A Case Against Public Education 

Privatizing or removing schools wont help anything though. Schools are needed, there is no real counterargument to this unless you want to ignore social and intellectual benefits. Yes, a lot of things are fire and forget, and the school structure doesnt help this any, but the knowledge is still important while developing, especially since you often wont know what job youre going to go into or what skills you will need until college or later. The school system could use a shift away from standardized testing and work better to meet the needs of individual students, which will be better possible with the advent of computer tech and premade courses, but the moment you go to loony ville and start talking about removing public education, one of the BIGGEST returns on investment for any civilized country (we make more revenue from schools than they cost, by far, because people with an education produce more, are less likely to commit crime etc) then you arent capable of having a real, intellectual discussion.

+freeHorizon Lately I read a quote: "Libertarians are like greek gods. They fight with each other all the time and nobody believes in them." It's probably because talking as a group is totally contradictory to the libertarian mind which is for individualism. Also being collected in a political party is contradictory and absurd somehow. But unfortunately there seems to be no other way in these times, because most people in Europe for example have never ever heard of Libertarianism. And if they have then they think of Ancaps and that it's something extreme left-wing (gah!) others think it's extreme right-wing. Nobody knows about minarcho-libertarianism, nobody about the fine definition lines between neoliberalism, classical liberalism and so on. There's so much nonsense spreaded everywhere - I even discovered a blogger who tries to define concrete rules for a libertarian life: always stay peaceful, eat only vegan food etc I don't know, but I think we need a charismatic leader to whom also liberals, greenies and conservatives can listen to. Do you know a company where we can place that order? ;-)

What would be your alternative way to convince people? I think I remember Milton Friedman saying Government should provide 3 years of schooling. My mother tells me that my grand parents went to school for just one year but they could read and write and do arithmetic. They were educated people who read. They owned a barber shop and some real-estate and sent their son to Brown University.

flotteluft Libertarians can come across as very echo-chamber intellectual and the most common complaint is "impractical". They need to find a way to make their ideas relevant to society in a meaningful way, not just a reactionary "the best way hasnt had a chance to be done yet"

duo1666 I think an education system that emphasizes learning based on Meyers-Briggs, 16 personality, career-specialized education needs to be the future of education, not a generalized "one size fits all" education system we currently have. Unfortunately, most people will agree that most education subjects are necessary...however sad it would be that an artist cant just take more electives that allow them to develop a meaningful life around making creative art, as much as a future enterpreneur would benefit to learn finance and business strategy. I think they really should teach finance, economics, and accounting in schools as electives

I doubt that's the actual reason but yeah it may be a product of it.

Algebra and geometry are both incredibly useful. Calculus is even more useful, but you need a solid understanding of geometry and algebra to apply calculus. Math is not in any way useless, it is supremely useful in most areas of life, people just aren't taught how to apply it properly.

That would be a good idea if only I didn't have to check how much change the cashier gave me.

Most people I know who took algebra and geometry still struggle with basic arithmetic.

takigan mad respect. Really appreciate this comment. Education doesn't always need to be lucrative to be beneficial.

The public school system performs 2 main functions. Babysitting and revenue generation for the local system via state and federal funds. Education is last on the list of the administrators. Most teacher try to teach, but administrators tend to get in their way.

