A Case For Postmillennialism 

I guess the definition of truth is "empowering to me"

Cory C, Actually what it is, is his unconscious realization of the dominion mandate. Man is created in the image of God, with the distinct purpose of subduing the world. Christianity is not a passive or escapist religion.

We fight

What I think hes trying to say is that God did destroy the world by water but not the literal earth. The word "World" being used metaphorically for the wicked and sinful.

@@thespiritsearches Paul confirms the literal interpretation of what Peter said in the passage below. Christ will return "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God. 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Yet here we are today, on that same earth that was previously destroyed. I would say that people who think the Earth is going to be destroyed by fire literally think the entire Earth will be dissolved to nothing. Yet in the flood it wasn't. Even then, the righteous (Noah's family) inherited the earth.

I believe after the final judgment it's not just going to be a renovation, but an entire re-creation of the entire universe (Cosmos/Heaven's and Earth) the universe was created out of nothing with intense heat and energy; and God will convert it back into nothing through intense heat and energy, before he re-creates the New.

If the "world perished" literally, WE WOULD NOT BE HERE! All the breathing creatures who did not believe died. God saved a remnant to reformulated. We are that remnant, though many of us have fallen from the truth, and are recreating the situation of Noah's time.

Thanks!!

Millennium Questions: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture? Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on the earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Does an angel with a key open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why does the angel unlock the pit if it was not locked previously? Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11? Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14? If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation chapter 11, where is the beast now? Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (See the bodily resurrection of the two witnesses in Rev. chapter 11.) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5? John 5:24 (Spiritual) John 5:27-30 The bodily resurrection and judgment of “all” the dead. Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24. Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46 ? What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21? Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return? Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15? Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31? Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. How would mortals survive this fire? Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20? Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1? When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18? What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:1-16? Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones? What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief, in 2 Peter 3:1-13? Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation? Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Judgment Before the Great White Throne. Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. .------------------------------------------ Rev_9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. (Based on Revelation 1:20 the word "star" is used as a symbol of angels in the Revelation.) Above we have a reference to an angel with the key to the bottomless pit, just like that in Revelation 20. Rev_9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. (The bottomless pit is opened in the verse above.) Rev_9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (Apollyon means "destroyer") Above we have angels who are already in the bottomless pit. Who is the head angel of the bottomless pit? A summary of Revelation 9 reveals an angel with a key to the bottomless pit, and he opens the bottomless pit. Why did the angel have to use the key to open the bottomless pit, unless it had been locked previously? Is Satan the king of the wicked angels? ................................................. Rev_11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. (Here the beast comes up out of the pit to make war with the witnesses, who based on Revelation 11:4, and Revelation 1:20, and Romans 11, are a symbol of the Church.) Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (Here we have the beast ascending out of the pit again, just like in Revelation 11. Once again, this proves the book is not in chronological order.) Are humans found in the bottomless pit?

What do you do with the fact that the large majority of scholars and historians date the book of revelation at 90-96AD, much after the destruction of the temple in 70AD?

Most history is fabricated. Honestly if I was this type of Christian I would also argue for a post millennia view.

@@johntrevett2944 Thats not possible

@@johntrevett2944 How can it be after 70AD when John is speaking of a temple still standing in Revelation chapter 11 and is also on Patmos in exile during the Reign of Nero before 70AD so how is it after 70AD? It's not please stop reading commentary from folks and go read it for yourself not saying your not but it's clear it's speaking of Jerusalem, temple still standing,Reign of Nero as John was in exile because of Nero and it also speaks of New covenant and old harlot bride and bride of Christ highly recommend you also read Ezekiel

I used to think that also but the verse that changed my thinking is Revelation 20:4-6…. It clearly says when the dead are raised. So thinking of Thess, if the dead are raised first, it’d have to be after the millennium

"'The Lord says to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.' " Psalm 110:1

Thanks for caring to learn :)

Nice copy paste from gotquestions.

@@Zanroff does copy and pasting make what is said somehow invalid? thats foolish

​@@vladgor4099 It make their opinion invalid to me. I'd like to see actual thoughts that deal with the content of the video. Copying and pasting without citing their source is dishonest and only shows one's unwillingness to think through the issue and formulate their own response. So if anyone is foolish in this situation, it's not me.

​@@Zanroff nice ad hominem. You attacked him rather than the words he copy pasted. I wonder if you did that because you don't have a response to the substance of what he copy pasted.

@@pXianXo I'd like to know that the person copying and pasting understands the substance first. If they can't make the arguments in their own words, then they certainly won't listen to anything I could say. It's an appeal to authority.

