A Failed Proposal - The L Skip-Stop Train | Tales From the Subway 

I’m from Upstate NY but travel down to the city 1-2 times per year and scoot around just using trains. I drive my wife crazy with all the info I learn from your videos 😂 Good stuff here!

There’s absolutely no need for skip stop service on the L. It runs frequently enough throughout most of the day. I always loved the L for that. Just have to hope nothing goes wrong on that line because it can affect almost the whole line being that it’s only a two track line.

I think the line don't need skip-stop pattern anyway but great to see your video again. For me, I made a strip map for failed skip- stop proposal for BMT Canarsie Line.

Don't forget the D and Q Brighton skip-stop of the 80s due to construction on the line and the D and Q had the same north terminus at 57th-7th Ave in Manhattan with the D going to Coney Island.

I’ve seen something like the “Skip-Stop” on the L a lot but it’s mainly because if spacing, most times they make 1-2 trains skip 3-4 stations to catch up for better spacing after a major delay. But they do have a nice announcement at the station saying that a train is not stopping

I'm thankful this was never implemented, because if it was, the MTA would've had a harder time trying to implement CBTC on the BMT Canarsie Line. I would like to see CBTC be implemented on the BMT Jamaica Line as well, once they finish up with the IND Queens Boulevard and Culver lines, but they will have to kill off the Z train first. That, and they should consider replacing both Hewes and Lorimer Street stations with a brand new station at Union Avenue so that passengers on the J and M won't have to leave the system to transfer to the G.

I think that skip-stop service only works in very limited and specialized conditions. I know that CTA used to have it on the green line, SEPTA used to have it on the Blue (Market-Frankford), and of course we had it on the 1 Broadway - Seventh Ave. I actually worked it on the 1 and it was way more trouble than it was worth.

The (J) and (Z) are a unique situation but the (L) is just fine the way it is and even if they tried express, it wouldn't have lasted.

The skip-stop service is such a silly and unnecessary concept; they need to do away with it, altogether. Leave the stop skipping to the express trains. 😑

I cant wait to see what amazing NYC subway content is coming next!!!

Skip Stop very much a strategy that predates modern understanding of regulation and dispatch - its only real benefit is a marginal increase in rider comfort on the longer trips - CBTC allows maximum throughput and works best when all trains run the same stopping pattern - better acceleration wins for the most passengers \m/

My K plan is to come out of Bwy Junction. It would be local, while the "J" would be the express. Peak direction of course.

Having a skip stop L is like changing the Z to Canarsie line or like re-adding the (LL) train and making it the train.

If anything, the 7th Avenue line should bring back the #9 train. It really helped the #1 train majorly!

The population explosion in North Williamsburg and Bushwick makes skip stop service impractical due to the increased headways and complexities.

I think it should also be considered some stations deeming to be quite useless on the line as well. 3rd Avenue is a desert in the heart of Manhattan, some other stations like Bushwick-Aberdeen and Halsey see very little purpose as well.

I would definitely not be a fan of the idea of implementing skip stop service on the BMT Canarsie Line however seeing that the (7) Train has peak direction exp service it makes me wonder whether or not it is actually pushing it to implement it on the (L) as well. If so then I propose the to stop at the stations of Canarsie - Rockaway Pkwy Broadway Junction Myrtles-Wyckoff Ava Metropolitan Av - Lorimer St After Lorimer St it should merge with the (L) and both can terminate at 8 Av.

My plan for J/Z: J = Operates local, all times Z = Operates express, rush hour and weekends

These should be the [L] route stations: Ⓜ Harlem-135th Street Ⓜ 125th Street Ⓜ 116th Street Ⓜ 110th Street Ⓜ 103rd Street Ⓜ 96th Street Ⓜ 88th Street Ⓜ Central Park Ⓜ Central Park West-86th Street Ⓜ Amsterdam Avenue-86th Street Ⓜ 79th Street Ⓜ 72nd Street Ⓜ 66th Street Ⓜ 59th Street Ⓜ 51st Street Ⓜ 42nd Street-Lincoln Tunnel Ⓜ 34th Street-Hudson Yards (L) Ⓜ 28th Street (L) Ⓜ 23rd Street (L) Ⓜ 18th Street (L) Ⓜ 8th Avenue-14th Street (L) Ⓜ 6th Avenue-14th Street (L) Ⓜ 14th Street-Union Square (L) Ⓜ 3rd Avenue-14th Street (L) Ⓜ 1st Avenue-14th Street (L) Ⓜ 14th Street-Avenue B (L) Ⓜ 14th Street-Avenue D (L) Ⓜ Kent Avenue (L) Ⓜ Bedford Avenue (L) Ⓜ Lorimer Street (L) Ⓜ Graham Avenue (L) Ⓜ Grand Street (L) Ⓜ Montrose Avenue (L) Ⓜ Morgan Avenue (L) Ⓜ Jefferson Street (L) Ⓜ DeKalb Avenue (L) Ⓜ Myrtle Avenue (L) Ⓜ Halsey Street (L) Ⓜ Wilson Avenue (L) Ⓜ Bushwick Avenue-Aberdeen Street (L) Ⓜ Broadway Junction (L) Ⓜ Atlantic Avenue (L) Ⓜ Sutter Avenue (L) Ⓜ Livonia Avenue (L) Ⓜ New Lots Avenue (L) Ⓜ East 105th Street (L) Ⓜ Rockaway Parkway (L) Ⓜ Flatlands Avenue Ⓜ Avenue K Ⓜ Avenue N Ⓜ Canarsie Pier

