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A Biblical Analysis of Infant Baptism 

Mike Winger
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What can we say about infant baptism based just on the Bible? This video is a survey through a bunch of key passages that relate to the topic. I present it as an issue that we should not divide over but an issue that is worth examining biblically and talking about.
We will be looking at the "household" baptisms in Acts, and the idea that a parallel between circumcision and baptism means we should baptize infants. We'll also examine the New Testament nature of baptism since this relates to the idea of baptizing infants.
Here's the link to my very long debate on whether baptism saves or not. Time stamps on this video will help you navigate it. • Debate: "Is Water Bapt...
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29 июл 2019

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Комментарии : 1,1 тыс.   
@lorineilson7529
@lorineilson7529 5 лет назад
Thank you for your video. Speaking of Baptism I'm getting Baptized this Sunday.
@barry.anderberg
@barry.anderberg 5 лет назад
Me too!
@jaygee2187
@jaygee2187 5 лет назад
Congrats to both of you!
@PixlerPerspective
@PixlerPerspective 5 лет назад
How awesome for you guys! So excited for you
@Marixpress2
@Marixpress2 4 года назад
🥰
@tempstep4058
@tempstep4058 3 года назад
Belated congratulations! I just saw this video.
@weaversare
@weaversare 8 месяцев назад
I have been struggling with this for about a year. I was baptized as an infant in a Lutheran church. Then, I, in turn, baptized my children as an act of obedience to what I believed was an act preformed by the Holy Spirit/Christ. I now go to a different church and they want me to get baptized in order to serve. I didn't want to get baptized again just because they tell me to. I wanted to seek word from the Holy Spirit by prayers and supplication. I found a lot of versus about baptism but nothing explicit on the right age or right way to baptized (found Ezekiel 36:25-28 fascinating). God did not give them specifics like he did the building of the ark or the temple. Then I started asking if my church believed that I am not saved if I do not get re-baptized. I believe the Bible explicitly says that you are saved by grace alone, by faith alone. You would get baptized as a sign of what has already occurred in your heart through the Holy Spirit (both credo and pedo baptism supports that this is something done to us.) Then Matthew 3:11 changed everything for me. This was John the Baptist, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." I believe we are baptized with the Holy Spirit and he puts a fire inside of us. The water is only symbolic to what has happed to us, like communion is symbolic. The water does not circumcise our heart, the Holy Spirit does. We do it as remembrance to what happened. As a Lutheran I confirmed my faith at 13 in front of my congregation so they may hold me accountable. I know I am saved, I do not believe I need a second baptism because the Holy Spirit has done his work within me and has not moved me to be baptized another way and if there was a certain way to do so the Lord would has made sure it was in the bible.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 месяцев назад
One can only be baptised once, others are meaningless. The fact that the CC accepts baptism from other churches and not vice versa significant
@raphaeldasilva3269
@raphaeldasilva3269 2 месяца назад
@@geoffjs what do you mean ? Please explain as I tend to agree with what she said but I am still thinking about it
@suzziezhills
@suzziezhills Месяц назад
Agree with you altho I do believe and accept “in with and under” as the mystery of communion. We cannot know the mind of God nor are we expected to . One baptism for the remission of sun. Amen
@kaboom9081
@kaboom9081 Месяц назад
"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved". Romans 10. Babies are incapable of this. The LIE is that some churches claim babies/children go to hell if not baptized. Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19.
@suzziezhills
@suzziezhills Месяц назад
@@kaboom9081 how do you know? Don’t underestimate the holy spirit’s work in a child. Not challenging you but ask yourself at what age He is capable of instilling faith in a baby.
@fysherofmen
@fysherofmen Год назад
For the most part I just really appreciate your videos - even as a Lutheran! Of course, when I saw THIS topic in my feed I was interested in what you had to say. :) I STILL appreciated a some of what you pointed out, but of course, I do believe you missed the major point. You begin by saying that Christians all basically agree with what baptism is. But of course if that were true, we wouldn't be discussing infant baptism. Now, I will agree that I certainly wish the scriptures were a bit more flush on baptism, but as a Lutheran I would just say this (otherwise this would be a book!): The case for infant baptism has its greatest defense in its concept of "what it is". Even according to its name it is a "washing away" of sin. From a Lutheran (historic) perspective, baptism is for adults, yes, after coming to repentance and faith (and that was, of course, mostly the situation of the New Testament converts). But Lutherans see baptism not as a "work" of faith, but more a "participation" in the saving work of God in our lives. It is a gift of God for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38 for example). It is something GOD does, not a human response of faith. It is a means of grace. It is GOSPEL, not Law. It is the gracious act of God's seal upon our lives. As such, yes, infants are to be baptized. Even children need their sins forgiven. They are sealed as God's children as their sins are washed away. And as you mentioned, some people say that even infants and children can have "faith". Even as it might be very different from our mature Christian faith, it remains a Godly faith. Taken by themselves, I do not think there is significant weight to each of the arguments you address concerning "households", "all nations", witness of the early church, etc. However, considering all of them together along WITH the main argument from what baptism actually is, I would contend that infant baptism is most definitely a beautiful sign of God's mercy and love for even the "least" among us. Cheers!
@Free-flyBE
@Free-flyBE 3 месяца назад
beautifully said; I too was raised Lutheran as my children - I just considered their baptisms as my way of showing I will raise them in the faith & they are blessed my the Lord
@lauramikow2381
@lauramikow2381 3 месяца назад
As a life long Lutheran (with a couple of years in a non-denominational church) I totally agree with you. You stated our stance beautifully and I'm sticking with it.
@fysherofmen
@fysherofmen 3 месяца назад
@@lauramikow2381 Keep sticking with it! :)
@dm7g
@dm7g 2 месяца назад
Quick question. Genuinely curious on the matter. So what if somebody was baptized as an infant, but later rejects the faith as an adult and goes to hell (hypothetical). Do they "participate" in the saving works of Jesus, but not get saved? I know this can happen to adults too, but at least when said adult was baptized, he or she and the people around them believed them to be saved. With babies, we don't know if he or she will stick around in church if at all. How do you explain this to someone who has difficulty understanding infant baptism?
@fysherofmen
@fysherofmen 2 месяца назад
@@dm7g sure... some folks who advocate believer's baptism say that you need to make a "decision" for Jesus. And yet, baptizing a baby does not somehow obviate what happens as an individual of responsible age. In baptism, God pours out forgiveness and faith into the infant by the Holy Spirit and gives/assures salvation. However, it must be said that an adult most certainly can deny that gift of salvation and walk away from it. The key to understanding this is that it is always the "fault" of God if one believes and is saved, and at the same time, it is always the "fault" of the person if they deny the faith and lose their salvation. We Lutherans don't try to explain too much about why some are saved and others are not. We just like to say what the Bible says, giving thanks to God for faith (John 1) and blaming humans for any sin and falling away. Hope that helps a bit, even if it might not be too easy a teaching. One further note, Lutherans also teach that the promise of God in baptism is always good. Even if a person falls away the promise of God is always good (and actually active and working.) And if a person comes BACK to the faith, there is NO re-baptism. The first one is perfectly good. It was the promise of God and can never be rescinded.
@isabs8616
@isabs8616 5 лет назад
" is it my fault if people go to hell " I know several people who came to Christ without listening to any preaching , God called them directly, which is always the Holy Spirit who works inside a heart, and not a preacher who convince to believe. It happened to me, I saw a film of the Gospel at TV, and I started to love Jesus then. Even if the road was very long to real faith in Him, the seed was in without anybody but God. So, what I mean is God doesn't need us to reach a heart, except if He calls someone to do it .
@SeanWinters
@SeanWinters 3 месяца назад
God called men to make that TV show. God called men to write the gospels. A better example of what you're saying would be the story of Apollos of Alexandria, or of Riki Tiki Tavi.
@michellejoubert1370
@michellejoubert1370 5 лет назад
to answer your question, as long as i find it interesting, i would listen to 4 hour debate. Going to check it out now.
@susanl1412
@susanl1412 3 года назад
I was baptized as an infant and was always reassured that it “counted” by my pastor and parents. Your video is what pushed me to get baptized as an adult yesterday. I’ve watched most of your content and agree with you 99.9% of the time. So when this video came up that was in conflict with what I believed, I was surprised and intrigued because normally our views are not in conflict. Thank you for your ministry!!
@christophersmith7412
@christophersmith7412 3 года назад
Your parents and pastor were correct, provided we have been baptised in the same of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit then we only need to be baptised once.
@newcreationcoachingllc6491
@newcreationcoachingllc6491 3 года назад
Lutherans view baptism as conferring the Holy Spirit through the act and saying the words "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"-- they believe this act and words create saving faith, the infant believes supernaturally through the word, and is saved through this- but they have to be brought up in instruction and can fall away from the faith. This is a bit different than Catholicism, but a Lutheran congregation accepts a Roman Catholic's baptism because it is in the same words. Just putting a heads up here because I see a LCMS comment here. They are conservative brothers and sisters in Christ.
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 3 года назад
@VDMA LCMS Absolutely.
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 3 года назад
@@newcreationcoachingllc6491 The Lutheran view is not really different than the Catholic view on effects of infant baptism.
@peterfox7663
@peterfox7663 3 года назад
Considering baptism is only a symbol, I agree it would be personally meaningful to be baptized as a believer
@rolandovelasquez135
@rolandovelasquez135 2 года назад
Perfect Pastor. Thanks. I come from a Roman Catholic background and I have absolutely no recollection of my baptism. I was 13... 13 days old. And... This is even more incredible. My parents assure me that I was confirmed, and this would have been by the Archbishop, but I have absolutely NO recollection. The important thing is, by the time I was 15 I was definitely a confirmed sinner. Sought the Lord and He very graciously saved me. Solely by the blood of the Perfect Lamb of God. I will include this paraphrased quote from a Reformer; "Baptism is a positive evil in that it gives the sinner a false assurance of salvation and thereby impedes him or her from seeking the Lord and ultimately being saved." It's a sort of smoke screen. Seen it. Been there.
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 Год назад
OSAS is a false assurance if I ever saw one, if that is what you believe.
@avecruxspesunica2552
@avecruxspesunica2552 Год назад
Gospel According to St Mark Chapter 2 [17] Jesus hearing this, saith to them: They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners. Go on brother, go on your merry way and leave Jesus to us sinners.
@christsavesreadromans1096
@christsavesreadromans1096 Год назад
Baptism saves you. 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, John 3:5
@abford03
@abford03 Год назад
@@christsavesreadromans1096not by the physical action in and of itself. 1 Peter 3:21 tells us “and this water symbolises baptism that now saves you also-not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ” The water used in a physical baptism is symbolic of the baptism of the spirit. He states clearly that the baptism that saves doesn’t do so by removal of dirt from the body.
@christsavesreadromans1096
@christsavesreadromans1096 Год назад
@@abford03 It still says that baptism saves you… whether it has a symbolic part or not is irrelevant as to whether or not it’s salvific Peter preached baptism and repentance for the remission of sins, not faith alone (Acts 2:38).
@glenncherveny7682
@glenncherveny7682 3 года назад
Mike, great Analysis ! Thank you for this. I am a reformed Baptist, and run around in reformed circles, and this is one of those points we always heatedly debate! Still brothers, but usually ends with no resolution. I support the Credobaptism position.
@SeanWinters
@SeanWinters 3 месяца назад
That's how we ought to view all saved. Most saved are not "reformed", yet they're still brothers. Many saved have not had a believer's baptism, yet they remain saved. Our disagreements aren't always reason to "kick others out of the kingdom", good on you for recognizing that fact.
@hayleysimons6807
@hayleysimons6807 Год назад
It always is a strange point to me the desire for someone to remember their baptism, and therefore getting re baptised if they were as a baby. If baptism is something Christ does for you then your baby baptism is just as important and can be remembered in other ways rather than just physically. If baptism is something you do for God, then I understand the want to have it in recent memory.
@jmunt
@jmunt 7 месяцев назад
I don't think it's ever about wanting to remember it for the sake of remembering it. It's about wanting to be obedient to God. If someone goes through the scripture like in this video and comes to the same conclusion as this video, they might say "I can't even remember my baptism!" just as a figure of speech to indicate how far off it is from the Biblical picture.
@StoicHippy
@StoicHippy 5 лет назад
It is impossible to look at household baptisms without considering the mikveh and specifically that children undergo immersion (even infants) in the jewish conversion process. This is also not to say that mikveh is a precise comparison to Christian baptism, but it was certainly appropriated by Jesus Christ and the church. Also, that baptizo is defined as wash and not simply as immerse is also apparent in view of the mikveh.
@llllllllllllllIIlIllIIllIIIIll
Wrong.
@StoicHippy
@StoicHippy 5 лет назад
@@llllllllllllllIIlIllIIllIIIIll I guess that settles it.
@MistyEry
@MistyEry 5 лет назад
Lol, both of your answers. 😂
@IronFire116
@IronFire116 5 лет назад
Agreed. Saying "infant baptism isn't in the Bible" is similar to saying "the trinity isn't in the Bible."
@StoicHippy
@StoicHippy 5 лет назад
​@@MistyEry polite disagreement, the anti-youtube comment
@patrickzilla
@patrickzilla Год назад
There is so much clarity in this video @mikewinger thank you!
