The idea of having a separate compute unit is interesting. It would be cool having the option to have a few different headset "shell" options like a lower end LCD, mid-tier mini-LED and maybe a high-end microOLED with different lens options and like face and eye tracking and have the compute decoupled so you could keep the headset for several years and maybe just upgrade the compute unit to get more power. I don't think the industry is quite ready for that type of variety but one day perhaps. BTW, it threw me off not seeing you swipe your hair to the side every 30 seconds lol.
I genuinely would not mind if there was a tiered headset with different options. For example, I would be very happy with something close to a 1500x1500 per-eye OLED that is only a wireless PCVR headset. Imagine a Rift CV1 with WiFi and maybe a 2,000-3,000 mAh battery with an enclosed USB C port for charging with an external battery, or a Quest 2 with less compute and no inside-out tracking, basically.
A very interesting headset. 2.5kx2.5k per eye sounds nice on a micro--oled, until I think about Apple's 4Kx4K possible headset that could run virtual desktop to my PC and it's 4090. My wallet is terrified. I'm torn, because despite being an Applebro, I don't trust them with my privacy, and walking around my home 3d lidar mapping the entire place is a little too invasive for me.
5:51 - Another idea would be generally to just treat all VR headsets as just a monitor, due to how simple it currently is to PnP those. Basically all VR headsets are PnP but, require arbitrary software or something to make them "#special" and not compatible with this idea at the present moment, maybe useful in the future someday?
I think one reason companies are opting for this "smart peripheral" concept like the Magic Leap 2, is that it allows low latency/high intensity stuff such as cameras/eye tracking to be digested and spat out more simply while letting the main SoC just do the applications itself. Important if you want super high resolutions like 4k per eye/etc
Brad couldn’t agree more with the “puck.” Actually the first Magic Leap also used a puck design with the NVIDIA TX2, plus in an interview Nuwell has already talked about Snapdragon X2 to handle the spatial tracking & panel drivers, with an external Zen ? package externally. In my own design for the Occipital, I was designing a NVIDIA TX2 armband variant and mockups for testing usability. Yea, maybe you are too young to remember the Sony Walkman :) This has always been my biggest gripe from Meta and John Carmack who was stuck on the “Smartphone in your face” design. I like my Quest 2, but it do get “brow aches” after a few minutes. As much as I feel the BigPicture is too expensive and narrow FOV, I really, really like the direction they went. Frankly, they could have kept it close to the same size with a 2” , 2K panel for about half the cost with 110 FOV and half the PPI, but that would put it in HP territory which isn’t a bad option for this size of an HMD. I know most of these HMDs are vacant plastic shells as I proved with an early HP WMR HMD that I pulled out the board and optics box, gaffer taped it (actually very nice wire cloth tape) and cut the weight to 150g with a custom crown band and mount from my “Stealth” NEODiVR IPhone HMD mount. Keep up the great work!
I really enjoyed this whole comment. And it’s actually really funny because I tweeted around the same exact time a reference to the Walkman! In relation to this puck concept! But ya, thanks for the kind words. And cool info about your mock-up
Brad, brad, brad. If you think for one god damn second that apple will let us replace ANYTHING on this you’re most likely wrong. As cool as puck upgrades would be, I bet you a top end apple headset that they will at most allow within generation upgrading. I refuse to believe that they will allow backwards compatibility. .
@@robotman011yeah and Apple will almost certainly keep their usb-c cables locked down in a way that forces Apple users to use Apple certified usb-c cables
Well, others will surely follow and make their selling point being able to upgrade EITHER the processing/storage/battery life of your puck, or use the HMD of your choice when Apple won't. Wouldn't be the first time Apple has made that historical mistake....A whole market might emerge for belt form-factor micro PCs or VR-boosting tablets, maybe? nVidia might love to bring Tegra back for that.
Michael Abrash talked about AR glasses being light glasses connected to some sort of compute on your body being the obvious direction over 5 years ago, so I imagine Meta's already been looking into its development.
@@BaronPsycho It's for better positioning of lower limbs. When looking around in real life, we turn our torso *without* also turning our feet and legs, but current VR tracking solutions don't take that into account and will often mangle the position of your legs when you turn your torso to look further than your neck alone can rotate. This happens even if you are wearing leg trackers, because the system can't tell the direction of your torso in relation to your feet and legs. You can technically purchase another tracker for use on the hips, but this is an added expense that most people won't front, especially when most trackers are sold in pairs, so allowing the "compute puck" that will be attached at the waist *anyway* to allow *itself* to be tracked too would be an awesome addition, lest it often look like you have broken legs in VR Chat. lol
Valves spatially-varying polariser is for detecting small angles changes. They're still going for the ultimate "one ms latency, one millimetre and one degree accuracy" goal.
