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The Largest Unsolved Problem in VR. 

ThrillSeeker
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Hello.
So, this is a bit different. I initially started this video while creating my own VR operating system tech demo. I have always been a bit frustrated with VR user interfaces and the general unintuitive nature of a lot of VR design elements so I spent a few weeks experimenting with different hand menus, passthrough options, feedback methods. At the end of my prototyping phase I had a working demo.. but I wanted to learn more.
So, I spoke with a few design experts that specialize in VR design. This lead me down a rabbit hole so deep that I honestly didn't know if I was ever going to make it out. I read as many design books as I possibly could, talked to more design experts and became entrenched in the world of design. This video the result of that deep dive I have been in for the past couple months. Identifying the core principles of design, how it's built the things we have today and how its going to build the things of tomorrow- but i think most importantly with this video- I identify the core issues I have regarding VR design and introduce a set of principles that I strongly believe should guide VR design philosophy in the future. Most importantly; the VR OS Conceptual model.
I had an incredible time researching and learning everything I could. It felt amazing to be a sponge and I hope you can walk away from this video with some of the same joy I had in research.
This is generally relevant to all sections of VR whether you have a quest 2, quest 3, Index, Beyond, Pimax or Apple Vision Pro. Lemme know what you think about this new style :) hope you like the renders!
Join my discord to talk more about VR design with me:
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Intro
01:34 PART I: DESIGN
05:23 PART II: TODAY'S DESIGN
08:16 PART III: THE VR DESIGN PARADOX
14:07 PART IV: BUILDING THE PERFECT VR OS
22:47 PART V: SIMULACRUM INTUITIVA
25:20 Outro

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17 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 2,2 тыс.   
@ThrillSeekerVR
@ThrillSeekerVR 15 дней назад
I hope you enjoyed this one. I spent a lot of time on this video and had a ton of fun hand animating everything. Feels so good to evolve my content to talk about VR on a deeper level. I have no clue how this video will "do", but I felt it was an important video to make and I want to make more stuff like this. We're in this together! Lemme know what you thought! Also, the STL for my Controller holsters are in my discord server: discord.gg/Thrill It's also a great place to talk deeply about VR stuff like this!
@ryrypk
@ryrypk 15 дней назад
After editing many videos myself the amount of small things that I see in terms of animation and editing is insane, and you really rocked the charts with this one. Good job not only to the hand-crafted animations but to the story and outline of this video in itself. Amazing work like always thrill.
@expierreiment
@expierreiment 15 дней назад
Omg the production value on this piece is so high! Great job Thrill. Also I feel heavy "Disrupt" vibes.
@russmack11
@russmack11 15 дней назад
Probably my favorite video you've made so far!
@GreenBlueWalkthrough
@GreenBlueWalkthrough 15 дней назад
I had to dislike this video it was buetifully flawed in everyway... For exemples to the thesis... Great watch if you have no idea what XR is or what design, engeering is... Like the quest 3 is suffering from good design but bad eggeering like all new tech do... Want a Duel screen phone? They all suck to use on android because andoird is softwear limiting them even if they are good design like the Nintedo DS which had amazing engeering.
@stcredzero
@stcredzero 15 дней назад
About halfway through as I'm writing this. I've been thinking along the same lines, but it has drawn me to an uncomfortable conclusion from the perspective of VR enthusiasts: Advanced AI and robotics are likely going to "eat" VR for mainstream people. This will happen in 2 ways: 1) If design of VR is going to be dominated by affordances, signifiers, and feedback derived from real world objects, then physical objects in the form of AI robots and other devices are going to have more satisfying design and will hold more interest to people for most applications. VR will still have a place, where the cost of actually constructing what is portrayed would be prohibitive in money and/or time. This will also create a new dynamic of economic disparity, where VR alternatives will be chosen by those who cannot afford the physical version. 2) Another way, in which future AI will "eat" VR, is that it's inevitable that in the future VR most displays/interfaces/design will be created by generative AI. Imagine asking a generative AI familiar with The Design of Everyday Things to create a Johnny Mnemonic style interface our of your personal data. This is inevitable, because such displays would be tremendously useful, but the only way such displays could be economically produced is to have generative AI models produce them.
@RavenTaleLive
@RavenTaleLive 15 дней назад
More people should be saying this out loud. It has been many years and it almost feels like we haven't made any steps towards figuring out a proper method of interfacing with VR.
