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A better way to run D&D 

The First Arcadian
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Hopefully, most of you probably won't need this advice, but I prefer to sin by excess than by falling short, and new DMs also dedicated videos about DMing basics.
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13 окт 2023

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Комментарии : 26   
@johnandrewbellner
@johnandrewbellner 9 месяцев назад
I can’t agree with this video more than I already do. Not only is it less work for the DM to give the players more control over the game, but it is way more enjoyable too. Great video.
@johannesnulk4587
@johannesnulk4587 9 месяцев назад
It's something of a clumsy analogy, but I think for me, the fun of being a DM is somewhat like that of an author reading a genuinely good fanfiction/sequel written by another writer. I feel the recognition and pride of this being the world I created with love, but also the thrill of seeing new characters and new twists and turns that I can only guess at.
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
I actually liked your analogy a lot :p
@stephencoles3664
@stephencoles3664 9 месяцев назад
I resonate with this. I've found a lot of fun setting up the lore and backstory of my game and seeing how my players subvert my expectations. I've taken a few times to take an interim while I plan the unexpected turn the party took. Heck, last session the party went to the underdark for mushrooms to keep a cursed player sedated while they look for a cure. I had no idea they were even going to get cursed in the first place, so all the stuff I had thought they would do is up in the air or pointless to work out. To add on to this, a grand puzzle or mystery to unfold and challenges along the way are the narrative structure I think about when planning the game, because it keeps me from solving the problems for the party while forcing me to think about the why which can be used to roleplay a what, or how in the moment. Well-designed combat encountets are still something I have trouble with and I also still add in things in the moment I wasn't planning on which has caused some issues, but that'll get better with experience.
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
Yeah, you got it :D The only thing more unexpected than the Spanish Inquisition are the players' decisions, and you can't really plan preemptively, only reactively. I think it was Colvill who once said something like "the DM is not there to solve the players' problems, they're there to solve the players' solutions"
@te1381
@te1381 9 месяцев назад
I'm a storyteller DM, I write the outline from start to finish then let my players navigate that outline to fill in the gaps however they want. I feel like it's better to say that the DM and the players are the storytellers, we write and it and change it as we go. If you are not creating an overall story for your players to follow, they can become lost or bored or chaotic, which may not be bad. I guess I just want to say that being a storyteller is fine, forcing your players into an act or result can be bad.
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
I agree, and I hope my terminology didn't constrict the message I wanted to convey too much. Ultimately, I think it's ok to plot an outline and see what happens as long as you don't get too fixated on certain plot beats, that aligns well with my DMings style as well. Most problems arise when the players want to derive from that plot, and the DM actively fights against that under the assumption "their plot" is better and more enjoyable than the one the players want. The freedom to fill in the gaps you mentioned is vital. Maybe a better summary of the video would be something like "you're not telling a story to the players, you're telling a story with the players"
@x-rayactual4770
@x-rayactual4770 9 месяцев назад
Exactly how I run my games. I create problems, half the time I don't even have a possible solution in mind, and see what the players come up with. If it makes sense to me it will work
@michaelbranstetter8860
@michaelbranstetter8860 9 месяцев назад
The first 30 seconds you described me
@kostasmanousakis1081
@kostasmanousakis1081 9 месяцев назад
Amazing!
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
Thank you :D
@krempelritter9950
@krempelritter9950 9 месяцев назад
Great video and a lot of good points! Just like Drudenfusz I'm mostly wih you. What you describe is my preffered style of play. I would like to point out that promises and payoffs are a central element of the telling and enjoying of stories though. I've startet Lost Mine of Phandelver recently and I told my players about the lost mine in the prologue, the implicit promise being them dicovering said mine. My Curse of Strahd group got to know about that vampirelord early on, the implicit promise being them fighting him in the end. This doesn't determine neither the outcome nor the way to get there, but it gives the players some sort of goal or direction from the get go. Of course I'm just as exited as them to see if they will get to do that and to experience whatever happens along the way. Especially new players usualy need to have an impression of what they should strive to accomplish, otherwise they might feel a little lost. Many campaigns (just like LMoP and CoS) are a bit more on the railroady side of things in the beginning and after a while lead the players to certain points from where they can choose their own path more and more. The players get more and more agency along the way and learn to make use of it. Also I've had players at my table who didn't enjoy too much player agency, at least not for them personally. They gladly would support other player's choices, but they feared moments when they stood in the spotlight and had to make a choice that would heavily influence the rest of the campaign. Those were new players and at first I expected their approach to change over time, but even after several years of one ongoing campaign some players didn't want to decide to much. At my table those players have always been a minority (if present at all), but with a table full of such players a DM would need to give more direction for the whole group to enjoy the game. For a new DM without a lot of experience as a player your approach might be hard to grasp. In almost every other medium stories come without the potential of different outcomes. What you suggest is not exactly hard to do, but it is somewhat hard to imagine without rpg experience. Most new DMs will feel they have to provide a clear way and structure to the story. Those DMs really should relax a bit, watch this video and then buckle themselves for the joyride their about to participate in. I'm happy I've found your channel!
