One thing I find fascinating is Japan’s fascination with Alice in Wonderland. I’m not even just talking about Kingdom Hearts. They just love the aesthetic of Alice in Wonderland. You can find countless manga artists drawing their characters in outfits modeled after Alice in Wonderland and even some manga retellings. I find that interesting.
The amount of Alice in wonderland merchandise are much more than the Disney princesses. They have like a bunch of Alice in wonderland puzzles. Even underrated characters have their plush e.g. March Hare in Nuimo. I remember there's a Disney store that the first floor was rabbit hole. The lobby of the resort have the 4 colors of tea cup couch and themed room for Alice.
I may not like Disney's live-action Alice In Wonderland movie nearly as much as their animated one, but I can at least respect it for being its own thing rather than trying to "replace" its animated counterpart, unlike most Disney live-action remakes.
@@wickedfeylady Well, I think some of the movies before the Mulan remake were okay. When 2020 Mulan shows up... Nuh-uh! NOPE! Don't want to deal with any more remakes after that.
@@memethyst Apparantly, the Winnie the Pooh ride in Disney World still has some audio recordings from Paul Winchell in it. So there is something nice about the parks keeping old voice actors for the characters.
One insteresting thing about the KH manga shows Sora, after fighting a giant Heartless sent by the Cheshire Cat to test him, calling the cat out by asking which side he's on. Cheshire doesn't answer that, and only says that Alice is not in Wonderland anymore. A few pages later, we're shown the main Disney Villains commenting angrily about the cat deciding to give a hint to Sora, adding that Cheshire would've been a great ally, if only he didn't refuse the invitation to join them. So, canonically, Cheshire is considered great villain material, but he prefers to do his own thing. As for the Queen of Hearts, later in the game, she's shown to actually make sure that Wonderland doesn't get consumed by darkness. And another game, called Disney Magical Castle, show some rather cute instances of her love for her husband, while still being her usual short-tempered self.
@@XenomorphXIII 358/2 manga is my favorite! I remember there's a moment of Captain Hook that somehow he cares about Peterpan, but I don't really remember the story during that part.
@@memethyst you know there are times in which disney puts him and the mad hatter among the disney villains, i can understand how the cheshire cat can be a villain but the hatter seam odde
The Queen of Hearts was also an inspiration for Miss Trunchbull from Matilda, as they both resort to extreme punishments when they don't get their own way and have a very short temper. Also it would be terrifying if the Queen of Hearts had her very own chokey, in which Alice would have to escape from.
It can be argued that the Cheshire cat was actually trying to help Alice by sending her to the queen and provoking her, assuming he knew she would wake up if she was about to be killed.
I'd like to point out that the Cheshire cat does get Alice home. It is her confrontation with the queen, provoked by the Cheshire Cat, which causes Alice to wake up. Which is what Alice wanted help with. Cheshire Cat isn't a villain. He's the only character who actually helps Alice.
One nice detail I like is that the Cheshire Cat sings a little bit of the Jabberwocky poem in the animated film; it’s a nice way to give a little callback to such a memorable character!
I'm glad you pointed out the 2010s live-action AiW being more of a separate adaptation than a live-action remake. I see it grouped in as one of those a lot.
I don't think any of the wonderland characters are evil or good. They are just neutral and they don't have a moral compass due to their insanity, and even thou they sometimes commit very cuestionable actions they aren't evil, they are just mad.
Considering the rules of their world, Id say Alice is the villain, since shes the odd one out. Somewhat like the Requiem Vampire Knight comic, where evil is rewarded in the afterlife and good is punished, here, logic is the villain, while insanity is the only good in their world
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention the Cheshire Cat taught Sora magic in the manga. It's just the best example of how he seems to be doing whatever amuses him.
The Cheshire cat was going to have a song called, "I'm Odd" but it was cut so he could make a reference to jabberwocky by singing the first stanza of the poem
A fun and interesting fact about Kingdom Hearts and Alice in Wonderland, Alice’s Voice actor was actually Kathryn Beaumont (the original VA) she reprised her role as Alice and she also voiced Kairi’s grandmother as well. Seeing her revoice her role 51 years apart was something truly special ^-^ (Alice in wonderland-1951/Kingdom Hearts 2002)
In Once Upon a Time in Wonderland (a sadly underrated one-season show), the Cheshire Cat appeared. While he was apparently on good terms with Alice in the past, he is now much more sinister, with seemingly-murderous intent, and was voiced by Keith David.
@@andrewgoeing2701 I live in the UK, it's strange that it's on American Disney Plus and not UK Disney plus since it is a British story after all written by a British author
If anything, I think the Disney Company is trying to retroactively turn the remakes into discount versions of episodes from the Show, starting with Alice, Cinderella and Mulan.
