A High Efficiency Air Conditioner WON'T Save You Money 

Oh boy…. It’s like car manufacturers with the start/Stop… it barely saves a few bucks but wears out your starter, which cost thousands to replace.

Don't forget that they changed the ratings to SEER2 which now has to take into account the efficiency drop of actually moving the air thru the ductwork. So what was a 14 SEER is now like 13 SEER2.

Thanks again for this information.

Good video (I'm a HVAC engineer since 1972). An influence not emphasized enough: utility cost. In our area [Phoenix], which electric company supplies your power makes a HUGE diff. Broadly speaking, in all the analyses I've done, the most efficient units come with such a high initial cost penalty that they really don't pay back in reasonable terms. Incentives by either the power company or tax breaks don't really offset the premium costs; they're marketing tricks (and often the utilities are allowed to raise their rates overall to offset incentives). While I agree that the higher SEER of staged equipment is negated at high temps, the amount of time spent at high temps is much lower than you might think. The vast number of hours of operation are at a fairly low part load, at which point the staging is saving a lot. However, the push for higher efficiency is relentless, so the "new" concepts and tricks will expand with time. BUT, the most cost effective HVAC improvement: ceiling fans. If you have a hunnerd bucks to spend on saving money, spend the first $98 on ceiling fans, and adjust the stat upward. Comfort is about 90% the feeling of air flow on the skin.

In the business 41 years. That Intermatic AG3000 surge protector is standard for every install we do. Your cost analysis is spot on. When a customer calls for a second price for ac or a furnace and says they want the high end system, I tell them you will never get back the money you paid with savings and the service is usually more frequent and repair parts usually more costly, as you pointed out. Trane, Carrier and Lennox cost more, use repair parts that are usually are not on the truck and take at least 2 days or more to get. Pro Tip. Goodman gets bashed as junk but are cheaper to buy, use interchangeable parts, except for defrost boards in a heat pump, every tech can service them and, like any brand, it is only as good as the installer putting it in.

Good video young man! Been in the trade for 36 years and this is the real deal NO sales pitch and I’m not even asking for a thumbs up 👍. Inverter technology & ECM motors are superior to traditional single speed compressors and PSC motors with regards to comfort, period no questions asked. They don’t break down as much for one simple fact they don’t have or need a contactor and they don’t have the Jolt of lock rotor amps at start up. Contactors get pitted and can single phase an expensive compressor. With that said the real saving is NOT with SEER but rather with airflow and duct design. Most homes leak air out of the ducting into attics, basements & crawl spaces by as much as 50% and air delivery is reduced by 40% to 50% due to improperly sized ducting, return air grills & cheap highly restrictive supply registers. I can get much better comfort and energy saving out of an existing system regardless of SEER rating by simply 1. redesigning the ducting 2. Fixing or replacement of ducting and registers & grills and commissioning the existing mechanical equipment. The challenge is most technicians don’t know or don’t want to or are too lazy to educate themselves on airflow measurements and static pressure readings and how to interpret the information. 🎤

My AC went out I'm in Phoenix got an estimate for $15k for high seer 3 1/2 ton split system. I decided to install two DIY mini splits that had 3 air handlers each. I ran the lines down the duct work I already had. My bill dropped $200 a month in the summer because we only run the rooms we use. The total cost was $6500 in parts far cheaper and I got inverter high seer systems. That even included all the tools I needed and I got my 608 EPA license. All of that was still cheaper then hiring a contractor.

