Trinitarian Heresies (Intro to Trinitarian Theology)

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In this part of our series on Trinitarian theology, we begin a multi-part discussion of Trinitarian heresies in the history of the church. Here, we begin with those that emerged just after the apostolic age.

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15 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 100

@Tyler-xf4kf 11 месяцев назад

Babe wake up, Jordan Cooper posted another video!

@dave1370 11 месяцев назад

I used to think God was like Voltron, assembling together with three parts. Then I realized I was a heretic and changed my view.

@garymatthews1280 11 месяцев назад

I know what you did there.

@CJ2345ish 11 месяцев назад

Come on Patrick!

@PeterMartyrVermigli_is_cool 6 месяцев назад

And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. - Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. -Acts 3:19 If are in North America, please go check out any of the churches available to you: PCA, OPC, Rpcna/Rpc, Urcna, or a canrc church (These are conservative and actual Presbyterian churches) If you can’t find one of the conservative presby churches then, maybe a Lcms or Wels Lutheran church. If you are Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland and the APC. (Different from the Church of Scotland) If you are English I recommend the Free Church of England. (Different from the Church of England) Online you can look up church finders for each of the groups and it will show you locations .

@PeterMartyrVermigli_is_cool 6 месяцев назад

@@CJ2345ish🐪

@PeterMartyrVermigli_is_cool 6 месяцев назад

@@garymatthews1280🐪

@tonyeriksson8803 11 месяцев назад

Oh, Patrick...

@Tyler-xf4kf 11 месяцев назад

That’s modalism Patrick!

@DoctorLazertron 11 месяцев назад

Listen up, Patrick

@Scoma19 11 месяцев назад

Thanks for doing tis Dr Cooper, very informative and interesting!

@Wanttoknowabout 11 месяцев назад

Fantastic presentation. This was really helpful! The slides made it easy to follow along.

@collettewhitney2141 11 месяцев назад

@dr Jordan another amazing prestige video god bless you ❤

@Tyler-xf4kf 11 месяцев назад

1. I have a few theological questions and I was wondering if you could answer them or point me in the right direction. What is the best way to reach you? I’m assuming email? 2. When will part 2 be uploaded? I really enjoyed this episode and can’t wait for the second part!

@eliegbert8121 11 месяцев назад

I know how I'm spending my Sunday afternoon.

@Gregorycrafter 6 месяцев назад

More on the heresy having the effect of refining what is true through knowing what is false, many thinkers throughout the ages expressed that very same thing! Like, De Maistre says "Providence - for whom everything, even an obstacle, is a means." and others like Edmund Burke, F. J. Stahl, Groen Van Prinsterer, have all expressed similar things!

@Robert-vv6qp 11 месяцев назад

Please make a video about the Brian Holdsworth and Gavin Ortlund videos. It relates to Lutheranism. Also, please make a point by point rebuttal. This issue is rarely discussed in detail. What about forgiveness being necessary for salvation?

@collin501 11 месяцев назад

I've heard that there are church fathers who used monarchy language for the Father while maintaining the eternal equality of the Son. I suppose similar to the way "persona" can be used for both trinity and modalism, maybe the monarchy can be used in an orthodox or heretical way. It makes me wonder, how much is one allowed to see the Father as the source of the Son and Spirit, before it's considered heresy.

@beardedbdub426 10 месяцев назад

Will you be getting to modern ways these ancient heresies are re-visited? I’m curious about “contemporary” invocations (like from “Creative Worship” or the kids hymnal “All God’s People Sing”) and baptismal formulas with “Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier” or other similar titles based on modes of function rather than The Name. Which heretics pushed certain expressions that we inadvertently pick up and use without understanding their origins? (I think Sebelius gave us the “Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier” language.)

@jvlp2046 10 месяцев назад

Deuteronomy 6:4... "Hear, O' Israel, the Lord our God is ONE."... What does the English word "ONE" have in context and meaning?... If God is a SPIRIT, how can anyone COUNT God?... ONE could mean UNITY, UNITED, or perhaps ONENESS or THE SAME... There is a big difference between "The Lord our God is ONE"... VS. ... "The Lord our God is ONLY (absolutely) ONE."... Amen.

@user-zero0945 11 месяцев назад

I have read in more than one writer that the first and archi heretic was Simon magus

@ludvigdeck5012 8 месяцев назад

May I ask you what you think on the removal of the trinitarian verse in 1 John 5.7, please , doctor? Do you approve it because of church history or do you reject it as a modern censurship?

@CliffCardi 10 месяцев назад

Matthew 27:46 says “About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). According to Sabellian logic, God is talking to himself.

@nomoresunforever3695 4 месяца назад

That's a quote from the old testament. He's not talking to the father there. He's talking to us.