@Alexander07865
@Alexander07865 Год назад
I was baptized as an infant. I was baptism Greek Orthodox. My dad is Greek. Recently though my mom’s friend that’s a Catholic said it worked and u r washed from “original sin” and u got the Holy Spirit and u do not even know but now u know because I got the baptism of the Holy Spirt a few months ago. But before I was living in sin and I did not have the Holy Spirit because I was living in sin and no one was convicting me. I knew it was bad but I was living in sin. But when I asked God for the Holy Spirit 3 months go, I may not have felt anything cause I was a baby Christian but I no longer loved sin. I grew in faith in God and seeked God and his word and started to pray more and more. I never liked reading but I loved reading the word of God. It is so powerful. The peace I have from Jesus surpasses all understanding. Now that I have the Holy Spirt I obey righteousness and God not sin. So I know without faith, that water baptism is in vain. But with faith u proclaim faith in Jesus Christ and accept him as your Lord and Savior even before that and u know u have the Holy Spirit when he is fighting those fleshy desires. Cause if he isn’t fighting the flesh, who is? U just like in sin then. So I got born again 4 months ago, Glory to God. And I got the baptism of the Holy Spirit and felt warmth in my forearms and chest area and this was around 2 months ago. Sorry this is a long comment and sorry if it is confusing. God bless. Repent and trust in Jesus
@suzziezhills
@suzziezhills Месяц назад
Gosh really all of it is so complicated. Although I know my experience , upbringing, faith journey and marriage I do not judge how we all got here. Neither does God but they know our hearts. The Tower of Babel is deep and interesting. So why did this happen? Because we are not to think we surpass God. So He separated us.
@dogbreath9876
@dogbreath9876 Год назад
I can't wait till you get the verse where saint Paul says baptism replaces circumsion.
@Lilc97Jax
@Lilc97Jax 3 месяца назад
29:45 ❤
@charlesthe9aul
@charlesthe9aul Месяц назад
​@@Lilc97JaxWinger states that he is confused by the affirmative argument. He should be clear before arguing against.
@karincampbell9289
@karincampbell9289 10 дней назад
Makes no sense to me. I’m female, circumcision has nothing to do with females
@joycebaker8903
@joycebaker8903 5 лет назад
Mike, have you watched American gospel, Christ alone? How do you feel about it? Would appreciate your thoughts
@Daniel-pc1bg
@Daniel-pc1bg 3 года назад
He’s in the documentary. I’m assuming he agrees with it
@Particularly_John_Gill
@Particularly_John_Gill 3 года назад
@@Daniel-pc1bg He's in the 2nd one. He said in another video that it was too Calvinist for his liking.
@RyanDavidFerguson
@RyanDavidFerguson 3 года назад
I was just going to write down some dot points, but, well, here we are. TL;DR: - Most of the arguments in this video rest on the assumption that baptism is strictly symbolic. - Mike is correct that household baptisms don't say anything specific about infants, and some of the other citations don't even feature baptisms. But the strength of these rebuttals is in isolating these texts from the Biblical data regarding what baptism is and does. - Baptism is not a work, least of all when applied to a baby who cannot work. *** I think it's important to look at what Scripture describes baptism as being and doing. This heavily informs the discussion, and I find it weird that Mike did not dedicate a substantial portion of this video to the Biblical discussion of what baptism is or does. Romans 6 and Colossians 2 describe it as being united and buried with Christ and raised to new life with him. 1 Peter 3 declares that baptism saves you. John 3* describes it as being born again (or born from above) with water and the Spirit to receive the kingdom of God. Titus 3* describes it as the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit. *Provided that these passages are in fact speaking of baptism. They don't strictly state that baptism is the life-giving referent, so, while I find it unreasonable to deny that John 3 is describing baptism, I acknowledge that Titus 3 is a little more ambiguous and there is room for debate here. If baptism does not actually do these things, but is purely a symbol of these things, then it makes sense that the Biblical prescription for believers to be baptised is exclusive, and no one who is unable to display their faith should be baptised. But if these are not purely symbols, and baptism actually is and does the things Scripture says it is and does, then we should not see this as something we do to show that we have faith, but as a gift from God through which He imparts saving grace onto people. We also need to look at who baptises us according to Scripture. Physically speaking, the apostles (and then leaders established by them) baptise, but they do so in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. "So what?" I hear you asking. To do something in someone's name is to do it using their authority, such that we should treat it as though the one whose name is evoked did it themselves. So, when someone is baptised in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, we should see it as though God Himself is baptising them. If that's correct, then we should not separate the physical washing done by man from the spiritual washing done by God, and we should take seriously the idea that the things described in Romans 6 etc are actually happening in baptism. It's only in that context that we return to the question of baptising infants. If baptism doesn't actually allow access to the kingdom of God, then Mike is correct in saying that Luke 18 has nothing to do with baptism. If it does, however, then we should be alert to the fact that Christ declares the kingdom of God belongs to ones such as these. Do we see any baptisms happen in that passage? No. Should we hold up before dismissing its relevance? Yes. Likewise, Mike is correct that we have no clear evidence that any infants were baptised in any of the household baptisms. But if even one believing parent sanctifies their children in some way, and Peter's judgement at the end of Acts 10 is that no one should withhold the water of baptism those who have received the Holy Spirit, it seems a little out of place to suggest that he in fact would withhold the water of baptism from sanctified babies. Yes, I agree with Mike that the manner in which the children of believers are sanctified is equivalent to how the unbelieving spouse is sanctified; still, the unbelieving spouse is withholding the water of baptism from themselves by persisting in unbelief, but is that sufficient reason to withhold the water of baptism from the children? That doesn't seem sufficient to me. My final consideration in this long-winded dissertation is that everything I've argued so far is consistent with Sola Fide. Baptism is not a work that we do to obtain salvation, and even if those who are mature enough to choose to be baptised turn it into a work, it's self-evident that no baby works to receive baptism, and no baby is performing a work by receiving baptism. Baptism is simply given to the baby as a free gift, that they may be blessed in all the ways the Church is blessed. And so concludes my TedTalk.
@critical_mass6453
@critical_mass6453 2 года назад
That was long, lol. That the baby isn't asking to be baptized so it proves no works on its part argument seems so weak. Works are obviously being done! Not by the baby but by the parents and the preacher otherwise it wouldn't get done, at least in the manner of Lutheran traditions.
@razorknight92
@razorknight92 Год назад
There is an issue where (as far as I can tell), belief comes before baptism, and in many cases the Holy Spirit enters people and the baptism is something that occurs BECAUSE the Holy Spirit entered them. Flipping the order and assuming that baptism can cause the Holy Spirit to enter a person seems incorrect, that is, if what you mean by 1 Peter 3:21 is as you say. Then baptism is what saves, when clearly in scripture people are saved before their baptism.
@RyanDavidFerguson
@RyanDavidFerguson Год назад
@@razorknight92 In Acts, the timing of the Holy Spirit entering people and those same people being baptised seems to be all over the shop. Sometimes it's the same time, sometimes baptism happens first, sometimes the Holy Spirit is received first. So, it's pretty hard to draw any conclusive position from that on the precise relationship between the two. Still, 1 Peter 3:21 says quite plainly and explicitly that "baptism now saves you." It doesn't say that baptism exclusively saves you so that no one can be saved unless they are baptised, and it doesn't necessarily mean we are only saved by the Holy Spirit entering us/when the Holy Spirit enters us. "Baptism now saves you" is entirely compatible with people being saved by grace without having received either baptism or the Holy Spirit. But the key point is that "baptism now saves you" can be literally, unequivocally true without denying that people have been and are currently being saved outside of baptism.
@alexwr
@alexwr Год назад
Hi, could you clarify which of his arguments rely on baptism being viewed as symbolic? I've only watched the first half so far, but none of those points have anything to do with the symbolicness (to make up a word there) of baptism. They only refer to the idea that 'household' is unlikely to refer to infants. EDIT: Yeah, I got through till his Q&A section, and none of his arguments seem to rely on baptism being symbolic, can you enlighten me? Also, if water baptism isn't exclusively symbolic, could you tell us what physical effects it has in the world? Or if no evident physical effects, could you clarify what it would be if not exclusively symbolic? Thanks!
@RyanDavidFerguson
@RyanDavidFerguson Год назад
@@alexwr It's been two years since I wrote the above criticism, and I don't want to watch the full video again to dissect each, but I distinctly recall him front-loading his case with the blanket assumption that baptism symbolically buries and raises us with Christ (but doesn't actually bury and raise us with Him). From there, as best as I can recall, he didn't let the position that baptism actually grafts a person into Christ and grafts His life into us (a view which is more than symbolism) inform any considerations. The very motivation behind infant baptism throughout church history was omitted from the discussion. If he allowed this view to have a seat at the table, he would have needed to have a very different presentation, either arguing against the view itself or arguing that, if true, it still doesn't warrant infant baptism.
@SamandBeccaMizell
@SamandBeccaMizell 3 года назад
I’m a fan of your channel. I have listened to a number of your videos. There is one issue that jumps out to me... if all have sinned, if we are born with sin, then how can you claim that children get a pass for salvation? I don’t think that is taught in scripture. Thoughts?
@jennernolast6858
@jennernolast6858 3 года назад
Sorry for caps in advance. ORIGINAL Sin. Original is the first. So what is the original sin. It is when Adam listened to eve and not God. It is when Eve listened to the snake and not God. That’s the ORIGINAL. So do infants have that sin as well as soon as they are born? Of course not. God is fair. God is good. It is not just to transfer the sins of the father to the children. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Psalm 62:12 Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work. -- we will be judged according to our work, not on sins of our father Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. - on the second coming of Christ, children will disappear like a air and be taken to heaven right away. They won’t even be judged. They won’t go through judgment. They won’t even see it. Regardless of the religion of the parents. Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. Heb 5: 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. Prob 19: 14 House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD. - wealth can be inherited, but not sins 1 Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Mat 9: 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. - definitely not infants or children. They won’t need to repent.
@sleppynoggin8808
@sleppynoggin8808 2 года назад
@@jennernolast6858 we are bound by the sacraments God is not, we dont know what happen to babies if they die before baptism but we can trust the Lord Jesus will be fair just and loving
@jennernolast6858
@jennernolast6858 2 года назад
@@sleppynoggin8808 those who die without the law such as infants won’t be judged at all. What is there to judge?? They will go straight to heaven.
@silversouljones6891
@silversouljones6891 4 месяца назад
@@sleppynoggin8808we are not bound by the sacraments. That is manmade doctrine. Even the Pope today blesses homosexuality and says athiests and all other religions go to heaven.
@wanjadily
@wanjadily Год назад
Dear Ps Mike, I’m reading a book about parenting and the author subscribes to “convenant theology” : He uses Colossians 2:11-12ff to support the idea that baptism in the New Covenant is parallel to circumcision in the Old. We are baptised into the Christian community in the same way that they were, through circumcision, included into the people of the covenant. We know it didn’t mean they were automatically “saved” as not all were true spiritual children of Abraham, yet it meant they were the privileged recipients of the oracles and promises of God (Rm 3:1-3ff). How would you respond to such an interpretation of this passage?
@mattwalter6207
@mattwalter6207 Год назад
Pastor Mike clearly doesn't understand what covenent means...he admits that in the video
@wanjadily
@wanjadily Год назад
@@mattwalter6207 I heard what he said, but I'm sure he understands what the new covenant means in relationship to the old covenant. We know water baptism to be a sign of belonging to the new covenant community, much as circumcision was a sign of belonging to Israel... Simply I would be interested to know how Ps Mike would tackle this particular passage.
@mattwalter6207
@mattwalter6207 Год назад
@Yoshua Zimmermann He says he's confused by the term "covenent community" then he asks is being part of the covenent is saying they are saved. No one I know of thinks that baptism "saves" you. Salvation and covenent are different. This is why I say he doesnt understand it, since he equates it to Salvation
@wanjadily
@wanjadily Год назад
@@mattwalter6207 Ah all right, I understand better what you meant 👍🏻. I wish there would be more dialogue between "covenant theologians" and ministers like Ps Mike for greater mutual understanding.
@natalieschoenborn8446
@natalieschoenborn8446 5 лет назад
Pastor Mike, it is pretty cool how often God uses your videos to answer random questions I have about scripture passages I have recently read. I don't think it is a coincidence how often I hear teaching on what I just read in the Bible. 😊
@argablarga
@argablarga 3 года назад
Mike, I find many of your videos useful and helpful and well researched. I found your thinking in this video though a bit messy with some pre-conceived bias. As a side note I found your statement about people who try to act objective having already made up their mind a bit strange. It presupposes motivations. Sometimes people have not reached a final position despite extensive research and are still on the investigative journey letting evidence lead them. On your analysis of the term 'household': 1. You refer to infants being not mentioned/ignored/overlooked in the passages about the households (Cornelius, the jailer, Lydia and Stephanas). The same reason that they are not mentioned/ignored can easily be used to argue that they were baptised along with the adults in the household - they were just not mentioned/ignored/overlooked. It is not the contradiction you suggest it is to have references to actions that could only be done by adults in a household, but at the same time not exclude infants from the definition of the household especially in events where they could be passive participants. 2. No discussion of mikveh where parents and children (including infants) take part in mikveh. In a mikveh, an infant is a passive participant. It does not mean that they don't have a mikveh though. The 'believing' parties in the mikveh though are the adults, not the infants. 3. Similarly, the ceremony of purification that Jewish parents went through as described in Leviticus 12. Leviticus 12 and Leviticus 15 make it clear that there are reasons both Mary and Joseph as adults needed to undergo purification with a visit to the temple. But Luke refers to when the time came for 'their' purification, and Jesus was present. Yes he was taken along to be presented and consecrated at the temple, but the use of the word 'their' in 'their' purification does not rule out the presence of Jesus who was an infant at the time. 4. You refer to the cultural aspects of Lydia inviting the Apostles home and saying that it should normally have been the man of house who invited them home. But then assuming that she was on a 'business' trip is quite a stretch if she was subject to such a strong patriarchal culture? Proverbs 31 in any case talks about the noble wife who runs a business and runs her household with its servants etc, in whom her husband has complete confidence, she buys her own real estate, and opens her home to the poor and needy - from a culture that was surely more patriarchal than Lydia's gentile culture? Also, Lydia being from Thyatira could simply refer to her place of origin rather than place of residence - a reading that could be sustained from cultural considerations too. Being a seller of purple, a rare and valuable colour, may also indicate that she was quite wealthy. Perhaps she had more than one residence. Perhaps she and her family had seasonal residence at more than one place? 5. The fact there are 4 references to entire households being baptised and infants not being at least passive participants in the baptisms seems a little odd. None of the above necessarily sustains an argument for the necessity of the baptism of infants, but your arguments didn't really rule out passive infant participation in the baptisms of the households.
