PPU actually has ammo labeled « 8mm Mauser » which is the anemic stuff, and boxes labaled « 8x57IS » which is hotter, says my gunsmith when I was wondering about the difference.
the problem is that the these are just marketed as 8mm Mauser in the US! Over here in germany they have diferent names. we have the 8x57I , 8x57IR , 8x57IS and 8x57IRS. 8x57I and IR are the old versions of it and are not meant to be interchangeable with either of the other 8x57 versions! they are diferent calibers! The R versions are for rimmed cartridges in a double rifle for example!
I'm actually looking for factory 8x57I spec ammo here in the States. There's a drilling in my local shop I'm planning to buy(says W.Weisgerber St Wendel as the make, 16 gauge SXS with a rifle barrel marked 7.8x57) I'm assuming 7.8 is the older 8x57I as I've been researching the round lately.
@@servicerifle16 exactly! the „I“ bullets are 0.1mm smaller than the S versions wich are 7.92 Since it is a drilling i suppose you need the 8x57 IR round! At least i have never heard that a drilling was chambered in a rimless cartridge. As far as i know Sellier&Bellot still makes soft point 8x57IR! maybe you can find some in the states!
@@WestfaelischerJung I unfortunately do not know if it's rimless or not. I would assume so being a drilling. I've only seen 8x57IRS or IRS but no IR. Might have to load my own. At least it being rimmed would keep me from cross-contaminating with my 8x57IS for my Gew98.
The Gew88 isn't really a Mannlicher rifle. Most of the design work was done by a man named Schlegelmilch who basically refined the Mauser 1871 without Paul Mausers input. The German rifle commission decided to use the Mannlicher magazine without permission and ended up giving production rights of the Gew88 to Steyr- Mannlicher who together with Otto Schonauer refined it into the Romanian 1893 and Greek 1903 rifles. TL;DR the only thing Mannlicher about the Gew88 is the magazine.
Thank you for confirming that S&B still makes the full power 8x57 ammo... FYI: Hornady may come in as a close second with almost full power loads. Shall we say a Moderate load at 2400 to 2500 FPS with 195 or 196 grain bullets... >>>As stated: Federal 8x57 is very anemic 170 grain ... Federal 8x57 is Basically a 30-30 load in an 8mm case. Remington is also very anemic.
It does not exist any caliber called 8x57 it does exist a caliber called 8x57I, I for infanterie and one called 8x57IS is stands for infanterie spits . The 8x57I where developed with a round nose and the 8x57IS developed with a pointed bullet and a slightly bigger caliber.
Enjoyed your video. As a Mauser guy, I worked up loads using 150 grain bullet. I have a K 98 that someone sported years ago. I bought it at a good price had a checked out put a Nikon scope on it, bought a new stock and bedded the stock. It’s an extremely accurate weapon. And 150 grain bullet by Hornaday works extremely well. Again thank you for your video. As a Mauser guy I really appreciated your insights.
I would like to add, in Germany there ist in use 8x57 IS and 8x57 JS. IS means Infanterie Spitz and JS stand fort Jagd Spitz what means translated Hunting Spitz.
@@grollbringer you're right, I use the K98 for almost 30 years now for hunting (Germany). We always say "IS", but on all my cartridge cases and ammunition boxes (GECO, Norma, RWS...) there is written "JS"
@@grollbringer Nope it stands for Infanterie sSitzer. The Infanterie Spitzer was in use long before the 8X57 became a "hunting" round., around 1904. Sounds like someone is trying to make the misinformed "J' nomenclature legitimate.
A funny thing is that the measure 7,92 still sticks like a glue even though there has been nothing in an 8x57IS bullet that is 7,92mm for 113 years.. Most people who don't know any better think it's a .30 cal round or something.. This pudloading of commercial ammo is the same with all old Mauser calibers.. A very definitive phenomena is the popularity of 6,5 creedmore.. It's like they invented the 6,5 Swedish Mauser again after 125 years and brought it to the table as a "new" hit shit.. :D For decades here in Europe we've had 6,5x55 loads with over 300fps more muzzle velocity with the same bullet weight than in the US.. Same goes with the 8x57IS.. With a proper powder charge and a heavy bullet one can easily load an 8mm into a freight train..
