A critical look at Bayonetta 2's flaws 

Bedroom Bunny I hated that enemy with a passion

no you just suck at the game dude, lol, i love the sloths, one of the few enemies in the game that was always a proper challenge, sloths, grace, glory, if they gave me a mode where i just fight those over n over again i would spend tons of time doing just that

@@MegaBigmac87 No, I just don't like the Sloth enemies. I've got Pure Platinum rankings on all difficulties in both games.

ooo, so you are crazy at the game then fair enough, still if your that good i figured you would enjoy the sloths, since they are one of the few enemies that are actually HARD to deal with plus they have aa very diverse moveset, so u never know whats comming, trust me these things made nightmares for me at first, which made slicing them up into bits even more satifsfying

@@MegaBigmac87 I like difficulty but I wouldn't say they are hard. I find Sloths incredibly annoying and unfair. I would take an enraged Gracious and Glorious on Non-Stop Infinite Climax any day over a Sloth on Hard. They are artificially difficult because they are programmed to be the antithesis of your abilities. They dodge everything with no hesitation, have very little wind up on most of their attacks, have attacks that will hit you even if you get witch time because they NEVER flinch unless you are using Umbran Climax, and a whole host of other problems that will make this comment even longer than it already is. After getting my Pure Platinums I just use a torture attack to kill them instantly because fuck fighting those things. They singlehandedly made me hate going for Pure Platinums more than anything in Bayonetta 1. Kinships would have been preferable and that's saying a lot.

what polish does Bayo 2 have over 1, really?

@Yeti and the speed of combat as well; Whenever i play both of these games, i always say that the best bayo game would be one that has the combat system of bayo 1 and the fluidity of movement of bayo 2. One of the things that i absolutely appreciate bayo 2 over bayo 1 is that i's combat is definitely faster, emphasizing the sense of fulfillment one feels to dish out numerous combos and a blistering pace

Camera control in the second game is better.

@@Yetaxa The speed. 1 looks pretty sluggish.

@@MrMoises621 Bayo 1 looks slower than 2 only on Switch where you can experience frame rate drops in certain section, otherwhise both games are capped to 60fps. If you want to experience Bayo 1 in all its beauty and speed I suggest you to play that game on every other platforms expect PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii u (the last two have frame rate drops such as on Switch while the PS3 as many other issues). I played Bayonetta 1 on PS4 drops and then Bayonetta 2 on Switch and I can't see any difference in terms of speed and fluidity.

puu.sh/zTRgO/ba93d0fa1b.png :) This happened years ago though, because I got tagged in a conversation and he blocked everyone that was part of it.

TIL Kamiya bans have a splash radius.

I think/hope they are already aware of these critiques because they are somewhat common.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. "I really hope someone at Platinum sees this". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

toning down some of the more unnecessarily punishing elements would’ve been fine imo for example climax finishers and torture attacks being ungodly to get max bonus (seriously I’m only like 300 hours into bayonetta 1 and I’m starting to get carpal tunnel) or how the mana gauge would still drain even if you were getting true combo’d (I think the uppercut combo that GnG could do had like 4 hits that you couldn’t escape out of and the each of those hits would drain 5 mana points which is 2 full bars) but making the climax finishers/TAs easy as all hell to get max bonus was not the way to go and completely removing mana penalties for getting hit was again not the way to go (I think mana penalties shoulda worked similarly to how alfheim health worked where if you got hit there would be a short invincibility period where you didn’t take any damage but could still be staggered to prevent getting one combo’d on alfheims that weren’t one hit only which would’ve made it punishing but not so punishing it was like getting nuked) also items don’t bring down your score which means you could just chug mega invincibility lolipops and get through entire chapters without having to dodge once which again was not the way to go

WORD combat in bayo 1 was better, more technical, enemies get new moves and combos as you raise the difficulty, combat in bayo 2 was "FASTER", the higher the difficulty, the faster the action was, it just sped up the attack animations for all the enemies and projectile attacks, basically making you even more reliant on witchtime,

@@MegaBigmac87 Maybe Platinum thought that players would love the faster gameplay in which fighting is all about having to keep moving while in battle? Bayo 1 Certainly held more strength and skill especially without Witch Time. Bayo 2, however, seems to hold more speed and maneuverability while in combat, sacrificing the technical and skill based aspects that were prominent in Bayo 1...