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
Glad to have you on board! You also have a lot of good points. I'm sorry if I'm recommending something you already watched, but I made a video quite a while ago, where I talk about a similar principle. I'd love to know your thoughts on it :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Arz-awYMuCY.html
@krempelritter9950
@krempelritter9950 9 месяцев назад
@@TheFirstArcadianDnD Don't ever be sorry for pointing me to such great a video ;) Ist's a shame that after more than a year I was only the 2nd person to write a comment below that one. I really hope one day you'll get all the audience you deserve! Greetings to Portugal!
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
Thank you so much :) It's kinda disappointing that one never really picked up, but I hope one day it eventually gets discovered. The internet never forgets, after all :p
@Drudenfusz
@Drudenfusz 9 месяцев назад
I am with you, that I also do not plan plots, but I think you are wrong in regards that people do not like to know the outcome of a story. You even mention a film you watched multiple times, and many people are like that, that they consume a piece of media over and over again while already knowing how it will end. And I think that there are also plenty o players in the RPG hobby who also want to be sure their character has an arc or that their character will at least prevail and maybe even triumph at the end. And I think that is why people buy and run modules, since those come with the implicit promise to deliver a narrative that will satisfy player needs.
@initiativeplaytherapy88
@initiativeplaytherapy88 9 месяцев назад
I agree with the first part. You can't write a game the way you write a movie or a book. However, I disagree with the notion that you shouldn't plan your game. It's fine if you want to do that, but not everyone can think that fast on their feet. If you are writing your own adventures, you have to write them more like a Choose Your Own Adventure book. Tere's the plot. There's a choice. If they do X, this happens. If they do Y, that happens. The one big difference is what do you do if they choose Z and Z wasn't something you anticipated when you were writing. Then you improv. However, it's a lot easier to improv when you have something written down.
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
Damn, these comments are making me get the feeling I really butchered my English with this video. I'm sorry, that was not what I wanted to convey at all. Of course it's ok to plot plans for your game, at least at a higher level. My issue is when people script the solution for the plot, and then expect players to solve it in that specific way, which more often than not is a recipe for disaster. To contextualize, it's ok to plot that your players will need to retrieve several dragon masks from the cult of the dragon, which they're trying to use to summon the final boss Tiamat, who will be as strong in the final battle the more dragon masks her cult manage to retrieve. It only becomes bad when you force your players to "lose" every single one to the bad guys, only so that they can fight Tiamat at her full strength because you believe it will make it more rewarding, or something. Honestly sorry I wasn't more clear, hope this managed to clear the misunderstanding :p
@initiativeplaytherapy88
@initiativeplaytherapy88 9 месяцев назад
@@TheFirstArcadianDnD - Oh okay. So you're talking about what I call the Gollum Dilemma. It works for Tolkien to have Gollum follow the party and destroy the Ring, because he has full control over all of the characters. However, it's quite possible the players will try to kill Gollum (or Gandalf). Then what happens to the Ring? I always assume that if my players are going to encounter an evil NPC, there's a chance they will kill that NPC. Doesn't matter how powerful the NPCs are. Doesn't matter how stealthy or deceptive they are. I go in assuming I'm going to roll all 1s and the PCs are going to roll nothing but 20s, so I have to have a backup plan.