I had a 14 seer installed when my 10seer 5ton compressor died. Expected a much better electric rate during the summer. I was wrong! $10k for a 14seer 5ton package unit. It saved me a whopping $20 a month on my electric bill! 😱. So overall you can expect a $5 drop in hot climates with every seer you go up. Maybe more now that the rates have doubled due to natural gas shortage and the factor they have not been doing any upgrades to the grids till its an emergency. I knew the rates where going to double last summer so i bought an 18kbtu 22seer solar hybrid mini split. And some solar panels max it could handle and run all day free. Had an electrician install a disconnect box so i could run the higher seer during some of the night. Then Installed it all myself because i have hvac and some electrical experience. It dropped my usage in half and kept my bill a little lower than it used to be. My kwh before was 2000-2200kwh after the install with 110° days 1000-1200kwh for the hottest month. $223 bill instead of the expected $450

I’m a 40+ year HVAC&R tech. We were installing 2 stage air conditioners years ago they maintain comfort level much better and were super efficient (for the time) overall operating costs were about half, but at about twice the price or more. I sold them mostly on comfort. The one in our home lasted nearly 30 years the 90%+ furnace made over 30 years

I would not recommend inverters, the way they create cold is exactly the same, there is no thermodynamic advantage, the only plus they have is they control the speed of the compressor motor, thru complicated circuitry that is very sensitive to power surges, in my opinion they are mostly marketing hype by the manufacturers to sell something new.

I agree. This reminds me of people that want to save money on gas and go out and buy a Tesla, haha. I know someone that bought a high efficiency washer, but now has to wash longer and with smaller loads because the new motor is not as strong.

It doesn't matter what the SEER rating is if it breaks down all the time. Whatever you might save on electric bills will be rendered moot when you constantly have to pay for repairs!

The most informative non-biased AC video I’ve found. Thank you. We are shopping for new a HVAC system - Thank you!

I’ll grant you that. The variable capacity units sure are quiet and comfortable. But those low grade consumer electronics are just itching to leave you hot under the collar! The surge suppressor is definitely good advice.

My 1993 80% Coleman/Evcon HVAC system still limping along. Replaced igniter and flame sensor once and replaced fan and service connect on condenser. Never had scheduled inspections for any HVAC! DIY! 🎲👍✌ The snowman had a total meltdown when the sun came out

Buying a high SEER number ac with several $K doesn't mean that it can automatically save you from paying heavy ton of electricity bill if you turn your ac on with open window and off it with window close.

Any money you save in electric costs will go back (and then some) into repairs since the higher SEER units are more complex and use high-cost OEM parts.

As SEER goes up the % saved becomes less per unit, about 3-4% each unit. If you pay for more repairs it negates any savings. Duct work has to be perfect or SEER can be cut in half.

Honest video!! If you truly want to save money, just buy mini split and install yourself.

Wish i'd seen this before I installed this trane high efficiency unit for 11K. My bills INCREASED this july. My humidity is also alot worse - and I live in a desert. So much resentment.

Just replaced my ECM blower motor (control module went out) and startup capacitor on my outdoor unit this summer. Saved myself a crap load of money simply by having the guys to dig into and diagnose something new rather than opt for a near 14 thousand dollar replacement I was quoted. Always take time to decide if repair or replacement is more cost effective over time!

I always enjoy your videos. Great info and low BS. Thank you 😊

This same lesson can also be applied to other things as well, like buying an electric vehicle, or even a hybrid vehicle. Often, the amount saved does NOT translate to a savings over the typical life of the vehicle. Even if a new hybrid cost $10K, the time to recoup is often far longer than it would take to recover the increased price.. As applied to home air conditioning, I had an issue with my home air conditioner last year; it was apparently low on refrigerant, after 16 years. The first tech that came out didn't even bother looking at the system other than the date of manufacture. Yep, that's right - didn't bother looking.. 3 quotes for low, medium and higher end units to replace the entire HVAC system; starting at about $15K up to 25K.. No advice; no check of pressures or even the power draw from the unit ; just outright replacement. Had another company come out, and they speculated it MIGHT be low on refrigerant, but their advice, surprisingly, was to sign on the dotted line, and here's three quotes - from about $17K up to $23K. Oh, and they'll finance .. YAY.. I asked about - well, from what I was experiencing, I suspected that it was low on refrigerant; their first thing, - it'll cost $1K to replace the Condensor fan; $5K to replace the compressor, or better just replace the entire HVAC system. Hmm. They did check the pressures and the power draw; suspect that it might be low on refrigerant, but won't - you know, first - put in some refrigerant, and see if there's something that could be fixed ? Anyways, they did eventually put in some very expensive, at least to me, refrigerant. He also suggested that I could save some money on the electrical by buying a new system ( ok- a few hundred a year, $23K should be recouped in like 40 years ), and that my choice in air filters might need some adjusting downwards, .. Anyways, still running this year; no significant issues but it's still warm out. I think the smart thing is to see if it will run a year or two longer; just replacing it because someone else, that is going to make money off the deal suggests it, is not smart financial thinking. Anyways.. History: A few years back, I did have a different company come out and check the pressures and replace a failed capacitor. He even suggested that the refrigerant might have been low, but suggested not to put in refrigerant at the time. I don't get it however; when I worked on HVAC in my Army days, we checked pressures, we performed basic checks like leak detection, power draw, etc, and if need be, put in refrigerant as needed.. Why are techs so inclined to just go with "let's replace everything" because it's XX number of years old..