@mikeschmoll7762
@mikeschmoll7762 2 года назад
Do you have any sources where I can read about children/infants included in mikveh?
@silversouljones6891
@silversouljones6891 4 месяца назад
It’s incredible you believe saying Lydia was on a business trip is a stretch, but you don’t think the man-made tradition of the faithless baptism of non-believing infants is a stretch when it is no where recorded in the Word of God.
@argablarga
@argablarga 4 месяца назад
​@@silversouljones6891 you appear to have read that part of my comment in reverse... and ignored the rest of what I wrote. On one hand, Mike argues that Lydia inviting men to her home means that she must be unmarried (i.e. the only reason that she would make the invitation is because there is no man of the house), but at the same time argues that she goes on business trips also on her own. The cultural assumptions of both positions are contradictory. So it's not the business trip part that I find a stretch. You also assume my position on the baptism issue when I didn't express one. Critically analysing logic and pointing out fallacies is a part of honest intellectual thought.
@heatherp9339
@heatherp9339 3 года назад
I appreciate this because growing up my family actually split over this, like myself from my parents when I was a teenager. My dad does equate baptism with salvation *only while under the family 'umbrella'* and he uses all of the texts that you have mentioned, especially comparing it with circumcision. It divided not only my family but our entire church, it was devastating. As I had my own children he would press me regularly to get them baptized in case they died, as that would save them. For whatever reason infant baptism turned into a cult for the leadership that left the church at that time, it was weird, and beyond that, 100% destructive.
@huntsman528
@huntsman528 2 года назад
It all goes back to Augustine. He's the one who believed infants were damned if not baptized. It's the entire reason he went on a witch hunt against Pelagius, cause Pelagius didn't believe infant baptism was necessary.
@edrash1
@edrash1 Год назад
Not baptizing your children is an erroneous act of neglect and restricts them from covenant membership. Please do not be easily swayed by low-church polemics, the entire corpus of Christendom and the covenantal frameworks of God attest to infant baptism’s licitness.
@justonetime112
@justonetime112 Год назад
​@@edrash1I politely disagree
@jncon8013
@jncon8013 Год назад
@@justonetime112 I politely agree with your disagreement
@scottb4579
@scottb4579 Год назад
@@edrash1 I Cor 7:14 clearly shows children are covered under their parents faith. There is nothing about covenant membership in scripture hinging upon baptism for anybody. We only have confused people misreading scripture believing baptism is required for salvation. Or do you believe we as adults are saved solely by grace through faith, but a child or infant must partake of a ritual involuntarily to be saved when salvation is only ever by grace through faith and not by works? Peter makes abundantly clear baptism does not wash away the filth of the flesh, but is the answer of a good conscience toward God. A good conscience exists because of forgiveness and salvation. An infant has no knowledge of these things. I Peter 3:21
@kennystrawnmusic
@kennystrawnmusic 3 года назад
Thanks for this video, Mike. Definitely one of the things I disagree with my parents on despite being raised on it, with good reason.
@acortes7771
@acortes7771 5 лет назад
If one follows the Scriptural passages from OT to NT, the rite of initiation into the covenants has included children with Jewish boys being circumcised and the head of the household being the only one with knowledge of the covenant. Why would it change in the new covenant?
@MikeWinger
@MikeWinger 5 лет назад
Please consider the following. Is it also a rite for only boys like circumcision was? Why would it change in the new covenant?
@TheKingdomWorks
@TheKingdomWorks 5 лет назад
@@MikeWinger I don't like story books in comments but I would suggest three books that I have found over my journey that really give the whole picture from a biblical perspective on the subject. This is coming from someone who started in a believers only context and changed over and 'at the very least' allows freedom. 1. William the Baptist by James M. Chaney 2. Children of the Promise by Robert Booth (Baptist pastor turn Presbyterian) 3. Baptizo by James W. Dale(five volume study on the word transliterated as baptism) As you noted, I don't think this is an issue you need to divide over so I see no urgency to get on top of learning about it. Don't think this is a mind changer but I think it will fill in some of the blanks you have on the topic and at the very least remove the "how could you get to that conclusion" look. I have definitely gained respect from my believer only Brothers and have found it has added in the unity of the body.
@acortes7771
@acortes7771 5 лет назад
@@MikeWinger no, its not. The Bible doesn't specify that the old method of including the children of the household has been abrogated or (repealed). I don't see an issue either way, whether Paedo or Credo Baptism. Please correct me if I'm wrong or missing something? Thanks!
@acortes7771
@acortes7771 5 лет назад
@@TheKingdomWorks , having watched a few debates on the topic like Pastor Bill Shishko vs. James White. I'm pretty convinced that this issue should not be a denominational divisive issue. The Church of the Nazarene accepts both Credo and Paedo Baptism.
@TheKingdomWorks
@TheKingdomWorks 5 лет назад
@@acortes7771 good point. the Nazarene and presbyterian churches are the only ones that I have seen "not divide on the issue and I see no internal conflict. "We shouldn't divide on this issue brother but you meet over there on Sunday." lol
@LizzyMarieTina
@LizzyMarieTina 5 лет назад
I'm new to your channel. I would love for you to do a video on the counsel of Nicia (sp?) Or if anyone could point me to resources about it? Thanks!
@HanjoGouws
@HanjoGouws 5 лет назад
Inspiring Philosophy has a great video on it. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WSKBGdv07nQ.html
@brattytrist
@brattytrist 4 года назад
Ryan Reeves has a lot of great historical theology videos. Here's a link to Arius and Nicea ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Nduka-QqXbQ.html If you find it interesting, you might like his "After Nicea" video as well. God bless
@nametheunknown_
@nametheunknown_ 2 года назад
As always, great stuff. Thanks for your work and humility, Mike.
@firstpeter31822
@firstpeter31822 4 года назад
Acts 2:38 says "Repent and be baptized" which prompts the question "When do you ever hear a baby say 'I wee-pent'?"
@jeanbaptisteetienne2740
@jeanbaptisteetienne2740 4 года назад
Maybe we can´t hear how a baby says it? Luke 10,21: “At that moment, the Holy Spirit made Jesus extremely joyful, so Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from wise and intelligent people and have revealed them to infants."
@juanitadudley4788
@juanitadudley4788 4 года назад
@@jeanbaptisteetienne2740 Even if that's applicable, how can a baby communicate they have repented and their desire to be baptized? Where does Scripture say we should make that decision for someone else?
@FreddyCastaneda1
@FreddyCastaneda1 3 года назад
@@juanitadudley4788 because if you are a parent, you are the head of the Family, and therefore, all that you have is an inheritance for your children. That would include the faith you profess. Hence, you baptize your children as a seal and sign of the Faith you hold, which belongs to them as an inheritance. It is how the Jews viewed circumcision under the Old Covenant, and it is how Christians should view Baptism under the New Covenant. It has nothing to do with a person having the cognizant ability to repent or desire to be baptized because if you belong to Christ and are his from before the foundation of the world, then your salvation is secured no matter your actions or desires.
@juanitadudley4788
@juanitadudley4788 3 года назад
@@FreddyCastaneda1 I see no examples of infant baptism in the New Testament. Not any command to do it. Nor do I even see any mention of it.
@juanitadudley4788
@juanitadudley4788 3 года назад
@@FreddyCastaneda1 How does it have nothing to do with the cognizant ability to repent if it says "repent and be baptized". Scripture, not your philosophy.
@timothyjohnson4786
@timothyjohnson4786 4 года назад
Mike - Thanks for your efforts to help everyone to think more clearly from a Biblical perspective. In this video, from 29:50-30:50 you mention being unsure about the rationale for infant baptism from the "covenant community" perspective. I'm assuming you are aware that there are two major "grids" used when interpreting the Bible - covenant and dispensational. While there are nuances within these, those who use the first grid generally espouse infant baptism based on the concept of association with the covenant community. Those using this grid view the "Church" of the New Testament as a direct parallel to the chosen people of God (specifically, Israel) in the Old Testament, and since the Jews circumcised their children (based on covenental terms), the Church should baptize infants since the Church consists of the covenanted people of God today. It would be interesting to hear you present a short series on the differences between these grids. One resource for viewers is: "There Really is a Difference: A Comparison of Covenant and Dispensational Theology" by Renald E. Showers.
@huntsman528
@huntsman528 2 года назад
Probably because baptism has commands that precede it. Repent and believe. An infant can do neither one of these. Presenting different rules for one group of people over another is not from scripture. If baptism was simply the new circumcision, then all of any age should get baptized. The roots in augustinianism believed that baptism regenerated you. The reformation with Martin Luther also believes this. They all believe that infants are given faith and repentance through baptism.
@dillontarr8112
@dillontarr8112 Год назад
Brother Mike, there are many ways you could be described. One of those ways, I want you to know, is as sensible. 18:28 - What you said in the moments leading up to here... just straight sense. We hear so much nonsense in the world today that simple, logical, sensible descriptions of reality are very refreshing. May the Lord bless you in your fight against sin in your own life, that you might continue to be clear-minded to teach simply and rightly, helping others to do the same.
@AnUnhappyBusiness
@AnUnhappyBusiness 5 лет назад
If we define the Kingdom of God in such a way that we deny the infants, then we deny the very words of Jesus, who said that of such is the Kingdom of God. Also, if we deny that infants are included in households then apparently we are not commanded to care for them in 1 Timothy 3:8. Also, it is quite clear that Paul believed Timothy knew the Scriptures from the very womb or at least a very very young age, when he says you have known the Scriptures from “brephos” (2 Tim 3:15) which means a child in the womb in Luke 1:41 and elsewhere always means very young
@ETBrothers
@ETBrothers 3 года назад
I don't get why you refered to 1. Timothy 3:8... Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 1 Timothy 3:8 ESV
@AnUnhappyBusiness
@AnUnhappyBusiness 3 года назад
E. T. Brothers sorry, should have been 1 Tim 5:8.
@GeorgePenton-np9rh
@GeorgePenton-np9rh 3 года назад
As far back as we have records babies were being baptized by Christians.
@peterfox7663
@peterfox7663 3 года назад
I don't believe Jesus ever mentioned infants, but that aside -- a baptism doesn't grant you entrance to the Kingdom of God, so I don't see how you are denying an infant God by not baptizing them
@SymphonyZach
@SymphonyZach 3 года назад
Baptizing a kid at 15 vs at 5 weeks doesn’t really make a difference. If they don’t fully consent, it’s worthless. If they are mindful of their life and their walk with Christ they may be baptized. You’re not denying them Christ by not sprinkling water on them. The water means nothing if there is no faith in that person. An infant cannot learn it cannot obey God. All it knows is crying and it’s mother. A baby can not go to hell, they don’t need to be baptized
@jamessheffield4173
@jamessheffield4173 5 лет назад
Question: Why did the Holy Ghost use the word household instead of adults?
@jamessheffield4173
@jamessheffield4173 5 лет назад
You dogged the question. Matthew 21:16 “And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?” @Goldstein
@jamessheffield4173
@jamessheffield4173 5 лет назад
You dodged the question again. Why did the Holy Ghost use household instead of adult? Jesus says out of the moths of babes and sucklings perfects praise. So Jesus feels children can. When I raised my children when they were young they accepted the pure milk of the Word without question, but at the age of reason the began to doubt, so you should learn from them. Baby John’s emotional heart was filled with joy…the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 3) Baby John was in the presence of Christ, which means Christ was presented to John . Babies are capable of sensing many things in the womb like music, smoke, the taste of carrots, and light www.bing.com/search?q=kjv+john+the+baptist+leaped+for+joy+in+the+womb&form=EDGTCT&qs=PF&cvid=cc0e60cf5f7c46f398838690d8ca1f7d&refig=984184dc5e95433c9b88c11f4e84b5b0&cc=US&setlang=en-US&elv=AQj93OAhDTi*HzTv1paQdnhUveTTeOSY7t1Dj3HxJt*oyBYjFjHQwzydddSMTBvjpl2gzEFMBnBXytS0538Cc0zm5V5dNnk1rj4GN%219l0n2k&plvar=0&PC=HCTS. @Goldstein
@silversouljones6891
@silversouljones6891 4 месяца назад
Is that really a question you want to ask God Almighty when trying to push a faithless baptism? What’s next, getting babies to eat communion? What happened to the fear of the Lord
@jamessheffield4173
@jamessheffield4173 4 месяца назад
@@silversouljones6891 1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
@silversouljones6891
@silversouljones6891 4 месяца назад
@@jamessheffield4173 since u wanted to cut out part of the sentence here’s the full sentence: “Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭‬‬ Clearly telling Christians to desire the Word of God as their milk the same as newborn babies do breast milk so they can grow in their faith. Has nothing to do with newborn babies being baptized without believing in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
@jessemetzger1154
@jessemetzger1154 4 года назад
Q...Pastor Mike, thank you for covering this. I was raised in a Lutheran family. I love the Lord Jesus as my Savior from sin through grace ALONE. However, as you well know, Lutherans among many others in the Christian church practice infant baptism. My wife and I have 3 young children and our fourth is due any day now. During the last year God has really put it on my heart to struggle with this issue of baptism. During that time, God has made it abundantly clear to me that believer’s baptism is the only observed form of baptism in Scripture. I have two questions that I would like to ask. First, if baptism is just a transliteration of “baptidzo,” which means immersion, wouldn’t we do a just service to ourselves to use the word “immersion” instead of baptism when reading Scripture? I feel that would clarify many issues people create about this topic. Secondly, I’m often confronted with the “power” of baptism as a reason to infant baptize, often citing Jesus’ baptism as the source and evidence of the power. What do you say to that and what does Scripture show you about its power, if any? Thank you.