No we just don't like elitist

@@nomight273 its okay you have to play the game on normal, you tell me the difference in infinite climax difficulties between the games

Because he dodges all of your attacks most of the time, and his attacks come out of nowhere.

Dodges everything outside of Witch time, has super armour even during witch time, can cancel recovery into attacks for seemingly no reason. They force a very defensive playstyle from the player, even more so than any other enemy in the game. They're just super boring to fight, in a normal run all I do is charge Shuraba, dodge an attack and then release PKP. Kafka does seem to hit them quite often though but good luck getting Platinum with it. I once did a Infinite Climax run without Witch Time by equipping Bracelet of Time but not using it...it was not fun, this enemy is borderline unbeatable at that point. My only option was to slowly chip away or get lucky with hitting very high damage moves, until I had enough magic to torture attack. So yeah, just take the humanoid bosses and make them even worse and you get Sloth.

Thanks, guys. I needed this.

the sloths are one of the "proper Challenges" in this game, most enemies are easy, even on harder difficulties, but those sloths on infinite climax difficulty............ooooo man, i know what you mean,m but trust me if there is a will there is a way, i loved fighting those things, but they didnt make it easy...which was kinda the point

@@MegaBigmac87 they are difficult, but its because they're basically grace and glory on ketamine. Sloth has a varied moveset, but its insanely fast and can catch you immediately after witch time ends, which is very annoying in a game that values using witch time so much. It dodges everything and has super armor, so your only options are torture attack, umbran climax, or witch time (which we've already established is unreliable). But because you can't hit them, how are you gonna get magic? The lollipops, but where is the skill/fun in shoving a million lollipops up your butt and using it to set off a nuke? To me, they're just very annoying and borderline not fun to fight against

IKR

When I did witch trial 5 in bayonetta 2 I could barely even keep track of all the enemies because they all attacked at once.

this comment makes no god damn sense. They made the angels ruthless meaning you couldn't focus one at a time and THAT MAKES IT CLUNKY? any other time this would be considered a con of any fighter "why do they only attack one at a time" and here you are crying when they actually add more than one fighter.

@@frogradar it’s bad game design no matter how much you try to convince hope . The fact that the enemies are constantly attacking you and not giving you any chance to breathe would be nice if it were any other game but it’s bayonetta and the combo system relies on using different combos and different setups. you can’t do that when you have to dodge OUT of your witch time to stop yourself from being bounced around by enemies like a deranged pinball . It’s clunky because it makes you unsure of your next inputs therefore forcing a player into a box of dodging relentlessly. In B1 affinities would attack you with a slower windup and only two would attack at once so you had time to get WT and then finish and begin your next combo . You’re stripped of any combo freedom in this game completely because of the crackhead enemy balancing.

@@jamallox1125 just dodge

Dude don't bother using Gaze of Despair ever. There is no reason to. You don't need the additional combo points of enraged enemies in this game because combo's don't become stale anymore, enraged enemies no longer give extra magic, and enraged enemies give you almost 0 witch time now. All you are doing is letting enemies hit you harder, faster, and give you less with time for no benefit.

Balder story more mod for bayonetta 2 please !!

Because it's still a great game, it just has some serious balance issues that become apparent when the difficulty increases.

But is Bayo 2's combat system better for casuals than Bayo 1's combat system on easy?

Except Jeanne’s uppercut wicked weave attack, that shit sometimes comes out of nowhere, like blink and you’ll miss it kinda thing. Obviously this isn’t as bad as the bayo 2 bosses (nothing can be that bad, I’d hope) since it’s at least manageable compared to the lumen sage who I really think is the biggest offender of bullshit attacks, I don’t think anything can be worse or as bad as him.