My electric bill dropped by 40% when I installed a new 16 SEER system along with a new furnace. I believe that the old plenum was leaking air so I installed a new plenum and made sure to seal all of ductwork with mastic.

This guy know what he talking about!. I’m agree 👍

Our 19 seer variable speed Carrier does an awesome comfort job. It has a 10 year warranty. That is good because replacing the inverter board is $6,000! Yep, a quote direct from the dealer.

We bought a 22 seer2 unit that also runs off of solar. It was manufactured by EG4, and I like it. Not real sure how much it's going to reduce the bill, but we are getting a second one because the house's central went out, and it'd be easy to cool and heat the majority of the house with these minisplits. One reason we haven't been able to tell exactly how much we saved is we were still running this behemoth 2 ton central unit that was dying. If you have solar and can afford it, I recommend it because of how much less the dying unit was having to work on some very cold nights. We live in Mississippi, so heating isn't as much of an issue as cooling. We will see this summer just how much it can save a person. I've read that minisplits can last a long time, so I think it will work out.

Replacing ecm motors(that break all the time) and other parts from high end units costs way more than basic ac system.

I agree. We learned. Sick of computer fancy crap. It does cost more when it breaks. And I look and scour the Internet and peoples comments for everything today that is costly because I try to get some thing that is not going to break and yet save me enough money at the same time.

Luv the joke 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

You really need to find out how much you're spending on AC and do the math. Most people use a fairly constant amount of power apart from heating and cooling most months, and have a few months where little heat or AC is needed. You can get a fair estimate by comparing those months to the hotter ones. Replacing my 1981 unit with a high-but-not-that-high efficiency unit saved a bit less per year than I could earn in interest with the money in a CD, so it was best to wait as long as possible (until it totally broke down) to fix it. The old one did keep the humidity too low though and there was no way to adjust that.

We put in a 16 seer single stage Diakin. Only need to run the AC a few months of the year most of the time, and also it came with a 12 year warranty. Since when run heat more than cool we do have an inverter furnace, I love how silent the furnace is, you barely notice when its kicked on. If I lived in Florida probably an inverter AC would be worth it for comfort alone.

…the cost to repair these units WHEN they break down. Once you start working on and studying most any kind of machinery, you’ll begin to see that old equipment was far and away better made. Once you replace it, you have jumped on the repair and replace treadmill. Your wallet will be out of breath!

My old 3 ton 10 seer ran from around 10AM until after midnight (granted it had a slow coolant leak on the evap coil which didn't help). I replaced it with a 14.2 Seer 2 3.5 ton unit which is able to hold temp without running non-stop and I've seen nearly 30% savings (at least in KWH) year on year. The charts all said 3 ton, but my gut said that wasn't enough, turns out my gut was right!

After replacing a builder's grade, 10 SEER, 3.5 ton, 18-year-old, split, with a name brand, high SEER HVAC, we had problems with humidity and reliability. Our ten year warranty and annual service contract on the replacement paid for itself. Every major component had to be replaced, some parts more than twice. I fail to see where the economy is in the high SEER units when we had to run dehumidifiers in addition to the HVAC.

Inverter is good because it does not have to cycle. But thats about the only benefit.

