If you want an easy way of explaining the difference between masculinity and toxic masculinity it is the difference between Superman and Justice Lord Superman. They embody the same traits but the Justice Lord’s version of keeping people safe is destructive.
I think of them as the difference between Lawful Good and Lawful Evil, on one hand, rigid laws are a key part of keeping our society together, but they could go too far and become oppression.
For doctor who, I’d point to Rory as a positively masculine hero. He’s protective, a badass, sarcastic, he’s constantly competing with the doctor and he’s desperate to impress Amy. But he has such a non-traditionally masculine personality, he’s a nurse he explicitly loves his wife more than anything and isn’t ashamed of it
Loras Tyrell He had his bad moments but they were scarce and far between, definitely overshadowed by everything else that was good about him. Can’t blame the guy for feeling insecure sometimes, his girlfriend/fiancé/wife kept flirting with a powerful, incredibly smart, good looking guy who had the ability to travel through time and space. Most of other guys in his situation would have acted crazy.
My favorite example of positive masculinity is Aang in Avatar. He learns to control his temper and strike a balance between his pacifistic views and his duty as the Avatar. His best moment is when the entire world is practically chanting "kill him, kill him" for Aang to end the Fire Lord's reign and yet he refuses to do so and only decides to confront the Fire Lord when he knows there is another way to stop him
I saw Aang's finding-another-way less as a positive thing and more of the writers having to bullsh*t a solution because Nickelodeon wouldn't let them kill the Fire Lord. In a perfect world, Aang would have had to come to terms with the fact that sometimes there is no easy solution that lets you sleep easy. Sometimes the right thing is to prioritize the world over your own personal morals. Oh, well.
i was pionted out the Zuko's journey on the series as an example but i think that the cause and cathalist for that journey was uncle Iroh. he was the father figure that zuko needed to become a better firelord and teached him about all the Good things that every nation had to offer to the world and one another. iroh showed him that kindness, empathy and understanding is always better than fear, hate and violence; he also showed him that he is one part of the world and if everyone want peace, they had to wrok together. uncle Iroh is the ultimate roll model.
jack Harkness.. sexual, but never a creep, open, explicitly pro consent, and he finds the individual sexy, not their look. he accepts "no"gracefully, so he is nice, he's secure in his masculinity
How in the name of entertainment did you manage to forget Gomez Addams? Smart, ambitious, loving, devoted to family even when they hurt him, as with Fester in the first movie, supportive of his wife and children, even when he does not agree with their choices, as with going to camp in Addams Family Values, not afraid to express his emotions, good or bad, and relentlessly stubborn in fixing situations once he's past the initial shock. Also, forgetting Samwise Gamgee is an absolute travesty. Actually, you can pretty much randomly pick any good-guy character in LOTR and find one type of positive masculinity or another. From Aragorn's acceptance of his role in Middle Earth to Gimli's willingness to swallow his pride and be tossed if the situation warrants it, those movies are absolutely dripping in positive male role models. Lastly, Star Trek. All of it. Pretty much every male protagonist in it, even the one-offs or short-terms like Commander Decker who sacrificed himself to fix his screwup or Vic Fontaine and his endless supply of insight, wisdom, support and awesome crooner songs. Hell, even some of the antagonists, such as Dumar from DS9, display this behavior. Even Captain Kirk, yes womanizing, test cheating, arrogant Captain Kirk, is far more of a respectful male role model that he first appears. So yeah, Star Trek: pick a random male protagonist, find positive masculinity. I swear, my personal ideal man is a combination of Samwise Gamgee, Gomez Addams, and Mr Rogers, both Fred and Steve. And you forgot 3 out of 4! It's ok, you're still awesome.
Oh yeah! Gomez is a GREAT example! And yeah - LotR. I made my own comment and mentioned a few of the characters but found it difficult to stop at JUST a few.
Gomez is an interesting one, I love him and he is a great father figure,but you could argue the Ying yang soulmate relationship with Mortica means it's tricky to see how much is inherent in his character or how much is part of his dynamic with her specifically.
Then again, an argument can be made that Gomez's inherent decency, albeit more than perhaps a little on the macabre/trickster side, is what allowed his connection with Morticia to thrive.