Wait.... So.... The entire events of Revelation and even the millennium has ALREADY HAPPENED??! what bro?????? But. Satan is still active. People are very sinful and getting a TON worse every year. I don't get it at all bro!

@@coryc1904read psalm 2

@@coryc1904 Postmil is wrong. Premil is the truth

@@coryc1904 Read Kenneth Gentry Jr.'s "The Book of Revelation Made Easy" :)

@@coryc1904 Also, the book " He shall have dominion"

🤔Jeff Durbin Proverbs 6 A proud look does the Lord Hate Think about it And your right about The utopia The pre Trib and Post Trib is false and he's deceiving plenty

Because post-mil isn't based on what is seen in the world. It's based on what is taught in the Bible. If you look at what's going on in the world to determine your eschatology then you are looking in the wrong place.

@@Particularly_John_Gill Well, if your argument from the Bible is that the world is getting better, then how do you handle 2 Tim 3. My point is that if the world is going to get better and usher in the kingdom, then you should be able to look at the world and see that happening in reality, But its not which puts the post-mil position in an awkward spot Biblically and in reality.

It’s important to look at the global church and not to only focus on the USA. The church is actually exploding all over the world! But many people only look at America and assume that if we are struggling that it must be the end.

@@brookbirch I think you miss my point. If post-mil is true, then the world should be vastly different at this point in time than it was in the early church in relation to the affect of the Gospel on the World. The Church is still under heavy persecution in the East, and in the West, namely Europe, it's a spiritual graveyard and is becoming increasingly so here in North America. If post-mil were true, then you should be able to look at the world and see this in reality. It's not about America as much as it is about reality. So out of the 3 primary views of the end times, the Post-mil view is the hardest to defend (and I believe the Amil view is difficult to defend hermeneutically)

@@Bo-gt5do Which is why I am starting to see postmills argue that we are still in the “early church.”

I believe that John 3:16 does mean all who will believe, and who are all who will believe? The ones called and chosen before the beginning of the world. Hope this helps, just my opinion

All the world does not mean God’s elect, it means all the world outside of Israel. It means the Gentiles too. We see the doctrine of election in other places, this does not contradict that.

World means non Jews.

Eschatology is important, but if your pastors are faithful in all other areas, and they have loved and served you well, I would remain with them.

@@RightResponseMinistries Thanks for the input! I tend to agree. I ask because it took my wife and me a long time to find a church we liked, so we don't want to move to another unless it's absolutely necessary.

Just read Revelation 20:4-6, which is very straightforward. Post-millennialism has no biblical support - It is based on a false Strawman misrepresentation of Pre-Millenialism. They falsely claim that Pre-Millennialists don’t believe Christ is reigning on the throne, Now. Then, they get on their high-horse and beat the Strawman that represents exactly NOBODY’s view. That said, I like the fact that Post-Millennialists are excellent at emphasizing that Christians MUST ADVANCE the Kingdom now! This is why I tolerate their bad theology. Pre-Millennialists have a bad habit of missing this clear command from the Great Commission and elsewhere. So, Post-Millennialists are excellent at application, but their theology is in obvious violation of Revelation 20:4-6.

​@@CC-ii3ij Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I will study those verses when I have a chance.

These are not fundamentals to our faith,it should not divide us if this is the only thing you disagree with. Not too many people believe in 100% with their church on things like eschatology or even Calvanisim/Arminianism.

Interesting point.

Right its in the hearts of his people What that means is its not a physical economic and governmental system. Its not of this world. Its of a different kind of kingdom alltogether. Think about it, the great commission is being fulfilled. Over the past 2000 years the earth has been covered in the gospel. We need to be pushing to reach all people so that Jesus can not only reign but that he can redeem the world and make all things new.

@@palmettobouy1 I thought He makes all things new after he destroys the world with fire. . And gives us new bodies etc

@@palmettobouy1 in Christ we are redeemed, but we are still in our unredeemed flesh. That's why we still sin

@@sioux1018 ofcourse. But God is using flawed vessels to grow the kingdom. Christ is king of all right now. The world is just in rebellion and needs to be made new. Death is the last enemy. Once christ returns all will be glorified. That doesn't negate that his kingdom is like yeast in the bread. Were winning. The gospel is working. Evil will fight back but fail.

That’s great to hear! Many premils don’t have that mindset.

And then you have Amill. Been leaning towards this for awhile and it makes more sense than Post Mill or Premill

@@SheepofTheShepherd-nu3lz There has to be a literal reign of Jesus from Jerusalem....it's not figurative

@@TheStemo1 Perhaps you don't understand that the book of Revelation is symbolism in meaning And you might want to go back and read Luke 17:20-23 The Kingdom is in the Elect of God now This is the church age Romans 2:28,29 We are Jews of the heart not Outward

@@SheepofTheShepherd-nu3lz It is my understanding that prophecies aren't allegory - none of the prophecies about Jesus' first coming were allegory. Revelation is a prophecy.

