A Dabble With DCC 

The way I set volume is to consider the scale and my scale distance from the loco. If I generally view from about 3 ft, that is a scale 250 ft. I then set the sound to be about the volume I would hear from 250 ft from a real loco - audible, but not very loud. Then if I want loud, I just put myself very close to the model.

I've got a lot of older locos too and can't manage to convert them all anytime soon. However, I've created a DC loop layout with sidings, etc. but also a DCC outer loop with a couple of sidings too. Basically, my upline is DCC and my downline is DC with no connection between the 2. That means I can run all my locos when I want to. The Hornby Select is not the easiest or most compatible DCC controller but it should give you a taste of what can be done with DCC. Cheers!

I enjoyed this video, Bill. I got into DCC just a couple of years ago. I have one of my locos equiped for sound, but I enjoy DCC mostly for the improved slow motor control without the annoying motor hum that goes with some DC shunting throttles. Many modellers over here in the US are also annoyed by the sound and eventually mute it. However, I just set the master volume down low enough that it isn't bothersome. And I've found that proper adjustment of the starting voltage, accel rate, and decel rate can result in very nice operation, but the settings will depend on the motor and drive train and some experimentation is needed. Cheers from Wisconsin!

I agree with the noise factor Bill. You could run it with the sound disabled. Cheers Peter

I only just started with DCC but im enjoying it 😊

Great video . I moved over to dcc 9 years ago and would never go back . Even though it is more expensive. Same as changing to electro frog points with motors . Much better ruing for smaller locos .

I'm staying with DC for the foreseeable future. I like to run my older locomotives. I can't imagine what a number of locomotives would sound like all going at once. I'm usually an early adopter of new technology but the cost of conversion would be too high for me. Thanks for showing. Regards Paul.

Yes, I built an extensive DC layout thinking DCC was not for me. Then I tried Hornby’s HM7000 system. Result: all section wiring and switches pulled out; feeds joined together to convert whole system to live and a brilliant new world of operation resulted. Old locos can be easily converted - you lose nothing in going DCC.

People get put off by the intimidating looking CV settings. As someone who built your own PCs you will understand this analogy. Some people buy a PC, switch it on and just use it as it came from the shop. Others want to get into the weeds, changing colour schemes, overclocking the CPU and tweaking memory timings etc, etc. The detailed CV settings you refer to is for those who want to dive in and tweak every last detail. The electronic equivalent of rivet counters perhaps 😉Most DCC users set the loco ID number and thats that.

I have found your channel very informative and enjoy it very much. I run DC and as I build my layout came to an early decision that with well laid clean track, a lubricated loco and in my case Gaugemaster controllers you could easily match the slow smooth running of DCC. As with you I also prefer to watch the trains not the phone or tablet. But for those who like tech enjoy this great hobby.

I agree with you regarding the sound Bill Good on you for having a play Nick Australia

CV values can be read back, so if you want you can check what the decoder settings are (This may not be possibly with the early Select, depending on firmware version) Bear in mind the Select is also an entry level controller. Of course the simple thing is just overwrite with the values you want, then it doesn't matter. Sound doesn't work well when it's too loud, and of course most of us fit better quality speakers.

Tried DCC for a month then it was GONE I grew up with DC had DC for over 40 yrs and love the old ways .

Good video 00Bill. Most people running dcc have their sound CV's set way to high and it takes over but it should not do that. If you were to drop your sound CV down to about half of the current setting you would find a lot of difference as it would not be so offensive and would provide a much more pleasant experience. Sound is meant to enhance the operating experience not spoil it. I am not sure about the quality of the Hornby DCC Controller but it is probably like everything else. In time you would get used to it.

The only reason many choose DCC is for the sound. Kato has the Sound Box that works with any DC controller or power pack that also has an accessory terminals to power it. Kato also has a rather expensive Smart Controller that connects to the Sound Box that gives Bluetooth wifi controls with your Android or IOS devices. Much cheaper to use your existing DC controllers or their regular DC controller. Kato’s DC solutions are very popular in Japan because the limited space means setting up and tearing down your temporary table top layouts. But, you will need a separate sound box for every controller. Bluetooth technology allows quick swapping of locomotives, even on a different blocks, but Sound Box is only paired with the trains on the blocks it is connected to.

