I work in a home center and I couldn't agree more. We have 6 options for quality of paint bit only 2 for most plywood. I went walking through the yard at a sister store to my branch and was. Actually stunned that they stocked 5x5 Baltic birch
Very useful video. Thanks for taking the time to explain these things. I'm about to build a platform toddler bed for my daughter and this gives me a better idea on what to spend.
I've used home store birch one several occasions and haven't had any major issues. Though I do go through the entire stack to find the best ones, mostly free of voids and any other visible defects. Actually I'm currently making a set of cabinets for the shop with some 3/4" and 1/2" birch and it's turning out quite beautifully. I also just made a top for a kitchen island with 3/4" birch from the home store, ebonized with India ink and finished with 7 coats of wiping varnish, and it came out very nice. Granted, I would much rather use higher grade wood from a lumber yard, but unfortunately, we don't have any good ones within 50 miles of where I live, so the big box stores get a lot of my business... Wish it weren't so.
I am working with some 3/4" red oak for some shop cabinets. This wood was advertised as 3/4" SHOP grade, definitely not domestic, and I paid $60 a sheets for it from Windsor plywood. Well I can tell you I am regretting this, the panels are warping like you would not believe and it also has this paper thin veneer that has ripped, chipped and torn out during construction and handling. Sheets also measure up at only 17.3 mm thick. As they are shop cabinets, I am not that concerned about the appearance with some chipping and the warped panels will be corrected with much bracing, however I can certainly tell you the next time I will get red oak purebond sheets (the 5 ply with thicker veneers and mdf core) from my local home depot, and will gladly pay the extra $25 a sheet for it. This product is much more stable and the veneers more durable. The waste that I have experienced with pieces too warped to use has probably already made up for the difference in cost. Your time is also worth something too.
I'm just starting to get into wood working and appreciate the video. I've noticed the same thing. When I first started looking for good plywood, I tried Home Depot and was shocked when I saw how poor the quality was of there Baltic Birch plywood. It was exactly like what you showed. I then found a woodworking store that sells it in 2 x 5 sheets for about $50 or $60 and they are absolute perfection. I needed it to be perfect for a router sled that I built and it needed to be perfectly level.
Excellent video, Jon! I'm planning on making an office desk and I'm wondering what finish to use. Do you have any recommendations? I'd love for the surface to be smooth and durable. It should be able to withstand our cat jumping to and from it. Thanks!
Good video Jon, I think you gave a good description of the grades. I have gotten to the point where I don't use the big box plywood for anything, it's gotten worse over the years. I used to use it as a cheap alternative for shop jigs, but it's so abundant with knots and voids, it is near useless. MDF is good in moderation, it makes great use as tops like you said, but with wood edging or nosing. Strong hinge points can be achieved with a 1-2" rip of solid wood glued to the side, but I agree plywood is a great alternative as it takes screws really well.
What do you consider to be the best sheet good for making jigs which you want to use for accurate cuts? I was thinking of using MDF, and I've seen other videos that use that, but does its lack of structural integrity negate its usefulness in this case?
Hi Jon ! Thanks for this video. I had a question about issues i've had with using plywood where the pieces after their cut become twisted a little or sometimes from one area of the sheet of plywood there are slight differences in thickness. Is there anything that can be done about it? It always seems when i'm watching videos with other woodworkers using these materials that everything is perfect. But what happens when you have issues like above? I don't think it makes any sense to run plywood thru a jointer or even a planer. So then what ?
Hi , I could use some help ! As being new to this I've got most of mine from the home center and have had the problems stated . I do have a couple lumber yards near me ,that I have driven by ! All the wood is kept outside under metal roofs . So is that normally where the birch and the nice plywood is kept ? Also will I have any problems with being ( I guess you say ) "warped" ? Thanks to all that can help ! I'm seriously wanting to learn more!
what about using birch for an assembly table and 1/2" ,3/4" mdf laminated on top? I do plan organizing my daughter's closet out of a much better product. The place i work at, one of the areas builds storage Ottomans and they use Russian birch ply. It looks pretty good no voids that I noticed. $60 a full 3/4" sheet. Is there a difference between this and Baltic birch?
Jon, I wonder if you know what kind of glue is better to be used to glue together 3/4" and 3/8” thick 3’ x 4’ baltic plywood sheets? Is it better to use wood glue or polyurethane glue? I’m asking this because the wood glue contains water and I think that moisture trapped between two sheets might warp the final piece. Thanks.