​@@TheStemo1they may not have been "allegorical" but they were misinterpreted, clearly.

Hmmm from what I understand, post millenials do still believe in a physical literal second coming, just that we have already endured the tribulation and that the kingdom of God on earth is "preparing the way" for Him to come, and Jesus will come back once the gospel has been preached throughout the whole world. The difference is that they believe that Revelation was mostly fulfilled by 70 AD, and we're in the last section before Jesus' physical return at the end of this age ("millenium"). Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

@@samueljennings4809 Which btw makes no sense. Nothing in revelation has ever happened before. It would be in all the histories of every culture on earth and it's not. Jesus isn't sitting on a throne in Jerusalem. Nothing they say makes sense. I'm premillennialist because it's the only one that makes sense and stays faithful to scripture while remaining faithful to a literal hermeneutic the entire time. PM theology and Dominionism theology are essentially one and the same. Especially PM theologists like Durbin and Joel who are theonomists

@@samueljennings4809 When was Revelation written? Asking for a friend.

@@kelslo74 the answer to this question won’t make these guys happy. John says he’s on Patmos on account of the gospel. The seals are said to be future events. It’s pretty widely accepted that Domitian exiled John to Patmos for preaching in Ephesus. Kinda hard to be about 70ad when Domitian wasn’t emperor until 81ad.

I don't know if this fits what you are looking for, but Bruce Gore has a chapter by chapter series on Revelation and he takes a postmil perspective.

Btw, it's on RU-vid. The playlist is _Apocalypse in Space and Time_ with 60 videos each around an hour+ give or take, it it will take some time to work through them.

Why?

Great Question

I’m new to postmil eschatology, but the way I think we can overcome the doom and gloom mindset that is pushed by the opposing views is this: we don’t look to the world to figure out what Christ is going to do. The nations rage and the rulers plan, but He who sits in the heavens laughs. (Psalm 2) “Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “the kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘look, here it is!’ Or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” Luke 17:20-21 Pre and Amillenialists look at this world and say, “look at how much evil there is! Christ CAN’T be reigning right now!” Or, “there is no way the gospel will prevail in such an evil age!” But why is the evil of this world even considered when we KNOW Christ’s power? He works miracles every time a human soul is regenerated. We were dead in sin, yet He brought us to life… yet we think He can’t do the same thing with our culture/nation? Why? Because it’s on a larger scale? As to A.I. or one world government and general evil… well… “we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken” Hebrews 12:28 All the mighty kingdoms of this world CAN be shaken, and will be. Think of the Roman Empires, Hitler, Stalin, the British Empire… all of them lost their great power after a time. But Christ’s kingdom cannot be shaken and will not lose its power. “Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen One in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations… He will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not be disheartened or crushed until He has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law.” Isaiah 42:1,3b-4

If you think the mark of the beast is literal and not symbolic then you must also think that the mark of God on the foreheads mentioned in Revelation is a literal computer chip or what have you. There’s no logical reason to think the MOB is literal and the MOG is symbolic when they’re both mentioned 7 times in the same book

Put simply, those are enemies to be subdued and made Christ's footstool through the preaching of the gospel. We shouldn't look at the giants in the land and fear our defeat, we should be emboldened to call people to repentance and disciple them in the word because we know God is more powerful than man and any technology they can come up with.

Jeff Durbin has dozens of sermons on eschatology where he goes through the Bible. He has a year long series just in Matthew 24.

@@Particularly_John_Gill I know, Jeff is a Preterist and his whole Eschatology seems to be based on his dogmatic, Preterist interpretation of Mt. 24. It's one of the reasons I always tell people NEVER to begin a study of Bible prophecy in Mt.24. First, Matthew's Gospel is NOT considered an Apocalyptic book. Second, there are better places to begin a study of Bible prophecy...like, the Apocalyptic books of Scripture. This is where the hinges of Preterism AND Futurism start to break down. I've got a couple videos about the subject. Check 'em out; let me know what you think. *Soli Deo Gloria*

If you've ever read Revelation, anything but premillennialism is dogfaced absurd. I mean. They think we're either in the millennium now or that it's already happened???? Okay so why is Satan loose right now? Why is the world so sinful and rapidly getting so much worse? Obviously Satan isn't bound right now. This stuff is frustrating because I'm autistic and don't understand how anyone can be anything but pre millennial if they have read the Bible. Revelation is pretty clear honestly. It's weird to think the contents of that entire book are... Already happened???? Just do strange and ignorant. Can anyone help me understand this better??