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
That's an interesting way to put it, I might steal it :p But yes, the key message is not getting married to any particular outcome. Following a preconceived plan, but allowing the players enough freedom to diverge from it, or even oppose it
@A_Surpluss_of_Stupidity
@A_Surpluss_of_Stupidity 9 месяцев назад
I mean the only reason I enjoy dming is because I get to tell a story now of course my campaign is very freedom focused they can do whatever they want in the world I've created (my campaign is framed like an open world video game)
@tntori5079
@tntori5079 9 месяцев назад
I'm 4 min in and you still have not fully made your point. Up to 3:12 you just repeated the same point over and over. The advice is okay, though I wish it could have been presented a bit better. I HUGELY disagree with one comment (albeit a small part of the video) where you imply that not being a player first means you can't be a good DM. *That* particular line I would consider poor advice and I've seen other creators say the same so I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. Either way, still good job on the video. =) I can only judge so much as I'm not a content creator.
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
Thank you for the feedback. I did not meant that at all, sorry if it came across that way (sometimes my english fails me). I think DMs who start running before having the chance to play may bring some storytelling habits from other mediums that don't translate well in D&D (the same way it happened to me when I started to write novels after being a comic book author for so long; I spent an unnecessary amount of time describing the action sequences blow by blow, for example) but I don't believe that dooms them as DMs from the get go, just that they may take a while to fully grasp everything. That's actually what happened to me, I was a DM first and a player only afterwards :)
@azilastorelle6822
@azilastorelle6822 9 месяцев назад
With respect, you seem to be making some pretty inaccurate assumptions about things like Critical Role, while appearing to navigate away from critically important nuance. To approach this subject, it would be useful to introduce the concept of "play styles": dodging around this and presenting the game as if there is "one true way" to play it (which this video does, whether it meant to or not) is problematic, click-baity, and wholly inaccurate to the realities of table-top gaming. Every group, every table, has its own "style of play", and its own unique set of things ("experiences") it hopes to get out of the game, together, and hopefully in accordance with agreed upon dynamics with their group. Content creators pushing "a better way to [x]" without establishing the impossibly high degrees of variance and nuance found at each table GROSSLY and irresponsibly misrepresents the reality of gaming, which is an especially egregious offense given the influx of (as the video itself says) *new players*. There's no "better" or "right" way to play: there are ways that work for a given group, and ways that don't. A highly skilled and competent DM will be able to adapt and move between several playstyles with several groups, games, genres, or settings; but there's nothing wrong with being good enough at one thing, if that one thing is what your specific table is looking for. In terms of the misconceptions about Critical Role: there's VERY little railroading going on at that table. Mercer, for as over-acted and performance-oriented his style is, 100% allows the player choices to direct the course of a story's progression. The "big bad" of Campaign 2 didn't even exist, couldn't even have existed, outside of the choices of a player and a guest: it was something which had not been written or conceived beforehand, and couldn't have been, for reasons that become VERY evident to anyone actually familiar with that story. Railroading in games IS something that can be problematic for some players, for some tables, for some groups: but this video doesn't properly define what railroading is, or provide a single accurate example of it. Railroading (as seen in early Dragonlance modules from the mid-1980s, which redefined what roleplaying game modules and campaigns "could be" by introducing concepts of narrative cohesion, plot, and continuity beyond "the endless dungeon crawl" of "murder hobo" adventurers) is a narrative approach to story structure which sidelines player autonomy/agency, reducing the stakes and value of player choices, in favor of rigid conformation to a pre-existing plot or storyline. (There are virtually no examples of this from any of the Critical Role campaigns-- not even the guest-DM'd "Calamity" mini-series, which for very obvious reasons DID have some fairly important (because prequel) "known storyline outcomes", but still managed to avoid ANY railroading pitfalls and maximized player agency like a masterclass in doing so.) Railroading, for the average player and table who isn't operating at a professional