I like the idea of the puck, at least to get rid of batteries at the back of your head. When sitting down in a large and comfy chair or laying down, those batteries get in the way.
really thanks for your job to vr comunity...you are my main reference in VR hardware.... also long time I ve been waiting some deckard updates....and what updates !!!!! so exciting ! thx again brad!!!
I've no idea why they don't mount the batteries and processing on the belt as standard. Nobody cares about 500g on their belt but 100g on their eye sockets makes a massive difference. Also, a direct cable connection to my belt is far less of a concern than one that tugs on the side of my head.
Having a cable that is just around you and while you wave your hands around can easily disconnect (if you dislike feeding the cable under a shirt). I personally like the idea of putting the battery in your pocket, but it seems companies believe that the average person does not want that.
Most underrated and underutilized thing about puck systems is that, if you can put an IMU in it, you can now measure waist orientation separate from hands and controllers.
My heart kind of sank when I heard you saying Valve will heave over Lighthouse 2.0 production back to HTC. And then I heard you speculate about Lighthouse 3.0
HTC handling production means better scale production, they're much better at mass producing hardware compared to valve And lighthouse tracking isn't dead.
@@BaronPsycho It's still flawed technology, all tracking systems have weak points. Lighthouse sends a lasor out so it still needs line of sight, so you can still find deadzones in the tracking. The Quest Pro controllers arguable offers better support in this regard as the controllers self track and can't be ocluded by objects like your body or a desk for example but these arn't perfect either as they require certain lighting conditions for the cameras to function.
I see so many people texting/surfing/etc. and walking or even bike riding. When we get good affordable AR sunglasses that can access a smart phone. It's going to be a huge shot in the arm for AR/VR. I think.
It's been kinda crazy that it's been 4 years nearly since the index came out and we still have nothing right now that's as affordable and compelling. The beyond would be perfect with wireless and eye tracking, but I hope a 3rd party can implement those features for it. I really want HTC to not fail as they keep the lighthouse system relevant and I want it to stay! I'm excited for new hardware but it does feel somehow every new headset has a compromise in some way to the index
It's fairly heavy, the resolution is low and it's cable hell. Quite honestly, I much prefer the comfort and ease of the Pico 4 with wireless PCVR. Hoping to see a wireless device that also has HDR and better black levels, but I'd say the Pico 4 is pretty much the most affordable way of getting into PC VR while still getting a good experience. At least, at the moment.
I've been tethering my QPro to a Goal Zero Venture powerpack in my hoodie pocket for playing RecRoom paintball and Walkabout Golf with friends. Because our sessions tend to run 2 hours or more, needed the added battery. It's fine, folks. It won't ruin anyone's 'immersion' by offloading some of the HMD weight to your belt by wire.
This is all great news! We need more cutting edge manufacturing and more competition from companies in this space. As much as I don't like Apple they can get other companies to take this more seriously and speed up advancement in VR 🙂
Brad has the eyes like he has seen half life 3 demo, and escaped valve. rumor is, they kill every developer after writing a single line of code, so not even them will know it is being developed.
Hey Brad, 16:00 Btw if you don't samsung is already in vr/ar market they have their headset launched a year ago in 2021 called "Samsung HMD Odyssey+ Windows mixed reality" It was even available on Amazon But was discontinued lately! Have some research on this! It had controllers too just like valve or any other. It was pc powered steam-vr experiences!
Yup I’m aware of that HMD. It actually came out around 2018 and was discontinued almost a year later. This is not Samsungs first time in XR. They hopped in and out multiple times to test the waters
Wouldn’t “Must go faster” be a jurassic park reference and not a sonic reference? But thank you for all the info. Companies keep people in the dark entirely too long.
I could imagine the cable being too bulky for Apple to move the processing to the pocket. I guess it would have to be DisplayPort 2.0 to transfer high quality 8k120 and data from and to the headset.
I've always wondered why headsets don't go the puck route, then make the phone everyone already has become the puck. Want better graphics, get a longer cable and make your PC the puck. With the speed technology changes putting the graphics processing in the headset never made sense to me.