To me, the ultimate contrast between healthy and toxic masculinity is in Avatar: The Last Airbender. On one side, we have Ozai, the embodiment of war, destruction, and the vanity that comes with power, a man capable of burning his own son for showing compassion, which he sees as weakness; on the other, there's Uncle Iroh, who is wise, powerful, resilient, but kind, humble and approachable, always willing to use his knowledge and strength to protect and guide others, a much better father figure and influence to Prince Zuko (and the audience).
That reminds me of the real life soldiers from Band of Brothers but it extends to others too. They often got called brave or heroes but many didn't see themselves that way. The reality was they were scared shitless but did what they needed to anyway to survive and protect those around them.
@Rebecca Woolf Yes, Doctor Who has used a variation on it, I just wanted to point to something much older, although DW would have been very appropiate for this channel. :-)
@Rebecca Woolf Yes the DW quote does pre-date the Lion King quote, I wasn't trying to say otherwise as my posts aren't about the Lion King. But if you want to go there, just for a bit of fun, the comments in my first post here go back all the way to World War II. :-P Just for fun. :-)
Also his admittance to Simba that the thought of losing his son scared him. Simba: I guess even kings get scared, huh? Mufasa: M-hm. Being scared doesn't mean that you're not still brave.
Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings is the perfect example of this. Yeah, he'll decapitate Uruk-hai and leap heroic charges into battle, but when he'll also kiss his friend on the head as he dies, and then cry about it. I grew up with those movies, and Aragorn has always been the kind of person I want to be.
There was something the twelfth doctor said: "Never be cruel, never be cowardly... Hate is always foolish, love, is always wise... Always try to be nice, never fail to be kind!... Be kind..." And I think those choice quotes from his final speech really emulate the attributes of positive masculinity.
There is a very nice video called "The Fantastic Masculinity of Newt Scamander" which I can recommend. It is about Newt Scamander being an example for a more soft and kind form of masculinity, opposing the toxic masculinity that is encountered in many other movies. It's from Pop Culture Detective, a very good RU-vid channel that analyzes different shows/films :)
I'd honestly say the character journey of Tony Stark in the MCU is a great example of a growth into postivie masculinity given where he started and ended.
Absolutely. That's the great thing about Tony (similar to the character in Stranger Things). He doesn't change who he is fundamentally. He's still arrogant, still carries the world on his shoulders. But the way he does it is so much more positive at the end.
I'd like to mention a few characters from My Hero Academia. Deku is extremely caring and loves the people around him, and risked his life to rescue his bully TWICE, and is also unafraid to show emotion and weakness. All Might is also a great example. He'll try to maintain his appearance of unskakenness and ability to protect others, even to his own detriment. He always has a sense of humor and wields a torch against the darkness of the darkness of the creeping evil villains in the show. He's also like the father figure to Deku that he needed so much. next off, Todoroki is a great character development where he went from edgelord with daddy issues to a powerful yet chill friend to deku. last of all, i'd like to mention Kirishima. at first glance, he seems like an overly masculine, overly confident guy that needs to show off. but its quite the opposite. he's extremely outgoing, friendly, and supportive to everyone he talks to, and is the first person to get past the outer shell of Bakugo and make friends through sheer strength of personality. He's a bit insecure about his power, thinking its not as cool looking as everyone else's, but he is still one of the nicest people in the show. lastly, his power makes his skin hard as rock, giving him the ability to put himself between his friends and danger, protecting them from harm, just like supes and cap. Other than Bakugo, Mineta, Endeavor, and Todoroki before the sports festival arc, mha is dripping with positive masculinity.
I won't argue over the existence of 'Toxic Masculinity' but I will say I appreciate this video's impassioned presentation of men in a positive light. My example of 'Positive Masculinity' would be the 12th Doctor, as aggressively stoic as one can get but over the course of his run he learns his flaws and sets his sights on a single goal: be kind.
There's surprisingly a lot of positive masculinity in superhero media. Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Barry Allen (especially in the CW show), all strong men who are known for their kind attitudes.
Barry Allen on the CW show is a simp lol. No way he is good, he sucks and can't function as a hero without Iris. In the show he is just weak and he needs a peptalk every five minutes. In the 3 seasons I would agree but post season 4 no he isn't a good leader and he has regressed massively as a character.