All these big wig fancy HVAC techs on RU-vid always recommend the expensive brands

well if you do not use it, you save alot..after that..how comfortable do you want to be.

Just one comment on what I read amongst the comments to this video... Some people are conflating solar panel usage with mini splits and raving about the low cost. My experience in a northern US climate has been that simply installing solar panels that meet your annual energy consumption is a very good idea all by its self. One could say I air condition for free. Basically all of my electrical usage is covered by the panels. And I am insulated from rate increases by the utility company. I think there is a series of priorities that should be followed when spending your money on energy... #1 seal and insulate your conditioned buildings, #2 conserve/don't waste, #3 invest in solar hot water and PV panels, #4 buy HVAC equipment intelligently (as stated in this video). But question stupidly high priced high SEER rated equipment prices. I see much of that as simply price gouging. I don't really see huge price differences if purchased on the internet. (Less price gouging) One guy here mentioned a Carrier inverter board costing $6000 to replace via his dealer.... Ebay shows these boards in the $350 range. I own rental property and had to fix the A/C on one unit last month. A $6000 quote came down to $2000 when the technician began to understand I know how HVAC works and how prices on the internet run. He knew he was price gouging.

SEER is figured over a range of operating conditions. EER is wide open full output at one operating condition. Both are BTU per hour divided by watts. SEER numbers were not on units a few decades ago. EER numbers were. So my 1985 AC that is 8.5 EER is not magically twice as costly as a 17 SEER unit when both are at full output. A 4 year old 12000 btuh mini split i have is decent 25 seer and a great 18 eer rating. There were lower cost units with rhe same 25 seer rating and a lessor 14 to 16 eer rating. My 18 eer unit i purposely wanted because it often is used at full output. In automobile analogy SEER us like a combined City highway idling traffic jam MPG rating. EER is like driving at 85mph as salesman and wanting to know that MPG rating. Modern AC units are more efficient at lighter Cooling loads. Old ones are usually bang bang control. Either on or off. An ancient R22 AC unit often lasts many decades. Newer units run higher pressures with r410a etc. The coils are thinner so less robust. The inverter boards and electronics are lese robust to power surges. I friends vacation cabin has a 1969 R22 3 ton Ac unit. I put a new fan motor and set of compressor wires on it a few years ago..

If you factor in the much higher purchase cost, and the higher potential repair costs of the more complicated system, it is unlikely you will save enough on your electric and gas bills to justify going for the highest "efficiency" heating and cooling systems. However, if you consider comfort more important than saving a few bucks on your utility bills, I submit that going with a two stage system is well worth the extra cost. They keep your interior temperatures closer to what you set on the thermostat, and in humid conditions they take more humidity out of the interior air. As with a lot of things in life, it's your choice. Do what's best for you.

I had to ask myself ; Where does energy get lost or wasted on low efficiency units? And one answer is in heating mode de-ice cycle, new units can de-ice in minimized time frame. And of course the slower fan speeds equals less air friction . But I also saw fixed speed units with excellent ratings, at the right temperature, one reason there are no losses caused by the inverter circuit board itself.

I disagree. My unit is super energy efficient. I live in Florida and my power bills are quite good

100% true!

I'll be replacing the fan motor on my 1998 a/c soon. The prices of the motors are all over the place. I want a brand new one. How do I make sure I'm getting a new one, not a refurbished one?

Hello 👋 good looking buddy so good to hear your voice ❤️ 😊 Jay little Arnold is taking in every word you say. Well I'm happy 😊 to say he is doing really well lately I can't believe the difference my vet is impressed by his improvement I took him Thursday to the doctor she checked him out and gave me a grin. So I knew before she said anything it was going to be good..I'm doing pretty good too for a ol dude I have been working on my jaguar I'm restoring man parts for those cars are as high as a Porsche or Rolls-Royce is what they told me when I got another key made for it..I've got a lot of work to do to it but going to take my time...well tell everyone I said hello and I love you all very much your like the son I never had buddy..God bless 🙌 you ❤️ all my dear precious friends..