@paulblase3955 11 месяцев назад

The problem is that the only way that we can describe the Trinity in order to envision it is through analogies, and any analogies are imperfect.

@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts 11 месяцев назад

And none of those analogies are from the Bible, they're all later additions, so they'll all be of their own time, and all that comes with that.

@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 11 месяцев назад

Taking the idea of magisterial vs ministerial thinking and applying it elsewhere, are YEC using magisterial thinking when they say the days of Genesis 1 are about light from the sun rather than light from the Son, the Word of God entering creation? IOW, is what is "literal" determined by our senses (the sun is the source of light) and reason or does the revelation from the text determine what is "literal" (Yahweh is the literal light of the world and the sun itself is a mere figure)?

@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 11 месяцев назад

when I express contrary opinions on a thread, I normally respond to fair questions asked in reply.

@vngelicath1580 11 месяцев назад

@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 That is a fair enough point. I've often thought the need for organizations like AiG/Hammites to argue for a scientifically coherent interpretation of an ancient Near Eastern document (however inerrant its content/message are) is certainly a kind of "Magisterial use of reason." How arrogant of us to assume that in order for an infallible text to be infallible it must be able to be understood as addressing our modern framework/conception of knowledge. The irony is that the YEC crowd tend to "de-mythologize" (explain away _embarrassing_ references to a mythic context with acceptable, modern alternatives: Behemoth = dinosaur, etc.) the text of Genesis as bad as the higher critics they despite, making the opposite side of a modernist coin.

@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 11 месяцев назад

@@vngelicath1580 when it comes to early Genesis, there is a lot of theology that isn't really in the bible out there from many sides. But really all I meant here was that maybe we should see "literal" as God sees it, and not impose our perspective of "literal" on the text. Same with "death'. To us it is when our heart stops. To God that's sleep, it isn't death unless that happens separated from Him.

@dave1370 11 месяцев назад

Anyone ever read St Basil the Great's Hexaemeron?

@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 11 месяцев назад

@@dave1370 I have. It is an early appeal to literalism. By which he means what we see.

@vngelicath1580 11 месяцев назад

Wait, where did all these Unitarians come from? Is this a new development?

@DrJordanBCooper 11 месяцев назад

I'll be dealing with that in this series.

@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts 11 месяцев назад

Suddenly: UNITARIANISM!

@joseortegabeede8233 11 месяцев назад

Magisterial use of reason would be denying the Real Presence because of "muH caNnibaLism" or because Christ is apparently held hostage at the right hand of the Father.

@hosea4660 2 месяца назад

To get to the truth you look closer to the time when the New Testament is written. Not further away, Bible doctrine has changed and been washed down by manmade doctrines and traditions throughout history.

@masbucket3083 9 месяцев назад

wow a lot of angry oneness heretics in this comment section, stay mad.

@mauricetooma7989 20 дней назад

The trinity IS the heresy. Worship the Father as Jesus did and you'll be ok.

@timothyneumann6586 11 месяцев назад

Please don't quit your day job. You don't play baseball for the Angels of Anaheim.

@claudiozanella256 11 месяцев назад

It is not understood why the trinity doctrine must be insisted upon since it is immediately EVIDENT to any unbiased reader of the gospels that it's a bogus theory, fully invented. That conventional doctrine was created with arrogance because directly contrary to Jesus' words. If Jesus were part of a TRIUNE GOD - as claimed by the doctrine - this would surely be CONFIRMED by Him! He would accordingly state to be both with 1. FATHER and 2. HOLY SPIRIT! But Jesus tells a definitely DIFFERENT STORY. He has NO IDEA what a "triune God" is supposed to be. Being with Father + Holy Spirit is thus FALSE, INVENTED, NOWHERE in the gospels. Jesus is ONLY WITH THE FATHER, as reiterated dozens of times by Him in all possible different ways. The Father with Jesus IS A SPIRIT (Jn. 4:23,24) who is either called "Holy Father" or "Holy Spirit" by Jesus. The Father who is a spirit (the Holy Spirit) comes from the Father who is NOT a Spirit (normal) and is AWAY. For this reason nobody ever saw Him, only Jesus did it.

@gianthebaptist 11 месяцев назад

Literally copying all my topics, with uncanny timing

@stevenwebb6253 10 месяцев назад

Sorry, Jesus isn’t God, nor equal to God. He called our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17.

@gszworc2 2 месяца назад

Arian! Classical heretic art thou!

@stevenwebb6253 Месяц назад

@@gszworc2 Sorry. I’m just sharing scriptures. Like these. Sorry, Jesus isn’t God, nor equal to God. He called our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17. See also: 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 4 Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. And…… John 17:3 “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.” The only true God…..