@Fredomnom
@Fredomnom 15 дней назад
ts not just interfacing, every type of progress feels really slow at the moment, dk why 😵‍💫
@kuromiLayfe
@kuromiLayfe 15 дней назад
biggest issue is that most interfaces are build on flat dimensions just X and Y .. with VR/AR we suddenly get Z and everything in between added to it, yet our brains are trained to visualize only on these X and Y planes.
@Atmatan_Kabbaher
@Atmatan_Kabbaher 15 дней назад
​@@FredomnomThere is a massive heatsink of imagination where good ideas are currently going to die. I'm still trying to figure out why. Life does feel very flat and stagnant currently, but it may just be a calm before the storm. There's a new Wave coming.
@MauseDays
@MauseDays 15 дней назад
@@Fredomnom becouse we are in a time of cold w r and looming civil w rf re, there is no time for progress when the western world stands on the brink of complete civil and race w r f re in 5 short months thats why. There is no progress there likely will not be any more in our life time. We are in the troubles now. survivel is all you will be thinking about. There is no time for advancement of peaceful or inciteful things. Only survival at any cost.
@citizenz580
@citizenz580 15 дней назад
@@kuromiLayfe Read this SGI article from 2008. Using a technology they called VUE, they wanted to overcome the mechanical hurdles that would allow SGI to solve the collaboration-at-a-distance problem. "SGI has identified three problems that they feel users face with respect to managing and understanding large amounts of data. In the scientific space, computational models are larger and more complex. Second, large data consumers are often a part of global teams, both in scientific and industrial computing organizations, and in organizations that aren’t traditionally compute-intensive but are increasingly data driven Finally, SGI points to information overload as a characteristic of our society, pointing to studies like the one from IDC last year, which estimated the amount of digital data created in 2006 to be 161 exabytes. The same study estimated the amount of digital data would grow to 988 exabytes by 2010, with only 600 exabytes of storage available worldwide. If these numbers are even in the ballpark, we’ll have to do a lot of analysis on the fly, making decisions and losing the original data with tools built to support large scale streams of transient data." SGI sees a market opportunity in all of this data and, according to Pette, the company’s goal is to enable customers to “visualize anything anywhere, at any time, on any device.” This is why apple is going to release a ARM SOC with a hardware based path tracer. It will load the entire house/scene into memory and path trace the world into the HMD. This enables a UI that respects the user, by causing objects and panels or anything rendered in this system to respect the world physically while looking real. Basically, Reality simulator. Like, real "Virtual Reality". The holy grail. This is what is referred to as the commoditization of 3d photorealism for the masses, enabled by new and cheap hardware based rendering techniques.
@Demmrir
@Demmrir 15 дней назад
Ironically, the biggest problem for VR interfaces is "infinite affordances". It isn't just that you CAN do anything, it's that there is no way to prevent the user from doing anything. In real life, a table is easy to use. You can rest your elbows on it, you can place objects on it, you can sit on it. It won't allow you to accidentally pick it up by pushing your hand through it, and objects won't fall through it if placed a bit too low. Same with walls, and doors, steering wheels, flight sticks, and all physical objects. VR introduces a fundamental, physical disconnect between the conceptual objects you're interacting with and any affordances the application is attempting to force on them for practical reasons and the actual physical affordances provided you, ie infinite ability to manipulate your hands around the objects. It also dramatically reduces the reliability of feedback for these operations since there is no physical response, no resistance, no click, nothing but visuals and sound, which are in fairness poor feedback for physical interactions. It's why good car design promotes buttons and knobs over touchscreens--the former is just dramatically better to use than the latter since the latter necessarily occupies more attention, lacking several forms of physical feedback (while STILL having more than VR, because at least you know if you touched the surface in the first place, or passed through it).
@Vickyorlo
@Vickyorlo 15 дней назад
It's wild to me how this whole video quickly glosses over the problem of feedback and lack thereof, when I'd probably say that it's a huge contributor to VR interfaces feeling so off and awkward. The fact that SteamVR is a mess of menus isn't the thing that ruins my experience - it's that when I want to pick out an item from my virtual tactical vest, I need to look down to see where the magical zone that contains the item is located, whereas in real life I would simply be able to quickly feel out the item with my hands. That when I swing a virtual sword, the best way to do it, no matter how hard the game tries to emulate weight, is to just wildly twist my wrist as if I were holding a magic wand. That when I need to interact with menus, I'm left awkwardly pointing at things, an abysmal recreation of the touch screen, an input method that already sucks, but at least I can tell when my fingers are making contact.