Not “rating”, ratio. Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio.

Agreed 100%👍👍👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏

nice video keep it up mr jay

Very good ! I'm going towards an inverter (only for me) I will not install one! 🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃

Great advice, thank you!

Good video lm with you older is better martin from houston tx what did you thinking about new refrigerate and old r 22 tnks I watch your videos a lot tnks for you advice

👏😍👍🥰 watching from Philippines 🇵🇭

I’ve read seer is basically btu/seer. 60,000btu/15seer = 4,000 watts per hour to run. My new 15 seer 5 ton heat pump is about 800 watts less than my old 1999 TRANE unit to run per hour. Doesn’t sound like a whole lot…though my old unit was a 4 ton and pulled 4800 watts when on.

What about geothermal / ground source heat pumps?

Love an honest man.

insulation, windows, and doors are much more important than the seer of a unit.

I can remember when "seersucker" was a thin striped fabric. There are seer "suckers" alright, but in 2022 they are something different. Enjoy replacing that x13 blower motor.

👍👍👍 well said

Excellent video! Thanks for sharing!

This is good info and confirms what I was thinking.

Love your comparison. Kinda like having to pay $1200 for an oil change on a Maserati! Enjoyable ride till you need to maintain or repair!

"money is not a concern" 🤣🤣🤣

If you live in a 3 month cooling climate vs 10 month cooling climate. If you save $100 a month in 10 month cooling climate: $1,000 annually. 3 month cooling climate: $300. Simple third grade math. Inverters cost more: Yes. There are more parts to inverters: depends on manufacturer. Some incorporate communication to make them work which adds to the parts and pieces. If you only buy a unit because of the name on the side of the box? You weren't informed properly as to what you are actually buying. I installed a Bosch inverter in Oct 2019. No problems, just ordinary maintenance. No parts, no failures nothing using this in a 10 month cooling season climate. Would I do it again: Yes. It has saved me an average of 4700 KWH's annually. At 15 cents a KWH = $705 more comfortable than I was before. 4.5 x 705 = $3,172 by now I've easily recouped the difference from a lesser system, to a better one.

TL;DR For a new house or one that doesn't have AC, get a mini-split and it will save a lot. Even without the huge savings, the comfort leads to less stress and better sleep and it is worth it. A minisplit system is best IMO. It doesn't filter air... but it also doesn't create a bunch of holes in your ceiling for HOT, dirty air to come in through. You can also get one for like $500 and install it yourself. Now most people already have their indoor ducting and all of that, but if we are thinking of a new house, an efficient minisplit is the way to go. The fact that it is quiet is another HUGE bonus. You will never hear the compressor kick on from outside, you won't hear the ducts blowing air, etc. The comfort is MUCH more than you imagine. It isn't just that the temperature is going to be controlled better, but that your house is less noisy. You aren't having to speak up ever so slightly. You aren't going to be woken up in the middle of the night (even if you don't actually wake up, your brain still does) because your AC turns on and creates noise and cold air is blasted on you with a 20+ degree temperature difference. As far as affordability, most people could afford this, but they are too busy spending money on a car or something else like that. I'd rather have a beater with a nice house.

What make an a/c efficient ? Motor, compressor ?. And why this ideas/ technology was available 20/30 years ago a motor is a motor and compressor well you know what I mean , thanks. Good video buddy😊

Since many of us are putting solar power in our homes, the inverter units are advantageous. They don’t have the surge of conventional central air systems so are easy to operate on solar . A 50 amp inrush is 12.5 KW ,a very large piece of the pie in even a large solar power system. I have two 1.5K BTU mini split heat pumps running on a 5KW Growatt inverter and,after observing their gentle demand,I feel comfortable adding a third. I have a two ton window unit someone gave me that I’ve never used and doubt the inverter could handle the starting amps.

It appears to me that SEER ratings can be improved two ways. #1 Via multistage or continuously variable speed motors, #2 through large surface area coils at the evaporator and condenser. The #2 variable is static equipment which rarely fails. Consumers should be more cautious of the #1 methods as repairs are more frequent and costly.