I'm surprised you even included the Walrus and the Carpenter as villains, though I can see why in retrospect with both the film, the original book, and other adaptations. Plus on a little fun fact you've overlooked: While the Walrus doesn't appear in the Tim Burton film, he does make a cameo as a portrait in one of the Queen's rooms. Same with the Mock Turtle and Gryphon. Same goes with the deleted song "I'm Odd", the closest to a villain song along with "Beware the Jabberwock." Also funny how like Stromboli and later Kaa, the Cheshire Cat was another character that wasn't a villain in the book, turned into a villain.
the walrus and the carpenter is one of my favorite part of the movie along side the mad tea party, olso can we appreciate how they are a subversion of the usual fat and skinny dynamic, usually the skinny one is smart and the fat one is dumme but in this case the roles are reverse
In the original book, the Cheshire Cat is outright the only friend Alice makes and even if he's a weirdo who doesn't help much, whenever he shows up he's a comforting presence because it feels like there's someone genuinely on Alice's side. I wish the film kept that instead of making him the same flighty irrational jerk as the rest of the Wonderlanders
When I was a kid I always hated those flowers in Alice in wonderland. I hated the fact they jumped straight to the fact that Alice was a weed... Like wouldn't they have guessed that she wasn't a weed since Alice looks NOTHING LIKE A WEED. I'm pretty if you didn't want a weed in your garden, you'd be pretty familiarised by them. I especially hated that lavender, violet, whatever flower that purple one was with the glasses because she was quick to call Alice a weed. I always wanted to pluck them slowly out of the ground just because I hated them so much.
Honestly, Ken Page playing two very, very different kinds of Disney baddies with extremely similar motives really amazes me. Oh, btw, he's also the cannibalistic monster Oogie Boogie to those who are gonna ask in the comments after reading this.
When I was a kid, I thought the Carpenter was a seafood chef. At that I time I didn't see Alice In Wonderland from start to finish and much of the clips showing the Carpenter like in the DTV music videos made him seem like a seafood chef in the way he prepares the food for the Walrus and the Oysters, and his attire looked more like that a seafood chef/server than a carpenter. My uncle's a carpenter and I'd never seen him wear a white apron and what looks like a paper hat. Have you? The only thing he did that was even remotely carpentry was building that shack or whatever you wanna call it.
Well this is a 1950’s animated movie based on a 1860’s Victorian English children’s story so maybe that was how some of them looked in either of those time periods.
@@brandonlyon730 Yes, but as I said, I didn't see the movie from start to finish when I was a kid. I should also note, I never read the book, illustrations, and all, when I was a kid, so give me some credit here. When I saw Kevin Smith's 1999 film Dogma where Matt Damon's character talks about the Walrus and the Carpenter bit, that was when I realized I was hilariously wrong.
18:34 Having the voice of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum voice all of the characters in the story that those characters are telling Alice is such a great detail that I did not know until watching this video.
Wow, the fact that the bats warn Alice and she threatens them with Dina reminds me of how in the book Alice is thinking about Dina falling with her and thinking that there’s no rats but Dina might be able to catch a bat, and going into “do cats eat bats/do bats eat cats.”
Queen of Hearts remains one of my favorite Disney villains solely because of her constant want to lose her temper. Compare that to many other Disney villains who are calm and collective during most of their screentime in their respective movies.
What’s especially crazy about the renewed interest Alice went through is that it happened in the 60s when LSD of all things became popular. Imagine watching Alice while high as a kite on acid
The queen accused child of "stealing her heart"? sounds to me like it's the queen who should be on trial (yeh,I know what the actual context is, but out of context it just sounds so hilariously wrong)
This movie stressed me out as a kid (and, lol, let's be honest, even as an adult!!!) because everyone is SO MEAN to Alice! Top Shelf work (as always), and let me know if you or want resources for the Peter Pan video!
I used to like the movie a lot more as a kid but now I just feel really bad for Alice. That's why I have a soft spot for Adventures in Wonderland. I like the idea of Wonderland being an escapist world from the hum-drum real world.
Slight thing that you forgot to mention in the 358/2 Days manga: the Queen of Hearts ends up falling in love with Luxord after he charms her and uses his cards to build her a new house. It's honestly one of my favorite segments of the entire manga.
Another time the cat seems to be subtly leading people to trouble for his amusement was in kh 1 ,after alice dissappears ,before the gang can leave wonderland the cat leads them on an wild goose chase to find the key hole by turning on the lights in the round room...all this does is summon the second boss (or 3rd/4th depending on the order you play surten worlds) trick Master, after said battle, the talking door was coincidently awakened by the noise and yawns reveling the key hole...the cat trys to role with it pretending this was his plan all along. he does this again with roxas (in kh 359/2 days) , but at least this time around roxas was actually looking for the heartless, this one know as twin pranksters.