JickBoi 308 I agree

This is also issue. Many people just complete game once and done with it. I also liked the game when I first done it on Wiiu, but now trying to unclock more stuff//PP in bayonetta 2 on switch you can clearly see all the problems.

feralbeast67 Yea I played Bayo 1 first and got destroyed on normal. I didn’t even try hard. I went to to and felt how nice and smooth the game felt and did way better on hard mode than normal in bayo 1. After getting some platinum trophies in 2 I went back to one on hard mode and immediately got trashed on chapter 1, however I eventually got really good at bayo 1 and thought and enjoyed it a lot more on hard mode. I played hard mode twice in bayo 1. I found out things like dodge offset and perfect countering naturally by playing on hard mode. I then went to bayo 2 and the game felt so weird to me. I realized every single problem explained in this video. I hope astral chain and Bayo 3 will be much better.

Wrong

If you can't land a combo then you have to work on dodge offset

Well I mean if you even had to heal that would basically mean you were damaged I think the item penalty is good to prevent shit like in bayonetta 2 where you can literally spam the yellow moon lollipop (which turns you *invincible* btw) and not get punished for it AT ALL I tried it and I GOT A PURE PLATINUM, does that sound like good balancing to you?

No it isn't. Sorry that a game designed to be replayed didn't give you a Pure Platinum on your first playthrough that you weren't going to get anyway because you needed to heal damage from getting hit.

and dont forget the figure skates or the lightsaber......none of which made it into the 2nd game....SAD

Honestly I love 2’s variety in weapons the problem that they seem to have run into with this is that some weapons feel extremely situational to downright useless. While I wish 1 had variety, at least I found each weapon useful and knew that if I tried to use it, it’d be viable regardless. I do hope we still have variety in 3 but the weapons don’t feel niche or useless.

I had to change the script around a lot to not sound like just another ranter, definitely was the hardest part when making this video. Eagerly awaiting Bayonetta 3. As long as it takes the good parts from both games and leaves out all the bad, I'm sure it will turn out great.

Yeah I'm disappointed with Bayo 2, haven't played B1 in eons so I'm not sure if it had the same issues as the sequel..

Yeah that is exactly the problem. Like the whip in 2 looks cool but in the first game it had way more functions. I think they tried to improve on this a bit by giving some weapons different special moves on the same input, but since the game stops you from doing anything stylish it really just makes those moves useless. I think they can definitely improve even more on weapon functions and uniqueness in Bayo 3, but that's a topic I will be discussing in the next video.

Daedron12 can't wait, I really enjoyed this vid.

I'm glad those are gone, they have no place in an action game like this.

They are. But how does that make Bayonetta 2 better? Imagine if it was the first entry in the series or even Bayonetta 1 did not simply existed? That doesn't excuse other things at all.

Bayo 1 elitists tend to ignore those on purpose

"I'm glad those are gone, they have no place in an action game like this." Guess you didn't see what I wrote. No one likes the QTE's, but just because they're gone doesn't make Bayo 2 the better game.

Now I have not played Bayonetta 2 yet since I am relatively broke right now but will get to it someday. One thing that really annoyed me in Bayonetta 1 where the burning enemies. On Hard and lower they where no big deal thanks to witch time but on Infinite Climax they where so dam annoying.

He was the enemy's visual designer, not their gameplay designer.

Also near the end of Bayo2, couldn't figure out why Balder is supposed to dance. Then after hitting an inifiniton punch, I still need gigaton bites to finish it? Comeon you must have other ways for Jeanne to make an appearance...

sinshenlong now that you know, what do you think of Bayonetta 2 now?