Agree! Plus the fact they're not making their chips - aka, everyone would have access to the same XR(XX) chip. Granted, I dont want to see Meta or other VR companies make their own - but still, technology is going to change quickly and having access to stronger hardware in the only real way out. The headset can offer streaming for the most now a days as well once they start offering AV1 support at the hardware level.
20:38 That's probably a reference to Jurassic Park; a line said by Jeff Goldblum. You're thinking of "Gotta go fast", from the US opening theme to Sonic X.
I find it disappointing that VR/AR/MR companies are dragging their feet on FOV. I think lack of FOV is the most immersion breaking aspect of current VR. Tired of feeling like I'm looking through a hole in a fence.
The absolute dream, would be for Steam VR compatibility for the Reality Pro. If that happened I'd probably buy it along with a 4080ti..... 4k x 4k per eye micro oled, pancake lenses, Index level FoV, lightweight and small headset with all those features.....as close to perfect as I could ever hope for.
If I recall correctly, lighthouse 2.0 has never been a requirement for anything, correct? IE every headset supports lighthouse 1.0, you can go with 2.0 If you want larger tracking volumes + better tracking.
I think so. I kept my 1.0 setup when I moved to the Index and its actually been helpful to me on occasion (more so early on) when a game wasnt playing nice with knuckles, I could use Index with Vive wands. Havent used them in years now, but it was nice to have the option.
It might make sense to produce a high end headset, if their main thing is basically creating an OS or interface to it. As if the platform were developed to a low end device, it would not be future oriented in the same way.
Also creating something that *could be* worth the price, rather than subsidizing something good enough might not allow situations like meta had with the quest pro. Where many people were like "ok ya this hmd is good, but not 5x the price good"
@@SadlyItsBradley if valves gonna use their same amd processor, doesn't that not support thunderbolt? I don't want compressed video like using the quest cable and a PC.
I really hope they do ability to use their apple glasses with just single macbook without additional processing unit cause I travel with macbook anyway.
A kind of mixed rendering already exists with the Oculus Quest 2 (and probably other XR2 headsets). I once tried to edit a video on my PC with Davinci Resolve using my Index, but it was a jerky experience and didn't work. The PC had to render the entire video in Davinci and also deal with all the VR stuff. However, with the Quest 2, it was possible. The PC only needs to handle Davinci Resolve, and the Quest 2 takes care of all the VR stuff (tracking, 3D cinema, and displaying the 2D image on a large screen). The same goes for a weak laptop: Immersed works on the laptop with the Quest 2, but I don't even bother trying to connect my Valve Index or G2.
Is the Apple headset gonna have controllers or is it just gonna be purely hand tracking based? Because if it's the latter, it's only gonna be useful for gaming if the hand tracking system is robust enough to not lose tracking during fast movements, and if Virtual Desktop's controller emulation improves enough to be actually viable.
So 4K as in 4,000x4,000, not "4K" like the marketing standard of around 2,160x2,160. I don't think enough journalists have emphasized this sometimes confusing difference!
@@frankdux9254 you're right w tv, but I think the aspect ratio is different in hmds, so the 2160 figure in both tv and hmds like Reverb G2 are considered akin to 4K. At any rate, I'd rather hear pixel per degree for these new headsets!
Puck & anything else needs to be designed into something similar to a travel neck pillow type accessory. Throw cameras everything you can there. Much better to carry weight on shoulders that head.
already 5 years ago I bet that apple never will do the computing direct in the HMD. This is concept is an dead end for highend systems because it is hot, heavy, uncomfortable and has an way too short life cycle to invest in an expanded divice. Goal must be to compute the 3D Stuff in the cloud but until than only a device on the hipp or a iPhone make sense to me. With this you have a good reason to invest in good/expensive glasses because you can keep it like a monitor over more generations and update only the computing unit
an issue though with the puck/belt battery/processer, is you still have a fucking wire on your back. And you'd need a solid set of pants or belt, so loose gym shorts etc wouldnt work
@@rangerkayla8824 Honestly I don't really care if you don't think a mobile phone is a computer. It is. A phone is a really simple device compared to modern pocket computers.
I really think that having a lightweight headset and a waist/back/wherever mounted unit with all the processing power is indeed the way forward, just have a nice light compact head unit with options to plug it into your PC or a little (easily upgradable) all in one processing unit you can clip to your belt or wherever you choose for when you want to wander around untethered. Put the weight somewhere it doesn't matter rather than on your head.
Imagine having a headset where you just plug it into your pc and it has the same specs as that apple oven they seem to be building. Just take out all the soc and useless garbage. I would definitely buy that.