@euston2216 11 месяцев назад

14:02 - _"So a magisterial use of reason is where you have reason that takes precedence over scripture, and scripture is interpreted through the lens of what makes sense."_ And that right there describes Trinitarianism to a T. The "reason" that takes precedence over scripture is the "common sense" that the Father and the Son have to be two distinct persons, despite the scriptural revelation that the Father and the Son are the selfsame unipersonal Spirit, whose name is JESUS.

@paulblase3955 11 месяцев назад

But that's not what Scripture says.

@euston2216 11 месяцев назад

@@paulblase3955 What does Scripture say?

@IAmisMaster 11 месяцев назад

The greatest trinitarian heresy is Augustine’s heresies which Roman Catholics and Protestants lap up without question, that the One God is the Trinity, theophanies in the OT are actually created angels, etc. All these heresies (which Dr. Cooper sugar coats as “standing on the shoulders of giants” as he denigrates the true faith of St. Justin Martyr, etc) contradict the Scriptures, and all ante-Nicene Christians who coined the term “trinity” (St. Theophilus, Tertullian), and the very Nicene Creed’s attestation. The Trinity for the first 300 years of Christianity was (1) the One God, the Father, (2) the eternal Word and Son of God, Jesus Christ, and (3) the Holy Spirit. The Trinity includes the One God, the Father, but Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not the One God. They are “god” in a predicate sense. Even modern theologians like Dr. Beau Branson and Fr. John Behr have already refuted Dr. Cooper’s trinitarianism, as do the Scriptures plainly teaching the One God is the Father (1 Cor 8:5-6;, 1 Timothy 2:5, Ephesians 4:4-6).

@dave1370 11 месяцев назад

Nah.

@earlygenesistherevealedcos1982 11 месяцев назад

Is this how the Oneness Pentecostals like the Apostolic church teach it, or what church teaches this view now, if any?

@IAmisMaster 11 месяцев назад

@@dave1370Provide evidence of just one Christian up to AD 350 who said the Trinity is the One God instead of the Trinity being the One God, His Son, and His Holy Spirit. It should be easy if you were right.

@williampeters9838 11 месяцев назад

If that is true, that has many more implications than just theological development. That would alter the way Providence is understood to work in the Church. I’m not as informed or literate in this as you are, but to my thinking, if the Church was guilty of so great a heretical and confused ideology for the past 1700 years that would seem to break from the pattern and character of the Yahweh who reveals Himself increasingly throughout history. While I will not go as far as the Catholics I will say that a sizable degree of faith in the work of Providence through tradition is required. My proof against your claim is simply that I don’t believe God would allow the Church to be so misled about so great an issue that has very few dissenters.

@IAmisMaster 11 месяцев назад

@@williampeters9838 Jude 3 says the faith was once and for all delivered to the saints. Jesus says in John the Holy Spirit will guide his apostles in all truth. Paul says the entire gentile church could be cut off if they don’t abide in his goodness. It seems like you have Roman Catholic unbiblical predumptions about indefectability instead of clinging to the truth wherever it can be proven. There is no doubt the trinity doctrine of today is new.

@Catholic-Perennialist 11 месяцев назад

As an ordained Lutheran who makes his living as such, Dr. Cooper is not permitted to come to any conclusions apart from those "giants" he cites. Anyone who reads the Bible through, remembering what he reads, can poke holes in the Trinity and Incarnation all day long. Whats really funny is that Jesus shared the mysteries of the kingdom with his disciples literally for years without ever laying out these supposedly core teachings, and then commisioned Paul to start a mystery religion loosely based on the events of His life. So tiresome.

@doubtingthomas9117 11 месяцев назад

😂😂😂

@Catholic-Perennialist 11 месяцев назад

@@BenB23. Conservative Lutherans basically swear to uphold the BoC.

@IAmisMaster 11 месяцев назад

Augustinian trinitarianism is easy to refute. But the correct Trinity doctrine believed by all Christians for the first 300 years such as St. Theophilus, St. Irenaeus, Tertullian, etc., that the One God is the Father and the Trinity is (1) the One God, the Father, (2) His Son and Word, Jesus Christ, and (3) the Holy Spirit, is easily proven by Scripture and the early church.

@Catholic-Perennialist 11 месяцев назад

@@BenB23. Nope.

@dave1370 11 месяцев назад

@@IAmisMasterClement of Rome says Christ is God Himself before 100 AD. Also, St Peter calls Christ Our Great God and Savior.

@jvlp2046 10 месяцев назад

Deuteronomy 6:4... "Hear, O' Israel, the Lord our God is ONE."... What does the English word "ONE" have in context and meaning?... If God is a SPIRIT, how can anyone literally COUNT God?... ONE could mean UNITY, UNITED, or perhaps ONENESS or THE SAME... There is a big difference between "The Lord our God is ONE"... VS. ... "The Lord our God is ONLY (absolutely) ONE."... Amen.