I actually totally disagree with you on the story front. To me it seemed that the only real thrust of the story was that Baldur was too flamboyantly portrayed in Bayo 1 to have been believably boning Bayonetta's mom, so this game had to do the time warp and say that back in the day he was this handsome, bishy guy, who only later went coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs. That's... pretty much it. That's why I think other publishers were turning the game down. There's very little substance to make a full game out of. The big bad, aside from being completely forgettable, has a story with some really crappy retcons to Bayo 1's story. Jeanne's whole kidnapping story was underwhelming and Bayonetta losing control of her powers felt neither properly explained not resolved. Loki was such a terrible character, I found myself exclaiming "thank god he showed up" when Luka appeared, because as much of an annoyance as he was in Bayo 1, he's still so superior to anything in Bayo 2 that his entrance felt refreshing. I could say the same about how Bayo 2's enemy design is so bland that they needed to recycle Bayo 1's enemies in order for the game to deliver a shred of players feeling anything close to a "rewarding" sensation. I was also severely disappointed with the part of the game where you go to Hell. With the way Bayonetta, Jeanne, Rodin and his bar are portrayed versus the more monstrous angels, I was expecting Hell to be far more stylish. If you told me back in the days of Bayo 1 that Bayo 2 would have the player go to Hell, I'd tell you I wouldn't be surprised if Satan was a genuinely fun character designed after Graham Norton or something. What they did in Bayo 2 was the living definition of bland. It was empty, covered in thorns, and the worst that section has to throw at you is the flower lady which was stupid down to a conceptual level. Alraune's whole beef with Madama Butterfly and that being the reason Bayonetta was losing control of her powers is never properly explained in-game, and is also fairly tangential to the game's actual plot. So to me, Bayo 1's story is vastly superior to Bayo 2's train wreck of a narrative. That's without even getting into how much shorter Bayo 2 is. It's story is so short that it could've just been a DLC expansion for Bayo 1. I remain resolute that had it not been packaged with Bayonetta 1, and were released as a $10 standalone game a la that one Infamous standalone thing with the vampires, people would get it because it's more Bayonetta but then immediately start questioning whether it was worth the price of admission. That's how substanceless it is, and due to the story not really pushing things forward, it's an entirely skippable part of the franchise. Not really what I would call "sequel" material in a trilogy. I'm also going to dock points from Bayo 2 for how it removes a lot of the videogame-y fanfare from Bayo 1. Bayo 1 was gender-bent Devil May Cry, down to Bayonetta's one-liners being FROM Devil May Cry, and her Ebony and Ivory pistols. What set it apart from being PURELY that was how much love and appreciation it had for the history of videogames, from Eggman's funeral (as it was a Sega-published title) to the Road Rash-inspired motorcycle segment to the missile-riding Space Invaders-esque segment, even down to the arcade-style mini games between the levels. Bayo 2 not only removes ALL of that, but it commits an even bigger sin... what it replaces it with. You get these parts in the game where you ride the jet or ride the horse in those on-rails segments. Being a hardcore Bayo 1 player, it just felt like they were going, "oh hey, remember that cool motorbike sequence from Bayo 1?" and then not only gave you something that wasn't as good... but made you do it TWICE... EACH! There are two pairs of segments like this which only exist to be references to how Bayonetta 1 did it better. Most of the game feels that way to me, especially when they bring back Bayo 1 enemies later. Aside from the few newer enemy additions, most of the game's enemies just feel same-y in the design, compared to Bayo 1's variety. Part of me feels like this entire game was made using unused or left-over assets from Bayo 1 that didn't make the cut into the final game. Bayo 2's snake form even has the Bayo 1 hair style. Personally-speaking, I LOVE Bayonetta 1... but feel it's kind of like the Matrix in that we didn't need a sequel. Bayonetta 2 had the opportunity to push the franchise forward... but then didn't. It retconned and tried to re-explain things from Bayonetta 1 and used time travel to give us a prequel, or a pre-sequel, if you will. It's not substantive enough for me to even recognize it as a proper sequel to Bayonetta 1, which IMHO didn't need one. I do not want Bayo 3. I'd rather get Vanquish 2, considering how a propos it would be what with current events and all. I personally feel Bayo 3 should be cancelled. Just having more for the sake of more doesn't make it necessary, and 2 didn't really open the flood gates for another entry, so there's very little point in beating a dead horse, if you ask me.