I always took gewehr to mean firearm. We spoke German at home. I understood flinte as rifle. I have only owned one K98 and shot it extensively when I lived in Montana. I started to reload for it and had satisfactory results using Sierra 150, 175, and 220. The 175 grain with IMR 4320 were outstanding.
rudolf yakich The german word flinte is actually the equivalent to shotgun, or sometimes musket. as long as a gun is a is ment to be fired from the shoulder and has a smooth barrel, its a Flinte
I stop having any problems after I learned to roll my own. I prefer to use round nose bullet for maximum expansion on game. Open sights up to 200m is no problem.
My grandpa got his 8mm mauser in WWII and he said that the German mil spec ammo was 154 grain and hit about 2880 fps. I haven't found any way to verify if that's accurate or not, but he was never wrong about anything else so he was probably right about it. I agree that the sellier & bellot is great and although massively overpriced the hornady vintage match is good too (not as high velocity as the S&B oddly enough). Great video, I've thought for 25+ years that 8mm mauser is the most underrated cartridge out there.
Thank you for making this! I wish this video was around when I first got my M48A. I had gotten a bunch of PPU ammo for cheap and could not figure out why the thing kept shooting low. It wasn't until much later that someone had told me about how anemic most 8mm is loaded.
It is the Saami specs vs CIP specs that makes the whole difference in pressure level and performance. Rws, SB , PPU, Nprma, Geco is some very good euro 8x57 amko to try,theymare all Cip loded.
Hi Mr rifle chair. A while ago I was watching another one of your videos and you were saying how that you needed to buy some new steel targets. If you go to garage sales you can find steel weights. People getting rid of their work out benches and weights. I was throwing out the garbage at work and right in the bin someone had thrown out half a dozen varying weights.I took them home and now I've got free steel targets
•My experience is that if the box says "8x57mm Mauser", it is anemic. The Germans have never called it the 8x57mm Mauser. If the box says "7,92x57mm IS, ...JS, ...IsS, ...etc"., it should be the real deal. The American ammo is anemic so that .323" bullets can, in fact, be fired in .318" barrels without causing undue overpressure. A look at the SAAMI drawing for the 8x57mm Mauser shows an unusually long tapered throat of ⅞" length which would draw the bullet diameter down .005" before engaging the rifling if fired in a .318" barrel. •I have draw dies for changing the diameters of jacketed bullets; .323" to .321" or .318", .358" to .355" or .348", .410" to .406", .412" to .408", .458" to .454" or .452". These I can do with ease in a 50 year old RCBS Rockchucker press. •I have a Marlin Model 1893 rifle in .32 Winchester Special that has a .318" barrel that shoots factory ammo with .321" bullets all day long with no ill effects.
Almost bought a drilling 16x16 over 8 mm but wasn’t sure about which ammo it took cause the pawnshop had it listed as one thing but by zooming in on the barrel markings, I was able to determine what it was. Ended up not buying it but regretting it now
Sellier & Bellot ammo is the way to go with K98!!! My poor Dad missed so many deer and had no clue as to why he fed his Mauser with Winchester 170 gr. and it barely clears the barrel!!!
I want to point out gew 88s if they have an s on the receiver they have been rebarreled for the Spitzer cartridge and have a larger bore dynamiter but I would still slug the barrel to be safe
Late to your party but I have a mauser that I never shot much because I never could locate much brass BUT shooting the PPU 175 into a hole at 50 with 4064. I’m intrigued now and must get a chrony to work up loads. I never thought my mauser had accuracy left in her but apparently I was dead wrong.
nice quick educational video. RC I love how you know how to reload as to get the right combination to get the best accuracy. and I hate that some of these rounds they make them as you say anaemic. not same rifle but I love the 62 grain for the ar15 vs the 55 grain.
Hornady makes a full power load that you can buy. Its called the Hornady custom grade ammo. It is super accurate and not too expensive. Sellier and Bellot is probably the most inexpensive and pretty accurate and full power. They did have a problem with the jacket peeling away from the lead and the bullets would disintegrate and caused all kinds of penetration problems. I learned of this the hard way hunting in Africa with my K98. Good thing I had two types of ammo with me. But for sure the S&B is very good target ammo. Norma also carries a full power load for the 8x57JS but way expensive.