@ryanteuscher7996
@ryanteuscher7996 4 года назад
Go to Google and search Early Church Fathers on bible study tools the go to 3rd century and find Tertullian. Then read his thoughts on baptism. The world was made out of water, the Isrealites went through water when saved out of Egypt. God used water to make man. The Spirit was waiting above the waters in the beginning. If you can find it in the Old Testament you will have your answer. The Spirit of the Law not the letter. Hope this helps. The only thing I would say is that immersion should be used for infants as well. Also, you are not in the wrong if you decide to let your child decide.
@johnmarquardt1991
@johnmarquardt1991 4 года назад
There is no such thing as 'believers baptism'. Talk to your pastor. You're focusing on the work not the grace.
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 3 года назад
quote; During that time, God has made it abundantly clear to me that believer’s baptism is the only observed form of baptism in Scripture. It is true that most baptism's recorded in Scripture seem to be done to those who are old enough to repent and believe, however, there are instances recorded in Scripture where whole households were said to be baptized, and there was no exceptions mentioned, such as infants or young children. Jesus said in Matthew 19:14, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." If these little children were acceptable to Jesus as they were, then what is to prevent them from being baptized? They still would need to accept Jesus on their own once they reach the age of accountability, because baptism alone is not saving.
@FuzzballToday
@FuzzballToday 3 года назад
We ALL fall short because of original sin and we are baptized to be saved by our savior Jesus Christ..including loving our kids enough to want to be with their parents hopefully in heaven...welcome the children...baptize them..
@albusai
@albusai 2 года назад
@@jzak5723 exactly, one has to repent and then be baptized
@orlandowiebe9371
@orlandowiebe9371 5 лет назад
Q. I was baptized by the sprinkling of water on my head when I became a believer at the age of 20. As I have grown and walked with the lord now for 10 years I have regretted for getting emerged in a river or something. My question is this. Since I’ve been baptized is it ok to do it agin this time with being emerged, or is the sprinkling ok. The key is it was in front of a church congregation ( witnesses) and it was in regards of my declaration to believing and wanting to follow Jesus for the rest of my life. But it’s how I got baptized I’m little uneasy about. Anyone got any advice? Much love thanks
@georgepenton808
@georgepenton808 5 лет назад
According to the Catholic Church as long as the tiniest bit of water flows over the forehead the Baptism is valid. The Church also teaches that Baptism can be done by anyone, even a heretic, even an atheist, and that once done places a character, ir mark, on the soul, so repeating a Baptism is impossible.
@sandina2cents779
@sandina2cents779 5 лет назад
There is nothing in the Bible that says that you cannot be baptized again. The only way that people were baptized in the Bible was to be submerged. It would have been much easier to sprinkle them with water in the cities but they didn't do that and neither did Jesus. Baptism itself when you go down into the water it represents dying with Christ and when you come out of the water it is being raised in your new life with Christ. You can't do that with sprinkling.
@sandina2cents779
@sandina2cents779 5 лет назад
@@georgepenton808 and that doesn't sound odd to you? You can get baptized by a heretic or an atheist and it still counts? That's absurd.
@candlelit3740
@candlelit3740 5 лет назад
Hey Orlando! I think a point of greater importance is what's talked about in Colossians 2:12 (NASB): "...having been buried with Him (Christ) in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." I think the main point in this verse is: "through FAITH, in the WORKING of GOD"; so my suggestion is to focus not so much on the amount, or method of baptism, but rather on WHO it is that's working in you through the baptism. Remember that in Acts 10:44-48, it was more for the benefit of the circumcised believers and Peter that they WELCOME and BAPTIZE the believing Gentiles into the Body of Christ. The Gentiles had ALREADY received the Holy Spirit, so of what benefit to them would a full water baptism be?? The Gentile's readiness to be baptized was a declaration of faith to the church; however their baptism was valuable & humbling turning point for the early church itself; to finally RECEIVE into the body the "unclean" whom Christ had already made clean. Remember also in John1:19-34 that John the Baptist baptized with water, but yet he pointed forward to a more significant time when Christ would baptize with the Holy Spirit. This is not to say that water baptism isn't important, it is very important and foundational, otherwise why would Peter have ordered the baptism of the Gentiles who were already saved? I myself was sprinkle baptized as a teenager, I later surrendered my life to Christ some time after high school, then soon after that I decided to have a full immersion baptism; which happened at our pastor's house in the backyard swimming pool. In my honest opinion, I don't think my full immersion baptism was really necessary, from a salvation standpoint, because I knew I was already saved; but regardless, God still used it as a very special and uplifting time for me, for my pastor, and for my friends. It was a public declaration before people & God that I belonged to Christ; and the in the same way I trusted the arms of my pastor to lower & raise me from the water, I also trust the Lord to, with HIS HANDS, begin and finish HIS WORK in me. So if you want to get baptized again, yet with full immersion, I would say go for it; and make it a special time of surrendering your entire self into Jesus' hands, and maybe even pray that God use it to bless and minister to family and friends who may be there with you. Anyway, having said all that, do you believe you are any less saved because of the physical size of the water? Was Naaman any less healed by washing seven times in the "crummy" waters of the Jordan? (2 Kings 5:1-14) Take care & God bless!
@thejess121205
@thejess121205 2 года назад
I’m a little late in the game to this video but I was filled with the Holy Spirit when I was 5. I believed on Jesus and he has been my Lord ever since. Now, there may have been some poor understanding of theology because I was five but I knew Jesus was God and he was MY God. I was then baptized at five years old. I remember it to this day, I was in a bathroom with my parents and my pastors and my pastor baptized me in their bathtub. Because the Holy Spirit was at work in my life at such a young age I unfortunately took on some religious spirit thinking I needed to be perfect. What are your thoughts on children being baptized if they understand and believe and the evidence of tongues is there? Because I’ve heard different things.
@elleninpa5135
@elleninpa5135 3 года назад
Great message!
@labellemchenry2320
@labellemchenry2320 4 года назад
Why would I exclude a child from baptism if Jesus says in John 3,5 we need to be born again by water and Spirit to be saved?
@keeganryan8156
@keeganryan8156 4 года назад
Does faith or water baptism (and other sacraments like Communion for that matter) save? Baptism is a result of the faith that exists, which infants don't have. Further, we can make the distinction between physical baptism and Spiritual baptism. Ephesians 1:13 and Romans 8:9 indicate we receive the Holy Spirit upon believing in Christ, and 1 Corinthians 12:13 says "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body..." Water baptism is symbolic of Spiritual baptism, which happens upon receiving Christ. We go under the water as we (spiritually) went into the grave, and come up as we (spiritually) rose again as a new creation in Christ (Romans 6:3-4). Many churches do child dedication, having the same effect as infant baptism, where the congregation and family dedicate themselves to raising up the child. But the issue is the child still has to make the choice when he or she is older to believe, even if you baptize them, because they haven't accepted Christ for themselves yet.
@creepingsancy
@creepingsancy 4 года назад
@@keeganryan8156 "Baptism is a result of the faith that exists, which infants don't have" quick question then: if an infant dies, do they go to heaven? If you say they do - then they go to heaven by a means other that the bible insists on. Do you not say an infant does not have faith? Then, if you are correct, an infant can not enter heaven. How would you solve this problem?
@married_ambition
@married_ambition 3 года назад
@@creepingsancy Age of understanding. God is merciful and not going to send an innocent child to hell. Wake up and stop trying to be smart with silly word games
@creepingsancy
@creepingsancy 3 года назад
@@married_ambition The "age of understanding" has absolutely nothing to do with my original criticism. Which is this: why does God save anybody apart from the Only Way clearly laid out in scripture? The "innocent child and merciful God" routine won't work for you either because the the old testament has numerous examples of God commanding the death of women, children and babies of the enemies of God. God is even blessing those who kill the infants of His enemies. Does God kill the innocent? Does He consider His enemies children innocent? Does He send them to hell? I am clearly not smart. I am willing to learn. The best way I know to be "woke" is to ask questions. I find this topic fascinating. Perhaps we could have a conversation about what the age of understanding means to you?
@married_ambition
@married_ambition 3 года назад
@@creepingsancy Ok. So by your logic because a baby is baptised in water and has prayers recited over him he is saved from hellfire???? 😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ ur stupidity astounds me
@Jeremy-vf7su
@Jeremy-vf7su Год назад
0:00 - Introduction and Format (2:13 - Difference in Interpretation & Unity in Christ) 3:20 - Disclaimer on Pastor Mike's position 4:00 - Part I - Who was supposed to be baptized in the New Testament? 12:10 - Part II - Household Baptisms
@dhfocus7
@dhfocus7 3 года назад
Thank you for this video.
@renaud_gagne
@renaud_gagne 3 года назад
7:06 the word "disciple" doesnt necessarily refer to "believers". It is also used to refer to children being disciplined by their parents in the old testament.
@shiningdiamond5046
@shiningdiamond5046 3 года назад
@@jam82599 Flase it is someone who is given the mark of the lord and infants who were not baptized are subject to the punishment of Original sin.
@survivordave
@survivordave Год назад
Disciple and discipline might come from the same root but that doesn't make anyone subject to discipline a disciple
@wmarkfish
@wmarkfish 5 лет назад
A few comments here; Firstly, why would someone resist baptism... for fear of "works"?? Are they like cats and afraid of water? Now, Mike, could you address Church government and the role and position of priests/vicars in the church (whether a clerical or priestly class has any rule over the church). And here's a thought totally unrelated but heavy on my mind: The media and in movies and TV shows, whenever there is a positive depiction of christians it seems always to be Catholics (Father Brown etc.) and when there is a negative depiction of christians (which is most of the time) it is Protestants (but not always) and usually ones with southern accents. I don't think there are many negative depictions of Anabaptists, they are mostly ignored and left out of all categorizing or lists of types of christians. I have encountered lists that include Mormons and JW's, which are no more Christian than Muslims, yet fail to mention Anabaptists who indisputably are christian.
@pootprancia1956
@pootprancia1956 2 года назад
Because Catholics are the real Christians.
@dogbreath9876
@dogbreath9876 Год назад
12:18 if we limit our selves to the bilbe? what do we get? your interpretation?
@micahodom2487
@micahodom2487 10 месяцев назад
How do you respond to the view that all OT foreshadowing have a greater inclusion in the NT. Colossians 2:11-12 says that circumcision corresponds to baptism, why would the NT fulfillment exclude those who were included in it in the OT?
@janpiet1530
@janpiet1530 6 месяцев назад
In addition to Col 2, how do our Baptist brothers and sisters explain the continuation of Abraham (Galatians 3 and 4, the promise given through Abraham + Paul's explanation of Romans 4:11-12 of circumcision and covenant) and the inclusion of descendants in Genesis 17 as an eternal covenant, to be their God and they (Abraham and his descendants) as His people.
@slamrn9689
@slamrn9689 5 лет назад
Absolutely most thorough explanation of the Biblical view of infant baptism I have heard!
@Madhatter675
@Madhatter675 5 лет назад
Hi Mark, wondering if you can do a study or video on seventh day adventism??
@dahelmang
@dahelmang 3 года назад
They are a bit strange but do not change who God is like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do.
@drendaparfitt7417
@drendaparfitt7417 3 года назад
Mike Winger where do you preach?
@DavidGuzikEnduringWord
@DavidGuzikEnduringWord 5 лет назад
Mike, I really appreciate this video (and all your work). This subject is something of a hobbyhorse for me... the more I study the arguments for infant baptism (especially from the Reformed camp) the more I see it all comes down to their understanding of the covenants, which I believe is largely incorrect. This is something I would love to do a deep dive on myself, because I find it fascinating (and think it is important, though of course - not of ultimate or primary importance). But one question we could talk about another time would be about taking the argument that baptism is the “sign” of the covenant. As you noted, the Bible nowhere says this, though it does say that circumcision was the “sign and the seal” of the covenant. But, would it be more accurate to say that the Lord’s Table is the “sign” of the covenant? After all, at the Last Supper, when the Lord’s Table (communion) was instituted, Jesus said: “This is the New Covenant in My blood.” Anyway, great video and God bless you
@morelmaster
@morelmaster 5 лет назад
Baptism is a sign of the new covenant, just as circumcision was the sign of the old covenant. Babies in the OT didn't have a say in the matter did they? “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). The fact that Jesus emphasizes baptism shows that it is the seal of belief in Jesus as the Messiah. It is not necessary for a baby to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior verbally to get baptized, any more than it was for a baby in the OT to give consent to circumcision. Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” (Matt. 19:14) You cannot get any clearer than this, the kingdom of heaven BELONGS to little children, and that includes infants. It's not talking about children and infants that grow up to be adults and accept Jesus on their own, but CHILDREN AND INFANTS as they are.