When You build Kitchen Cabinets, would you pre-finish your Ply, yourself or would you finish it after everything is assembled. I can't Fined Finished Ply in my area because everything is dictated by HD and Lowes and the local supplier does not carry anything cabinet grade. BTW, products change from time to time and I made a Media/TV stand from 3/4" Birch that I bought at Lowes and it had hardly any Voids. It was 95% void free.
Home Depot used to have nice plywood 15 years ago. In fact I am sitting on a table right now with this nice quality. There is nothing close of that quality at HD now . I bought my last birch plywood at a local plywood supplier.
still 50 bucks at home depot - i found a 4x8 3/4" 2017 - But an employee started to cut it in the wrong spot for someone else - got it 70% off - using it for a 33 1/2" x 8' workbench. It will be covered with felt fabric and saturated in fiberglass resin - when tacky I'll lay fiberglass chop mat and 2-4 layers of fiberglass cloth/mesh - put it in a bag (just the work top by the way) and vacuum all of the air out with 2 shop vacs like a boss. You will be able to use it as a ramp for monster trucks if you wanted lol!
$50 a sheet of 3/4" birch ply at my local home center. I bought 2 sheets to do my miter saw station cabinet and used just about everything of it. Haven't noticed any edges falling apart on mine but that's where the face framing comes into play right? I haven't worked with cherry ply yet. Its looks beautiful and can't wait to make something out of it! I also noticed a maple plywood. Haven't used that either. I say as long as you pick your boards right. Thanks Jon for the video. Great stuff man.
I have also seen the birch plywood in 5' X 10' 1 1/4" thick. What beastly structural sheets those were. You could drive a screw driver between the two sheets and the entire edge would lift up. It would not warp at all under its own weight. Each sheet was 16 plies. Shame it was being used as underlayment for slate at one of the Smithsonian museums.
I love your "truth in advertising" recommendation. If more companies worked to really educate their consumers, they would have happier customers and be able to sell higher quality products.
Instead of MDF, try MDO, medium density overlay, for painted projects. I'm sure you know what it is, but for the sake of some of your viewers who may not, it is a plywood core that has a very hard and durable paper type of veneer. It sometimes has an A and a B side. It is less expensive than birch and probably a little more than MDF but it's just as rugged as any 5 ply, plywood. I'm not sure if it's still used, but at one point in time it was used for those large highway signs, for exit ramps and other direction signs etc. Perhaps you can find a project that you can use it for to show everyone. I'm also glad that you brought up the differences between home center and lumber yard materials. Absolutely most of the time, but not always, lumber from a home center is crap and I really think they gear their products to people who really don't know any better or who simply don't care because in most cases it's cheaper.
kperellie I was at HD a couple of weeks ago pricing MDO plywood. They wanted $85 for a 1/2"x 4'x 8' of it with a 4 sheet minimum. I will look somewhere else!!! HD can now order even Baltic Birch plywood and other plywoods, even bending plywood but the prices aren't as good as they should be. I'll stick to the lumber yard.
Good vid. Plywood is so challenging to find a store or supplier that will tell you all those differences. And in Canada a 4x8' sheet of Baltic Birch plywood at Windsor Plywood is $114.00C.
In Ontario (Canada) Chinese 4x8 sheets from the big box store work out to $40 USD (18mm or nominal 3/4"). The real stuff from a hardwood supplier is just over $60 USD for a 4x8 sheet or under $50 USD for a 5x5 sheet of B/BB, but they'll rip and cross cut it to your specs and load it for you. They'll also help you pull out multiple sheets until you find one or more you're happy with. Wholesale is cheaper across the board. $114 CDN ($85 USD) is crazy expensive and it sounds like they are over pricing non-commercial accounts to avoid dealing with the general public.
This video is more than 3 years old and as of today has 55 comments of which (at least) 24 are a year old or less. You've hit on a great subject and lots of folks agree including me. Chinese imports of plywood and wood working tools in general are a huge problem for locally produced wood products and tools. "Local" being North America/UK/Europe. I've put my money where my mouth is and spent a small fortune on tools from North America, the UK and Europe. Will they make me a better woodworker, no, but neither will they hold me back. "Made with Pride in China" I've never seen it, well, maybe because the sticker fell off.
wish I had found this video a few months back when I attempted to make my own replacement speaker baffle for a guitar amp. The Baltic birch I bought at lowes, while nice looking and inexpensive, turned out to be a bad investment in time and money.
Thanks John, how lucky you are being in the US of A. General purpose 17mm plywood here in New Zealend, untreated 5 layers retails at 117 $NZ. The quality isn't too bad however its C-D higher grades just are not available!!!! Thanks for the video.