It’s quite brilliant when it starts to move with the appropriate sounds

Hi Bill, As a DCC sound person I will say this. Hornby TTS sound is not the best of quality hence the budget price. The 28mm round speakers are rather naff too. Most of the CVs you'll never need to deal with, the normal ones are CV1= Short address (1-127) CV2 Start voltage CV3 Accel CV4 Decel CV5= top speed. If you want an address higher than 127, 128-9999, it brings CVs 18&19 in to play, but when you set the address the system should write these for you. The volume CV is certainly useful as most are set too loud from the factory. Keep up the great work & love watching the updates on your new layout. Regards Brian

Interesting comment when you said that without steam belching out it doesn’t seem right. I’ve only just tried one of the new hm7000 sound chips, and that was my exact thought. With the sound you naturally expect actual steam too, and without it there’s a strange disconnect. I switched the sound over to a diesel and that seems not to bother my odd sensibilities half as much! Thanks again for a great upload. And Maud did run beautifully smoothly…

Learning as you go

While DC is a lot more simple to operate (most of my collection is actually DC), I truly enjoy how DCC Sound can REALLY bring more life to a model, and allows you to run multiple models in different directions and speeds without requiring more than one controller! I do agree however, hearing chuffing sounds from a steam locomotive but not seeing any steam or smoke does seem odd

Hey Bill, I run DC and DCC on my layout. I just use a two way switch from the power bus from the track and switch between the DC controller and the DCC controller. Just have to remember to get the DC locos off the layout before turning the switch over to DCC. That is easy to manage with my layout. Maybe some DC isolated sidings might work.

Hi Bill, Even though we were filming the same layout at GETS one year it was strange seeing such an experienced modeller trying something for the first time but dcc and sound bought me back to the hobby after 50 years and now run my Hornby trainset using Dcc with iTrains control with a computer the Hornby dcc controllers are fiddy to use and there are far better ones on the market along with better sound set ups although the Hornby TTS one in this (I have one also) were 1/3rd the price of the expensive ones but thats the great thing about this hobby it can satisfy whatever you want to do. Cheers Robert.

Very interesting Bill thanks for sharing

Once you dip your big toe into DCC you’ve gotta dive in. Welcome to DCC! I have converted my old triang and Hornby locos, steam and diesel to DCC. I don’t run any sound chips. Rgds from Down Under

Hey Bill, Just another important bit of DCC tourist information for you - Don't use the Hornby set track DC power track(R8206) use DCC one (R8241) with the Select = or any other DCC controller for that matter. The little capacitor or whatever circuitry is in R8206 can interfere with the commands being sent to the loco's which can create disasters on the layout!!

Well done Bill! Nice to see you giving it go. I can totally see that converting hundreds of old locos to DCC is a complete non starter. I now now have lots of old locos in boxes while lots of new ones run round my DCC layout 😁😁. You can (and I have) successfully convert some old locos (notably Hornby and Lima Ringfield motors) using CD motors which makes them run smoother than a cashmere codpiece! As others have said, the sound from TTS decoders with a basic speaker is not great nor can you regulate the chuff rate to match wheel rotation. Maybe some kind should will donate you a Zimo decoder with a decent speaker!

I agree. I love the idea of a constant voltage to the track and being able to run multiple trains independent of each other. I also would hate that sound all the time. My tinnitus would go mad. Good video. 😊

Hi 👋🏻 Bill. I did laugh when you jumped when that steam engine came alive 🤣 DCC is expensive and I’ve tried it and the sound does get too you eventually. But regards running your locomotives smoothly it’s great 👍🏻 Glad even you found the instructions mid boggling 🙄

Had to giggle when I saw you trying to turn off the coal shovelling surprised you didn’t just knock it off the track.

Just DC for me thanks for the video J

DCC is excellent when you get multiple locos running, to be able to run locos aswell as slow shunting in a siding at the same time it’s quite something for realism!

