A History of Lutheran-Reformed Division and Union 

"At least Luther got angered" Top 10 phrases that can be used in basically any context of Reformation history

When I hear your intro my life is suddenly okay again.

Jordon, As a fellow Lutheran ( WELS) I applaud your willingness to dialogue with other traditions. I bothered by our practice of sequestering ourselves. I understand the desire and need to protect Lutheranism, but it seems we have lost our voice in the process. I just don't see a Lutheran presence in contemporary Christian circles/debates/ conferences etc. It really breaks my heart. Lutheranism has so much depth, so much to offer. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, can preach Christ or Law Gospel like Lutherans can.

Hello, I am lutheran from Russia. Probably it would be interesting for you to know that in Russia in 1830s the imperial government (btw despite it was on very good terms with Prussia at the time after Napoleonic wars and tsar Nicolas I was son-in-law of the prussian king) tried to force unification of the lutheran and reformed churches in Russia under the name Evangelical-Lutheran Church, in 1832 the Statute of the ELC in the Russian Empire was issued, according to which it professed the U.A.C. and other books of Liber Concordiae. And reformed were forced into lutheran rather than the opposite which was happening in Prussia. And reformed were pretty unhappy about that. But gradually they were granted church autonomy.

Thank you for this video Dr. Cooper - I'd like to quickly mention that while Lutheran pastors were imprisoned during the reign of King Frederick William III (the guy who ordered the Union to be created), when his son became king, he did have the pastors released. They shouldn't have been imprisoned to begin with, but at least they were eventually released.

The presbyterian and congregationalist traditions in America have an analogous history of dissent from established churches, including imprisonment and execution, as the LCMS founding story.

Great summary. And as a 1689 Baptist, we don't really fit into either tradition succinctly. But we still invite everyone to the cookout 😂

"The historical context of the Book of Concord is quite intricate. Cultural and political influences abounded in the 1500-1600s and caused tricky situations for the young Lutheran church in Saxony and across German territories. The Saxon Visitation Articles from 1592 brought standards to Lutheran practice across Saxony and were brought to America by Saxon Lutherans. This small part, not officially part of the Book of Concord, holds great historical and doctrinal value for our Lutheran confessions. Rev. Brian Thomas, pastor of Grace Lutheran Church in San Diego, California, joins host Rev. Sean Smith to discuss the Saxon Visitation Articles in the Appendix to the Book of Concord.", see www.kfuo.org/2020/09/08/concord-matters-090820-saxon-lutherans-a-history-of-doctrinal-application/

Awesome vid. I could listen to this stuff all day. Great work Dr Cooper.

Really enjoyed this. Especially the part on the Prussian Union which I didn't know as well.

This video gives an excellent overview of the Lutheran / Reformed divide. I agree that Walther and crew are uncompromising, but that is because of what they experienced. Keep up the good work!

"Lutherans are always willing to have union with Reformed as long as they become Lutheran first." I'll start using this joke

I pastor a Congregational church. Many at our church would use the term "altar" to refer to the table under the cross in our sanctuary, yet we use a Communion Table for the sacrament. I appreciate much of what I know about Lutheranism. I love Reformed liturgical expressions, including the "Assurance of Pardon" when we use this in our services. I also love Reformed teaching about eternal security, God's initiative, etc., that have specific definitions in the Reformed tradition. I don't believe formal unity is necessary. We can be united in purpose but distinct in our denominations/associations. Our association (EARCCC) does have some "Evangelical and Reformed" churches that mostly use the Heidelberg Catechism (which is Reformed). Thank you, and God bless you!

Can't wait for part 2! Thanks, Dr Cooper!

This was a really helpful video. The historical context of the LCMS was particularly interesting. Maybe we Reformed can't worship together with Lutherans on this side of eternity, but I hope we can be friends, and I hope we can strengthen each other through dialogue, and maybe we can even keep the polemics to a minimum too.

As a Reformed believe I'm not the usual one, I hold to the Helvetic confession written by Bullinger and as Calvin and Bucer I want to be in unity with the Lutherans to be in unity when fighting against heresy, which we are on a facebook Lutheran and Reformed group, I'm learning from the Lutherans about Law and Gospel distinctions, which is in the Reformed tradition but it's not well known or central.

Can't wait to watch this one!

That was very interesting! Thanks!

Dear Dr. Cooper, I appreciated this historical overview of the relationship between the Lutheran Churches and the Reformed Churches and the attempts/movements to bring the two together in union. As one who doesn’t belong to the Churches in either group, but who respects what I now know are identified as confessional Lutheran Churches, l appreciate knowing the long-standing historical differences. Finally, I have an increasingly jaundiced view of ecumenical relations. Your approach is the only one which is committed to the Truth/truth: what is held in common is to be treasured, the differences must be up front and recognized in charity, what can be emulated in each by the other should receive thanks, and, where prudent, cooperation and a united Christian witness should be carried out. Caution must be the hallmark of the latter. Surely, we now have the benefit of hindsight to eschew the perils of false and wrongful ecumenism. Thank you for your good work in Christian understanding. Sincerely In Christ Jesus, Larry Clarence Lewis, Canada.

Where can find the text of the Variata? I have been trying to find it in print.