I would add that for anyone that has an older military 8mm rifle the safest way to know for sure the bore size of your rifle is to slug it! Really isn’t a difficult process it basically is lubing a lead slug that is approximately .005 larger than your bore and tapping it through the bore thus forming the slug to the exact diameter of your bore There are several videos on line if you are so inclined Thanks to all!
8mm06 {or the Ackley Improved 8mm06} has more room for powder. And you might get a small amount of velocity increase at same pressure levels. And you can use the commonly available 30-06 brass. Hornady does make 8mm06 Ackley Improved ammo "for a price".
Just like with most rifles, I think its important to try a variety of ammo with each rifle and then feed it what it likes. My K98 shoots the Wolf 196gr FMJ ammo the best, but my M48 loves some 170gr SP handloads i've worked up.
@@tedhodge4830 definitely wakes you up and understand the potential of the calibre. I run a 196gr hornady SP behind a stiff charge of IMR-4064 and that load transforms these rifles. Suddenly the sights are calibrated correctly and I connect reliably at distance.
Gewehr does not mean rifle in german... Its a word that covers long guns... Also including shotguns... The word for rifle is büchse, shotgun is flinte and pistol is pistole ;)
@@SWEmanque well part of the problem is strumgewehr which someone translated to the term assault rifle. Which causes people to think sturmgeweht translates directly to stormrifle rather than something more akin to storm long gun.
My gewehr 1888 has trouble feeding anything made post ww2. Ww2 german ammo chambers fine, but turk 70s surplus wont let the bolt close. After endless checking, i found the mouth of the case on old ammo is nearly flat against the bullet, its pressed or chamfered into a little ramp. The postwar stuff has a flat rim around the case mouth, and it snags on a rim inside the barrels throat. My barrels are all czech 1930s marked 7.91, so the gun isnt the problem as i dont have the .318 bore, its .323. Its definitely the ammo. Just a hairs breadth causes a jam. If your 88 has this problem, thats it, not the gun, but indifferent quality ammo.
PPU does have a 198 Gr FMJ-BT load that is rated @ 2427 FPS & 2590 FPE, it labeled 8x57 IS. The PPU load that you fired is rated @2181 FPS & 2091 FPE. Now if PPU imports the 8x57 IS load into the US, I have not seen any yet. Your right the Winchester, Federal, Remington 170 Gr loads @ 2360 FPS doesn't do the 7.92 loading any justus.
Too true, RC. For the post 1905 rifles, I stick to my stash of surplus. For the Gew 88/05, I handload. Some people get the idea that if an 88 has the "S" mark on the barrel or receiver, that it has been upgraded with the .323 bore. This is not the case. My 88/05 is so marked, and slugs out at .320". I run Hornaday .32 Special bullets in distinct loads for it with good results, but would never try to make a grenade out of it by using surplus or full load 8X57 ammo.
The S mark just means the chamber has been reamed out to accept the new bullet.Basically so reserve units could use the same ammo. Or better yet some old guy with a book explains it. So while technically you could shoot the full power load I wouldn't do it either. But people aren't wrong to think that. But one of the best gun safety rules still applies always check your gun first then make a informed decision after. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fTTrGD1e7wU.html
The only decent American made 8x57 ammo is Hornady match and international. 195-196gr bullet @ 2450-2500 chronograhed through my chrony f1. Accuracy is decent, nothing special. Like RC mentioned SB is the best buy for your money. A true 2550-2600 fps with excellent accuracy. Canada ammo has Russian captured surplus but its running for over 1$ a shot.
Here I come again. You must excuse because I am trying to explain a subject without nowing the exact correct words in English. As whe all now's a rifle barrel has grows . In the bottom of these grows the original 8x57I the caliber was 8 mm in 1905 the 857i where modernize to .8x57IS using a lighter pointed bullet and slightly bigger cali ber 8.2 mm. All the existing military rifles were regrowed for the new caliber. So it does not exist any originally military weapons in 8x57I. Civiviltion weapeans were still made until about 1925 in the old caliber . Why 8x57 is called 7,92x57 in the US is quite hard to understand but it is possible because that the caliber on the top of the grows is 7,92 mm but that is a incorrect way to measure a caliber. Regards Lars Dahlén
I've had some good luck with Hornady Vintage 8mm Mauser, but beyond that I agreed the domestically produced ammo for 8x57 is pretty bad. PPU has a major issue with under powering bullets and I think they do this to keep costs down. Every PPU caliber from 7.62x51, 7.62x39, 8mm Mauser and 5.56x45 are weakly loaded. Now, when you comapre these new bullets to the older PPU surplus bullets are the market in bioth 8mm and 7.62x39 , you will find that they are pushing a much higher velocity. So, one is left with the thought that this isn't about lawsuits this is about cost cutting.