Like plywood there are also several different grades of mdf. Some of it sucks. Some of it is as hard as hardwood almost. I look for a superior or plus grade when I buy it.
No doubt, I prefer to use HDF or LSL instead of the cheap MDF when it comes to needing paintable non structural panels, MDO works fine as well but a bit more costly...
The HD near me is now selling PureBond plywood. It's still only $40, but it's made in the USA and is much higher quality than the offshore birch. The drawback is that it's poplar core and veneer which doesn't look as nice and is a fair bit softer than birch. I'm using it in place of MDF for painted projects and jigs.
So hen he says "Local Stores" does that mean just local or stores or is that code for like only real lumber yards and such? Because I have a store in my area called "Klinkers Lumber" in Waverly Ohio. Says they have partnered with Ace Hardware or something. So is that still a local store or is it just as "Bad" for plywood buying than your lowes and homedepot? I was just fantasizing about building a big Reptile enclosure I thought a good plywood would be cool to use but I'd need something strong and stable to support its own weight through out a 6-8 foot span. *only 2 feet wide though". And would want something that a little Humidity wouldn't destroy seeing as Ohio can get 70-100% humidity in the summers. *But it would be inside*. But I'd also want it to be stainable on both sides. And be able to sand to a nice finish if possible. So anyway, Would that Klinkers Store be what you mean referring to a "Local store"? Maybe toss a look at their website if you have time and let me know.
Thanks +JonPeters I never realized the difference. I thought most plywood was of poor quality and I didn't have a choise.. I mostly see plywood in furniture that I am going to reupholster.
I have purchased birch plywood from places like Home Depot and Lowes for 30 years and have never had a delamination problem. Like all lumber choices, spend the time to look over your wood and find the best quality available. The cost of baltic birch plywood is not worth it unless you're building high end furniture. For the everyday project, birch plywood works great.
Truth in advertising... at Home Depot... HA HA HA HA HAAAA!!! Very funny Doctor Jones!!! Maybe after Jesus returns, but until then don't hold your breath. Especially with the plywood! I do get your point though. And I love your videos. Please keep up the good work!
Great video. Thanks! I've heard the birch plywood the big box home centres carry comes from China. Whatever it is, it's terrible stuff. It looks like it might be OK on initial glance but it's so green, it warps and makes for shoddy projects.
With every year gone by the availability to find decent furniture grade plywood diminishes..As for the big box stores the lumber aisle humidity is way up there from it's "Juicy" lumber..I stopped using them and only get wood from a local lumber yard.. This is not for supporting local businesses but for cost and time efficiency not to mention far superior wood products..
I've had good luck with the orange store's formaldehyde free birch but a bit pricey. The blue store's Chinese birch had a lot of delamination, voids, and warping issues. Chinese Birch from the local lumber yard is much better quality and price.
I bought 3/4 plywood at Home Depot thinking it would be great for my steel work top table I made. But, after pressing on the top and getting holes in it I realized the 3/4 plywood I bought was junk and a waste of money. He's right, Home Depot should have indicated the plywood had voids in it because it's not for all projects . It's almost like they are cheating you into thinking it will be great.
Great informative video. the sad part is Big store Home improvement entities, are not about to divulge any imperfections or economical deficiencies to the consumer, on the contrary. they all go to their wits ends to Hide all the imperfections and failures of the products they sell. their goal is ther bottom line. and it goes for all the merchandise they sell. Just look at the "off shore" stuff they bring in and sell. The American buyer is a target for these company's to unload their cheap products on them to increase their bottom line. They do not care about quality. but quantity and price. (their price for that bottom Line.) the American Buyer needs to learn how to boycott these lines and force them to deliver the quality products at a reasonable price.
You guys are so spoilt for choice. Here in Australia we have "plywood" or "marine plywood". Big difference in cost and weight, but there never seems to be any specific information available about what its made out of.
Hey come check us out at seafarer marine of Fort Lauderdale we have top quality plywood okoume, Russian multiply birch, AB marine, MDF we also carry teak,padauk, and all other types of hardwoods and veneers.
The only thing good about MDF is that it makes for good templates for projects requiring repeatability. Another good thing is to use it as a disposable work table top. The worst thing about MDF and that is the dust it generates.
I've met my share of people who aren't willing to build furniture out of anything but a 2x4, 2x6, or 2x8 because hardwood is "too expensive." I agree with your thoughts about plywood but perhaps you are giving the average customer of a home center too much credit for making what we both know is a common sense decision. Sad, really.
