser and I was looking everywhere for ammo. When I finally found some, I saw 8mm Mauser soft points, and then 8x57js Sellier and Bellot soft point rounds. I was quite confused. I knew the 7,9 marking on my K98K indicated it fired 8mm Mauser but was woefully ignorant on ammunition in generally in comparison to my firearm knowledge. I readi n the comments that the bullet diameter on one is .323 and the other is generally .318. Now without giving "legal advice" or whatever lol, could a K98k manufactured in 1939 fire either of those projectiles and be fine? Judging by the video I'm going to say yes but just double checking to not ruin a piece of history lol. Great vid btw I subbed.

I have an unfortunately purchased box of jrs floating around somewhere. This would have been helpful back then lol.

Great info. I really appreciate the flow and speed of your articulation.

You generally have good videos but you need to do more research on mauser ammo, there is a difference in early ammo in.318mm and later ammo.323

7.92x57mm IS (Infanterie Spitzer)

Please keep the message and mission coming....!! EXCELLENT Video.....!!!!

Hi sir can u make video on 8*60mm I want to know difference between 8*57mm and 8*60mm please

Thank you Mauserman!

I would like you to make this video series on 7.62 x 54 rimmed. There’s so many different types, from light ball to Bulgarian heavy ball, to East German to Chinese to Sniper rounds

There is turkish/ottoman 8mm mauser available if you want to test it from thecastlearms. They say its from 1920's and cheapest 8mm available

There is a big difference between 8 x 57 J a 8 x 57 JS at least in Europe. Suffix J has older 1888 round with a diameter of 8,09 mm. Newer JS, from 1905, S means Stark - Strong has diameter of 8,22 mm. Same brass, but different bullet. If you fire old J bullet in new JS gun, preassure is low as is accuracy. In opposite case, you can jam or explode gun barrel. At least that's what they told me in hunting lessons. But US export packaging should have different labeling and meaning.

Do not use American ammo in 8 ×57 IS. It is under loaded. Get your ammo from Europe. 8x57 IS is better than 30-06. The Kurtz is the Grand Daddy of the 7.62x39 AK47. The AK not being a 7.62 (.308) but a .311...same as British. 303.

Great explanation

I got a rifle marked 8mm ( Ovedo 1903) but the 8mm surplus is a tad to long and it won’t load in the magazine, any ideas ?

🇦🇺😎👍Happy Sunday Brother Big Bad John

Hi there and i must say , your video was very helpful and easy to understand to a person like me who truing to make a gun at home . I have a question if you could help me with !?! I have 7.92×57 and right beside that number it says 22 ( wich you didn't talk about it here . My question is , What size barrel to fit that bullet suze in ut . I mean , how many mm ? Because i think if it us going to be , exactly same dize as billet , then the bullet wouldn't have any room to move inside the barrel ?!? Many thanks . 🌹🌹🌹

you said that 7mm and 7.65 mm were not terms used in the military. If not, how did the military refer to them since they were indeed military rounds.

Hey man just watched this video. Are you familiar with any Spanish Mausers ? I ask becouse I have one and love it .

7.65x57? I’ve heard of 7.65x53mm (.32 Argentine), but not x57. Ah… there’s a fix by the author. Good!

I have a german mauser rifle 8×60 and I am using 8×57 cartridges. Which cartridge should I use 8×57 or 8×60?

Is there no pressure differences between the rounds either? Is everything just surplus ammo or are there factories still producing it?

iS and JS is absolut same.

I have a 1902 Gwer 98. what ammo should I use? I read where I should use the JR which is .318

Is it safe to shoot modern commercial loads and surplus military FMJ 8mm in a MAUSER SPORTER 8X57 .318 BORE 23” BARREL? Thanks in advance

the "J" stands for Jaeger (HUNTER) pronounced with a "Y" as in yeager, G=Gewar (RIFLE) "S" -Schutzian' during the Boer war history records a British Officer under a White Flag asking the Boers to please stop potting off the Officers and please change their ammunition as it "WAS NOT CRICKET "causing such terrible wounds and bad for the mens moral,.my family name is DeBeer on granns side.

js, stands for jagd schos

I see why Dr.Richtofen chose you.

Just assume 7.92 mm is the full power one

i think they made the whole process too complicated

8mm ammo in the US is really weak. Only buy European ammo, such as S&B.

I'm considering purchasing and reloading for a 98 pattern Mauser rifle in 7x57 Mauser. However, there's two options when it comes to reloading dies. 8x57 and 7x57. Is there going to be any difference? I'd rather opt for 7x57. @8mmmauserman