@derekallen4568
@derekallen4568 5 лет назад
So tell me please! At what age does a child have to except Jesus or risk going to hell.
@kalebl.4917
@kalebl.4917 5 лет назад
When they are able to really understand what the gospel means. It is not a set age but depends on the maturity of the person.
@derekallen4568
@derekallen4568 5 лет назад
@@kalebl.4917 And you know this, how?
@sarahfaith316
@sarahfaith316 5 лет назад
Derek Allen We know this because how does the BIBLE say one can be saved? By believing in the Gospel. So at whatever age a person matures to the point of being able to understand the gospel and become aware of their sin and their need of a Savior, then at that point, a person becomes accountable and is ready to be saved. No set age, depends on the person.
@derekallen4568
@derekallen4568 5 лет назад
@@sarahfaith316 and if that child is brought up as a hindu and hasn't yet heard of the gospels?
@sarahfaith316
@sarahfaith316 5 лет назад
Derek Allen ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IiyxpE5UBz4.html
@kathieboehnemann8203
@kathieboehnemann8203 3 года назад
The Bible does mention the Holy Spirit entering a baby when John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb. I was baptized as an infant & confirmed at 13, but I have since decided that I believe in "Believer's Baptism". I had the joy of being baptized in the Jordan in Israel when I was 62.
@Weissguys6
@Weissguys6 3 года назад
How beautiful 😍
@SymphonyZach
@SymphonyZach 3 года назад
So lucky. I want to visit jordan where Jesus was baptized. Which is in modern day jordan, we tbink. Not israel
@kinggamba5760
@kinggamba5760 2 года назад
It doesnt say the baby got filled with the holy spirit, it says elisabeth
@sulongenjop7436
@sulongenjop7436 Год назад
I thought the Holy Spirit had entered the male fetus in Mary's womb!😂
@TriciaPerry-ef7bi
@TriciaPerry-ef7bi 9 месяцев назад
​@@sulongenjop7436it enter the baby in her womb but this is totally different then being born as a baby. These people are twisting the word and NOT SPEAKING THE TRUTH. BABIES ARE NOT TO BE BAPTIZED AND can't repent
@MikhailAntonioHarris
@MikhailAntonioHarris 3 месяца назад
Amen, what is your point on dedication of infants ?
@JohnDought
@JohnDought Год назад
My household consist out of my wife and two children 😀 is this a household?
@captainfordo1
@captainfordo1 5 месяцев назад
Baptism regenerates those with faith through the power of the word. (Ephesians 5:26) Infants can have faith. (John the Baptist as an example) Therefore, infants should be baptized.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 месяцев назад
Agreed, but you’re pushing uphill against lies and prejudice
@kaboom9081
@kaboom9081 Месяц назад
Babies are incapable of this; "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved". Romans 10. The LIE is that the catholic church claims babies/children go to hell if not baptized. Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19.
@danielfryxelius
@danielfryxelius 4 года назад
Hi Mike! regarding, are babies part of the covenant? (you raised a question in 30 min about the confusion around circumcision and baptism) You asked: If babies are now part of the covenant, do they mean you are saved by baptism? What about kids that are not baptized? this raises a lot of questions... Answer: Baptism is the first step into the christian life. It is in baptism you are clothed in Christ, dead from the old man, start a new, invisible life with God and are cleansed from sin. So is there any problem with the view that this is the first step as a christian? Paul was baptized the same day he was healed, so was the guard at Fillipi, all the people on the Pentecost day. For them the christian life started with baptism. Baptism shows that you have entered the covenant. Is not that what the early Pentecostal movement taught also? that you gain a membership in the church when you are baptized? at least in Sweden that is our history. Soooo... Do one get saved by the baptism? Actually, that is a question for all christians, not the proponents for infant baptism. Because whatever the case, the point is to show who are the followers of christ, not who is eternally saved. The reason you raise this question is probably because in your own mind, all babies, all believers, all Christians are part of the covenant by default. Maybe you think that no one needs to "enter" the new covenant. But that seems to me very unbiblical. So if you are not baptized, you are not part of the new covenant. But the salvation is given to all of mankind, through Jesus, even those who lived before his sacrifice. Abraham got part of Jesus sacrifice, Jacob, Isaac, Josef and so on. All could be saved through Jesus. But when Jesus came he started a new covenant for those who would join him, and they became disciples. Note that John the baptist was never a disciple of Jesus, though he believed, and therefore not part of the new covenant.
@Jruuuuuuu
@Jruuuuuuu Год назад
Can you do a debate on this with a catholic and a reformed Presbyterian. I’m very curious about having all three opinions in the same room.
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time Stamp 47:20 Where does it say in Bible that you need to make a choice for Baptism? 1 Peter 3: 18-22
@albusai
@albusai 2 года назад
When you repent and believe in Jesus
@timothy6115
@timothy6115 2 года назад
Mike really spoke into the text at this point.
@67L48
@67L48 2 года назад
The answer is in the very text that is quoted. Peter clarified that it’s not the baptism itself that saves. Per “not the removal of the filth of the flesh …”. That’s literally what the second half of v21 means. It again affirms that baptism is symbolic of the faith in Christ, which is alone the path to salvation. If we could confer salvation upon people through baptism, then we should all of us be driving around, grabbing random people, and forcibly baptizing them!
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
I am just a layman but why have you not include Mark 16:16 ? Maybe if we consider Babtism something that Jesus is doing to us as a gift for the forgiveness sin.
@jennernolast6858
@jennernolast6858 3 года назад
Mark 16 ends in verse 8. 9 to ending is an additions of a false translator. 9 to ending contradicts the gospel. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. -- even people who doesn’t believe in God but are good people and doing good things will be saved. They will be judged by God the father. Jesus will judge the ones who believe.
@ByGracethroughFaithEph.2.8
@ByGracethroughFaithEph.2.8 2 года назад
It's a blessing their is continuity in the Bible. The Bible tells us that Baptism points to God's work(1Peter3:18-22;1Cor10:1-10) of adoption,covenant and promise(Rom9:4) just like physical circumcision and like the old testament it would include 8 day old babies into the covenant as God's Holy people(Act2:38-39;Gen17:7). The sign of physical Circumcision and the sign of Baptism is God's promise,covenant and adoption of """All"""" God's Holy nation(1Peter2:9) and just like the old covenant everyone needs circumcision of the heart (Rom6:11; 1Cor10:1-6). Baptism is a sign of God's holy people and promise and covenant which would include 8 day old babies or the Holy Christian household. Circumcision of the heart or Faith is repentance or a public testimony of inward confession(Rom2:29) of the experience that has occurred inwardly in a life. In Faith, we bear fruit(Matt3:7-10) as Gods Holy covenant people and witnesses and confess our identification with the Lord Jesus Christ.
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time Stamp 29:29 Do babies need a Savior? Psalms 51:5 & Genesis 3:8-20
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time stamp 37:15 What is happening at Baptism? Titus 3:5-8
@daphniefarkas5703
@daphniefarkas5703 4 года назад
Infants cannot make an informed decision to follow jesus. I was baptized as an infant and then became a pagan for 15 years. I would have gone to hell anyway if jesus didn't come and get me when I was 30.
@SpotterVideo
@SpotterVideo 4 года назад
Based on Luke 3:16, and Acts 11:15-16, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, the most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. Jesus told Nicodemus a person must be "born again" of the Spirit of God, in order to inherit the kingdom of God.
@mythologicalmyth
@mythologicalmyth 4 года назад
Neither can 5-year olds in atheist-style sunday school classes and atheist public schools you sacrificed your children to make informed decisions but you decide for them, no? Ahhhhhh. Details are the enemy of truth!!!!! Train up a child in the way they should go. This Winger guy is inconsistent in his OICA-style wannabe unBaptist depentecostalized non-nondenominational religion.
@bradenglass4753
@bradenglass4753 3 года назад
@@mythologicalmyth okay Trevor
@WillhideOnIce
@WillhideOnIce 2 года назад
@@mythologicalmyth okay Trevor
@mythologicalmyth
@mythologicalmyth 2 года назад
@@bradenglass4753 tough rebuttal but I’ll give it a shot. Ummmm........
@stefanusmurrayterblanche4977
@stefanusmurrayterblanche4977 5 лет назад
Thank you Mike for posting a video on this. I only wish it had been a bit sooner. I live in South Africa and my fiance's dad is an Afrikaans pastor (dominee) of the 'Nederduitsch Hervormde kerk van Afrika' (reformed and kind of like the Presbyterians). I have been going to a Baptist church at University and grew in my walk with the Lord significantly (thanks to His grace and pursuit for my soul) So, I had a lot of doubts and struggles with her family on this issue. Her dad says that those who believe in believer's baptism make it an accomplishment. As if they found God and need to now somehow publicly showcase this decision. But I never once found this to be true at the church I went to. They always made Christ's death and resurrection the main point. Her dad also argues that we cannot say that we only believe because of our baptism and not because of God's work in our our hearts FIRST (hence the infant baptism is biblical to them). I will watch your video again and see if I am able to peacefully discuss these points with him. Because the sad thing about all of this is that he wants to completely sever the relationship (in terms of church activities etc) as he believes this teaching of believer's baptism is not biblical and even a heresy. Thanks so much for your help. May God richly bless you
@micahmiss
@micahmiss 5 лет назад
Having gone through some of the comments, it does seem that people believe what they believe around this issue, so even though Mike makes valid points, 'arguing' the point often has little effect. (Just from observation) So having family in the NG Church myself, I would encourage you to pray for him. And keep on praying. Pray for insight, for God's Truth and for yourself for wisdom. And pray for your relationship with him. Blessings x
@danielmuller5261
@danielmuller5261 5 лет назад
Ds is maat moeilik . Lol ! Stel hom n uitdaging , vra hom om van Matteus tot Openbaring te lees en elke teksvers wat hy kry oor doop neer te skryf . Dalk sal die waarheid dan vir hom deur breuk. Aan die ander kant , mens kan nie iets verstaan wat die Gees nie aan jou bekend maak nie . Alle seën en voorspoed . Die gebed van n regverdig dra baie krag.
@DrChrisPM
@DrChrisPM 5 лет назад
Bro, don't ever let water baptism be a divisive issue. I believe in infant baptism but it's not a point over which to break off
@jonnosjimny
@jonnosjimny 9 месяцев назад
@@DrChrisPM when it’s regarding one’s own child it can become more of a challenge.
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time stamp 25:35 Are babies included in nations? If so why would we not include them in household? Are babies include in the Church? Matthew 28:18
@givethanks6714
@givethanks6714 3 года назад
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Question: Why did not Luke also write children/babies/infants after "men and women" when it would fit so great and put all things to rest. Maybe because they actually did not baptize infants? Oikos (household) can mean more than a family by blood with children. Can be literal, figurative, no kids, kids, servants etc. So making household in Acts must mean a literal family with infants could be wrong. Also consider the context of the Jailer, that they spake unto him and spake unto all that were in his house. Infants can't grasp the words of the Lord ( the gospel etc) and not believe like older persons based on that. If babies was baptized there, then they also should have believed there, because v. 34 in contrast to v. 33 "believing in God with all his house" Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Act 16:31 And they said, *Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ*, and thou shalt be saved, and *thy house*. Act 16:32 And they *spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house*. Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was *baptized, he and all his*, straightway. Act 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, *believing in God with all his house*. People should just accept that his household is a bad argument at best, and at worst flat out wrong/twisting the actual intention of the writer.
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time Stamp 48:29 Can Baptism be an obediance? Or can it give us Jesus? Romans 6:1-15
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 Год назад
Acts 16:33 - At that hour of the night, the jailer took them and washed their wounds. And without delay, he and ALL his household were baptized. If you read this verse, would anyone make exceptions in their own mind for infants and very young children? So even IF the author of Acts knew that there were not infants or very young children in that particular household, he wrote it as if the reader would think that this could be any normal household where the possibility of having infants and/or very young children in it was a distinct possibility.
@survivordave
@survivordave Год назад
Tell us you didn't watch the video without telling us you didn't watch the video 😂 He addresses that passage. If you're going to insist on infants being included in "the whole household" then you have to consistently apply that to every use of the phrase, so then you also have to believe that infants were doing things like believing in Christ and sending greetings to other people as whole households do in other passages. If saying "the whole household" doesn't include the infants for believing and sending greetings, then it also follows that it is unreasonable to assume that when whole households are baptized that the infants are necessarily included in that statement, if they were present at all. Common sense and the normal use of language suggest either these households had no infants or, for the purpose of recording these whole household activities, the infants were not counted. We do this all the time on ordinary language. We might say "The whole family watched a funny movie on TV last night" even knowing full well that the baby slept through the entire thing.
@silversouljones6891
@silversouljones6891 4 месяца назад
“And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭16‬:‭32‬ ‭ Why did you skip the previous verse? Are you seeking truth or validation?