Absolutely

@@ryangallmeier6647 In my humble opinion, I believe your giving terrible advice. That’s like saying we should attempt geometry and calculus, before understanding simple elementary math. I say that with all due respect. Furthermore, I think it’s important to consider that prophecy has always been embedded in the historical portions of Scripture. Think of Gen 3:15 for example. We can look to the prophetic oracles made to Abraham, David, and so many others, that are dealing with things that would be realized thousands of years after they were uttered. In fact, the messianic prophecies came from various literary genres. And it’s the very same with respect to eschatology. What your saying seems to suggest that in order for God to speak about the last things, he must necessarily bind himself to speak about them in the Apocalyptic books alone. But we don’t ordinarily treat Scripture that way. For instance the gospel can be find in the historical portions of the OT, or in the historical account of Acts, and even apocalyptic portions of Scripture. It’s not bound to the first four books of the NT right? In fact, one may even argue that much about the Gospel is predicated on certain blurbs here and there showered throughout multiple genres and literally styles in the OT. This is just the kind of way God has been pleased to reveal the truth regarding a host of issues. You can go to the Gospels for example to find a perfect summary of the law. So there’s nothing biblically speaking that necessitates your recommended hermeneutic, although a case could be made against it. I would argue that faithfully understanding the more simple categorical and plain statements of Scripture in respect to eschatology, is foundational to understanding those other portions. I believe that the proof of this lays in the fact, that we must interpret all of Scripture - including it’s apocalyptic language - within a context or framework. Otherwise it’s unintelligible. And usually that context is discerned by what is explicit and clear categorically speaking. I’m Just a friend sharing his view, as you did yours brother. With much love and respect 👍🏽

They can’t

Yes they are both birthed out of post-mill

I used to think this was crazy. But now I'm on the fence now but with your question, that is in the future. I started to think, what turned me against the pre trib rapture, in part, was that the Bible only teaches two comings of Christ. Not 3. But then if he comes for the 1000 years and then again at the end, that's 3. Revelation has brought my view into doubt. I though many of these scriptures were about the kingdom but revelation said after the 1,000 year reign, then the sky would open and the new jarusalem would come down. I always thought it came down for the 1,000 years. So it seems all of those prophecies are for after everything is thrown into the lake of fire. David Carrico from Midnight Ride thinks the millemial reign already happened and the time when Satan is released to deceive the nation's is now. It makes sense because i don't see any scriptures that show the new jerusalem being here during the 1000 years. They say a thousand years in the Bible is sometimes used as just a long period of time. Most people say Christ has been regning since he died so maybe he has but now Satan is loosed. I don't know because there's still things that don't make sense so I'm still studying.

@@thecure728 it’s quite the study. Upon further study I can’t say I lean pre mill. If you want to, check out 1 Cor 15:25-25, 52-55, 2 Thes 1:6-10, Acts 24:15, John 5:28-29, John 6:40. Death is the last enemy to be destroyed, and death is destroyed at the last trumpet when the dead in Christ are raised imperishable. Jesus defeats his last enemy at His return, not 1000 years later. Non believers are cast away at Christ’s return, not 1000 years later. There’s 1 resurrection, not 2. That raises the questions: 1) what about the 1000 year reign in revelation 20? 2) What about Satan being bound? Revelation 20 doesn’t say this reign is on earth. John sees those souls in front of thrones, and in revelation, thrones are heavenly. The number 1000 is a symbolic number in scripture, so why would it become literal in the most symbolic book of the bible? We are told the meaning of the binding of Satan. It’s so he can no longer deceive the nations. Israel used to be the nation who knew God. Now people know God all around the world. Jesus said “now is the time for the prince of this world to be driven out. When I am lifted up I will draw all men to myself” and He said “to steal from the strong man you must first bind the strong man. Then you can plunder his house.” Why would Jesus need to bind and steal from the strong man after He returns if the non believers are already gone, all the people remaining are glorified saints, and there’s no marriage in that age which is to come? And where do these people come from to rebel at the end of the 1000 years? Sorry for the long message, I hope it’s beneficial. Also, you’re absolutely correct about the pre trib rapture. There’s no biblical support for it. It’s at the last trumpet, when the dead in Christ are raised imperishable, and death is swallowed up in victory. The dead in Christ rise first, then we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1Cor 15, 1 Thes 4) God bless

Amen. It’s a heresy known as Chiliasm

@@Yela927 So, are all forms of Premillennialism "heresy" now? Sad.