The fireman went mad and shoveled the entire tender coal load into the firebox 😂 Not for me either, as you said the lack of steam and smoke makes it seem a bit weird. I couldn’t afford to convert all my ancient stuff (even if it was compatible) anyway. If someone comes up with a realistic and reasonably priced system with sound and smoke effects (unlikely) I might consider it, otherwise not for me. DC cab control is easy to set up and gives me all the operational flexibility I want.

Personally I agree with you on sound. I think I'd find it irritating after a while. I prefer to play some background music when running trains. A free alternative is to play some general steam tracks of trains running. There are plenty on RU-vid. Mouldy Raspberry has some great sound tracks to his running session videos which have so much more than just the locos sound. Of course these don't mesh with my indiviual locos, but if what you want is general atmosphere and ambience then I think they're better. That highlights the other issue I have with sound on locos, it's done in isolation. In reality there should be other background sounds: Birds singing, traffic, etc. At a station they'll be the slam of carriage doors, the murmur of passengers, announcements so without those things as well it doesn't sound quite right to me. Then of course is the added cost of sound. In any case with the advent of bluetooth systems such as Hornby's HM7000 I think we'll see people moving away from DCC in the coming years as it's far less faff and expense. Once they bring it out for Android I'll give that a try, rather than DCC.

the great thing about it is that if you have four locos on a regular oval and you apply power with DC they all go round the oval at once . not with dcc hell you can even drive up to the "failed" four p and shunt it into a siding with your 08

Oh dear…careful, it’s a slippery slope, Bill.😂BTW, I run DC on my home layout. Thanks for posting!

Dear Sir, This was a great video. I had a laugh with your reactions and DCC is truly amazing. However, it is not suitable for me. The controllers and decoders are excessively expensive here where i live. Although they may sound amusing at first, this kind of noise irk me more than DC motor noises. I can only imagine the impact they have on a musician's ears. Have fun! Cheers from Brazil! Edit #1: I heard from DCC people that, after a time, they shut down the sounds, as it becomes irritating. Edit #2: The great advantage DCC offers is obtainable with a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) feed to a regular DC electric configuration.

Only got DCC because the model railway club has it, certainly makes it easy to run multiple loco’s on the line at the same time. I bought the same DCC box for my little layout at home, Digikeijs DR5000, using my iPad as a wifi throttle.

I run European HO, three rail, mainly Marklin. The quality of the equipment varies greatly, with Marklin DCC the screen displays the F0 to F29 plus. I find I prefer DCC over DC, it gives better control over the locos, the sound is ok but the level of sound does need a lot of control

Hi Bill brilliant video I’m like you rather stick to dc the locomotive sounds good but I don’t think I could stand that noise all the time keep up your great work and videos looking forward to your next video Bernard

Nice one Bill. Now I know what I would look and sound like if I tried DCC! I can see the benefits of DCC however like you have too many older locos from Hornby Dublo, Triang, Lima, Mainline and so on to convert. I know it can be done but feel I have other priorities and places where I would like to spend time and lots of money, if I had any!?

You can change the volume with the controller, and fitting a different speaker can change the way it actually sounds. Your loco' sounds poor because it has a very basic speaker fitted, and it's probably set too loud. I have a number of loco's with sound, but I wouldn't want them all to have it. I think it might be overpowering. I've swapped various speakers for different sound quality. It's a simple soldering job. All you need is a speaker that fits. I've used i-phone, laptop and sugar cube speakers, all cheap. I always turn the volume down to tolerable levels. I'm no electronics engineer, but I can generally find my way around in a DCC environment. I suspect most people can, but many won't try. They don't know what they're missing, but there are other reasons for not switching which I can understand, the expense of fitting decoders to a large collection of locomotives for one...

DC is much simpler and fits well with the aim of restoring and running older locos - with no more than a couple running at the same time - which are not always convertible to DCC. Love the outtake - its happened to me too!

Did you ever see Oscar Paisley's channel? Hexwas using the old Zero 1 system for a while which is a good orecursor for DCC. Theres a system called an ABC shuttle that means you can set up the loco to shuttle back and forth and do station stops by adjusting CVs and that might work on your end to end line.

I also have tinnitus and find DCC sound fitted locos rather nasty to listen to - I might still give the DCC++ EX open source system a go, as it looks a) cheap and b) simple to build and install.