"the 1592 Saxon Visitation Articles This document was, after its publication, appended to every edition of the Book of Concord published in Saxony up until the forced union of Lutherans and Reformed under the Prussian Order of 1817. It is an illuminating text to help explain and illustrate the meaning and use of the Book of Concord over against Calvinism. Calvinism's fundamental doctrinal understandings, on major points, differs significantly from Lutheranism. This document sets those major disagreements in stark and clear contrast. This document was ordered prepared and distributed in order to crush Crypto-Calvinism, which under Chancellor Nikolaus Crell was again rearing its head in Electoral Saxony in the mid-1580s. These articles were used to conduct a general visitation of churches and schools. The visitation was ordered by the Elector at Torgau in 1592. These articles were drawn up 1593 by A. Hunnius, J. Löner, W. Mamphrasius, M. Mirus, G. Mylius, et al. Four articles treat the Lord's Supper, the Person of Christ, Holy Baptism, and the Election of Grace, each in 4 to 6 terse, canon-like sentences in substantial agreement with the Formula of Concord. To these are added equally terse statements pointing out and rejecting the errors of the Calvinists on these points.", see bookofconcord.org/visitation.php

Thank you

Hey Jordan, I'm a student at a (classically Reformed) Presbyterian seminary really enjoying your videos and looking more into Lutheranism (becoming pretty convinced, actually!). I was wondering if you could direct me somewhere to read on how Lutherans utilise the essence-energy distinction (if you do at all). I have a much more East-leaning doctrine lecturer and so I'm much less familiar with the more Western way of conceiving the Trinity and how God reveals himself without getting into the dangerous territory of knowing God in his essence (as I'd say in my Eastern categories). Any tips? I was thinking maybe your book on theosis. The language of 'beatific vision' makes me squirm a bit but I'm sure this would be explored in the Lutheran tradition.

Confessional Reformed fence the altar, which sounds like closed communion, doesn't it?

Does any group usethe Variata today?

I think it was Walther who accused Zwingli of conceding certain Lutheran doctrines hoping to get Luther to agree with him on the Supper

What would one say with this post Marburg Near the end of his life Zwingli summarized his understanding of the Eucharist in a confession sent to King Francis I, saying: "We believe that Christ is truly present in the Lord’s Supper; yea, we believe that there is no communion without the presence of Christ. This is the proof: 'Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them' (Matt. 18:20). How much more is he present where the whole congregation is assembled to his honor! But that his body is literally eaten is far from the truth and the nature of faith. It is contrary to the truth, because he himself says: 'I am no more in the world' (John 17:11), and 'The flesh profiteth nothing' (John 6:63), that is to eat, as the Jews then believed and the Papists still believe. It is contrary to the nature of faith (I mean the holy and true faith), because faith embraces love, fear of God, and reverence, which abhor such carnal and gross eating, as much as any one would shrink from eating his beloved son.… We believe that the true body of Christ is eaten in the communion in a sacramental and spiritual manner by the religious, believing, and pious heart (as also St. Chrysostom taught). And this is in brief the substance of what we maintain in this controversy, and what not we, but the truth itself teaches."

My family and I are attending an LCMS church in my town that offers open communion. I've been dismayed about it because I know that open communion goes against lcms teaching. We live in California in a very liberal part of California and this is the closest church I can get to. There is a WELS Church in Modesto CA but that's about 60 miles from where we live and I'm chronically ill with Lyme disease so it's practically impossible to get there. What would you suggest we do? We want to be faithful but we're have a difficult time finding that.

What book(s) would you recommend to learn more about the Prussia union of Reformed/Lutheran?

Do you think that a Lutheran can use the common book of prayer? I’ve always been interested in incorporating it into my daily prayers and such, at least for a few weeks or do but I’ve always hesitated due to theological concerns. What are your thoughts? If not, does the Lutheran tradition have something like it?

As a Cradle Lutheran who “converted” to Calvinism 50 years ago, I'm very grateful that the Swiss held firm in the matter of the Christ Jesus’ Presence in the Eucharist’s Elements.

Great history lesson. Especially on the Prussian union. My wife's family is from East Prussia and the older generation seemed devout. Maybe because they were more Reformed like I am. :)

You can actually be lutheran and reformed, that's why they are reformed lutherans.

Great historical video.

I decided that I wanted to be both so I just became Anglican

I've learned how different Lutherans are from Reformed. After learning such - I see why, of course, we could not have a united tradition. It is distinguished by more than nuance. Our differences on the atonement, grace, and the Supper, and infant Baptism, are strong. What I would want is for each side to say "We recognize Luther and Calvin as mighty Reformers, used by God, and both branches of the Reformation as validly Protestant and United on the major front of the catholic Christian faith". That's it. If that's already a thing, which it is I think?, then all good! But if one side is saying "The other side isn't a valid Reformation tradition and they need to stop being apostates and come on over to the other side" - then that's what's problematic to me. Much love, fam.

Just think of it, Nestorians and Marcionites, playing together . . .

Also so many german names lol

Luther hated closed communion, and so did the Lutheran confessions. It's such a joke that Lutheran churches practice closed communion, and it's ruined the denomination by keeping others out at a time when so much hersey is so rampant throughout the church. It's going to kill what's left of the conservative churches if they keep that up.