Without ranking/order: 1. Steve Rogers 2. The Doctor 3. Peter Parker 4. Wade Wilson 5. Rory Williams 6. Newt Scamander There are definitely more, but i just *cannot* think of them at the moment
John Smith YES! Newt Scamander is a great example of positive masculinity, also quiet masculinity (if that’s a thing,) in that he he’s driven to do right, he’s loyal to his friends and colleagues, he tries to protect those around him (even strangers and animals,) and he does it all without any overt display of strength or endurance.
@@isabelh5561 It really depends on the depiction, because Wade has been depicted a number of ways. Ex. a sex-loving womanizer to a feminist. I'm talking more about the feminist side/depiction. I should have made that pick more clear.
It cracks me up how defensive people get about toxic masculinity, as if its existence would imply that all masculinity is toxic. I like to use as an analogy a trail guide warning you to not eat poisonous berries on the trail. Who would jump to the conclusion that this means that all berries everywhere are poisonous? People are weird!
The only problem with that analogy is that if you're told some berries are poisonous, but you're not told which they are and how you can identify them, or more to the point how you identify the ones that aren't poisonous, you don't eat any berries just to be safe. Okay, I take it back, that actually makes the analogy stronger, as it shows the issue of just talking about toxic masculinity.
because extremist are louder than the more reasonable masses. far as i am aware there are people who use the 'toxic masculinity' to mean 'masculinity is inherently toxic'. they're extremist but they are loud. so, for many people that is how they were introduced to the term and possibly the only way they've heard it used.
Why not just call it over protectiveness, shitty parenting, aggressively confrontational, I feel like these cover the usual traits of 'toxic masculinity' the difference is they're genderless, anyone can do them, it's not only when they're male that it's toxic.
Toxic masculinity often is used to imply all masculinity is toxic. I've never, until this video, heard a person talk about positive masculinity in contrast with toxic masculinity. That would actually be a pretty good way of moving people away from toxic masculinity and towards a more positive expression - but that's not actually the goal for most people in the public consciousness who talk about it. The goal is to destroy masculinity and tear down men. This is why no one gives a shit about how the school system is blatantly failing boys and young men. Girls are outperforming boys academically in every way.
Personable Person That is not the point at all, I’m truly sorry you feel that way. As a cis woman feminist I’m married to a man I love, I have a son, I love men very deeply on the whole, as I love all humans, and I would never want to “tear down men.” That statement honestly pisses me off. It is true there is such a thing as “toxic masculinity” and having been treated to that for much of my life, I’d just ask you to believe it. Point Nathaniel is making is exactly that positive masculinity can be rare in popular culture. Why? I can’t say. But it should be more common.
Pretty much every character from the Lord of the Rings. Their strenght comes not comes from their anger or desire to destroy Sauron, but from their love for their families, companions and homes. They fight to save and protec. The first action Aragorn took after becoming the king was to sneak in to the infarmy to heal people. He's the king because he cares, not because he can wield a sword.
“I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.” Faramir.
I think Geralt from The Witcher Netflix series is also a good example. He's stoic and very used to violence, but also kind and very willing to love. Throughout the show he is a bulwark of strength that those in need can lean against and be safe.
Faramir from Lord of the rings is also a good one, “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”
I'd say Steven Universe himself is a positive example of it. His main "weapon" is a shield and he almost never goes straight for violence; he's always trying to find a pacifist way to handle things but is also heavily protective of those he loves but never to a smothering degree. True, there are some subversions w/ Steven like his openness to typically feminine things like wearing a dress in one instance and being completely okay w/ crying when things get too much for him, but it's done in a positive light and the show runner Rebecca Sugar is now actively criticizing the "bottle your emotions" idea of masculinity (and to an extent of certain mental illnesses) in the epilogue series of Steven Universe Future. He's a fave of mine when it comes to positive masculinity while also working with active subversions of the trope.
Dean Winchester is a good solid example. He starts as a perfect daddy’s little soldier with all the classic toxic masculine traits and through the seasons he sheds them one by one like layers covering his true self. It’s a beautiful and very important transformation. Seeing him in later seasons without this layers is just great: he is not only becomes an example of positive masculinity and starts to be more honest and open with others and himself but he also gives Sam freedom to grow, to be his own person and not just Sammy, Dean’s little brother. Their relationship therefore becomes more healthy and stronger. And their whole journey with more than just two of them but also theirs found family (Cas, Jack, Eileen, etc) becomes more interesting and meaningful.