@@ryangallmeier6647 Premillennialism is not historically orthodox and it is very easily debunked using the Bible.

@@Yela927 Is it "heresy" like you stated? Most of the Ante-Nicene fathers who wrote on the subject were Premillennialists. Does that mean it's "heresy". I wouldn't be using that kind of language of my Amillennialist or Postmillennialist opponents; why use it of all Premillennialists. I don't understand that at all. Naw, Premillennialism is not "easily debunked". The 2nd Advent of Christ is depicted in Rev. 19. Rev. 20 then talks about what happens as a result of the events of Rev. 19. Also, the 2nd Advent of Christ is talked about in 1 Thes. 4:13-18, Jn. 14:1-3, 1 Cor. 15:51-55, Mt. 13:24-30, 36-43 (the parable of the "wheat and weeds"), and other places in Revelation. Rev. 20 follows Rev. 19 not just contextually, but chronologically. Rev. 20 is NOT the same prophecy as Rev. 12, is it? I would like to hear your attempt at debunking Premillennialism. My view is the Heavenly Premillennial view. At the 2nd Advent (not before, as Dispensational Futurists maintain) Christ returns, resurrects His people (not the wicked, who just stay dead during this time, and don't get resurrected until AFTER the 1,000 years), His living people are changed/glorified, and all His people are caught up together to Jesus' Father's Kingdom (HEAVEN), where they will enjoy a Heavenly feast/supper (cf. Rev. 19:6-10). Whereas the birds of the air will be feasting on the dead bodies of the wicked who were slain by Christ's 'reapers' at His 2nd Advent (cf. Rev. 19:11-19). During the Millennium, Christ's people are reigning with Him in the Glory of Heaven. The wicked are all still in the grave. Satan and his demons are in prison on a desolate earth, void of all life, with no one to deceive or manipulate. Christ's people are in heaven studying "the books". After the Millennium, the Heavenly/New Jerusalem will descend from heaven (with Christ and His people in it) to the earth and the wicked will be resurrected. Satan will deceive them once again (since they have always been his people; not God's), and they will try and take the city by force, and God will destroy them with fire. Pretty simple stuff. Just read Rev. 19-20 and the other references I gave. You'll see it. Questions about any of this? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*

@@ryangallmeier6647 Millennium Questions: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture? Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on the earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Does an angel with a key open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why does the angel unlock the pit if it was not locked previously? Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11? Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14? If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation chapter 11, where is the beast now? Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (See the bodily resurrection of the two witnesses in Rev. chapter 11.) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5? John 5:24 (Spiritual) John 5:27-30 The bodily resurrection and judgment of “all” the dead. Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24. Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46 ? What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21? Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return? Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15? Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31? Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. How would mortals survive this fire? Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20? Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1? When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18? What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:1-16? Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones? What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief, in 2 Peter 3:1-13? Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?

Hi Steve, we understand your point. The full interview on our channel you can see Jeff Durbin talk a lot in the interview. In this particular clip Pastor Joel just spoke more on that subject. We hope you'll subscribe to our channel.

I just subscribed. Keep up the good work fam

Post millennial believer who thinks we are in the "little season," with Satan being "loosed" prior to the final coming of Christ where he establishes his eternal kingdom.

@@user-mx3kh8rj1t Rev 20:3 very clearly indicates that Satan is bound so that "he can no longer deceive the nations" - indicating that he was deceiving the nations for the millenia prior. While you are most certainly correct that man is responsible for his actions, you cannot dismiss the idea of being deceived at an individual and societal level in the same way Eve was deceived. Adam and Eve were both responsible for their actions and sin, but the post-mil argument that we are currently living in the millennial kingdom of Christ on the earth (as compared to a purely spiritual kingdom) would necessitate that the enemy is bound or vanquished. Early believers and Jews were very keen on the notion of king and kingdom (much more than we are today) and I can guarantee you that if you were to transport them from the time of those writings to today and tell them of all the world history that has happened since 70 AD, not a one of them would call this the earthly millennial reign of King Jesus.

You’re the one sounding confused with all those questions. You are assuming the pre tribulation is a biblical idea. The age of grace is evil? Do you care to explain?

What “wrath to come” do you speak of? The prophesied destruction of the Jewish temple that took place in 70 AD?

@@NickSandt Revelation 16 New International Version The Seven Bowls of God’s Wrath 16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.” 2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. 3 The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died. 4 The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say: “You are just in these judgments, O Holy One, you who are and who were; 6 for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets, and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.” 7 And I heard the altar respond: “Yes, Lord God Almighty, true and just are your judgments.” 8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him. 10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done. 12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. 15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” 16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. 17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds,[a] fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

Hate to break it to you, but the Tribulation already happened

Tribulation already came and passed.