level, is simply when a DM favors pre-determined plot paths MORE than the choices (and freedoms) of the players engaging with that story, such that those player's actions and decisions have less impact on the story (and its world) than would otherwise be ideal. Examples from the early Dragonlance modules include times where players could kill certain antagonists, only to have those antagonists revive (unexplainably) later, simply because they were "still needed for the story": the consequences of player actions had VERY little impact on the world, and thus, the stakes and investment were narratively railroaded. At the time, this was still groundbreaking (because it introduced the concept of stories and plotting narratives to TTRPGs, just 10 years into the game's history, when most products otherwise were one-off "weekend dungeon crawls" operated with an assumption of 1:1 real-time dynamic in-universe, meaning that they were basically proto-MMORPGS with respawning dungeons as the expected norm, rather than static worlds in which characters intimately affected their surroundings, and were affected by them.) Railroading is fine for casual gamers, though. Some folks just really want escapist play, decent die rolling, fun spell effects, whiskey shots and junk food with their friends, and a story they get to tune into and out of once or twice a month. That's a playstyle. It is only a problem when people at the table DO NOT WANT THAT, and the DM can't adapt (or understand how to hear what they're after). Critical Role, both the main campaigns and the side-quests/mini-series are the OPPOSITE of railroading--- so this video using those as examples of railroading is going to be VERY confusing to people who aren't familiar with the term, or the concept. Mercer doesn't have heavy-handed story plots that the players are all expected (demanded, forced) to comply with: their choices are intimately connected to the consequence and causality not only of the story (and the whole world those stories are set in), but on the next chapters of storytelling-- complete with encounters which were planned and painstakingly statted and built as battle-maps being abandoned, because the players made different choices. This is literally *the absolute opposite* of railroading. The opposite railroading is "sandbox storytelling" in which the players get to explore, make choices with high levels of freedom from plot-constraints, and respond/react to story elements only if/when they feel like it: at any point they could say "forget this, peace out, let's go steal a boat and become pirates" even if that has NOTHING to do with present story direction. If giving cautionary advice to newer DMs (and their players) about Critical Role and expectations therein, a reliable approach would be simple: communicate with your gaming group to determine what everyone's playstyles and expectations are, and do so in a way (unlike this video) which doesn't seek to shame/disparage approaches or desires at the table which aren't in alignment. Not every playstyle works at every table, and there IS such a thing as "the right player at the wrong table", or "the right DM in the wrong genre", and so on: selecting the right game (and group) for one's gaming desires and needs is the same as joining the right group for ANY activity. Whether playing a sportsball game in the park with friends, or assembling wild full-contact amorous dalliances with stolen trampolines and too much hard liquor, or putting together a group to take road-trip with, it is important to make sure everyone involved is aware of (and given the chance to voice) the shared and collective aims, goals, directives. The worst sportsball games in the world are the ones where half the group wants to be hardcore competitive and aggressively seek points, while the other half is looking to dick around, laugh, and get wasted at the beach. Playstyles exist in sportsball, and they exist in group amorous trampoline acrobatics, as in roadtrip groups, and TTRPGS: *communicate* with your group. Critical Role works so well not because they're all professional actors (that doesn't hurt) or because they have a production budget (that doesn't hurt either) or millions of fans (that actually might hurt things), but rather, it works so well because the group of friends playing the game together have communicated with one another about their expectations, their desires, what they each want to get out of a given campaign or character, and they hold consummate trust with one another that those things will be attended to honorably (between the players, and with the DM), that their agreements and boundaries will be heard and respected. That's it. Respect and communication. That's the advice. Railroading? Oh, honey, no. They're a sandbox game that just happens to have really mature and respectful players involved, who've been gaming together long enough to know what works and what doesn't for their group game cohesion. This is the opposite of railroading---- but, so are most of the examples given in this video.