I would have also included Troy from Community. He was originally the stereotypical jock character before the events of the show, but he embraces his artistic side and also lets go of his ego. He becomes an emotionally sensitive person.
My absolute favorite example is Ray Palmer aka the Atom from the Arrowverse. His relationship with Nate and his girlfriend Nora are wonderful. He’s so positive and kind and upbeat on Legends that I always love seeing him encounter new situations. Plus Brandon Route seems like a truly great guy IRL. Thanks for this thoughtful video!
The Legends have great characters. The men and the women are wonderful. In a tv show about superheros the men especially have been amazing. Ray, Nate, Jefferson, Snart and evening Mick are the kind of guys to model ones behavior after. The Arrowverse in general has pretty good male character (maybe not Supergirl).
Captain America will always be the positive male role model I strive to be like. Also, I think a decent male character in a recent show is Wayne from letterkenny. Sure he smokes, drinks, fights for fun, and doesnt like kids but he is still an overall standup dude with some positive portrayals of masculinity, even specifically the "country boy" type masculinity that's unfortunately somewhat steeped in toxicity Other honorable mentions: Zuko from Avatar: showing what it means to grow beyond the toxic environment you were raised in Aang: the physical embodiment of compassion, but not without his own sense of duty and justice Uncle Iroh: THE greatest example of a positive male role model possibly in all of fiction. If theres one thing I think everybody needs to see from Avatar, its Irohs story from Tales of Ba Sing Sei.
I don't think not liking kids is related to toxic masculinity. I don't really like kids and I'm not toxicly masculine, and there are plenty of dudes like me who don't like them but aren't 'toxic'. That's just a personal preference imo
The first character that I thought of was Hagrid from Harry Potter. He is this huge man with a big beard but has the personality and kindness of a puppy. He is protective of Harry and the gang and gets emotional. He also handles other people's emotions well. Really well done video!
Nathaniel Wayne IS positive masculinity. And positive femininity. Just a ball of positivity and beauty and fun and inspiration and a squillion other awesome things. ❤
Terry Jeffords and Steve Harrington would absolutely be my choices too. Perfect examples of positive masculinity. Male incarnations of the Doctor also count.
Whenever I think of positive masculinity, I think of my dad. He’s like mufasa, minus the dying thing. He cares for his family with all of his heart and that goes beyond blood relation. He’s very thoughtful and knows how to be a leader, but is also a great listener. When I was in the hospital as a baby, he always took the night shift for my mom and made sure I was getting the best care. Now that I’m a writer, I’m gonna write characters like my dad into my stories. My dad’s favorite movie is Disney’s Tarzan which makes perfect sense since Tarzan is also a positive masculine role model, especially in the animated series. He can fight sure, but he only does it to protect his family and friends. When I was little my dad would hold me in his arms and sing “You’ll be in my heart” while holding my hand. He is and always will be strong both physically, mentally, and emotionally.
Avatar the Last Airbender: Aang, Zuko and Korra Steven Universe: Steven, Greg, And Garnet Daybreak: Wesley Fists Law & Order SVU: Fin Tutuola The Good Place: Jamie Mendoza, Chidi Aguonye Marvel: James Rhodes, Sam Wilson, T'Challa, Scott Lang, DC: Jefferson Pierce, Virgil Hawkins, Barry Allen, Augustus Freeman, J'onn J'ones, Scott Free, John Stewart You will notice they are women on this list. That is because masculine characteristics are not exclusive to one sex.
One of my favourite examples is Crichton and Dargo in Farscape. Crichton is a complicated character working through a lot of trauma, and part of that is struggling to find the balance between healthy and unhealthy masculinity. Part of what helps him is the friendship between him and Dargo, an alien warrior with a big sensitive heart.