If you're going to start with the cliff hangers I'm out of here! Apart from that, when I hear the panting I want to smell the smoke - failing that a traditional clickety-clack is good enough for me!. It's nice to see how the other half live, though.

Omg that near crash at the end made my heart stop for a second! That's the kinda thing that puts me off DCC lack of instant control.

Oh yes Bill, I remember that feeling well. So that is what DCC is all about, is it worth it? All that extra hassle of wiring and understanding how to use it, never mind programming each locomotive to get the sound right etc. I run a double track layout and have 1 track which can be either DC or DCC, depending which controller I plug in. When it running well it is great and get attention from folk around. DC is easier!!

Yep Dc for me too

Thanks for confirming all my suspicions. That sound IS awful, and I like to control the trains myself... thanks for Doing the Dabble. DC forever!

The 03 address is the factory default for all decoder chips and chip fitted locos (allegedly).

I'm with you on the sound. Besides the quality the 'chuffing' bears no relation to wheels.

If you want to be frightened away from DCC, take a look at some of Charlie Bishop's RU-vid vids, and especially the extra magic boxes and wiring . Don't get me wrong, I love Charlie and he does explain the electronics well. But by gum, the costs! I'm sticking with analogue N gauge.....

I was very hesitant to convert to DCC, but having done so I have to say it provides me with a great deal of flexibility and makes it far more enjoyable to operate my railway. I wont go into all the advantages as all it takes is to Google DCC-V-DC. Cheers Greg

Diamond crossings would give impression of intergrated tracks but you can still run dc and dcc through the same piece of track ;) tah dahhhhhhh

It doesn't matter what number a previous owner has assigned a loco- just pick your own number and change the address to that.

Neat seeing someone who has been in the hobby a long time and only used DC now trying out DCC for the 1st time. That Hornby Command Station is...well...I have to say a bit crummy and crude to others out there. I would call it a "starter command station" or something that comes in a set from Hornby. I apologize for how long this is too, but I wanted to try and go as in depth as I could before you might find some confusing problems. The speaker in Maude there sounds horrific and I think that mainly is because the model might be old. Either that or it really is just a super cheap speaker. The master volume setting CAN be changed, but of course your going to need to figure out how to with that particular decoder. I found it funny that you laughed at the default address being set to 3. I honestly have no idea (nor can I remember) why that is, but it is just standard through most of the companies around no matter the country. I can't imagine you might want to run sound with your ear problems either, but you can genuinely make them so quiet, they'll be as quiet as a train just running around with the click clacking. In America our "mute" button is Function 8, but I'm not sure about European or British models, heck it even can depend on the decoder brand. About running a DC loco on the DCC command station as well. You can do it, though it isn't recommended like they said. The reason is the command station uses EMULATED DC, not actual DC current. It outputs AC still, but something a DC loco will respond to. Even with the new models, the motors still run on DC. How this is possible is because the decoder also converts the AC current in the track to DC current before it enters the motor. This is why you can put in the DC dummy plug into the models and it still runs fine. Now CV's, Configuration Variables as they are called, are what tell the decoder what to do. Decoders are called such because they decode the message the command station sends through the track to it. They're rather complicated with how they work as they more or less run off binary coding (if you know what that is, which I'm sure you do). They have to add up to a certain number within their memory to function properly. Every time you power one on, they will do what is called a "check sum". If the CV numbers correctly add up to the expected values the decoder is looking for, it will function normally. Otherwise they might reset themselves if an unexpected sum number is met. I assure you these kinds of resets are extremely uncommon, and generally are from faulting programming by a manufacturer (aka a defective decoder which I have had from a company over here in the USA called Broadway Limited Imports). The only way to solve this problem is to just replace the decoder. The decoder will still function of course, but after that reset all your specific settings will be gone and another reset might happen again down the road due to various factors. Shorting on your layout for extended periods of time is also bad for a decoder of course. It can cause issues or unexpected things, like a loco suddenly shooting forward at full speed as an example. Small, uncommon, shorts won't usually cause many, if any, issues to a decoder. Most command stations are actually equipped with short detection systems inside them to shut themselves off it they detect shorts in a layout. Digitrax's do this, though the "Zephyr Extra" (starter command station from Digitrax, but much more advanced then one that might come in a retail starter set) one that I have doesn't do it 100% of the time from my testing. Their other full command stations do this 100% of the time. Obviously the best way to solve this is by putting in fuses that can blow or other systems (like surge protection) in place if power gets well beyond what it should. Pretty much all this stuff runs at 12 to 14 volts, which is what the command station should output. If you'd like to delve into programming via a computer (laptop or desktop) JMRI (Java Model Railroad Interface) is a good place to get started, and it's free! It makes it much easier to program as the software does all the hard bits like setting all the various CVs to the correct values for you without having to find that 1 thing you want to change in the sea of CV values. This is simplified but: You just input what values you want to program, press a "program" button and you can select whether it just does the page your on or all of them. (There are multiple pages for various things, like the motor's configuration, etc). JMRI also has plenty of RU-vid tutorials on it out there from all around the world so don't worry if your intimidated by it. If you'd want to change the CVs without a computer, you'll just need to look at the instructions on how to do so provided by the manufacturer (like you found with Hornby's). And finally, I can recommend RU-vidrs, channels, guides, etc, on anything if you would ever need it and feel free to ask for help if needed. I'm 22 and grew up with old postwar O gauge Lionel trains, so heck, wrapping my own head around this when I finally got into it almost 8-9 years ago was something. It is quite amazing how technology has developed in the past 20 years, even with me being rather young. P.S. While I am writing thing I've remembered that I've not even run one of my models in over 4 months due to work and just life getting in the way in general, lol. - Nick