I think CBTC really makes a difference in the NYC Subway. Although the primary goal of CBTC was to increase capacity by operating more trains on the line because they can be spaced closely, it has had the secondary effect of making trips faster and more comfortable. That's exactly how I feel about the L line, where I'm okay with a line like this staying 100% local, as long as it remains as fast and smooth as it is now. It's enjoyable to ride, and even though there's a number of stops between Lorimer and Myrtle-Wyckoff (a segment I used to ride all the time), it feels like it takes no time at all.

Both the 7 & L only lines goes under 45 minutes & 25 stations as well as the shuttle trains (42nd St in Midtown Manhattan, Franklin Ave shuttle in Brooklyn & Rockaway Park in Queens). Skip stop service is worthless.

I think the skip stop is soo unnecessary in my opinion the line is really good without express or even skip stop. If anything they should maybe add an extension like you said somewhere else if they would propose an express line or even skip stop. And please mta fix those l train stops we need it lol.

I've never understood the concept of skip-stop service. Peak-direction express at least makes some sense if you have tail tracks or a yard at the end of the line to store peak-direction trains, but skip-stop doesn't even speed up travel times that much. It just results in an unnecessarily complex system with worse headways - you'll may end up spending more time on your trip if you miss your train, as you'll have to wait 6 minutes for the next one.

I got the horn salute for you at Bedford Ave at 1:55. Now look how much better that came out

2:22; I agree Mystic Transit because the L train is the only train that goes Canarsie to Eighth Avenue & Fourteenth Street. Also, these two RU-vidrs like NYC Transit Channel and Train Rider Railfan talked about the K train. First, NYC Transit Channel talked why is the 8 Avenue local "blue" K train is hated, and second, Train Rider Railfan talked about the fun facts from the Canarsie Line of the L and the "dark grey" K train for dealing skip-stop service.

I love skip stops. Long lines should have a quasi express

Why don't they run another express underneath the current L train line like the F train. It's worth a try. Can eventually get back into 8th avenue somehow. Something to consider

They need to expand the L lines both side

Yeah skip-stop service is not need on the L line but there should be more trains at rush hour (AM & PM) terminating at Myrtle Ave and go back to Manhattan like some do now, so it can relieve crowdedness on trains coming from or going to Rockaway Parkway, but for this to work, trains terminating at Myrtle Ave have to leave first before Rockaway Parkway trains enter Myrtle Ave.

If they had ran it similar to how the Staten Island Railway runs express service during rush hours on two tracks, albeit with scheduling changes to ensure it works for a much more frequent subway line with higher ridership, I could see such a service pattern working out long term

I used to be a frequent subway rider (I now take the buses and the LIRR) and I think Skip-Stop only works on certain lines, but not all lines back then I used to ride only the Z on Jamaica Line during the morning and afternoon rush (except times I get a J) and although the Z gets much hate, I am actually one of many who actually enjoy it's presence but aside from that, I believe the L does not need Express or Skip Stop Service, as it doesn't really need it, and even if it did have skip stop service, idk how it will work on a line that's mostly just 2 tracks

I remembered when they wanted skip stop service on the L during the early 90s. It’s toooo congested for skip stop service. KK also ran on the J/Z. I always wondered why they didn’t use the K in place of the Z.

Dear fellow Melanite brother Mystic you are one thousand period correct with regards to the BMT Canarsie Line not having a skip-stop methodology for it would be very inconvenient due to the fact that certain station would be missed plus one also have to transfer over to achieve reaching those missed stations further in additional the “K” designation was used longer ever since double letters we’re more frequent first as the Broadway - 6th Avenue local twice between Eastern Parkway / 57th Street then again from 168th Street / World Trade Center on the which the Melanite brother here fully remember so the BMT - Canarsie would have been it’s third time of destination use so much kudos for the transit insight!!!