when you mentioned characters who started off toxic but grew over time, I personally thought of Tony Stark from the MCU, the character who we met in 2008s Iron Man was an egotistical playboy who enjoyed sleeping with many women and even once he became Iron Man was incredibly obsessive about "the next mission" almost like Batman, this guy wouldn't ever be able to do what he did in Avengers: Endgame, sacrificing himself to save everyone and allowing a child to take his place in the form of Peter Parker without a lot of character development and growth
If anyone else here has seen MASH - Colonel Potter. He's a great leader, unafraid to be tough when the situation requires it (which is often, considering the kind of people he's commanding), but also unafraid to show his emotions and express his love for his friends, and always there when someone needs personal advice or a shoulder to cry on (the scene in "Peace On Us" where Margaret goes to him for advice about whether to get a divorce... it's so good!). Not to mention he's a devoted and loving husband and father - even though he's stuck thousands of miles away from his family for the duration of the show, he still does everything he can to be there for them. I could go on, and there are so many other wonderful examples of positive masculinity in that show (BJ, Winchester when he gets over himself, Hawkeye in the later seasons, Klinger), but I suppose I've rambled enough.
Optimus prime is a great masculine character and he’s a goddamn alien robot. He’s stoic but open to caring for his men like family I also recommend Transformers Animated It has a young Optimus learning to be a leader and help people when he’s told being a hero is not in his programming plus Ratchet is another good one The duality of Optimus prime and Sentinel Prime is another way to portray positive and toxic masculinity People who watched the show remember how much of a dick Sentinel was Maybe I should put in a Patreon request better look for that tier if you wouldn’t mind I did
These are some of the best videos on your channel! You never become condescending or standoffish as a lot of people often do when discussing these issues and you always present more than one side! Thank you for teaching me as much as you have.
I just mentioned him on another comment as an example of a great guy. His progression is amazing and it has always felt so natural. One of the best written characters ever.
I was gonna talk about him too! every man in legends are great and we often talk about Ray and Nate but Mick has the best character development, coming from a place full of toxic masculinity to learning progressively to redirect it in a positive way, really great character!
Most of Steven Universe's male characters are fantastic for this, and several of Crazy Ex Girlfriend's as well. It's different kinds of masculinity only judged by how much they hurt people, including themselves.
For me, I would have to say that the dad in interstellar is definitely up there, especially with the scene of him reacting to his kids growing up on the monitor...
One of my favorites: John Crichton from Farscape! Dargo is pretty awesome as well! There's also Captain Picard! Come to think of it, most of the Star Trek men fit this bill. Giles and Oz from Buffy... Oh boy, you should make a part 2!! 😍
There are three that I love. One is Dick Grayson. Although he sometimes is violent he also can get help and he inspires a team of nobodies to become the best they can. Another is Harvey Kinkle from Chilling Adventures of Sabrina because even though he didn't at first accept sabrina as a witch he later came over that and became a good friend and a positive role model. And my last one is Andrew Garfield's amazing spiderman (from the first movie the writing was kind of bad for the 2nd but he was OK in that but not as good as the 1st one) he is a good example because he starts off toxic then he becomes a good person who saves a kid from dying instead of going after the bad guy and he opens up to his aunt and Gwen.
Ok, shoot, love the mentions of LOTR characters, as well as many Trek guys, esp Sisko, but what about the iconic transformation of Hawkeye in MASH? One for the ages.
I believe Harry/Gallahad from the Kingsman movies is a prime example of positive masculinity as he is shown to be kind and caring role-model towards Eggsy and is an example of a positive view on upper class like nobility as he says "'True nobilty is being superior to your former self"'
I mostly just wanna say that I really liked this video. I watch a lot of lefty politics and occasionally toxic masculinity is brought up and the point is made that not all masculinity is toxic, etc. But I dont think I've ever seen someone dive into positive masculinity and give examples of it to illustrate the difference between positive and toxic masculinity. And that's bad optics, to many in the center and toward the right it just sounds like empty manipulation when someone says "not all masculinity toxic" but focuses only on the toxic stuff. There are a lot of people for whom this video would be good to watch. I hope you do a part 2 or even 3! As for other examples, I can't think of any that wouldnt be cliche. Mentor/sage characters are often good examples as they embody action tempered by wisdom. Sooo... Obi-Wan and even more so, Gandalf. You could probably also find good examples in Aragorn and Faramir.