James white can prove you wrong at least on the idea it has no biblical support. Doesn’t mean you’re persuaded by it but in this video he highlights the biblical support for it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-njIU-VAK-DU.html&feature=shares

@@ReformedSooner24 I've seen that video before. I have many Postmill minister friends and asked what they think is the best book to prove Postmill. I read their recommendation He Shall Have Dominion by Gentry. If that is the best book in support of it I'm confident Postmillenialism is not true. Do you recommend any you think are better?

​@@tinroof4816I really don't understand this sort of over the top rhetoric. No support? Really? Given that you side with premil, and dispensationalism is in the broader premil umbrella, I'd think there is a lot you agree with even though you reject it's distinctives. Likewise, both amil and historic postmil fall under a postmil umbrella, and there is a lot of overlap in their beliefs, probably moreso than the various premil beliefs. Amil didn't even distinguish itself from postmil until about 100 years ago. How can postmil be completely unscriptural and yet you find support for amil?

Boy nowhere does it say they will be converted before the millennium.

@@Sirach144 psalm 22 is pretty clear about the generational blessings that will come from our King Jesus to all the nations on earth, it even talks about people being born during this time of great blessing. Any idea that presumes Jesus would allow such evil like the ludicrous stuff people come up with today about the “coming anti-Christ” is unfaithful to the scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say there will be an anti christ to rule over the world or that there will be a literal mark of the beast.

@@Yela927 Revelation 13:5-8. "And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain." Revelation 13:16-18 "Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666." The evidence is there, whether or not people want to interpret it literally or figuratively. Saying that "nowhere in the Bible does it say this" is a false statement. There is a reason why Premillennialists think their view is right, and it's not because of random guessing, but based on biblical sources.

@@samtrout4654 pre millennials have an unbiblical view of “Antichrist”. Not once does the term show up in revelation and also John defines what it means and it applies very broadly. How do you understand the ending of psalm 22. Do you believe that the resurrected bodies of Christians will be dwelling with the corrupted bodies to die and be born? Do you take first Corinthians chapter 15 literally? I certainly do. Most pre mills won’t even touch 1 Corinthians 15 and for good reason.

@@Yela927 I'm not an expert to any extent on any views of the millennium, I was just trying to respond with scripture when you said that nowhere was scripture supporting the antichrist, as I think both views have convincing evidence. I have heard arguments for Postmillennialism from James White, but I think John Macarthur was more convincing in his eschatology. While I understand the argument for 1 Corinthians 15, I believe there is a good explanation from Premillennialists like John Macarthur that explain it well. I also feel like so much else with John's Revelation and other eschatological texts have to be ignored or spiritualized in order to justify Postmillennialism. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all, but I think the only important doctrines of the end times is that Christ will return, God is victorious in the end, and there will be a day of judgement.

Do you think Christians in Weimar thought the same thing?

You display a very narrow view of history. Tell the Christians of ancient Rome, on their way to the Colosseum, that the world was better back then; Christianity was a key player in the fall of Rome and the end of gladiatorial entertainment. Tell the child brides of medieval India that they live in better times; English missionaries transformed India Islam is less of a threat than it was 150-200 years ago, but it's not going down without a fight, and Christians are on the forefront. Heck, Christianity started the scientific revolution, and revolutionized western society! Christianity is more widespread than ever, compare that to the second and third century, when it was on the brink of extinction Sure it's been an extremely slow process, but we cannot say it's been unsuccessful, and more importantly we cannot give up and turn the world over to the evil one. Not now, not after all this progress Read Matthew 28:18 The great commission is not doomed to fail. Jesus has been given all authority, and has sent out His followers to advance His kingdom and restore the Earth, until His enemies are His footstool. Matthew 22:44

Let me encourage you brother. Did you know that the fastest growing churches today are in China and in Iran. Another thing is that, in Gaza (at least on the Humanitarian camps) former muslims are seeing visions of Jesus and are turning to Christianity (see the news). Yes it seems that there are rumors of wars and ongoing wars but Jesus told us to take heart because He has overcome this world. Let’s continue to trust Him and bring the good news to our neighbors, and support & pray for our missionaries bringing down the gates of hades in those nations. You never know, in a decade or so we’ll all confess Jesus is Lord.