Paused vid, need to make battery comment - IMO enclosing a processor expected to get very hot along with lithium batteries is just asking for trouble. EDIT - the Magic Leap II I see is two segments divided by air space, so batt and CPU not actually enclosed together then.
Never understood why having the battery and compute on a box on your waist or back is not more a thing. The CPU/GPU power in a headset is always limited by cooling concerns and battery life. Sticking the compute on a separate box gives you a lighter headset, better compute power and more battery life. It would give the users the flexibility on upgrading the computer power over time. Hope we see this more in the future.
It doesn't have to be in a separate box it just needs to be replaceable. Having it outside your headset means that now you have to keep track of multiple things and more prone to errors and mishaps. The compute unit should be removable and swappable. Check out SimulaVR they essentially do that
@@halcyonramirez6469 can't be replaceable - things change and that means it will never work out as an upgrade method. The only way to make it replaceable is to remove it from the headset and have a stander cable to communicate between the two devices. There are more cons to keep it inside the headset than out - it be no different than this headset working with your phone if you ask me.
@adr2t not replaceable because that's the apple way of doing things. it's the same concept for a PC basically. you just swap out parts and upgrade as needed. they can standardize their software and create the replacement hardware themselves. but no way in hell are they doing that.
@@halcyonramirez6469 For apple? No. For Meta? No. Not sure who you mean really? Apple wont because they never have nor will. Meta wont because they don't make the SoC and the SoC pin lay outs will change when the SoC needs to make a change (and thats pretty much every time). The only time you will see that expcetion is if they SoC (CPUs like AMD or Intel) have to match a number of different functions/features and they have a large enough market for. Something VR has neither at this time. The best bet would be for those companies to split what is the headset and what the computer in this case... its the only way to make it "upgradeable" in any meaning of the word for them and for us. (Sorry, we might be speaking the same thing just in a different light).
Rendering in a external portable unit (for which split rendering is a variant). I’ve also been thinking that’s the way to go for a long time. For Apple and Valve. And for the many reasons that you mention. Meta had a pattent in wich the case was the cpu/gpu. In that idea it was a wireless emmiter, if I remember well, so there still had to be battery in the headset.
I’ve also always thought that was what Valve was saying when he talked abour future Steamdeck and VR integration a looong time ago. I though I was the only one.
Why have those analysts already a price tag for the displays? Sounds like the displays are already in production, not waiting for Samsung/LG finishing their new uOLED assembly lines. This leads me to the old "Apple & Valve coop on eMagin Steamboat display" conspiracy theory. Which means: maybe the displays for Deckard are already in production, too! COPIUM! 🤪
Brad, could this mean that the rumours of valve having a standalone headset model/version/hybrid thing be true, Valve Deckard could be running a custom AMD chip like the steam deck and it could run on a custom version of Steam OS 3/4 that is focused on VR
my body is already dying since i sell my Valve index cause i was in despair need for money and was hoping the index 2 is soon coming DAMN i was so wrong.... and its extreme how much my health and stamina goes down since i dont have the index anymore... i was playing every day Rec Room, Knockout League and beatsaber and i never relized how much that helps me haha.... i really hope the new one comes soon :[ i have the feeling when i waste my money now on the index 1 again one day later comes the releasedate trailer for the index two xD
The Puck is a terrible idea. If my experience trying to run a wire to an external battery in my back pocket are anything to go by, this will severely reduce mobility. Also, "Must go faster" is a Jurassic Park reference.
They can still keep it wireless for the most part over encoding and a lighter battery for the headset it self, but moving the compute is still the better way to go.
I'm a bit skeptical of the apple Mixed reality head set I think 100 percent that apple could pull it off but it's rare for them to do something that is still kind of niche. Normally they wait for a technology to be perfected
CrApple will not be getting my money even if they could pull a "demolition man" and there were the only tech company left to buy from. I am still hoping for valve next HMD that does inside out tracking. John from digital foundry said the PSVR2 didn't fog up like many of the PC HMD's and I think that alone is a reason you should review it. You can check out their latest df weekly to see what he's talking about. I don't want to be forced to use base stations, but I'd like to have they as an OPTION for times inside out tracking fails.
Please ignore the typos. I'm not going to be editing my comments as BigG has been making many of my comments on videos disappear especially if I use the edit button.
I don't think Apple is any more or less evil than any other publicly traded company. Personally I'll get wahtever product is the best because I will have given my money to an evil corporation regardless of who I give my money to.