Indeed. He missed a link between "our current system sucks" and "private schools are the better option". But this is because we have explained it ad-nauseam for decades now, and we sometimes make the mistake of assuming others were listening. Some of us know the awful truth: Nobody listens to libertarians. We are boring. Ok, so. Here it is: What most libertarians know is that anything that is funded through taxation and devised at the political level is prone to have the same flaws. Politicians and bureaucrats do not know what the market (actual people) need. So they do not listen to the market signals (those that say where people should invest their efforts), or respond to them when it is already too late (and often inappropriately). This means that a curriculum centrally designed by bureaucrats, and funded regardless of its probability of success, is going to be totally disconnected from reality from the start. Contrastingly, private schools adapt faster as they can design their own curricula on the fly. The ones that do it wrong, will pay a dear price and be forced to change or die, the ones that show success will be imitated or even outmatched pretty soon. And that evolutive process will always be adapted to what people need. As options appear, prices go down. And liberty of teaching gives the incentive for those who feel the need to teach for free, can do so without having to jump through hoops to get permission from the state (forcing prices further down). Moreover, there would be more specialized institutions that would guarantee success in certain areas. And there will surely be a lot more other new markets (There will be competition for school raters. Just imagine how many people will try to tell the world which school is better in what areas. Now think of how these ratings will affect how schools deal with students, parents, and communities). People will vote with their feet or boycott schools that perform horribly. Public schools offer a safe haven for mediocre teachers, and lousy programs. Worse still, they reward being terrible because educators feel they are entitled to your money and your kid´s futures. Private schools have to earn your money and your trust. Thats what Caplan forgot to mention.

A Ton Kinda.. The trouble is, That system is not properly stimulated to maintain the kids's achievement level. Teachers do not get rewarded for anything other than the latest year. Nothing is done to make sure the kids retain their knowledge. Furthermore, nothing is Done to properly update the curriculum. And all that is part and parcel of a system where the public can't vote with their feet. Which is exactly what public system means..

Rikard Nilsson That still isn't useful or efficient. This view is so unlikely to get off the ground it isn't worth worrying about, but it is unlikely for governments to function well for long periods of time.

I think that's a problem with people nowadays they're not thinking rational and logical no common sense in their decision-making no common sense

They call it 'Public Education' in order to mask the reality of what it REALLY is "Socialist/Fascist/Communist Education

Mediocre Professional when you give people control over their education, amazing things can happen. You don’t need to go to school to get an education - especially in today’s world

Of course it's useful but his point holds because you have to target the material for the needs. The vast majority of people I know who learned calculus never used it again

I'm not saying his point doesn't hold. I'm encouraging people to learn calculus. If you never used it again, I'd argue you didn't learn it. You just passed the class. Those are two different things.

I agree that the education of teachers is essential, but the main problem is the system.

Andrew Nunymous I am a senior in High School and I just finished my 2-year college degree as well. I came from a homeschooling background as well. School is inefficient in every way possible. Whatever positive that you can come up with, I can give you ten negatives. The problem is that kids aren't learning anything. It would be fine if there were some algebra and biology classes you have to take if there were classes on how to pay your taxes, drive a vehicle, or any other basic human skill. School is for ABC's, 123's, spelling, arithmetic, history, and basic human knowledge. But that ends after Grade School. Once Middle School comes around, there are quotas, equality, indoctrination, and useless classes. I am for privately funded schools and curriculum tweaked to fit that specific area of the country. Not everyone needs to know the same things after the alphabet, basic math, and history. If we did, nobody would ever need to learn from others because there would be no knowledge to be gained. Plus, companies DO have to teach their employees. I don't care if you graduated top at Harvard in Law, you still wouldn't know how to really do your job until you've been through a few real court cases.