Nice video Bill i like the slow starts but i can do that no problem with my Gaugemaster controllers anyway,and the sound would annoy me !

Good luck with that Bill, 2 much Jiggery Faffery for me Bruv 😜

I am sticking with DC

Ime like you Bill, an analog man, but I’ve got to admit in a public display layout DCC certainly adds a lot of realism to the movement and some sounds _ I can see how folk get hooked on it

Well done! I agree that the sound can be offensive. It should be possible to turn the volume down. That said I have 40 locos and only have one with sound. I hardly ever turn it on though. Personally I find the Hornby dcc controllers to be very clunky and hard to use. I have a NCE controller which is much more intuitive to use as far as I am concerned.

@bill... 😂😂😂 That save at the end 😁... Guessing the fail safe doesnt work for dcc then? 😂

Full marks for at least giving DCC a go, it's not for everyone,I have to confess that although I have DCC on my layout, I took the opportunity to wire it also for DC twin tracking running also,so I have the best of borh worlds,but I am not able to run both at the same time however.

You can turn the volume down be adjusting the CV

The default 03 address is to cope with simply adding a loco to a train set which comes with locos 1 & 2. You don't need to know the current address to change an address. Most decent DCC controllers allow read back of CV values including the address. The Select doesn't. Also be aware that locos could be addressed in the 1-9999 range but higher numbers can't be addressed by the Select. So I suggest if anyone sends a DCC loco to you, you ask them to change the address to something

I would recommend an ESU chip with a nice sugar cube speaker. They have great sound that is balanced. TTS is just not very good. Hornby make the sound as loud as possible.. they don’t make sure it’s nice and clear!!

Dcc good for exhibitions may be

good vid c

I think I will order a Gaugemaster q4.😊

The buttons on that controller might need to be cleaned on the inside, happens with rubber buttons all the time, i had a TV remote that was like that and cleaning the board and the back of the buttons with alcohol did the trick, there might be better products to clean but it's what i had at hand and the remote was old anyway heheh That coal shoveling noise was something out of a horror movie 😅

Just reset the decoder. You can do that by setting a value to a CV.

I agree, sound files for steam locomotives are generally pretty poor, diesel sounds are much better and quite realistic. As you said, good for exhibition layouts.

Bill, is there any difference in the running between DC and DCC? I have considered trying a single track for DCC, I have the controller and a chip but with the exception of my Virgin Pendolino( it’s in bits) I don’t have a DCC ready loco. Sounds complicated and possibly dangerous as you mentioned. Cheers

Well done I prefer you to check it out for me and you did a fair and true job.