I just want to say that this channel is absolutely wonderful. So well researched, and delivered. This villain series specifically is always one of my most anticipated RU-vid series. Thanks for the great work! :)
Next time you do the Peter Pan one make sure you put in "a good pirate never steals another persons property" 'cause it's the funniest **** I've ever seen.
You did forget one other one shot antagonist from AIW, though: "Floyd the Fortune Teller" from Day of the Iguana. He wasn't a straight-up villain, but he was a con man who was just out to fleece the other characters.You can not bother with OUAT after Season 3, but Wonderland was pretty good.
Here in Dorset, there's an Alice in Wonderland theme park (that's since been revamped to include a jungle themed area) and I still have fond memories of it. Also in the KH Manga, Luxord actually charms the queen by making her a castle made of cards when it starts to rain.
Once you get all the way up to Raya, it would be interesting to point out that by the time the movie came out, many, many people saw Disney themselves as evil for stuff like the Uiyghr controversy.
There’s also an Alice in Wonderland Maze in Shanghai Disneyland’s Fantasyland. It’s based on the live action Alice films instead of the 1953 animated one like Alice’s Curious Labyrinth in Disneyland Paris.
8:46: No one brings up why Alice shrunk, so I'll give the explanation: Alice ate both pieces of the Mushroom, one that grows and one that shrinks, not realizing that having to eat both of them would result in the shrinking effects take hold soon after.
A year late, but you forgot to mention The King of Hearts' appearance during Tokyo Disneyland's 30th Anniversary Parade "Happiness is Here" and the "Dreaming Up! Parade" for the park's 35th Anniversary.
I just finished making two stained glass cheshire cats. They were done using an antique Disney pattern done in partnership with a German glass pattern maker. One I did in more Disney like colours using an antique lavander irridescent glass and a darker purple water glass and the other I did in a tim burton style with a streaky teal glass and an irridescent grey.
I've never actually looked into the stories or the movie other than a few, but it's definitely a fun warehouse. I think the The Jungle Book villains and their actual motives would be interesting, since some is just instinct, protection, or interest.
Tell me I'm not the only one who thought the Queen of Hearts was the mother of Fred Flintstone? I mean he does look enough like her to be her son, although I never suspected the King of Hearts was Flintstone's dad. Hey, Stone is a bastard surname in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, given to bastards born in the Kingdom of the Vale, maybe Bedrock followed that logic, or illogic if in Wonderland.
My favorite part of the Disney animated version (and part of this is because I saw it on Disney Channel back when it was traditionally aired on Easter on Disney Channel) is how all the visuals get momentarily desaturated the moment that the "mad" watch gets smashed.
28:51 jeez, that’s one hell of a skimpy outfit for Alice in the 70s. You can even see her uncovered knees. We must inform the village elders. You don’t see that in Disney parks anymore. Theses days her skirt is way past her knees and she seems to wear full length tights
Man, Dan hall's version of the story was early dark disney stuff. I think it was softened after the war because people wanted to think of nicer things after a war decade. But seriously this movie, and Peter pan I notice had darker iterations that could have had different reactions to the public if released back then an again were delayed due to the war. Also its interesting how disney made a blowhard in the book into an actual threat.
I love all these retrospectives, thank you for all the effort you put in. Your channel is truly wonderful. There is also a Alice in Wonderland ride in Blackpool pleasure beach in the UK, I believe it is the oldest ride in the park and has always been on of my favourites. There is a particularly cool part where it seems like you are upside down and also you transport for the ride is a Cheshire cat! Xx
I never liked "The Walrus & The Carpenter" part nor the two characters in general. I usually skip their part. I do enjoy the Queen & King of Hearts, as well as the Cheshire Cat (even though he's more of a neutral character & trouble maker than a villain).
For the wonderland comic I like how they actually reference the other cards suits because I think it’s kind of weird that the queen of hearts has spades clubs and diamonds working for her also I’m guessing Peter Pan is going to take a lot longer mostly because this is the first Series do you have a connection to The movie and not just the reimagining and I’m guessing you’re gonna have to pick and choose which villains from Jake and the Neverland Pirates you want to use also I think there’s going to be a new Disney Junior show based on hours in wonderland
Wow, I love how you actually respected the madness of the original story and didn't just treat them as any other villains. It's nice to see someone understanding and respecting the source material, unlike Disney with their back stories now.
I know we could’ve had our “first” Disney couple in WISH if it had gone with the drafts and plot, but we have the Queen of Hearts and her husband RIGHT HERE!!!