Federal 8mm 170 grain has a listed velocity of 2250 fps...My handloads in my M-48 with 170 grain are averaging 2760 fps and it's not a max loading. 150 grain are only 100 fps slower than my 1903a3 30-06
@@brandonlorance8584 actually it's a k43 made by walther in.1944 all matching except the magazine, dark bore but very accurate I actually shot German WW2 ammo worked perfectly first shot I ever took with it was in the 10 ring at 100 yds prone position
I want to point out gew 88s if they have an s on the receiver they have been rebarreled for the Spitzer cartridge and have a larger bore dynamiter but I would still slug the barrel to be safe
I really want to get another Mauser. I'm split between theCzech VZ-24 and the FR8 Spanish Mauser. The VZ-24's seem more collectible, but a lot of them are in old, in bad shape and aren't matching. The FR8's seem to be in better shape with better wood and more bluing since they're newer guns, plus most I've seen have been all matching. Decisions, man. Decisions.
Here is the thing. Go with what is affordable and turns you on. I suggest you might have more fun with the FR8 because I want one too. I've owned a 98 CORUNA Spanish Military Mauser and it wasn't high quality and neither will the FR8 however for fun factor and available ammo - the FR8 hands down. Plus a VZ.24 with an excellent bore never happens anymore. All RC capture rifles have horrible bores (almost). I highly recommend a refurbed Yugoslavian K98k or the M48A, or BO models if you want to go 8X57.
@@Riflechair I currently have an M48 that's in great shape. Only thing is that is has a really stout trigger, and I'm not sure why. There may be cosmoline still in the mechanism, but I'm a little afraid to try a home trigger job, and I don't think it's worth shelling out the money for a gun smith.
The boxes on the picture of PPU are like 20 year old and even the one on the video is the old version. Maybe you should try the new one with the cleared blue color i had correct result with it. Tbh i just buy them because they are almost the same price here in France as the new brass. You can easely reload PPU cases 10, 15 even 20 times if you just do the collet resize. S&B as you said are a pain in the arse to reload and dont like it at all
RC, I recently purchased a beautiful customized Turkish mauser in 8x57 at a gun show here in Pasadena, Texas. I have a box of PPU Rifle Line ammo in 196gr. When a round is chambered full closure of the bolt is not easy but is a little heavy to do. Upon examining the cases, I find very light indents on the shoulder. I have not fired a round yet but I would welcome your input on this situation. Regards.
You mean to say that the bolt is stiff as you engage the forward bolt lugs with a round in the chamber? A few things to consider are your experiences with other ammo types, how far forward the shoulder is located, when was the last time you took a brush to the chamber? Do you have any residue build up? How about corrosion in the chamber? Is this a M88 or 98 Mauser WW1 with a .318" bore or a conversion with a .323" bore? If you shoot that 196gr .323" bullet in a rifle with a .318" bore it will not end well at all. When in doubt bring the rifle to a qualified person to assess the rifle - especially a Turkish Mauser.
Yeah, it definately sucks for guys like you running large ring mausers. Makes me happy with my converted gewehr 88 that has a .323 bore but a dainty receiver.
Interesting. I just ordered a case of the CanadaAmmo stuff which apparently is loaded quite hot so we’ll have to see how that does. I’d like to test out some Yugo surplus too.
I know I’m way late to this video but by any chance are you talking about the German surplus 8mm Mauser ammo with the corrosive primera swapped for modern ones? I’ve seen it on sale at Canada ammo and Tenda. I bought some for my m48 but I’ve been having issues with it.