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 4 месяца назад
@@silversouljones6891 You want to play it that way? Then please answer this about verse 31. 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household.” Are you telling me that all someone has to do is "believe in Jesus and you will be saved"? What does "believing in Jesus" constitute in full? Where is anything mentioned about repentance in that verse, or do you not think that this is something that you need to do to be saved? What about faith without works, is that a living or dead faith according to Scripture? No works are mentioned in verse 31 either. So you see, just because no infants and children are mentioned as being baptized in those particular "households", surely doesn't prevent them from being included in the "whole household", REGARDLESS of whether some of the household was able to hear and understand the WORD proclaimed to them beforehand. Do you actually think that if a man and women accepted Christ and brought their infants and children to Paul to be baptized, he would reject baptism for the infant and children and only baptize the two adults?
@silversouljones6891
@silversouljones6891 4 месяца назад
yes all you have to do is have faith in Jesus and you will be saved. Repentance is part of having faith in Jesus. You repent from your sins and confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and trust in His death on the cross and resurrection as the payment for your sins and salvation. As indicated they preached the gospel to the members of his household. Infants don’t have faith, but children can. Don’t lump them together as if a 12 year old is the same as a 2 day old.
@silversouljones6891
@silversouljones6891 4 месяца назад
There are children who study astrophysics. Children can have understanding. But an infant would have no idea what was being said. Faith results in works. If you truly believe something, you are going to do something. Hence the faith without works is dead. It’s not real faith it’s just speechplay. The thief on the cross had no works. He only had faith and that day he was saved. After they preached the Word to the jailer you see good works follow. You posted it YOURSELF- “And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭16‬:‭33‬-‭34‬ ‭ There it is he and all his house believed. Infants do not have faith in the Gospel.
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time Stamp 19:13 Can babies understand language? The crowds heard the apostles in there own language Acts 2:6
@SymphonyZach
@SymphonyZach 3 года назад
They can understand tone but not language. If you scream happy things at a baby they’re gonna cry.
@Ellie-wf9sq
@Ellie-wf9sq 9 месяцев назад
Just to add something from the paedobaptist perspective, I find it interesting that your advice to someone who was baptized as a believer but then fell away and wants to be baptized again (towards the end of the video) is that they may just need to “finally accept that jesus is enough and that they are forgiven, and not be hanging it on this outward sign”. This is how I feel every time a Baptist tells me I need to get re-baptized b/c I was baptized as a baby. I’ve brought this issue to the Lord in prayer several times, and this is what the Lord always tells me. Please consider that if indeed you are wrong, and if indeed Christ does not require that baptism be “for believers only by full immersion”, but that there is liberty in this area since there is no such explicit command, that you have been counseling people to add a work of man to their salvation, and have been binding their consciences by man-made rules rather than by spirit-filled obedience to Christ. I have no problem with churches practicing believers baptism. What I do have a problem with is one particular church claiming that they have the “right formula” and everyone else needs to follow their lead. This is akin to Catholics claiming they are the one true church and we all need to submit to the pope. Ironically, they would recognize both my baptism and yours as valid! Every time I have brought this to the Lord in prayer he has shown me 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 and Ephesians 4:4-6. Please pray about whether your teaching on baptism violates these verses on church unity. Praying that God brings us to unity, and that He convicts me if I’m wrong 🙏💜
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 месяцев назад
Only the first baptism is relevant. Rebaptism is meaningless and could be sinful by rejecting the first baptism
@Ellie-wf9sq
@Ellie-wf9sq 5 месяцев назад
Yes exactly! Or to put it another way, if we can only baptize people the way that we see the disciples doing it in the new testament, nowhere in the NT do we see anyone who was baptized as a believer by full immersion getting re-baptized because they weren't really committed to Christ the first time they were baptized. Therefore rebaptism is not Biblical and should not be done. But if someone whos baptism was done when they weren't fully committed to Christ shouldn't be rebaptized, then that means either: 1. they can never be properly baptized (which I think we would all agree is false), or 2. they should not be re-baptized and the original baptism was valid, even though their commitment, knowledge, etc. of what it meant to follow Christ was lacking at the time. Therefore, the validity of a baptism does not depend on the commitment, knowledge, etc. of the person being baptized. Therefore infant baptism is valid or, 3. they need to be rebaptized to gain a proper batism and the original assumption that we can only baptize people in ways that are explicitly mentioned in the Biblical text is wrong. In which case, we can baptize babies even though we don't see any examples of this happening in the Biblical text. Believer's baptism is a self-refuting position. This kind of thinking leads to all sorts of funky anabaptist theology that, interestingly, I think most baptists would reject (no cars in the NT? no electricity? better make some life changes!), so why stick to this one and not the others?@@geoffjs
@reptilianflizzy497
@reptilianflizzy497 2 года назад
Wouldn’t the inability to repent also affect mentally challenged people? Should they also not be baptized?
@belovedray
@belovedray 4 года назад
Here's my thing: 1. I was taught, and continue to see merit, that you don't/can't receive the baptism of fire until you receive the baptism of water. 2. I was baptised as an infant and only as an infant (my mother was Catholic. I've never had any other baptism. 3. I have most definitely received the baptism of fire. I am filled with Holy Spirit. I am able to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Is there merit for infant baptism in this? Is the first fact incorrect?
@belovedray
@belovedray 4 года назад
It's come to be my understanding that infant baptism involves the parents, as the authority over the child, make this claim of belief on behalf of the infant with faith that the child will continue to walk in the covenant.
@85bbenjaminfan
@85bbenjaminfan 4 года назад
@@belovedray You would be correct in this. I'm a Lutheran and that is a very important part of our baptism. In the Lutheran faith, in order for an infant to undergo baptism, the parents give a vow, as well as the congregation as a whole, to teach the child to walk in the ways of Christ and to encourage them in the faith. Even though infant baptism may not be Biblical, I do believe it is a practice that can help a person who is involved in a faith community, so long as said community is truly committed to encouraging them
@ImCarolB
@ImCarolB 4 года назад
I disagree, from my own experience, that the baptism of the holy spirit can only follow water baptism. I repented and received the forgiveness of sin from the Lord. I began to follow Him as a disciple and wanted to have more of his Holy Spirit in my life. That he did. It made me want to be baptised in water as the outward sign of my new life in Christ. I am not confused in any way by the order of these events, although I have had people say (including one pastor) that the Bible says, "Repent, be baptised, and filled with the Holy Spirit", ie. in that order.
@givethanks6714
@givethanks6714 3 года назад
Cornelius in Acts 10 was filled/baptized with the Holy Spirit before water baptism. So they should be careful with black and white thinking there.
@kkdoc7864
@kkdoc7864 3 года назад
I think circumcision always had to be done to infants because that procedure becomes a more painful and dangerous operation as they age.Actually, having that done has great hygienic ramifications. God often asked His people to do things that were “unusual” at the time , but had beneficial effects. I was baptized as an infant as a catholic and again as a non catholic adult.
@sleppynoggin8808
@sleppynoggin8808 2 года назад
Adults were circumcised after converting to judaism sometimes with rocks as an adult, just like infants are baptised who are born into Christianity and adults are baptised after converting, this is the same way as the old covenant was, we present the sacrifice of Jesus to the Father in Holy communion aswell the same way as jews sacrificed animals to God, the new covenant is the completed covenant of God, the completed promise to adam aberham and all the patriarchs. Saint Paul says baptism is “the new circumcision” why would we not mimic the way circumcision was with baptism. I got rebaptised as an adult i was baptised as a baby, i am thankful i was baptised as a baby because the more i look back at my life the more i see Gods grace through my baptism still working, i was convicted of my sin much more i feel then unbaptised people are, i am convinced it has something to do with recieving the Holy Spirit when i was baptised as a baby.
@kkdoc7864
@kkdoc7864 2 года назад
@@sleppynoggin8808 Never ever resacrifice Christ. Scripture tells us by ONE sacrifice FOREVER we are forgiven. That was a practice of the OLD Covenant, which was the sacrificing of animals that could never pay the price. The mass is definitely an act of heresy.
@sleppynoggin8808
@sleppynoggin8808 2 года назад
@@kkdoc7864 you ignored all my points on pedobaptism and focused on the sacrifice of the mass using a straw man argument, we are simply presenting the sacrifice of Jesus to the Father NOT resacrificing Jesus. if Jesus’ sacrifice was not sufficent we would still have to sacrifice animals. Jesus is present in the Eucharist, this has been affirmed by scripture, the Church fathers and extrabiblical mairacles involving the host bleeding, turning into a beating heart muscle, people not believing Jesus is present taking the Body and Blood in the divine liturgy tasting blood. If that is not proof enough for you then there is no possible evidence that could convince you of this
@kkdoc7864
@kkdoc7864 2 года назад
@@sleppynoggin8808 He is NOT present in a piece of bread. He said that the things he was telling the apostles were”spiritual” that the flesh counted for nothing. No human being can call down Almighty God from his throne to be present holed up in a tiny tabernacle as scripture also tells us. These “miracles” you are talking about are demonic. God does not do that and Mary apparitions are the same. You know that based on the very words they say that conflict with the Bible. If Mary knew people were worshipping (venerating giving her God attributes), she would be absolutely horrified. And you must be more discerning and use the common sense you were given instead of spitting back whatever the RCC tells you. Read Trent and find out that the RCC is definitely offering up Jesus again and again for PROPITIATION. Do you understand what that means? . Infant baptism was clearly addressed in this video. Why do I need to add more? Salvation is dependent on FAITH which newborns do not have. And it’s only the RCC and Lutherans (which came from the same cloth) think it washes away original sin when it’s actually used as a ritual without substance and not supported by scripture in that setting. .
@sleppynoggin8808
@sleppynoggin8808 2 года назад
@@kkdoc7864 give me scriptural evidence that it is a symbol. Saint Paul says to examine yourself before partaking and that you profane the Body and Blood of the Lord if you partake unworthily, he also says that anyone who partakes without decerning the Body eats and drinks judgement on himself. Now why would you profane the Lords body and blood and eat and drink judgement on yourself if it was just a symbol? 1 corinthians 11:27-30
@friedrichrubinstein2346
@friedrichrubinstein2346 2 года назад
My parents baptized me when I was 2.5 months old. I don't think I had faith at that age. When I was 4 years old I made the willful decision to give my life to Jesus Christ but I didn't get baptized again. When I was about around 12 years old my family switched to another church (for various reasons) and the elders there denied me Communion because I was baptized as an infant only (interestingly they granted my parents Communion although both of them are also baptized as infants only; apparently you can't be trusted on your beliefs when you're just 12). To this day I didn't get baptized again though, my conscience never stressed me about it. And although there were times in my life that I wasn't a "good" Christian I still (or again) firmly put my faith in Jesus. I think when you got baptized as a little child it is a personal decision whether you want to be baptized again later. Infant baptism isn't necessarily invalid. Listen to your conscience.
@user-xg7lo6hw8r
@user-xg7lo6hw8r 6 месяцев назад
Isn’t it strange that the answer to this question isn’t explicit in the scriptures. Doesn’t that go against sola scriptural.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 месяцев назад
Of course, but they’re not honest enough to acknowledge that, see the damage that sola Scriptura does
@ShummyAntony
@ShummyAntony 6 месяцев назад
*Why baptize the infants ?* Paul paralleled baptism and circumcision, which was *normally administered to children eight days after birth.* Also note that, it's not common sense to believe that all the families mentioned in the BIBLE had only adult members. Col 2:11-12: “In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” To Corinthians, Paul recalled that just as all the Jews of the Exodus (including children) were baptised into Moses by passing through the Red Sea, they were actually being blessed by Christ. 1 Cor 10:1-4: “I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all of them were baptised into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. All ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was the Christ.” Following are the biblical verses in which we see that the whole household got baptized: 1). Acts 2:38-39: Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far away, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to him.” 2). Acts 11:13-14: He told us how he had seen the angel standing in his house and saying, “Send to Joppa and bring Simon, who is called Peter; he will give you a message by which you and your entire household will be saved.” 3). Acts 16:15: When she (Lydia from the city of Thyatira) and her household were baptised...” 4). Acts 16:30-33: Then he (the jailer) brought them (Paul and Silas) out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They answered, "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household”. At the same hour of the night he took them and washed their wounds; then he and his entire family were baptised without delay. 5). Acts 18:8: Crispus, the official of the synagogue, became a believer in the Lord, together with all his household; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul became believers, and were baptised. 6). 1 Cor 1:16: Paul said, “I did baptise also the household of Stephanas.”
@johnv3788
@johnv3788 6 месяцев назад
The whole household may have had infants, but as Mike pointed out they did not "receive" or "believe" or "repent" and be baptized as the scriptures say.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 месяцев назад
@@johnv3788Strange how they avoid Jesus Jn 3:5 be baptised, no qualification
@johnv3788
@johnv3788 5 месяцев назад
@@geoffjs Does John 3:5 refer to baptism? I'm not sure it does, although I think Catholics might believe otherwise.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 месяцев назад
@@johnv3788Funny how Protestants twist the word of God Jn 3 1-5. Wasn’t Jesus baptised Jn 13-15 as an example? See what personal interpretation does?
@monicapoole2115
@monicapoole2115 5 лет назад
Infant baptism is like infant dedication. It isn't salvation, but rather a commitment from parents to raise a child in a way that would introduce them to faith. My parents are Catholic. When I didn't baptized my infants, I told them about the dedication and this settled any concerns, at least for my parents. I'm not an authority but since this dedication/baptism seems to settle arguments, I feel there is a parallel that can be drawn.
@georgepenton808
@georgepenton808 5 лет назад
Monica, actually, our Holy Mother the Catholic Churches teaches that infant Baptism is far more than just a dedication. It is the supernatural rebirth of the baby---the baby is born again and now is in the state of sanctifying grace and now has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The baby is incorporated into Christ and is now a member of the Church. "Suffer the little children to come unto me," said Jesus at Matthew 19:14.