First, you have my heartfelt thanks for the polite and thoughtful reply. I honestly didn’t expect to see anything like that in a youtube comment, and you made me rethink my stance on the issue a bit. I now feel more enlightened on the subject and have you to thank for it. :) Trust me, I know just how broken and backwards the education system is. Yes, there are way too many classes that are pointless for 90% of children. As much as love math, I know that most people could go their entire lives just fine without even knowing what a derivative is. I agree, we need to have ‘common sense/life skill’ classes that teach children things like taxes, and driving. I’d also like to have classes that focus on logic and cognitive biases, which are things I believe everyone DOES need to be aware of, but that’s not the point of this discussion. There are also a wide range of specific problems with how classes are taught that you might not have experienced as a homeschooler. I agree that pretty much every part of the American education system needs an overhaul, but the basic idea of public education doesn’t. Public education, as I believe it exists today (I could be wrong) ensures that every child is given full opportunity to be educated. Yes, there are still a lot of accommodations that should be made for poorer children and aren’t, but that could be part of our magic policy overhaul. The point is that (in theory) every legal child, regardless of background, gets some base level of education. The proposed idea in this video seems to be that schools should be privately funded, and that the government would subsidize low-income families with some kind of 'FAFSA for kids'. Ignoring the huge amount of irregularities and complexities this would add to an already irregular and complex system, isn't this just doing essentially the same thing we're doing already? Everyone is already paying to fund public schools, and so you're going to have us pay to fund private schools instead, along with a small portion of tax money that goes to the children that can't afford private schooling. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that system appears to put the same cost on the average middle-class worker as the current system. I’m not sure what to think about different curricula for different areas. It seems like there would be a few benefits, but there’s also a few problems with different areas teaching different versions of history/science/literature etc., even if only through content selection. Which brings me to indoctrination. Every teacher has their own political views and baggage, and (intentionally or not) everything they teach their students is taught in the context of those views. Yes, this includes homeschooling too. There simply isn’t a way to teach someone without indoctrinating them with your perspective as well. You can encourage self-teachning to lessen this effect, but the student will still look to the teacher for guidance at some point. Also, I have to point out that, while companies do teach their employees, they don’t teach them from the ground up. They don’t have to teach their new lawyer what a plaintiff is, and that was my point. Employers require a certain amount of field knowledge from their new employees, even if there are specifics that can only be learned on the job. This foreknowledge is almost exclusively obtained from universities, and the public education ensures that everyone at least has a shot at getting into a high-level field.

Andrew Nunymous I think the reason he mentions low incone subsidies is that while it does do things similar to now with poor children the school is still at risk of failing. In my school we were having our stats test pushed without notice to my teacher causing him a headache. There are many problems that don't get fixed because there is no pressure to fix them. It is the same with tecaher unions barring many teachers from being fired causing low quality teachers to never improve.

Millions of Students in school have anxiety which pretty much will cause anti-social interactions because they are worried that they’ll be judge by their grades. Every School has bullies and without a doubt 97% of student will most likely experience bullying because Parents don’t take consideration of what their kids are doing in school and it’s a waste of money tax paying money to pay someone’s education even though it is self predicting that they are not gonna graduate High School and/or drop out. That’s the problem, so many students are dropping out of School because they Counselors and Teachers don’t care about it. While Private School WANTS to make sure you graduate. It goes the same as Public School teachers, but what will their incentive be? There is no competition on making teachers put effort into education because they are paid the same as the teacher who does a terrible at teaching physics, Algebra or any topic in general.

Larry Burke meaning you have no rebuttal

gotgunpowder- No

No rebuttal then?

silkhead44 *rote

If you think the school system is so great, why wouldn't you listen to him? What you want, trumps what is right. To say it another way, you example that you care nothing for right or wrong, but only for what you will enjoy. Those like you who vote in political elections are literally criminally insane. For you to think you can give yourself a right you don't have is insane. To actually delegate that right to a group of sociopaths is literally criminally insane. The problem with schools isn't schools per say, it's you.

So you have no problem funding these programs? Great. Make funding voluntary. Don't force me to pay to educate people who end up knowing no more than when they started after they graduate because you like after school programs, that makes no sense.

"children's theater production, or an after school chess club" You are misrepresenting what he said by using these extracurricular examples and I think you are doing it on purpose.

ShopTalk because he's giving a great argument regardless where he's from?

he is a product of him learning. next time, judge an argument by the logic of the argument itself, not the person saying it. it's funny, we can use anything on a person to discredit his arguments, except race.

Just have a look at something like PISA

I live in europe and public school sucks. if you mean finland, sure, but that's not europe, it's finland

Sure, I understand. I was just saying that it's not europe. Those countries put together have 120 million people (80 million is germany alone), but europe has 740 million people, even if you are refering to the european union (excluding countries like russia and turkey...) it's still 510 million.

Yep you are right.