I've got a box of Hornady 195gr SP 8x57js and a box of S&B of the 195gr spce 8x57js. I have yet to shoot either, but am fixing to see which one holds better groups in my m48. I have shot some m75 1992 production and wasn't impressed with grouping at at (video on my channel! ). I am going to be choosing 1 of the 2 rounds to hunt mule dear this year. Which do you believe will shoot better & is the better round? Thanks.
Use European ammo. Norma is very good hunting ammo and RWS is also good. After all is it an European cartridge and it is very common to use during moose-hunt in Sweden.
As allways" with this channel "viewer comments are much more entertaining and informative. I guess the queen will not allow any 2liters to be harmed in Canada's paper shooters Paradise.
Hodgdon "Ball C-2" or "BL-C(2)" www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle is a proven performer in 8x57 JS Mauser. for upt to 180 grain bullets.. IF you want all the speed that 8x57 can give you without excessive pressures .... consider that one ... or possibly some of the VIHTaivouri powders "which are not common in USA" www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/8-x-57-is--8-mm-mauser-.html
good topic, what powder do you like to hand load .8mm apox. 200 gr. bullets then ???? IMR 4895, 4064, Varget, Rel.-15 have all worked for me ???? thanks :)
Thank You, I have Imr 4064, Imr 4895, Imr 3031, Varget, Rel.15 rifle powder's on hand. I've been seeing 4064 in many of my reloading books too. i will try it out for 100-200yd. target work start low and work up. Imr 4895 has been pretty good so far but we all like to get the best out of our ole' milsurps. lol. Also, Ive been using "Ed Harris loads" with great results, really good results 13grs. Red Dot and 16grs. Alliant 2400 for mild target work. thank you for your time :)
He's not saying that. He's saying if you want full power don't be shooting it that being said the 200 GR match that PPU makes my M24/47 seems to shoot POA/POI. It all comes down to are you doing something to where you need Full Power ammo I.E the S&B ammo is great if your hunting but if your just at the range plinking PPU and any of these loads will work fine. When it comes to sighting in though use the full power load. If you can find it the Yugo Surplus M75 ammo is awesome though.
Fayt Albel The only downside of surplus ammo is the fact that the gun powder is corrosive. You've got to clean your bore right away or the rifling will start to corrode.
If you want good performing loads for 8 mm Mauser you'll have to reload them,I had a guy I knew who had an old German commission rifle in like new shape ,the one with the .318 bore diameter he would fire regular 8 mm Mauser 321 diameter bullets in it ,that is why the factory loaded the 8 mm to such low preasures I couldn't convince him that his rifle had the smaller bore ,after all he'd never heard of it so it couldn't be true !I worked with this guy for four years I must admit he was one hell of a worker maybe that's why I ended up being his friend we went on several hunting trip together for bear and deer ,but he was the dumbest guy when it came to guns ,he simply didn't understand and you couldn't tell him because his chariture make up was that he knew everything about everything period !I took some money off him over a bet that his 220 swift wouldn't shoot as flat as my 300 weather by over 600 yds he was at least 3 feet low over the 545 yd range we shot at he thought his swift didn't drop at all because he heard the term flat shooting used to describe the 220 s ability to out due the outher varmint rounds ,he thought it didn't drop at all ,just shot like a beem of light ! His old 1888 comision rifle even with low powered factory J's loads showed signs of very highpreasures flat primers mainly I told him to just keep it as a collectable because of it's rare like new condition ,.Nice guy but stubborn ,he's dead now lung cancer killed him he never smoked but he did have a hobby of painting cars with all kinds of paint including emron ,use a resporator hell that's for sissies all you need is one of these paper filters you put on to sand with ,well rest in piece brother I do miss you!
I want to point out gew 88s if they have an s on the receiver they have been rebarreled for the Spitzer cartridge and have a larger bore dynamiter but I would still slug the barrel to be safe
A deer won't know the difference so long as your sights are calibrated to the low pressure factory ammo. You may have also found yourself some factory ammo that was tailored to spec velocity
I know this video is a little old. Just gotta m48a. Shot Hornady, ppu, sellior,and some surplus Romanian. I've seen a lot of videos trashing ppu. Maybe ppu has changed, but ran it all through a Chrono. Ppu shot and grouped the best. Pretty much with all my firearms.