Skip-Stop service isn't as affected as it used to be decades ago. In all honesty the J/Z lines need to be modified with the Williamsburg Bridge being rehab it should increase the current 20 tph to 24 tph during rush hours. Add 2 additional J and 2 additional Z trains making it 16 tph instead of the 12. J/Z run local together from Jamaica to Broadway Junction then have Z trains in peak direction only go express from BWay Junction to Marcy and get extended to 9th St in Bklyn to help Supplement the R. The J can continue its normal peak direction express to Broad St. J trains terminating at Broad St can quickly turn back onto the opposite direction track before a Z train arrives with an upgraded switch. Once the Z isi terminated it can layup at 9th St middle track or even deadhead back to Broad St as a J.

These should be the [S] route stations: Ⓜ Harlem-125th Street Ⓜ 116th Street Ⓜ 110th Street Ⓜ 103rd Street Ⓜ 96th Street Ⓜ 88th Street Ⓜ 3rd Avenue-86th Street Ⓜ Madison Avenue-86th Street Ⓜ Central Park Ⓜ Central Park West-86th Street Ⓜ Amsterdam Avenue-86th Street Ⓜ 79th Street Ⓜ 72nd Street Ⓜ 66th Street Ⓜ 59th Street Ⓜ 51st Street Ⓜ 42nd Street-Lincoln Tunnel Ⓜ 34th Street-Hudson Yards Ⓜ 28th Street Ⓜ 23rd Street Ⓜ 18th Street (S) Ⓜ 8th Avenue-14th Street (S) Ⓜ 14th Street-Union Square (S) Ⓜ Bedford Avenue (S) Ⓜ Jefferson Street (S) Ⓜ Wilson Avenue (S) Ⓜ Broadway Junction (S) Ⓜ New Lots Avenue (S) Ⓜ Rockaway Avenue (S) Ⓜ East 94th Street (S) Ⓜ East 88th Street (S) Ⓜ Ralph Avenue (S) Ⓜ East 56th Street (S) Ⓜ Utica Avenue (S) Ⓜ Troy Avenue (S) Ⓜ Brooklyn Avenue (S) Ⓜ Nostrand Avenue (S) Ⓜ East 23rd Street (S) Ⓜ East 16th Street (S) Ⓜ Ocean Parkway (S) Ⓜ McDonald Avenue (S) Ⓜ 18th Avenue (S) Ⓜ 16th Avenue (S) Ⓜ New Utrecht Avenue (S) Ⓜ Fort Hamilton Parkway (S) Ⓜ 8th Avenue (S) Ⓜ 6th Avenue (S) Ⓜ 3rd Avenue (S) Ⓜ Brooklyn Army Terminal (S) Ⓜ Bay Street-Staten Island Ferry Ⓜ Oakland Avenue Ⓜ Saint Joseph's Avenue Ⓜ Lisk Avenue Ⓜ Goethals Bridge Ⓜ Travis-Chelsea Ⓜ Korean War Veterans Parkway Ⓜ Fisher Avenue Ⓜ Tottenville-Bentley Street

Skip-stop is a no-go. That’s why the MFL in Philly discontinued it.

Glad that skip stop wasn't done on the L. Would have replicated the same issues on the J and nonexistent Z. Removing the Z skip stop would be a long overdue improvement that's needed on the line.

No to skip/stop on the lettered lines and some buses. I've been on some in Manhattan and they make all stops.

Bring back the 9 Train!

I instead propose express service on a new lower level for the BMT Canarsie Line. The [S] should run express, while the [L] should run local. The (S) shuttle logo should be replaced by named ones.

I think that the grey (K) line should run on the (L) line, between 8 Avenue and Halsey Street, the (A) line between Aqueduct and Broad Channel, and then completely replace the Rockaway Shuttle between Broad Channel and Rockaway Park Beach 116 Street.

Yesterday as of writing this comment, due to a train running behind schedule, one L train I saw arriving at Myrtle Avenue ran express between Myrtle Avenue and New Lots Avenue to make up for the lost time.

New fare gates are amazing, but there is still more room for improvement to prevent fare evasion.

I would reject skip-stop myself for K & L trains. Instead, I'd give the K train a starting point at Rockaway Parkway-Canarsie with the L before moving over to the J, M &'Z tracks just before/after Broadway Junction in turn move over with the M train before/after Essex-Delancey Streets alongside the 6th Avenue tracks with the B, D & F trains until W59th Street-Columbus Circle . Alternately, the K train can also use the 8th Avenue tracks with the A, C & E trains before/after W4th Street-Washington Square. In either case, W125th Street outright, W145th Street with the B train, W168th Street-Washington Heights with the C train, W200th-Dyckman Streets outright or W207th Street-Inwood with the A train will be the final K train stop. The L train will retain its longtime service pattern without changes.

I can sort of see why. The L line is mostly double tracked, and both of its terminals don't even have tail tracks.

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Thanks for the video!