I hope the government of Cambodia sees this video

Just realized something. People compare UC to Devil Trigger from DMC, but if you fuck around in DT, mashing buttons, not thinking about what attacks change up your combo or are good for the current situation, not only will your style ranking be garbage, you’ll have wasted your DT. UC is closer to Sin Devil Trigger in DMC5, but EVEN SDT, A FORM LITERALLY MEANT TO GIVE YOU ABSURD LEVELS OF POWER is balanced out by taking longer to attain then DT, not lasting as long as DT, not healing you like DT, and draining your entire DT meter just to be able to access SDT. Even in SDT, your style meter won’t raise if you just mash one button over and over, and you’re encouraged to use the few unique moves SDT has to benefit you in the current fight. The basic SDT combo can be weaved in between other moves, sin stinger and the Luce are good at taking out far away targets, obliteration can take out 1 powerful enemy, but takes so long to use that you won’t have SDT for long after using it, and judgement is likely to kill most if not all of the enemies in screen, and probably the only attack in the game that is good in EVERY situation, but even that sacrifices your entire SDT meter. And even after THAT, you have the ability that lets you revert back from SDT on command, but only if your style meter is currently at SSS (imagine that, being REWARDED for skillful play instead of punished). Now take all of that considered, we’ll balanced design, and compare it to UC, where you hit L, and spam a button. The more I think about UC, the more I realize how much of a fucking disgrace it is.

​@@TDJunkie226 I also compare them, but i called it a shallow version of DT, like they look at it superficial parts like oh just it's a build up and punish super mode and that's it. And since they removed magic removal on hit it makes this mechanic not risk/reward but reward/reward.

And now he’s left the company 🙃

majukun Wait, isn’t Kamiya the director of both games?

Nah. He directed the first game. I think he only wrote the story for the second

No elitist

I'm quite positive about Bayonetta 3, despite some flaws carrying over to 2. Time ranking way too strict. Enemy tells not distinct enough (just the flash again) Enemies can now all attack off-screen as well which is ridiculous sometimes considering how much shit is going on. I'll do a small video about Bayonetta 3 later.

@@Daedron12 yah them hitting you from off screen is retarded. The on screen rule in 1 was perfect. Enemies were all fast enough that they never struggled to get on screen.

​@@Daedron12 Overall I like how Demon Masquerade overrides both the old Wicked Weave combo-ender system and Umbran Climax. However, there's no meter penalty for using command specials other than that you're sabotaging your clear time. I would have settled for moves using up some meter in return for it dealing a lot more damage to the heavies, because as it stands there's no reason NOT to just clear the screen with Demon Slave.

Yeah, the audio cues are only there for the small humanoids, but not for anything else. It's massively jarring when you're fighting a group because you prioritize dodging/parrying little guys instead of the bigger ones that are doing a lot more damage. The visual cues are lost to the on-screen visual pollution.

​@@DaveFallows I don't understand, why game that is 12 years old have better audio and visual cues than the game that is a week old. They still think that B2 design with copy-pasted wink sound is so distinct and cool.

They could keep Witch time as it is in Bayo 2 length-wise but just not make it required to do any fancy stuff. Alternatively Witch Time length could be shorter/longer depending on difficulty, where Normal gives Bayo 1 length and Hard gives Bayo 2 length for example. Removing it on the highest difficulty could still be a thing but it's not needed (though it does make the game more exciting IMO). As long as the game isn't completely balanced around it, it's fine.

The new practice mode was a step in the right direction but they can do so much more, hopefully in Bayonetta 3 we will see a fully fleshed out training room with lots of options (enemy spawning/infinite HP/etc.)