I was half-expecting this video to go in the direction of "Positive masculinity is [trait that isn't masculine at all]." and was relieved that it didn't, even though you acknowledge that is what a lot of people think when they hear the phrase. It gives me hope in the idea that masculinity - in all the ways you describe it here - will eventually become more normalised, even though it may be a while before broad consensus determines it to be a net positive. As for my examples, I'd choose Stacker Pentecost from Pacific Rim, and Kamina from Gurren Lagann. Both legendary badasses who bring out the best in people around them and fight to protect the ones they love. And now that I think about it, they both bestow family titles (daughter, brother) on people they mentor. It is not by coincidence that I thought of them at the same time.
One of my favorites is Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond. He starts out as a punk kid getting into street fights, going to jail for a few months and learning nothing but eventually learning the hard truth about where that road leads. But even with that he's not completely heartless. He seems to genuinely care for his girlfriend, Dana and his friends and doesn't put up with the little guy getting beat on. I love how it reaffirms his character when he puts on that mask and realizes how he can help people as Batman. Doing what he can to help wherever he's needed.
That Rocky clip hit me like freaking freight train. I lost my mum on January 29th, and I will doubtlessly be coming back to this very video for that reason. P.S. You had me at Cap.
Brilliant & inspiring video Nathaniel. My favourite example of postive masculinity... Samwise Gamgee. Gentle, loyal, stoic, caring, full of wonder & self-deprecation.
I love this. Especially the part about the man child character... that's basically my husband lol. I consider myself lucky to have been raised by a good man. Physically intimidating biker who practiced martial arts, and yet expresses compassion, humility, and tender affection regularly.
To me, Jaune Arc from RWBY is a good representation of healthy masculinity. Or at least a character who used to have toxic traits but has since grown past them into a healthier person. Jaune refused to accept help from his partner in battle, Pyrrha when she noticed that he was struggling. He refused help when he was being blackmailed and bullied. After Pyrrha died, he focused more on being a tactician in battle. However, he wouldn't overcome his self-destructive tendencies for another few seasons. But after his other teammates confront him about it, he changes. He focuses more on defense and protecting people in the most recent 7th volume. His gear upgrades are focused all on his shield, equipping him to better help protect those around him in a healthy way.
Thank you for this video! I have an 8yr old son, while we can talk to our son about positive masculinity having extra examples for him to emulate is awesome.
Don't try and force your son to be anything he doesn't want to be. Positive masculinity can also be a 'box' Or do. Whatever. It's your son do what you want for him
For me growing up, I always saw Patrick Stewart 's Picard as a model of positivity. A kindness towards others, listening to people's input, but then making decisions.
Hmm, I feel like most of the cast of 'Angel' provides examples on both sides of the argument? Although now I've mentioned that show, Rupert Giles must be up there
Aragorn. A badass warrior who's as comfortable with a sword as he is with a poem, the man who can sing a song at his public coronation being showered with flower petals while still being badass and masculine. Book or movie, he's the embodiment of chivalry and honor.
Captain Picard in TNG era. He's the captain of the most powerful ship in the fleet of the most powerful political entity in his world. He's a military man and a stupendous badass. But he's also slow to anger, unapologetically intellectual and cerebral, always looking for the nonviolent solution to conflicts, and respectful of the intelligence, dignity, and individuality of the people under his command. He's also not afraid to confront his regrets about some of the sacrifices he made for his career.
Johnny Castle in Dirty Dancing. He's strong, defends and cares for the people in his life, and what I like is he's open about feeling used by women. A lot of movies push a man with lots of sexual experience as a real man, high fives all around, but this showed that with experience can also bring heartbreak and the emotional vulnerability. And he speaks about that. He speaks about his fears and dreams and he's not seen as weak for doing so.
Jon Luc Picard. Strong, confident, and not afraid to use force if needed but always preferring diplomacy. Also, willing to show vulnerability and compassion
Thank you for this video. It's very rare to hear someone with a proper grasp and understanding of the subject. Please, never stop being you, I think you're nearly as fantastic as me :)
I've got an example of positive masculinity. Braum from league of legends, the dude is this BIG, STRONG folk hero that can punch MF-ING MOUNTAINS while also being a big softy protecting the innocent, weak and his friends and family with himself and his shield.