@evieulici897
@evieulici897 Год назад
Haven’t watched this video yet but this week I watched a great debate about this on apologia studios
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time stamp 20:44. Why dose a baby need to make a d decision? Can they not just receive a gift from the Almighty? Matthew 19:13-15
@LoveYourNeighbour.
@LoveYourNeighbour. 5 лет назад
I think baptism is appropriate for people who are OLD ENOUGH to understand & BELIEVE the Gospel. And who are able to make the CONSCIOUS CHOICE to accept Jesus as Lord & Savior. Infants are definitely NOT old enough to understand & make that decision. That's MY view, anyway.
@SSGwattedge
@SSGwattedge 5 лет назад
I agree
@goldenalt3166
@goldenalt3166 5 лет назад
You're babies go to hell and there's nothing you can do about it. The anti-biblical apologetics against this is what first made me realize Christianity wasn't true.
@OleT967
@OleT967 5 лет назад
Who can say they understand God or the gospel? Who dear to be that arrogant?
@goldenalt3166
@goldenalt3166 5 лет назад
@@OleT967 if you don't understand, then how can you possibly follow it?
@goldenalt3166
@goldenalt3166 5 лет назад
@Matt H How about you work together with other believers and determine what the actual truth is and once you all agree, I'll take a look. Mike Winger is well on his way to proving every other Christian is wrong. They just need to accept his criticism.
@cezjan1997
@cezjan1997 5 лет назад
I, as a Catholic, believe in the necessity of baptism for salvation (for which there is actually good biblical evidence) and therefore also am for infant baptism. We don't really know what happens to the children who die without baptism, however we hope the also receive the grace of God since they have not commited any personal sin. That being said, it is still better for them to be baptized, since we can not be sure and when they first become conscious and exposed to sin, there's already God's grace and Holy Spirit working in their lives. I still enjoyed your video and think you have good points. I will check out other content of yours. God bless you!
@cezjan1997
@cezjan1997 5 лет назад
@@micahmiss I didn't know that, do you mean the fact that people cannot be baptized again? Because adults who are not baptized and come to the Catholic church are actually also required to do that.
@micahmiss
@micahmiss 5 лет назад
@@cezjan1997 Yes, so here in South Africa, for example, we have the Dutch Reformed Church, and they actually excommunicate members from their church who get baptised as adults since they actively advocate against a 'second' adult baptism of the believer. New converts can get 'sprinkled' with water but fully emersed adult baptism as practiced by John the Baptist and during the NT is prohibited.
@cezjan1997
@cezjan1997 5 лет назад
@@micahmiss while I get the point for not allowing the second baptism, it feels completely irrational to me to not count the full immersion baptism as valid (to be honest I wish the Catholic church practiced that more often). This is very much news to me
@georgepenton808
@georgepenton808 5 лет назад
Cezjan1997, the Catholic Church teaches that unbaptized babies who die as babies go to a place called Limbo, a place of peace and natural happiness where there is no pain or suffering. It's a lot like Heaven, and in fact the only difference is that the souls in Limbo never get to see God face to face. It is commonly stated that Limbo is a theory and not a doctrine but that is not true. Several popes and councils have defined it as doctrine. Google "Limbo" and you will see a list of these popes and councils.
@sandina2cents779
@sandina2cents779 5 лет назад
@@georgepenton808 another made-up place by the Catholic church just like purgatory absolutely no biblical, scriptural ground to stand on.
@jeremylakenes6859
@jeremylakenes6859 Год назад
What if we changed every word baptism to mean, “identify” Identify with Moses, identify as forgiven, identify/introduce them to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
@CynHicks
@CynHicks 3 года назад
That baby is adorable. My cheek pinchers are very overactive right now.
@akimoetam1282
@akimoetam1282 3 года назад
IRENAEUS “He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age” (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]). “‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]” (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]). HIPPOLYTUS “Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them” (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]). ORIGEN “Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous” (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]). “The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit” (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]). CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE “As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born” (Letters 58:2 [A.D. 253]). “If, in the case of the worst sinners and those who formerly sinned much against God, when afterwards they believe, the remission of their sins is granted and no one is held back from baptism and grace, how much more, then, should an infant not be held back, who, having but recently been born, has done no sin, except that, born of the flesh according to Adam, he has contracted the contagion of that old death from his first being born. For this very reason does he [an infant] approach more easily to receive the remission of sins: because the sins forgiven him are not his own but those of another” (ibid., 58:5). GREGORY OF NAZIANZUS “Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood. From his most tender age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Do you fear the seal [of baptism] because of the weakness of nature? Oh, what a pusillanimous mother and of how little faith!” (Oration on Holy Baptism 40:7 [A.D. 388]). “‘Well enough,’ some will say, ‘for those who ask for baptism, but what do you have to say about those who are still children, and aware neither of loss nor of grace? Shall we baptize them too?’ Certainly [I respond], if there is any pressing danger. Better that they be sanctified unaware, than that they depart unsealed and uninitiated” (ibid., 40:28). JOHN CHRYSOSTOM “You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors [it bestows]! For this reason we baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members” (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388]). AUGUSTINE “What the universal Church holds, not as instituted [invented] by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority. Since others respond for children, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:24:31 [A.D. 400]). “The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic” (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]). “Cyprian was not issuing a new decree but was keeping to the most solid belief of the Church in order to correct some who thought that infants ought not be baptized before the eighth day after their birth. . . . He agreed with certain of his fellow bishops that a child is able to be duly baptized as soon as he is born” (Letters 166:8:23 [A.D. 412]). “By this grace baptized infants too are ingrafted into his [Christ’s] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. Christ, in whom all are made alive . . . gives also the most hidden grace of his Spirit to believers, grace which he secretly infuses even into infants. . . . It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ’s Body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture, too. . . . If anyone wonders why children born of the baptized should themselves be baptized, let him attend briefly to this. . . . The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:9:10; 1:24:34; 2:27:43 [A.D. 412]). COUNCIL OF CARTHAGE V “Item: It seemed good that whenever there were not found reliable witnesses who could testify that without any doubt they [abandoned children] were baptized and when the children themselves were not, on account of their tender age, able to answer concerning the giving of the sacraments to them, all such children should be baptized without scruple, lest a hesitation should deprive them of the cleansing of the sacraments. This was urged by the [North African] legates, our brethren, since they redeem many such [abandoned children] from the barbarians” (Canon 7 [A.D. 401]). COUNCIL OF MILEUM II “[W]hoever says that infants fresh from their mothers’ wombs ought not to be baptized, or say that they are indeed baptized unto the remission of sins, but that they draw nothing of the original sin of Adam, which is expiated in the bath of regeneration . . . let him be anathema [excommunicated]. Since what the apostle [Paul] says, ‘Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so passed to all men, in whom all have sinned’ [Rom. 5:12], must not be understood otherwise than the Catholic Church spread everywhere has always understood it. For on account of this rule of faith even infants, who in themselves thus far have not been able to commit any sin, are therefore truly baptized unto the remission of sins, so that that which they have contracted from generation may be cleansed in them by regeneration” (Canon 3 [A.D. 416]).
@albusai
@albusai 2 года назад
Those guys are not infallible, scripture is
@drendaparfitt7417
@drendaparfitt7417 2 года назад
I see you are NOT quoting the Bible but quoting a bunch of unknown people. My faith comes from the Bible and my pastor. Christ is head of the church and not a heiroc
@drendaparfitt7417
@drendaparfitt7417 2 года назад
Oops and not a pope, bishops etc.
@kylec8950
@kylec8950 5 лет назад
Baptisms by "dunking" is also not in the Bible. All the Baptisms in the Old Covenant were by sprinkling as well as the new.
@kylec8950
@kylec8950 5 лет назад
@Goldstein All of the sprinklings in the Old Testament, and there were tons of them are "Baptisms" according to Hebrews 9:10. Not "dunking"
@kylec8950
@kylec8950 5 лет назад
@Goldstein You're right just because its the word "immerse" it does not mean submersion. You can immerse something by sprinkling or pouring. Good point.
@burnhags2572
@burnhags2572 5 лет назад
Kyle C you cannot be this ignorant. Sprinkling immersion are two different things when it rains it doesn’t immerse it may sprinkle it may pour. Goldstein is correct you’re just trying to justify your wrong he presented the correct answer and you still won’t accept it. Get over yourself you conceded proud person that’s why pride is a sin.
@burnhags2572
@burnhags2572 5 лет назад
Kyle C Hebrew 9-10 is not about baptism
@kylec8950
@kylec8950 5 лет назад
@Goldstein Sorry. All of the Biblical Baptisms are done by sprinkling. There is not one case of baptisms by "dunking".
@tarikR.R.5120
@tarikR.R.5120 4 года назад
Have you ever heard of Servus Christi or listen to his RU-vid channel??
@ReyWho
@ReyWho 4 года назад
Yes, what about him?
@ImCarolB
@ImCarolB 4 года назад
That poor man! So filled with hate and poison. It is one thing to offer correction through the teachings of Christ, but another to make a life of attacking others. Pray for him.
@reformedcatholic457
@reformedcatholic457 3 года назад
Stay away from Servus Christi
@joshuavandernoord6912
@joshuavandernoord6912 5 лет назад
Hey Mike. Do you think you could make a video responding to Pinecreeks argument that the case for Mormonism works just as well with the minimal facts argument. For example both had martyrs and miracle claims and if we should doubt the Mormon view or accept it.
@MikeWinger
@MikeWinger 5 лет назад
That sounds like a fun video. They only seem similar if we ignore all the details and pretend. Some people suffer from parallelomania where similarities are exaggerated and differences are ignored in an attempt to strawman the case for Christianity.
@joshuavandernoord6912
@joshuavandernoord6912 5 лет назад
Mike Winger sweet. I’d love to see a video going into more detail on this. God bless brother
@GS-tw5gk
@GS-tw5gk Год назад
I was baptized when I was a child (catholic parents). As a grownup I received the revelation of who Jesus is and the faith to believe in Him by his grace and I publicly demonstrated it when I was 26. It was my decision to open up to God so He gave me faith! While child I have no idea of who Jesus was, so was my parent decision and not mine. I confessed Jesus as my saviour and Lord when I understood who he was!
@padraicmkelly
@padraicmkelly 3 года назад
Baptism includes the gift of the Holy Spirit and scripture shows that even unborn babies can receive the Holy Spirit, none other than St John the BAPTIST. Titus 3:5 5 he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Luke 1: 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He shall never take wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. Luke 1: 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43 And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me? 44 For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leaped for joy.
@missange6735
@missange6735 Год назад
And John was never baptised.
@padraicmkelly
@padraicmkelly Год назад
@@missange6735 didn't he say that Jesus should have baptised him? But anyway baptism is primarily the gift of the Holy Spirit and John the Baptist received the gift of the Holy Spirit 'even from his mother's womb'.
@roadcaster9801
@roadcaster9801 5 лет назад
Love your videos btw and not being picky but have a small disagreement with one point made about 1 Cor 7 , divorce and using it to counter Hebrew roots: I hope thats what the comments section is for. The comparison is not there in my opinion as God was telling his people (Israel) who had disobeyed him in not being a set apart people, to divorce their pagan unbelieving wives. 1 Cor 7 is talking about someone who is already married and then gets saved. This is surely different. Scripture is clear a believer is not to marry an unbeliever. To do so is sin and needs to be repented off, just as in the OT. Now if a stranger had joined themselves to Israel, already married, then that would be a fairer comparison but I'm not sure that's in scripture but I imagine the same principle would apply because from my study NT doctrine does not contradict old. After all, all scripture is profitable for doctrine.
@JuanHernandez-oj8qh
@JuanHernandez-oj8qh 4 месяца назад
I do like the way u break down the wording
@reinedaze
@reinedaze 5 лет назад
Mike, I've watched most everything you've published here and have been on the same page as you. However, I have a hard time believing your view is correct on this one. While making an informed decision to choose Jesus isn't a works thing, it certainly says that I have a part in my salvation. Which, I believe I do not. I cannot even say that I came to Jesus on my own. I merely "stood still" long enough for the Spirit to work in me.
@seana1190
@seana1190 5 лет назад
Indeed, Salvation is unconditional and only possible by God's grace and goodwill, however, every gift has an irrefutable condition as well; it must be accepted.
@ThatReadingGuy28
@ThatReadingGuy28 5 лет назад
So what happens if the baptized child isn’t apart of the elect?
@Madhatter675
@Madhatter675 5 лет назад
Isaiah Armstrong well that depends on your view of Calvinism, whether it is biblical or not?
@Madhatter675
@Madhatter675 5 лет назад
So did you accept the gift of grace or did the holy spirit convict you to accept the gift against your will??
@oracleoftroy
@oracleoftroy 5 лет назад
@@ThatReadingGuy28 In Romans 6, Paul associates baptism with a death and resurrection in Christs death and resurrection. So the unsaved remain buried in their baptism and under condemnation for their sin, but the saved are risen with Christ in their baptism and so made alive. The same sign applies in both cases.
@sanfords
@sanfords 3 года назад
I had a reformed pastor once that had a son with severe cerebral palsy. He was unable to express any belief in Christ. After years of struggling with the issue he decided he had to accept both pedo and credo baptism as acceptable. Your interpretation of the gospel message leaves baptism for severely handicapped people impossible. Yah, its a toughie.
@CynHicks
@CynHicks 3 года назад
I think you misunderstood completely. That or you listened for 3 min and stopped. Baptism debate aside (water baptism isnt needed.) That child of his is like any small child with a mind of a child.