@SmokeandSpirit
@SmokeandSpirit 15 дней назад
Yeah, kind of related to this is the fact i can stick my head through walls. Its a complex issue and kind of breaks immersion, in a game especially.
@YOOOOOOOOOOOOO-dv2nt
@YOOOOOOOOOOOOO-dv2nt 15 дней назад
I'm a huge fan of Physics-based combat games in VR. Even developing one myself. And your point is 100% true. The question for us is "how do we mimic the ease of real life interactions and give as much feedback as possible using the 3 mediums we have to work with? (visual, audio and haptics) " If you don't have any in-game physics, you have a disconnect with real life. Simultaneously, if you do have in-game physics, you still have a disconnect, but it has shifted from a non-corporeal (the classic no-physics floaty hands in games) to a physical disconnect, where real-life physics of the player (such as hand position) is desynced from the in-game player proxy (the player's hands/controller is on the other side of the virtual wall, but their in-game character's hand will not go through it.) Such a tricky space, with only one logical end point: The dystopian nightmare of hijacking the body to provide a direct simulation-input link. Luckily we are very far away from this, but I'm sure companies like Meta are thinking about it.
@DWal32
@DWal32 15 дней назад
@@Vickyorlo it was likely glossed over because there is no good solution besides haptic feedback. for example, how are you supposed to simulate the weight of a virtual sword? by magically attaching a 20kg weight to someone's hands? how are you supposed to recreate the coldness of gunmetal in games like boneworks? the roughness of stone?
@xomvoid_akaluchiru_987
@xomvoid_akaluchiru_987 14 дней назад
As you said, part of the issue with vr and affordances is that when you have a movable object in VR, people expect it to behave like a moveable object, they have their conceptual model, but the object has more restrictive affordances than real life. You expect the object to be picked up, the have physics and weight, but not to have it suddenly snap into your hand because you were trying to gesture. Now think about it for the developers perspective: you have to manually add the object's functionality. Maybe there isn't a system developed to have the user and object interact perfectly as in the real world. Maybe you just can't add perfect functionality to the object because of hardware limitations. Now you are forced to compromise on the function, and often times the compromises result in unwelcome popups, annoying objects snapping to your hands, objects floating around and cluttering peoples view. It's easy to see how developers can struggle with some of these things. Basic UI on the otherhand? There absolutely should be a standard and a flow for usage.
@ragnarok7976
@ragnarok7976 12 дней назад
You know how we invented computers so we wouldn't have to physically walk to a filing cabinet and look through it? What if we went backwards...
@goos42
@goos42 11 дней назад
that isn't why we invented computers tho... they were invented to do math quickly
@GUMMY_MKII
@GUMMY_MKII 11 дней назад
​@@goos42 It's a Ready Player One reference
@goos42
@goos42 11 дней назад
@@GUMMY_MKII oh my bad i didn't know that
@GUMMY_MKII
@GUMMY_MKII 11 дней назад
@@goos42 well you're still right
@prelawnoob
@prelawnoob 10 дней назад
​@@goos42they were made to quickly decode German Comms in ww2
@absrndm
@absrndm 12 дней назад
I'm a game developer who always was obsessed with interactions and interfaces, it always was so obvious to me why a game felt good to the hand or not in an intuitive way. This video gave me the right framework to translate that "lens" to VR development, which I'm currently delving into. I followed you for a while now, this is the most helpful video you ever made to push forward VR. Thank you!!
@airplanes_aren.t_real
@airplanes_aren.t_real 15 дней назад
Personally I still feel like the biggest thing holding the industry back is that 90% of the companies producing this only see it as a side venture if that, if vr is just a throwaway product these companies will randomly throw money at then I can't see it improving considerably in the next few years
@levoGAMES
@levoGAMES 15 дней назад
I know you said 90%, so this may merely be an addendum; but I like how meta threw so much capital at this tech. Certainly not without self interest, but still an appreciated contribution in these pioneering times.
@keterclassentity6716
@keterclassentity6716 15 дней назад
a lot of game companies are throwing good vr games at it near the end of year, quest 3 is going to be the next wii
@jimcobbler3954
@jimcobbler3954 15 дней назад
There’s also no laid out design practices, and issues with tracking accuracy complicate stuff. Companies don’t want to invest a crap ton into experimental UI when they have something that works to an acceptable degree.