@TheFirstArcadianDnD
@TheFirstArcadianDnD 9 месяцев назад
Oh, sorry, I think I may have conveyed my thoughts incorrectly. I don't believe for one second that CR is railroaded, quite the fact actually. What I was trying to convey was that CR spectators, without any other added knowledge or experience actually playing the game could be more inclined to run railroad-like games, simply because they are not aware of the sandboxing chaos happening in Mercer's head. It seems one unique and non-diverging story. About the styles of play, I recognize that's true, and to each their own. However, I feel like there are specific strengths to RPGs that encourage playing in a specific way. Of course, each game master has the freedom to run in any way they want, but that may lead to inadvertedly using RPGs to convey an experience they are not optimal for. Kinda like playing soccer with your hands. I mean, if you have fun homebrewing a sport like soccer but where using the hands is allowed, by all means go nuts. But wouldn't a game specifically made and optimized to use hands, like handball, suit your needs better? Thank you for the respectful comment :)
@azilastorelle6822
@azilastorelle6822 9 месяцев назад
​@@TheFirstArcadianDnD I hear you-- and I think that the reference to soccer is an appropriate one, for highlighting the disconnect. Neither D&D, nor any mainstream TTRPG, is meant to be a "set in stone" game which is to be played "one way", like "regulation soccer" is--- with the sole major exception being when you're playing through one of the Adventurer League type settings, which are "hardline RAW". That is NOT what the casual or typical home game is going to look like. Every single edition of the game stipulates that DMs and players alike should take what works for them, and leave what does not work for them--- the entire hobby is literally set up to do EXACTLY what you suggest, in terms of "playing soccer with your hands". If a group of people playing sportsball want to incorporate variant rules into their game, but still otherwise engage with the guidelines of soccer, who cares? Why do you? Unless their "hands-unlocked" variant soccer playstyle were being suggested as *allowable in regulation soccer*, or they were trying to force that variant rule system onto other players or recreational games, why on earth is that to be disparaged? If people are getting out and having fun kicking-and-handing a ball and having a blast doing so, what on earth does that matter to anyone? Is their fun ("playstyle") less valid, less real, less credible? Should they be discouraged from doing it, or discouraged from showing others their variant rules? These games are literally written to be diverse-- that is, to celebrate diversity not just in the substance of the worlds and settings, but also in celebrating the diversity of players coming to the diverse tables, from all over the world. If you want to encourage people to to do what you seem to be trying to, I would suggest first *discussing playstyles* and providing the nuance that there ARE different ways to play (because that is inarguable and is accounted for in literally every edition of the game), and that it isn't about "one true way" to play. Then have the confidence to explain what YOUR playstyle is, and clarify for a viewer that you're seeking to discuss THAT specific style. Because, honestly, after watching your video, I'm not remotely sure what style of play you're trying to encourage. Rules-heavy? Crunch? Narrative sandbox? Dungeon-crawl? Epic heroic campaign with character-driven elements? RAW League conforming competitive play? Optimization? The examples that you gave, which seemed to be intended to be examples of railroading, did not actually convey for a viewer what railroading was-- and therefore neither accurately represented the examples you were citing, nor did they convey clearly what model you were trying to propose (as presumably superior to those). Obviously viewers/spectators of a game like Critical Role are going to have some impressions about how the game is played which are different than if they were exposed to the game as players, first, rather than as audience members. That's not the fault of Critical Role, and thus, using the storylines of Critical Role (or any other real-play TTRPG stream) as examples in this feels misleading, or at least inadvertently misguided. If I watch a game of professional lacrosse, as a spectator, I'm going to have a different experience of lacross than if I tried out for a team in a local league, because as a spectator I would be unlikely to know the rules, objectives, or even the necessary gear and accoutrement needed, with the physical fitness and training demands entirely a separate and unsettled matter. Playing lacrosse is wildly different than watching other people play lacrosse--- but not because the people being watched are doing anything wrong. If you want to learn to play lacrosse (either with variant rules allowing for the use of ostriches and sticks of butter, for example, or using standard league rules) it is probably a good idea to learn to play lacrosse, rather than merely watching people play lacrosse. A lot of people who are learning to play D&D, or newer to playing and maybe don't even realize that they still have learning to do, are turning to RU-vid videos like this one--- and I believe that it does a disservice to those viewers, the very demographic which such a video seems organized to reach, when the information presented is presented in what amounts to a redacted format. Those weren't examples of railroading, and discussing a specific playstyle without actually naming that you're doing so, or identifying WHICH playstyle, or clarifying that there ARE playstyles, would be like making a video about "football" and not clarifying for a new and still-learning audience that there are distinctions between American Football (NFL, Super Bowl, et al) and Association Football ("soccer"), or other things which are related but distinct games, such as rugby, or foosball. A person who is here to learn the basics is not be served when the basics aren't just skipped over, but held in disdain: there ARE variant rules, EVERY table plays differently, and pretending otherwise is the equivalent of sending somebody to the batting cages with a tennis racket and a riding crop.
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