Great meeting, looking good today! The first favourite male role models that come to mind for me would be Greg and Steven from Steven Universe, and Picard, Data, Spock and The Doctor from old school Star Trek. They take chances and want to protect people, but also take others into consideration, and don't want to posess their loved ones. Also their strenght isn't (mainly) based on physical strenght but empathy and logical thinking. I also really like Newt Scamander, but you mentioned him already. One of my favourite statistic showing how toxic masculinity isn't only harmful to others, but also the person themself is, that men are 7 or 8 times more likely to be struck by lightning than women. That is because wreckless behaviour (risk taking) is encouraged, so men tend to go outside more (e.g. golfing) when the weather forecast advises you to better not... Greetings from Germany.
You wanna talk older heroes, let’s talk Alex Murphy. I don’t mean Robocop, I mean Alex Murphy. That movie is both a badass action movie, and a really emotional journey about a man’s need to connect with his emotions and his identity. Heck, I think the male characters in Wizard of Oz, especially in the last moments of the film, are quite positive depictions of masculinity, especially the Cowardly Lion who learns that he is really brave.
I would say Captain Pike is a pretty good example of positive masculinity. He's decisive and confident but he also listens to the opinions of those around him. He acknowledgedes his crews emotional state isn't afraid to express his own feelings. Also, he was willing to sacrifice himself to an awful fate to save his people because he believes in "service, sacrifice, compassion, and love."
Oh oh, and another favorite: Vash the Stampede from Trigun! He’s a pacifist, but he’s always first in line to protect everyone else from the villains of the story, always working on ways to win where he doesn’t have to kill anyone.
I'm gonna throw some of the Star Trek captains in here, they embody traits that are seen as very masculine and can be very toxic, but these characters show the best sides of them. Kirk (and Riker) is famous as the archetypal roguish, two-fisted womanising adventurer, but having to resort to violence clearly weighs heavily upon him and (with some concessions to when he was written) he always has a strong respect and emotional connection to all of his love interests. Picard (and Spock) is learned and logical, but the value system behind that logic is intensely empathetic and compassionate and it doesn't stop him from forming strong bonds with his crewmembers. Sisko is probably my favourite example, it's no secret that he's got a lot of anger, but it is always righteous anger against genuine injustice, it's directed at those responsible rather than being taken out on whoever's nearby and it is matched at every turn by his love for his family and friends, his humour, his faith and his open, entirely guileless joy for his passions and hobbies.
I'm so glad you mentioned Jimmy Stewart in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington." That one sprang immediately to my mind when you started on this topic. This might sound weird, but the second one that came to my mind was Bigwig, from "Watership Down." Bigwig starts off as a bit of a bully, but by the end of the novel, he's become what I consider to be a paragon of positive masculinity,. He's strong, loyal, and willing to fight to to the death to protect the mother rabbits. Also, the section about Jake reminded me of the way Jim from "The Office" personifies positive masculine traits (other than being good at fisticuffs). Jim is playful to point of meanness (usually to Dwight), but when it comes down to it, he is thoughtful, strong, good at business when he applies himself, more loyal than not, steady, responsible, and, when it comes right down to it, kind. Finally, I'm giving a shoutout to Colonel Brandon from "Sense and Sensibility," who is not only a man of action, but protective, strong, patient, and empathetic.
I think Col Brandon tends to get portrayed that way in adaptations a little more than the character deserves. Miss Austen grew into a greater ability to depict the type as she matured.
An amazing study of positive masculity in movies and TV shows. I think no one has mentioned the ones that can be found in anime. I think Deku and Tanjiro are the most popular examples right now, but a lot of the protagonists from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure fall into that category, aswell as my favorite shounen hero of all time: Edward Elric.
Speaking of Bruce Willis, I think his character really grows in The 5th Element. I'll have to say though, Jamie Frasier in Outlander is the epitome of masculine strength and deep abiding love/self-sacrifice.
Obi Wan Kenobi: he displays great strength and will do what he must, but he does everything with a level-headedness. He cares deeply for Anakin and it pains him so much to see him fall to the dark side. In the duel on Mustafar he even admits that he failed.
my hunny asked me in exasperation if everything masculine was supposed to be bad, and now I'm gonna be able to show him this video. I tried explaining it myself, but you do so in a calm and concise way I think he'll appreciate. this video made me cry, we'll see what he thinks.
So far, my fave COG video of the year. What a great way to shift the conversation to shining a spotlight on positive examples of masculinity. Usually, this is a topic to be used as a sidebar in discussions about toxic masculinity. Spending more time focusing on where things go right rather than wrong is just so refreshing.