@@Daedron12 Hey! and we're here... 4 years on... let's hope the training room (if there is one) is better this time! Once again this was a wonderful video to come back to. One thing I had recently been thinking about was how the sound design really took a step back with B2, especially in regard to wicked weaves. They sound so much less powerful. All I can say is props to the B1 sound designer. They really smashed it!

Bayonetta 2 is garbage.

@@TheKareem1212 no it's not

@@TheKareem1212 you need to get a life

@@nomight273 Why are you replying to 2 year comments? How about you grow up and stop being triggered by people's opinions on games. Bayonetta 2 is a terrible game. Get over it.

Fighting Jeanne in 1 really just comes down to your reflexes, since there's not many ways to cheese it. Moon of Mahaa-kala is really good because it gives you a guaranteed hit every time you block one of Jeanne's attacks. As for the 2nd game, if you really want it easy you can use Bracelet of Time and use Salamandra or Alruna. With proper timing you can keep the bosses in hitstun for the majority of the fight so you won't ever get hit, and Salamandra's damage output is so high it should give you back enough magic to never run out. With the whip you just grab and slam them, and repeat until they die. Watching some PP runs will probably give you more insight as well.

Because it look's more flashy, overall it's more easy and it got rid of some annoying things. But overall combat is a step down, i've not been with the series during Bayo 2 OG release, but for a 5 years i've yet to hear any convincing arguments towards Umbran Climax, countering enemies or what was even "inaccessible" in Bayo 1.

@@saaaaaaaaadasda interesting, I always thought Bayonetta 1's animations looked more refined, had more versatility and flare, had far superior enemy design, and better sound design. All that, in addition to being longer and more substantial overall.

​@@JoeyFTL I didn't see any downgrade in animation, i thought they are on par, i think they probably used the same mocap equipment and actress for animation. I think special-effects are better in B2, even though they are the reason why framerate on Wii U was unstable to say the least. Problem is, with the main goal or refining, streamlining and "not fixing what isn't broken" they actually broke things at the end of the day. Some things were removed for no reason, like secret kiss move on lock-on, or dodge-roll on said lock-on. Umbran Portal was also removed, why? I guess it's too tactical for a game like this. Same with armor concept and other things. They also muffled her punches sounds, don't know why, there's so much attention to music, i don't understand why are they botched punching sounds. Don't disagreee on enemy design either. About length, i think there is a theory that was, not rushed but not being release at it's full potential, since development is stopped halfway though due to SEGA financial problems and this is where Nintendo steps in. There's actually an old interview, where they said pretty specific thing - Nintendo didn't pressure them, but they listened closely to what they said.

I'd just prefer if they balanced the Magic in he game better. With the reduced magic orb gain you are incentivised to only use it on the most powerful ability, which is Umbran Climax. There's no reason to use any other accessory or Torture Attacks, there's no reason to use Tetsuzenko or Heel Stop. It locks you into one-way play style if you want to actually get Pure Platinums without puling your hair out. Make the magic gain more akin to Bayonetta 1, make Umbran Climax more expensive (maybe needing 3 full bars and it's a reward you unlock late game or something), make enemies more vulnerable to your standard attacks and the largest problem in this game is fixed.

Because pretty lady

Wrong

discord.gg/a6rSBwr This is the only one I know of.

Making a video before Bayo 3 releases is not on my list anymore. I am planning on streaming the game on day 1 at least. If anything, I might do a review/critical look on Bayo 3 after it's been out for a while. But for now I'm just laying low and praying that the game will be good.

@@Daedron12 alright, I’m. Glad you’re ok!

@@Daedron12 Same. Please be good, FFS.

didnt you memorize all the qtes after so many hours of play ?

@@tobiasarevalo9929 if there comes a time that you learn all of them, what happens that sometimes in Bayonetta 1 the buttons are sometimes random ... in case Bayonetta 2 is always the same.

@@BayonettaStuff not really,most actions are either jumps with (a) or actions with(x) and grabs are (x and y)

I liked how bayonetta 1’s chapters were longer.

@tobias arevalo What’s the point in a quick time event I can’t react to? It’s just beginners traps.