Alright I think I have to split this comment in two lol, but here goes: Lots of respect for MacArthur; he’s been VERY influential in shaping my theology to this day, and I’m so thankful to God for him. I think that his eschatology just doesn’t add up though when you look at the Scriptures holistically. Personally, I’m stuck between Amill and Postmill. I’m pretty sure I’ve ruled out both forms of premillennialism though. I grew up dispy premill, but it just doesn’t add up when you examine how the Scriptures treat the fulfillment of those Kingdom promises, and when you see that Christ isn’t just going to have a temporal reign on Earth for a thousand years, but He is presently, at this moment, reigning as King of Kings and Lord of Lords at the right hand of God the Father. I’m aware that premillennialists don’t deny this, but I don’t really think it’s consistent. My main problem is that premill seems to fail to realize that with Christ’s coming, the Kingdom has been established. Not in its final consummation, of course. But nonetheless is already established. There are also TONS of presuppositions I never realized I had about the Scriptures that I was carrying over from premillennialism that I didn’t know I had. Things like Matt. 24 being about the future, coming in the clouds always means Christ is descending (instead of ascending, as the Son of Man ascends to the ancient of days to receive authority in Daniel), that Revelation is chronological, that “last days” and “end of the age” almost always refer to the time immediately preceding the second coming, etc. But then you start to see that premillennialism (at least the dispy kind), in many ways, also violates the most fundamental hermeneutic for interpreting Scripture; namely, that Scripture interprets Scripture. Dispensationalism doesn’t look for interpreting symbols in Revelation from the Old Testament where it’s alluded to, but rather it seeks to interpret those symbols through, well, the newspaper, more or less. The hermeneutic I was taught as a dispy premill, was “look for secret things, like what do grasshoppers look like? Helicopters. So John was talking about helicopters.” Or how about “Obama’s name has something to do with Satan falling like lightning from Heaven” (did I mention I thought Obama was the antichrist? 😂). The hermeneutic is radically inconsistent regardless, and no one interprets the rest of Scripture that way. But one of the more interesting things I’ve found is this statement on the nature of the Kingdom, which I think is irreconcilable with the premill position. Take a look: “20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." (Luke 17:20, ESV)”

When you pair this with Christ’s present reign, as we’re told in the Great Commission, where Jesus ascended to Heaven in the clouds to receive authority from the Ancient of Days, I don’t see a second Kingdom of God anywhere mentioned. It actually says that the first Kingdom will be everlasting and have no end. So if this prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus at His ascension, where He came to the Ancient of Days in the clouds: 13 "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. 14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed. (Daniel 7:13, ESV) Which I think all orthodox Christians would affirm, I see no reason to look for a second Kingdom. And remembering that the nature of the Kingdom is not a worldly kingdom, but a spiritual one (remember, it’s not coming in ways that can be seen, and it’s not a political kingdom, as Jesus told Pilate that his kingdom was “not of this world.”) On the contrary, this is what Scripture says about the Kingdom of God: 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:22, ESV) Now this gives, in plain words, the order of events. And possibly one of the best arguments for post millennialism imo. He delivers the (singular) Kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and authority and power, and He must reign until all His enemies are subjected to Him. The last one to be destroyed (not the first, but the last enemy) is death. In other words, death is abolished at the END of Christ’s millennial Kingdom reign, not the beginning. The exception to what is placed under His feet is God Himself, ofc. And then if you consider all the passages that talk about Christ’s reign, which I won’t quote here, but it really isn’t reconcilable with premillennialism. I’m sure you’ve thought of 1000 examples of things that you think don’t make sense of the amill/postmill views, but I’m telling you, it all makes sense if you watch “the last days according to Jesus” By R.C. Sproul, or Jeff Durbin’s sermons on eschatology. Another thing that may also help is watching the documentary “On Earth as it is in Heaven.” They show some major problems with premill, and present the amill/postmill (I’ve sort of combined them, even though the documentary is postmill, because much of what they say in it is also true of amill I think) views in a way that just makes sense. Like one of the claims that dispy premills make, such as John MacArthur, is that Jesus basically offered the Millenial Kingdom to the Jews right then and there, but by their rejection, they forfeited the Millenial Kingdom, and so the Gospel went to the Gentiles. Which is quite consistent with the dispy idea that the Church of God is merely a parenthesis in history until Israel accepts the Messiah, and basically it will go back to being mostly focused on the Jews (tbh there’s so much wrong with that, and it’s so inconsistent with the Abrahamic blessing, but I won’t get into that now). But anyway, they address that in the documentary, and how they actually were about to make Jesus King, but then He fled. So if Christ’s first advent was a failure to establish an earthly Jewish kingdom, that passage makes no sense. Really, I think premillenislists, in my own biased opinion, make the same error that the Jews of Jesus’ day did about the Kingdom of God. I’m not one to believe that God has rejected His people (whom He foreknew, at least), or that God has no care for Israel stemming out of His love for their forefathers. I do think they’re beloved for the sake of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all those whom God loved before them. But I believe that this will only mean that many Jews will come to salvation in Christ and be incorporated into His Kingdom, making no distinction between Jew or Greek in Christ, but not that there will be a second, earthly, temporal Kingdom with an expiration date after 1000 years. At that point, why make us wait so long for the consummation if it’s all temporary anyway? To conclude, I hope this helped you at least begin to see the arguments in favor of the amill and postmill positions; we can certainly disagree on eschatology, and I don’t think less of others with a different eschatology than mine (as I said before, I haven’t completely worked it all out myself). But I hope I was able to make you think and re-examine some of your beliefs. It’s important to let the clear interpret the unclear, and it’s also important to take many verses into account at once. Of course, being presented a few verses, one can usually try to make sense of it from their current systematic theology: so I get that. Maybe you’re thinking about all the other things you see as a premillennial, and saying “he forgot about this! That totally destroys what he said there!” Or something like that. But that’s the thing, when examining positions radically different from your own, you have to sometimes set aside some presuppositions to keep yourself from explaining stuff away. When I became a Calvinist (with the help of MacArthur), I could’ve tried to explain every verse about election and predestination away using my then-current presuppositions. I could’ve argued “whosoever will!” After every verse. But in order to make any meaningful progress, I had to examine those Scriptures in light of each other. Now, we obviously want to be careful ofc, and be discerning, but there’s a balance of setting aside presuppositions while also being careful. It’s especially easy, I’ve found, to do this with eschatology. The reason being that if you haven’t had training in dealing with certain eschatological texts, it’s easy to just not accept those ideas because you don’t have the answer to them, since we don’t arrive at major systems of interpretation in a day (usually). If what I said made any sense at all though, I would highly recommend looking into the partial preterist position advocated by R.C. Sproul, Jeff Durbin, and Doug Wilson. I was a partial preterist before I had even come close to deciding on my Millenial position. I’m a lot closer now, but still learning and thinking about things. Whatever position you may land on, and however hard you may have already studied out these issues, I hope my comments were genuinely helpful and well-received! May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with you! :)