@ryanteuscher7996
@ryanteuscher7996 4 года назад
Mike what do you do with the verse that says baptism saves us? What does it save us from? Also when the Israelites coming out of Egypt the were baptized through WATER into Moses. Though the were saved through the water they did not all receive the promise because of unbelief. Baptism saved the Israelites from Pharoah and bondage. Same for us baptism saves us from bondage to sin and death but does not guarantee the promise of eternal life through faith.
@albusai
@albusai 2 года назад
Did all the Hebrews that went trough the water were saved ?? 🤔 golden calf??
@ryanteuscher7996
@ryanteuscher7996 2 года назад
@@albusai read what I wrote again. They were all saved from Egypt and bondage. They did not all receive the promise. The promise is Everlasting life.
@mjlgarber
@mjlgarber Год назад
I don’t think the case that the “household” doesn’t include infants is very strong.
@binusamuel8935
@binusamuel8935 4 года назад
This brother needs to study the old testament and needs to understand how a new testament believer is having the same faith of Abraham receives the same benefits. Infants are definitely included in the new testament church. "Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise". That is why we read in Acts the promise is for you and your children.
@josethomas539
@josethomas539 4 года назад
So you mean, infants are saved fron their birth itself.
@Mathetes1
@Mathetes1 9 месяцев назад
The NT Greek noun for infant in Luke 18:15 is βρέφος (brephos), which can refer to an unborn or a newborn child. However, the NT Greek noun for child in Luke 18:16 is παιδίον (paidion), which refers to a young child. Hence Jesus' "Let the little children come to me" should be understood as a reference to young children who are nevertheless old enough to approach Him of their own volition, not to infants who can't.
@johnlatham6164
@johnlatham6164 2 года назад
So in the winger household your infants are not apart of your household?
@MikeWinger
@MikeWinger 2 года назад
It’s almost like you didn’t understand my point.
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 Год назад
@@MikeWinger What is your point?
@TriciaPerry-ef7bi
@TriciaPerry-ef7bi 9 месяцев назад
​@@jzak5723babies can't have faith can't believe. So it is I Ridiculous to even do it. Catholic Church is wrong and biblical ignorant..
@mattreoli5006
@mattreoli5006 11 месяцев назад
In response to the Philippian jailer passage, are we going to walk by the fact that they were ALL baptized, but it only states that HE believed (v. 34)? Additionally, it says that HE rejoiced, with his whole household. (Now I'm not saying that this was merely a party of one, but the text is clearly saying that the rejoicing is mainly on his own part. Could it not have simply been a banquet/party, something that was common in the first century, but now this was a banquet dedicated to Jesus?) In fact, for both the jailer and Cornelius, the emphasis is always on, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you [singular] will be saved, you [singular] and all your household" (v. 31; cf. Acts 11:14). At the very least, the patriarchs of the family (or, in Lydia's case, the matriarch, either because her husband was no longer a part of the family or was still alive) were baptized along with their entire household, regardless of what THEY believed (the text not saying that infants weren't present), and are thus made members of the covenant community of Jesus. This isn't a foreign concept to the first century context because, especially in Greco-Roman culture, the patriarch of the family decided what god would be worshiped in the family. Thus, the jailer or Cornelius or Lydia being baptized along with their entire household arguably demonstrates this same idea, which isn't an act of works but actually an act of faith. Paul and Peter preaching to those respective households does not mean that the whole household believed (in fact, the text doesn't indicate that at all). Rather, it is Paul and Peter relaying the story of Jesus in the Gospel to this family, telling them what following Jesus is all about. The believing parent is to therefore raise their family up in the faith. This is what Paul points to when he talks about how the children of at least one believing parent are "holy," or "set apart" (1 Cor. 7:14). How were they set apart? What act literally proclaimed a setting apart from the world? Their baptism. This, alongside the comparison to how Israelites were to raise their own children, circumcising their sons, is compelling to me. Their circumcision was the physical marker of their membership in the covenant family of Israel, yet they did not have faith even though circumcision was a sign of God's covenant with Abraham (which was ALWAYS predicated by FAITH). My point is not to magically insert infants into the passages; whether they were or not is actually irrelevant. My point is that the parents, particularly the believing fathers, were to raise their children in the discipline and instruction of the Lord (Eph. 6:4, Deut. 6:4-7), and they eventually come to faith. I love your stuff (your "Women in Ministry" series was great), by the way! Keep up the good work, brother.
@barelyprotestant5365
@barelyprotestant5365 5 лет назад
Thanks for the talk! I think that a few issues should be cleared up: 1) First, there is a fundamentally different understanding of what Baptism is and does. Pastor Mike argues that it's a representation of dying to Christ, or a public profession of one's Faith. Nowhere does Scripture argue that. Romans 6, in no uncertain terms, claims we are united to the Death of Christ in Baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 claims that Baptism saves as a Covenantal Sign (signs aren't symbols, by the way; a symbol merely represents something; a sign is also what it signifies. A road sign is the law and shows the law. The symbol of a car on that sign is not, itself, the car). 2) Infant Baptism Christians are working on a fundamentally different understanding of what it means to be the Church and a Christian. Stanley Hauerwas said it best: "Evangelicals think that they have a relationship with God that they go to church to express, when I think it should be just the opposite. I can't know my relationship with God apart from my fellowship with my brothers and sisters." We understand that the Communal is primary over the Individual, so when it comes to Ecclesiology and even Soteriology, we look at the fact that we are being joined to those things (the Church and Salvation) rather than us receiving them merely as individuals. This is why you had a difficult time understanding Covenantal Theology, and why I imagine you'd have a hard time understanding Sacramental Theology. 3) You kept arguing that "babies can't XYZ (believe, listen, repent, respond, etc.)". But Scripture doesn't seem to indicate that. Luke 1:39-45 shows that St. John the Baptist leapt for joy at the approach of His Savior. 2 Timothy 3:15 demonstrates that St. Timothy knew the Scriptures from infancy: "from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." (the word translated to "childhood" here is "brephos", which literally means "unborn or newborn child".) So Scripture does not seem to have the problem with children believing or reacting in ways that our modernist minds find unbelievable. 4) Whenever someone argues about the Early Church believing something, I don't think they are arguing, "I know the Bible says this, but the Early Church believed that, so I'm instead going to believe that." At least, that's never what I am arguing. We look to the Early Church because we think that they would know better than we do, because they literally were taught the Faith from the Apostles or people who knew the Apostles. A few particular points of clarification: a) There was no debate about Infant Baptism. The closest you get to that is Gnostic heretics denying it (who denied the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I might add) and Tertullian claiming that we shouldn't baptize babies until they are 3 years old; his reasoning for that is utterly different from yours, as he argues they should delay baptism because infants sin and you can't be forgiven for sins committed after baptism. If you want to include one man arguing that we should delay baptism until 8 days old because of circumcision (still an infant obviously), be my guest. b) The gentleman arguing about 1500 years of Church History wasn't arguing from today to 1500 years ago; he was arguing from the first century to the Protestant Reformation, where the Radical Reformers rejected infant baptism ("radical" is not an insult here; that is what they are known as). c) Your response to my point about the women receiving Communion was interesting; I noticed that you were okay assuming that women were parts of crowds, but not children or infants. I know that you spent a lot of time arguing that infants were ignored in those passages, but I refer you again to St. John the Baptist in the womb and St. Timothy from the womb or as a newborn. Anyways, I'm hoping to do a video response to this to clarify some of these points, or possibly a podcast. I know, Pastor Mike, that you said you can't do debates right now, so I hope this doesn't come across as me trying to spite you. This is an important topic for me, as a former Baptist. God bless you for your work for the Kingdom, brother!
@UltraX34
@UltraX34 5 лет назад
Hey man, I see you everywhere! I currently do affirm believers' Baptism but i think the arguments for infant baptism are definitely very strong. Appreciate your perspective. I am *this* close to becoming Anglican cause, as an anglican, you can be some level of reformed/evangelical, charismatic, and, obviously, sacramental. That's literally the trajectory I'm on so if someone could truly convince me I'd be one pretty quick.
@barelyprotestant5365
@barelyprotestant5365 5 лет назад
@@UltraX34, I highly recommend my podcast, called (what else? but) Barely Protestant. We have Facebook and Instagram pages as well. I'm also looking at putting videos up on RU-vid consistently. Also, if you have questions you can contact me barelyprotestant@gmail.com
@seana1190
@seana1190 5 лет назад
Points 1&2 fit into the same category so I'll address them simultaneously. To briefly sum up the problem, you're failing to see the fundamental requirement and necessity of faith. Look no further than Col 2: 12 and Gal 3: 26-27. You go on to speak of how Communal is primary and that one is unable to know their relationship with God w/out it, but I cry FOUL. Review 1 Cor 8: 3 and Gal 4: 9 and we see that, Until a person loves God, or Until a person is IN Christ, they aren't known by Him, therefore, incapable of having a relationship with Him. Simply put, it's quite impossible to have a spiritual relationship with Christ until one affirms faith In Him. Point 3: Are you seriously using Luke 1: 39-45? Honestly, common. Simply go back a few verses, starting at 1: 7; they had no child, Elizabeth was barren, and they were both very old. John's conception and birth were miraculous, and not only that, he would also receive the HS in the womb. Further, another miracle occurred when Gabriel muted Zacharias until John's birth. Let's not forget, John would later be fulfilling prophecy in Isa 40: 35. My point? John falls into the category of, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Prophets, the Oracle of God, the bloodline, and the direct purposes of God to fulfill the coming of the Messiah. Point 3 continued. In 2 Tim 3: 15, "brephos" is not obligated to be used in the literal sense of an unborn fetus or child. Take a peak at 1 Pet 2: 2 where the author is describing Christians as newborn babes, who want pure milk so that they can mature and grow. Now back to 2 Tim 3: 15; what's able to make you wise for salvation? "THROUGH FAITH and IN CHRIST" (same as my very 1st paragraph) , the scriptures will help you grow and mature. Then onto verses 16-17 which show us instructions and being equipped, again, something which in context harmonizes perfectly with someone maturing and growing from the beginning, when they were a newborn Christian babe ("brephos").
@UltraX34
@UltraX34 5 лет назад
@@barelyprotestant5365 bro! I just found your podcast. I think imma enjoy it.
@barelyprotestant5365
@barelyprotestant5365 5 лет назад
@@seana1190 I may or may not give a full response here. I plan on actually making a response video to Pastor Mike's, which will deal with all of this in depth.
@jadewar
@jadewar 4 года назад
Winger's main point is that infants do not have the ability to repent because they have no knowledge of sin. In other words, they cannot have faith and belief because they haven't matured enough to understand what sin, repentance, faith and belief entail. Unfortunately, this ignores the biblical evidence to the contrary. For a good and short summary of this perspective on RU-vid, see Bryan Wolfmueller "Can Babies Believe in Jesus."
@vinciblegaming6817
@vinciblegaming6817 3 года назад
Come to me as a child isn’t a silly defense of baptism if the opposite side conflated water baptism with Holy Spirit baptism. I’m stuck on this. I’m a proponent of infant baptism. It isn’t personal, as I have been baptized twice (which is a more explicit Biblical bugaboo than baptizing infant children of believers). One of the biggest issues I have with excluding infant children of believers is that water baptism isn’t what does the lifting in salvation. Belief is. And there are a lot of instances where people are baptized after a “sinners prayer”, fall away, and come back later in life. Were they not truly saved? Must they be baptized again? And if you argue yes, then what about Hebrews and belief in one baptism? In such cases, baptism precedes “true belief”, but what is true belief? Is it full understanding? Or is it blind trust (ala the little children)?
@adama4877
@adama4877 4 года назад
Time stamp in your video 11:57 You sound like you can know what an infant believes? And that they could not believe in the Lord Jesus. Romans 10:17. Can babies hear?
@tayh.6235
@tayh.6235 3 года назад
They can't hear with understanding.
@albusai
@albusai 2 года назад
They hear noises, can’t understand language specially infants 👶
@jzak5723
@jzak5723 3 года назад
Then the little children were brought to Jesus for Him to place His hands on them and pray for them. And the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” If Jesus wanted to lay His hands on the children and pray for them, then obviously they were worthy of being baptized also, its only logical. In other words, the kingdom of heaven already belonged to them as they were, not at some future date when they reach a certain age. So if they were already acceptable to Jesus as they were, then why would someone not baptize them into the New Covenant?
@Akihito007
@Akihito007 4 года назад
The Bible is clear that water baptism doesn't save but is a symbol of the work of the Holy Spirit for salvation just as it replaced circumcision. Reformed covenant theology has already shown and defended how God not only interacts with His individual elect but them and their children as well in covenant faithfulness. Baptism is a sign of grace of God's Covenant with His elect and their posterity JUST as circumcision had been a shadow of that. The early Church believed in and practiced infant baptism for at LEAST the first 300 years. This man needs to read more about Covenant Theology and the early Reformers. John Calvin and the Westminster Confession 28:4 fully defend infant baptism and how Biblical it is. Plus read Genesis 17: 7-14.
@freakkit
@freakkit Год назад
I think this is a good place to talk about age of accountability
@sidhuggins9387
@sidhuggins9387 2 месяца назад
How do you receive the kingdom?
@sidhuggins9387
@sidhuggins9387 2 месяца назад
Nothing says you should, but there are quite a few verses that say condemning traditions should not be done.
@sidhuggins9387
@sidhuggins9387 2 месяца назад
Acts 19:1-7
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