Thank you, Nathaniel, for doing this video! As the father of two boys at both ends of adolescence, the glorification of toxic masculinity in society and pop culture is something I worry about, but spotlighting positive masculinity is something I've tried to expose them both to. Thank you!
Charles Offdensen from Metalocalypse is kind of like John McClain in that he isn’t a perfect example by any means, but even then when violence is used it’s at least used more in the name of protecting those he cares about ie Dethklok rather than violence and strength for the sake of violence and strength (or the negligence/manslaughter that goes on at most Dethklok concerts). Although what I want to focus on is the fact that especially in later seasons while he is a pretty stoic individual he tries to be get the band to be a bit more vulnerable and honest with their emotions (probably best seen in the episode Fatherklok as well as the Season 3 finale where he admits his own shortcomings) and while the fact that he often has to be a father figure to a bunch of overgrown children is played for laughs somewhat he’s actually REALLY good at it for the most part and doesn’t feel burdened by it. Still an interesting debate as to if you can have a positively masculine character that’s a bit greyer than the norm (like I personally put him in the Lawful Neutral category) ,but he’s certainly an interesting contrast to a lot of the other male characters on the show.
What a great topic, I agree with your picks, specially Steeve Harrington. I even learned about a few ones (Rocky, John McLane) I would add, in no particular order : Ron Swanson (starts as toxic, becomes an awesome role model and a wonderful dad) Greg Universe Monkey D. Luffy Honorable real life mentions : You! Julien Solomita Eugene Lee Yang
Ron isn’t really toxic at the beginning, he just isn’t interested in having close relationships with his coworkers and has his own set of beliefs and ideals. He definitely grew throughout the show, he became closer to the person who society thinks is a good man but there wasn’t anything wrong with him to begin with.
Sarah Gent True, pretty much every character in that show is a positive example. I chose Greg because he’s the awkward human dad who tries to deal with all the unusual stuff his son goes through and though he doesn’t always understand, he is supportive and allows Steven to feel safe to be himself.
I absolutely love this video. Thanks! I’d like to add the twelfth doctor. He’s my favorite mainly because his journey of being grumpy to being lovely. But never forgetting his manly side. Want to add this. The last few months I’ve noticed something: the toxic relationships in tv shows and movies that are glorified, even seen as goals. Like Ross and Rachel, Lily and Marshall. Otis and Maeve, Claire and Jamie (and even worse; Brianna and Roger) I’m so sad this happens and people think it’s normal. Because it changes the way (young) people think about relationships. I’d love to see you doing a video of that. But at the end of the day, we’re just the council, you run the meetings ;-)
What's interesting about Jack is that he is so stereotypically masculine, and yet unabashedly gay. His character (and the actor) is absolutely brilliant.
@@cryofpaine He was also basically the same in real life when I met him at Supanova (like comicon) in Melbourne. Masculine as well as gay and very sweet to talk to.
Love this video!!!! So many people focus on the negatives but there are wonderful masculine role models out there too. I love Sam and Dean Winchester from Supernatural. They could be toxic but they grow so much as people and brothers and aren’t afraid to share emotions or talk about their fears. Another amazing example to me was Luke Perry as Fred Andrews. What a wonderful role model for a strong, moral man and good father.
I'd definitely add Captain Pike from the second season of Star Trek Discovery. He's a classic Kirk style captain, and does an excellent job of getting the crew of the discovery to trust him after the actions of their previous captain.
I'll offer up four examples, all of whom have a big part of my own story. First Casablanca shows Rick's journey from toxic to nontoxic masculinity, as you say in the video, we don't see much of how he is once the change is made, but the journey is important too. Secondly I'd like to mention He-Man, much like Superman he acts to protect, doesn't fight if he can help it, has an emotional core and in the hands of certain people can go off the rails. Power Rangers is full of examples of this, but none better than Jason the original Red Ranger, he's a strong, stoic figure that carries the weight of the world and buries his emotions, but it never falls into destructive tendencies and he is never possessive or cruel, he was following the rule of never escalate a fight unless you are forced to before he ever became a Ranger. Finally I think a mention to Angel from the Buffyverse is deserving of a mention, he hits all the traits but it is shown that he can be toxic with it and needs others to make sure he doesn't, he mostly stays on the right side of toxicity though.