Completely forgot about this lol.

why don’t they just make a 3rd track through Jamaica to bway junction

I feel like the use of bringing back the K should have some sort of benefit. Canarsie does not need a skip-stop service. If there was express service north of Broadway Junction, then maybe the implementation makes sense, but the line is too short as said the video. If the line was extended past 8th Ave and ran uptown to 72nd St along 10th Ave, then maybe an express/local option makes sense. If Canarsie had Express/Local service, they would have to extend L service further. I saw an idea of sending L trains north along 10th Ave to 86th St and then runs crosstown along 86th St before exiting Manhattan. It can either run along Astoria Blvd or along Broadway/Northern Blvd before going to College Point or Whitestone. If that occurs, then I can see express/local service along the Canarsie Line. May a duo-combo of L/O service. And then I also express service in Brooklyn where they can implement Canarsie Express between Metropolitan Ave to Broadway Junction with intermediate stops at Montrose Ave & Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs. In that case, the L runs all express service (entire route) while O service take local. I like the idea of splitting Crosstown service into 2 services. The G runs from Court Sq to Church Ave (... or maybe Kings Hwy to boost F service) and the K would run from Court Sq to either Prospect Park or somehow ending at Ocean Pkwy (as it is a 4-track station). So, Brighton can have B service run express to Brighton Beach. Q service runs local to Coney Island while K service can run local to Ocean Pkwy (just reconfiguring of the tracks). The extra tracks after Brighton can have K service operate on them, but of course B service would lose the extra tracks but if B service in permanent along Concourse to Bedford, then it should be fine. *Got a little off track with the whole explanation lol*

The only thing that the L needs is an extension to 10th Avenue. There is not need for this.

L train is short and quick and does not need this. Now if the ride were 1 hour + then maybe we got something that can work

What about adding bypass tracks at certain stations for express to go pass a local?

The MTA NEEDS to Stop this NONSENSE IT RIDICULOUS

I never knew that the MTA has proposed to that idea back in the 1900s, but it would never worked out from then, and it will never work now it's now operating CBTC so that's a No for me.

Fun fact: the grey "K" appears on the R110 rollsigns

No link to other skip-stop video description.

Stories from the subway… just sayin the alliteration is better than tales from the subway

You don't need a gray K line because L train is fully local. Many passengers don't like trains to skip santion you don't need mta is not put k line because it too expensive for

We dued need to honestly have more better service on the bronx ind and irt because the 4 kinda should be extended to take a turn at moshulu parkway and then go to Woodlawn but we could also have the 4 train make stops along the edge side of the city to have some 4 trains heading for peel am bay or a closer stop to phelam bay on the 6. We have have d trains run along the 4 and make the the d end at the next stop after Woodlawn since we have more space. 2 and 5 trains can also be extended like the 4 but we can have 2 trains run to Wakefield and each other times we can have other 2 trains or a shuttle like the 42 shuttle got from 180 street to each Chester and have 5 trains take a turn around the yard or go underground and make stops and then end around the 4,6,b and d but for the b we can also have it run to 145 or with the d ,but that is a dumb idea btw plz respond I spen t 5 mins writing this

What the L needed was 4 tracks because of his stop heavy the line is, skip stop is useless

Well buddy I believe skip stop service should be discontinued but we all know it's very unlikely to happen.

The skip stop service never works on a two track line so what's the point if it doesn't justified the service and the headways

MTA needs to eliminate the Z already. These skip stop lines don’t help. Forget about skip stop lines and try focusing on what’s more important that riders actually need like subway line extensions and trying to improve stations and make more stations accessible with elevators/escalators.

B and Q on Brighton doing skip stop? Stupid when you have 4 tracks

We need Skip Stops the L train is already crowded having skip stops semi alleviates the amount of passengers

Make the line express = I would enjoy it

Skip stop service on the same line. Two tracks. Isn’t needed. The L train is a short route already.

More like the gray K proposal

Beautiful trains❤😊

Quick question, did u have another account called "Zeenoz" where you would make minecraft builds? And also what is ur mic.

NO, to short, stops to close together, ridership too high...Like the L isn't even good for SIR style express trains... We just simply don't need skip stop ob the L train.

drop more content please

Well the 1/9 and J/Z shows that Skip stop is a failure. There is no way that it is needed.

The L train should be extended to Hudson yards.

Skip-Stop service should just be dismantled if it’s not being utilized properly. Just saying.

Only Z Skip-Stop Train.

Skip-stop service is useless on the NYC Subway

Skip stop is terrible.

Stop it with that nonsense. The juice ain't worth the squeeze.

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I think the main issue with the L train it's only one track for either direction if they could some how double that or build one track in the middle and run the express according to the rush hour time that would be best solution.. and to be honest from Rockaway parkway to Manhattan its not to long of a ride either but I understand ppl wanna shorten their commute by any means..