You can turn the sound up and down in the CV settings. I only have two sound fitted locos, one a Class 66 (bought for the unique livery, not for the sound.) the other a second hand class 25. I do like the 25 the best. The sound on the 66 is not very good, too much background hisss. I am not sure if it's a poor sound file, or a poor quality speaker fitted by Bachmann!

Well caught 😂

If you are wanting to use a DCC controller for maintenance epair purposes, you will need one that is capable of a decoder factory reset. Sometimes that is the only resort to recover an unknown loco number or or really "screwed up" decoder after a short or bad programming. I don't think the Select is capable of resetting. In my opinion an NCE Powercab or similar would be more suitable to your needs.

DCC was very strange to me at first, I like some of the things it can offer. I must say that I don't think that I would ever buy a sound fitted steam locomotive, as they never sound right to me, the chuff, chuff always sounds too fast, for the speed of the model. I did have a Hornby Select controller, I liked it, but it was not happy to be jouned up to my Lenz DCC controller. So it went back to the shop!

Went to DCC a decade ago and would never go back. Its just a faff doing all those isolating sections and wot not.

The racket at some exhibitions is really bad. Especially the diesels all thrumming away while stationary in sidings. There seems to be a temptation to try to compete for best/loudest sounds and coupled with other ambient sounds that seem to accompany exhibition layouts these days I don't hang about for long.

what radius is your outer loop?

You program cv8 to number 8, to reset the decoder but. The decoder instructions tells you that the cv value is to reset it

I use both systems on my layout and have a dead section of track connecting them so good can be passed back and forth if desired. I'm with you on the sound front and don't like it that much, none of my DCC loco's are sound fitted and it's much cheaper that way as well. The Hornby controller you have is a very poor introduction to the system as it is very limited in the way it works, with a good system you could get to enjoy the benefits of DCC a good controller will display more useful info on screen rather than just a two digit number. That said there is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking to good old tried and trusted DC.

Tis the work of the devil . Don’t do it Bill !

I have wondered why the default dcc alias is 3 as well. I do know that if you do not know the address of a model you can just program it to the address you wish.

I'm too old to convert to DCC, besides that it would cost a small fortune to convert all my locos. I'll stick with good old DC, its been around as long as I have with no problems.

I'm not convinced about DCC. I also have tinnitus and find the volume and tone trigger things within it. Have fun. 😅

you should try 2 trans on one track!!

YOU HAVE BEEN BITTEN

"I'm not converting to DCC" - Every person who tries DCC and coverts within the year

I'm old fashioned I like to put the train on the track and go, DCC is too technical and too much of a faf to set up each locomotive and too expensive. Tried it sold it and happy with DC

I see you've been dragged, kicking and screaming to the alter of DCC!!!😅To be fair, the Select controller is a bit old and obsolete now! the new HM 7000 by Hornby is much easier to get on with! Also the TTS sound decoders use very basic speakers which would benefit from being changed for a better one! If you what to turn the volume down, you would need to set the value of CV 63 to a lower number! The Hornby HM7000 would allow you to change the volume by moving an arrow up or down on a Smartphone App! The great thing about DCC is that you don't always have to fit sound and Locos run so much better and smoother at low speeds, giving a more prototypical look! Enjoy!

Ha ha ha ha....

Bill, not all DCC is created equal. Hornby decoders are cheap for a reason and there is a big difference between a 20 pound Hornby decoder and say a 99 pound Zimo decoder as there are a huge difference between DCC systems. Hornby Selectrix is a starter system and is very basic. Ohh and remember to fit those buffer stops😂😂

ìts better using railmaster.

Laughing at how long that coal shovelling went on for

Just be greatful it wasnt an Americal Locomotive. They have bells Crew Talk, Announcements as well as whistles.Horns etc

1 is not for locos shkhld bd 3 or more

Hello you are not going to be able to not play with Dcc now! You have started it no going back now! 😅

Trust Hornby to make something in theory that is good, bad by their way of implementation. Roco/Fleischmann with their Z21 DCC system make it function with relative ease. Hornby use TTF files for their DCC sound files and as these can be very low bit rates they do sound extremely tinny!