Yea it saves money

You are recommending high seer AC only for low noise and comfort. What about the environmental benefits due to lower power consumption? That's a solid reason for me to buy high-seer AC. And lower power consumption means they are more suitable for Off-Grid solar houses.

Great video as usual Jay. I am guessing that the warranty covers the parts only on the unit & not the labor cost involved? I can only imagine the wait time on some of those high efficiency unit parts because there is a delay in getting a particular filter drier in the US, and that's for an old Lennox model unit.

👍👍

After careful analysis I came to the same conclusion regarding the HVAC issue. However what I can't find is info on a heatpump water heater over a conventional electric water heater. Do you have any advice on them?

Where I live in Sweden the cooling is only needed for a couple of weeks per year while heating is required most of the year. I’m currently studying to be an HVAC engineer or technician not sure which it would be closer to in US terms. In recent years the number of heaters have really increased a lot since using regular electric heaters or oil for heating is getting way too expensive.

ROFLMBO They think the degree means they will never do normal labor ever again. The manager handled that so well. Most would go off on them. Not only did he not go off but he showed the degree holder that he himself is not above manual labor.

Can you do some videos on water purification/softening systems?

Is SEER computed differently in the US than Europe?! I never saw a SEER above 9 for ACs sold in Romanian shops.

I am puting in a new furnace and ac system in. The hvac guy will put in a 95% efficient unit for only $500 more. Than the 80% efficiency unit. What is the best way to go as I hear the high efficiency units are much more expensive to service?

A factor not mentioned here is variable electric rates. Where I live, there are four tiers of pricing, with the top tier being about $.15 per KW hour. In the summer months, any AC would spend a lot of time running at or near the highest speeds and when this happens, I would be consuming at the top tier rate, so when the electricity is most expensive, the AC is working about near its full delivery, so the high efficiency units are not saving that much money because they have to run in higher speeds. During the spring and fall, I am usually not using much electricity to be in the the highest price tier, so a multiple speed unit can be more efficient, but it is doing so during periods where I am paying less for electricity to begin with, so the savings are not as much as they could be if I were on a fixed rate pricing. People with tiered rate pricing should study how many hours their current system spends in the higher tier pricing. If the units are running at full speed much of the summer and the energy is being purchased at the top tier pricing, the savings will not be so great as the on line calculators suggest and they may never break even on the return on their investment.

no more glasses.

Maybe you know the answer to this. I have a backflow preventor pvc pipe 1 inch, I want to add a 1 inch brass ball valve. I read that even if you use tape for the theads these still tend to leak. I also saw other guys use teflon tape with pipe dope on top to stop any leaks in other places. This is the way I am thinking of going. Do you have advice?

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." (Cornelius Tacitus) I think this correlation also works between corrupt regulators and manufacturers . . .the more regulations bureaucrats make, the more opportunities for corruption by bribes they can expect from companies that are struggling to comply with the regulations.

Love that joke at the end. My experience is that people with college degrees tend to be dumber than people without them.

I’m buying a Bosch when my house is ready!

SEER is ... Ratio not Rating. Can you read, it's on the label.

You are so spot on with this video. If money isn't an issue, go for the highest seer you can afford. But... good luck with the replacement costs of failed parts which will negate the energy savings your begging about to your friends and neighbors.

When buying an AC unit look only at the EER rating, and only consider single stage units. SEER ratings are useless and don't represent actual performance despite government claims. HSPF ratings on heat pumps are also pretty much meaningless and actual economy pretty much follows along with the EER rating on most units. For minisplits I recommend the pre-packaged inverter units. They have more problems but are pretty much the only reasonable option for most people. I live in a cold climate where the government doesn't care about me. If you live in California or Florida where these SEER and HSPF ratings are targeted for then they may be more useful.

“Estimates and guesses” Guesstimates! Hey buddy just checking in and appreciate your diligence (reading 100’s of comments) and research and development you put into every video! A customer lucky enough to acquire your services is very fortunate 🤙🏻😎