Jeff Durbin's "high" Preterism is fallacious, as is his Postmillennialism. However, Dispensational Futurism (that MacArthur teaches) is just as fallacious. Neither one of these views are what the Reformers taught, and solidified in their various Confessions of Faith. The Reformers were Historicists. In fact, it was two different Jesuits who first systematized both the Preterist and Futurist schools of Prophetic thought and interpretation. The Preterist school, founded by the Jesuit, Luis de Alcasar. The Futurist school, founded by the Jesuit, Francisco Ribera. The purpose of the Jesuits was to steer men's minds from properly identifying the Antichrist from Scripture and History. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*

@@ryangallmeier6647 What do you think of Sam Storm's Kingdom Come?

@@edmarconroy1646 On Amillennialism, I've really only dived into Kim Riddlebarger's book, "A Case For Amillennialism". I would imagine Sam uses a lot of the same argumentation Riddlebarger does, though. There are some major problems I see with Amillennialism. A couple: 1). That Amillennialists don't believe that Rev. 19 and 20 are to be read/interpreted chronologically. I do believe they should be. 2). Amillennialists believe that Rev. 20 is a recapitulation of Rev. 12 (and the "woman in the wilderness). This is also false. Rev. 11, 12, AND 13 all contain the prophecy of the "1,260 days/42 months/'time, times, half a time'," and the Reformation and post-Reformation writers all utilized the day=year principle in understanding this time prophecy. The 1,260 days are a literal 1,260 years. Whereas in Rev. 20, it's just 1,000 years (no day=year principle necessary). I've never been convinced by Amillennialist argumentation. It begins with flawed premises. Helpful? Let me know. btw, I think I have a video posted concerning the proper interpretation of the Millennium in Rev. 20. Check it out; otherwise, I'll have to make one. *Soli Deo Gloria*

Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) 10. Watch the RU-vid video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church: “The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xwXoMNpOhos.html Premil is clearly debunked here. The preterist or postmill views don't seem to align with scripture for me. Pre-wrath seems to be the most likely scenario. Blessings.

@@ericrussell5114 Yeah, but, "Pre-wrath" has to do with the timing of the Rapture, not the Millennium, no? Or, I should ask: what does the Pre-wrath view say about the Millennium? Are Pre-wrath folks Amil., or, Premil.? I thought most were Premil.? Let me know, bruh.