@zwenkwiel816
@zwenkwiel816 15 дней назад
Exactly. It's all just tiny dev teams with tiny budgets. Even the big games like assasins creed or horizon are just little spin off games. how is any of that supposed to compete with the game library of a ps5, Xbox or steam?!
@zwenkwiel816
@zwenkwiel816 15 дней назад
​@@levoGAMESyeah Meta definitely tried but I don't think it was enough. Like money can't fix everything. Not sure if it was the technical limitations of the quest or just not enough quality devs but the vast majority of games felt more like mobile games than full on AAA titles. Also think the hate for Meta doesn't really help. People just love to hate on Meta (and in many cases rightfully so) Maybe a more experienced and "gamer positive" company like Valve or even Nintendo (they're great with underpowered hardware) could do it.
@bananabread3360
@bananabread3360 15 дней назад
It feels like a lot of people overlook vr ui, when in reality it’s a large portion of what makes the experience immersive or not. If an interface is intuitive, you don’t think about it, but if it gets in the way, you do think about it and that takes you out of the experience. It would be like going on a Disney world attraction only to see a staff member desperately try to reconnect a wire to one of the anamatronics.
@cheezeebutter452
@cheezeebutter452 15 дней назад
Or like if you had to reconnect that wire to get the animatronic working. You don’t even work there you just want to enjoy the ride!
@EmergencyTemporalShift
@EmergencyTemporalShift 15 дней назад
BANNANA BREAD!
@bananabread3360
@bananabread3360 15 дней назад
@@EmergencyTemporalShift YOOOO, BRO DETECTED IN COMMENT SECTION!!
@este_marco
@este_marco 14 дней назад
@@cheezeebutter452 this ^
@komradekalashnikov40k18
@komradekalashnikov40k18 11 дней назад
I do agree. However. If you get good enough at a vr game (just like any other) you can easily immerse yourself and just have that game world be second nature.
@simony5807
@simony5807 13 дней назад
I am in school for design engineering and this is a great summary of the basic problem every day people have when becoming frustrated with a piece of technology they don't understand. Thank you for this great video
@mortonj02
@mortonj02 11 дней назад
You shouldnt need to understand something to use it. That is the problem
@majapaja_
@majapaja_ 8 дней назад
​@@mortonj02 No the problem is how to most effectively communicate that understanding so the user doesn't get frustrated
@toonilooni7484
@toonilooni7484 8 дней назад
I've always thought that Rec Room had pretty good steps for vr menus and navagation. Relating your own world to a dorm, with the lobby being accessible by a door in the same world. It feels like one connected space. Even if you want to skip that process you have a holographic watch, with pushable buttons that give feedback and pictures that give a clear signifier to where it leads or what it does. Even when you get into making custom gamemodes it uses things like paint guns for modeling and circuts for setting game rules. The entire game uses something similar to something real which makes finding out what your doing very simple to beginers and why it's a great starting point for any VR noob especially since its free.
@nickof-time8777
@nickof-time8777 15 дней назад
One of the most striking events of VR done right is the locks in Half-Life: Alyx. Puzzle-solving in a 3-dimensional space where interaction doesn't inhibit movement was mind-blowing. It gave a good impression of what a holographic UI could be.
@illuminoeye_gaming
@illuminoeye_gaming 9 дней назад
HL: Alyx was the last hurrah of valve's innovation
@BradChadley
@BradChadley 4 дня назад
​@@illuminoeye_gamingtheir last hurrah? You have zero fucking clue of that's going to be their last hurrah or not, tf is the point of commenting that?
@illuminoeye_gaming
@illuminoeye_gaming 4 дня назад
@@BradChadley why are you so mad on behalf of the company that makes more money than we'll ever see in our lives through Steam sales my point was essentially just that valve just doesn't make cool games like they used to - if you saw the leaks about their supposed upcoming hero shooter type game??? like, looks formulaic as hell.