That's what I was thinking! They compliment each other quite well also. There's no way the king could run Wonderland all by himself since nobody but the queen seems to take him seriously, and if it weren't for the king being only one able to talk some sense into the queen and pardon everyone in secret, things would be much more chaotic. There are some older recordings that were scrapped from the film and the two of them weren't supposed to get along at all. The queen actually called the king an idiot at one point like in the book! 😂 He was originally going to be of normal height instead of dwarf as well.
You know, Mike Matei's video on Carl Barks got be intrigued at a young age, but your videos talking about Yellowbeak and the Mickey Mouse Comic Strip and those weird crossovers that used to always happen really sealed the deal in making me finally check them out and start reading them. I gotta say, I like 'em. I've only read two Captain Hook stories so far, but I can't help but notice that in them Hook's right hand man Smee is strangely different, like he was always on the bad guy's side but in the comics I've seen he seems just as evil as Hook and follows his orders without making any mistakes, is that how he always is in the comics?
I just got a little niece named Alice. It's her mother's middle name, and her favourite Disney movie was this one. Plus she's probably going to be blonde because she already looks like her mother, who was golden blonde when she was young, and then dark blonde later. I'm planning to give her my pristine hardback copy of Wonderland. Verna Felton was a Golden and SiIver Era Disney veteran, for sure. I actually never liked Flora. The way she brushed off Merryweather always irritated me.
Another villain duo that can be compared to Foulfellow and Gideon are Gonzorgo and Rodrigo from Babes in Toyland. One does all the talking and the other is literally seen but not heard.
There’s actually a twisted tale about Alice in wonderland. It’s called unbirthday. It would have been really useful if he referenced the twisted tale book, it really expands the wonderland lore as well as having a good real plot. Id really recommend it if you enjoy the movie and world in general.
I think the most wholesome thing about the Mangá version of Wonderland is that Luxord helped rebuilding the Queen's castle and she fell in love with him. I dunno, that was pretty cool
Just found this channel, and I love it! Working my way through this series on Disney villains has been very entertaining and fascinating. I'm very much looking forward to when you one day do a video about Professor Ratigan from The Great Mouse Detective. It's my favorite Disney movie, I don't think it gets enough attention, and I think Ratigan is a very interesting villain.
I'm glad that you mentioned the Wonderland comic with Mary Ann, but I'm disappointed you didn't go into more detail. It's a pretty fascinating comic. For instance, we get to see the other card queens (well, one other; the Queen of Hearts tricked the other two into murdering each other). Plus, the Cheshire Cat shows himself to be more of a villain: he tricks the White Rabbit into reciting the Jabberwock poem (which naturally summons the vicious Jabberwock), and he tries to seize control of Wonderland in the finale.
I agree that the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderlands don't really count for the live action remakes. They aren't a remake of the animated film, they're just from the same source material. Also, I really liked Once Upon a Time in Wonderland but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on that one. *SHRUG*
I'm very impressed with all the research you did for these videos, Colin. You really outdid yourself. And good observations on the similarities between the Walrus and the Carpenter and Foulfellow and Gideon.
Oh yes this movie!! The queen is to me....just plain nuts!!! I mean seriously what's with her and cutting off heads?! Anyway love your videos Collin!!!!💙💙
Personally, the only characters in "Alice in Wonderland" that I consider villains are the Queen of Hearts and Mr. Walrus. The Carpenter seems too stupid to be a genuine villain, the King of Hearts is just there, and the Cheshire Cat is certainly a jerk but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a villain. As for the other characters... I know the Mad Hatter and the March Hare were put on some Disney Villain merchandise, but I don't think they're villainous. Unhelpful, yes. Mad, definitely. But I don't think they're malicious. The White Rabbit and the Doorknob definitely don't count. Mr. Dodo and Bill the Lizard seem friendly enough, just not very helpful. The Caterpillar and the flowers are jerks, but I wouldn't dub them villains either. As for the Tweedles, I think they fall into the same "not evil, just mad and not very helpful" category as the Hatter and the March Hare. Also, I'm really glad they didn't have Alice under the guillotine like in David Hall's version. And yeah, seeing Alice without a head is terrifying.
I disagree with you, the Cheshire Cat is a villains to me, much more than the Queen of Hearts. While the Queen is motly just like every other citizen of Wonderland absolutely nuts, the Cheshire seems to know what he is doing and is even said in some Kingdom Hearts adaptations that he almost worked with Maleficent and that's why he can control the Heartless
Speaking of the Walrus and the Carpenter, you ever read the Roger Langridge comic series "Snarked?" I don't know if it's easy to track down now, but I highly recommend it.
One thing that I really like about the jabberwocky is that Disney planned to make a song in the movie called beware the jabberwock. The song is really catchy