@BradChadley
@BradChadley 4 дня назад
@@illuminoeye_gaming I don't give a single fuck about valve, your comment was just stupid. Valve has a history of not doing anything for years before they release something worthwhile (took awhile for HL Alyx, for example). Give it another 5 or 10 years and then we'll know if they're done or innovating or not. Even then, if they're still afloat via Steam, they may start innovating again in future. Your comment is stupid because you spoke matter of factly about something that can't be proven one way or another till time has passed, not because I'm defending valve you dork
@Twiddle_things
@Twiddle_things 3 дня назад
​@@BradChadley we don't live in the Orange Box era anymore, sadly
@TheVirtualRealityShow
@TheVirtualRealityShow 15 дней назад
My favorite Thrillseeker video yet. It's hard to put into words ~why~ VR UI is so frustrating (especially for first-timers), but you successfully made a comphrensible breakdown dedicated to just that. This is a video for both developers & players a like. And a great reference I will be sending to people for a long time!
@Fredomnom
@Fredomnom 15 дней назад
found the motion and 3d design impressive too 👀
@scopie49
@scopie49 15 дней назад
I think one of the biggest reasons VR UI is frustrating is consistency. He mentioned this in the video about Meta's settings and it really does annoy me. From the Oculus main menu you have your settings panel but if you connect to PC you can't access that same settings panel without completely disconnect your link with the computer. There is a completely *different* settings panel within the link area where even something like volume options look different. There's also no passthrough when linked which means you have to be in position before doing anything otherwise you have to take your headset off to see the real world and make sure you're not going to hit something. Or if you want to pause the game you can't see someone talking to you without, again, taking off the headset. I have Synthriders and Audio Trip. Two very similar games yet one uses controller lasers and the other requires 'physical button presses' in the VR space. I've played games where grabbing objects uses either the trigger or the lower trigger button. Really easy to drop things when you're not consciously thinking about which game you're currently in. There's also just buggy issues like games that won't recenter, or games that the play area moves if you take off the headset and you can't get it back to the right position. All of this is inconsistency. The things you expect to happen don't. There's no standard for the developers. VR is still a niche thing with everyone trying to be the 'winner' so there hasn't been much effort in all these big companies coming together and saying, here's what works for our users and we are ALL going to make stuff work this way so that it eventually becomes second nature.
@tinminator8905
@tinminator8905 15 дней назад
I never found VR UI too frustrating in a vacuume. It is just regular 2D UI controlled with a controller pointer instead of a mouse cursor or a touch screen. It can be annoying because it doesn't integrate into the VR-experience at all and there is a disconnect between the two, since it is port over from a different medium. For me that is not really difficult to put into words. I don't think he also put it into words as far as I remember? I feel like instead of demystifying it, he himself used a very transient explanation that doesn't actually explain anything in any detail. I dunno, to me there really wasn't a lot of substance in the second half of the video.
@NanoNutrino
@NanoNutrino 15 дней назад
Watch out, I get stalker vibes from this one
@skywolfzayazi7843
@skywolfzayazi7843 15 дней назад
Huh? ​@@NanoNutrino
@adammaidment190
@adammaidment190 12 дней назад
I've been a gamer since the 80s. I'm a developer of 24 years. I run a Design and Branding agency in London. I've a small gaming RU-vid channel and am a big VR enthusiast in my spare time. I've been a fan of yours for over 4 years and I'd like to think I'm well-positioned to have an opinion on the state of VR and design, however, this is one of the most succinct, well-considered and thought-provoking videos on design within the VR space I've seen. So much so that I'm compelled to comment and congratulate you on such a great video. I know you've taken time away from YT and had a change of direction and I appreciate the time it takes to produce content of this calibre. Well done. Keep up the good work for as long as it drives you. The concept that a virtual object is simply a Skeumoprhism is a double-edged sword. It positions designers in a place where the rules of physics, space and time should be consistent if we wish the user to understand intuitively what the object is they perceive and how we expect them to interact with it. On the flip side, this means we're bound to create simulated replicas of the real world (hyper-accurate as they may be) which limits the true potential and creativity of 'Virtual Reality'. Taking your door analogy, we expect to be able to push or pull the door to open it and for it to remain a fixed size and shape, but if it was to scale if pushed, translate if pulled or morph into a pink elephant when opened this blows the concept of skeuomorphism out of the water. There is conceptual flexibility within an immersive environment, however, unifying a common UI language across providers and platforms is certainly key. Skeuomorphism is ubiquitous to the personal computing experience whether you are on a PC, Mac, Linux or a MU-TH-UR 6000. Like the floppy disk simply used to 'save' a file (yet I can't remember the last time I used a 1.44Mb floppy!). Hand vs controller. Push/pull vs corner drag to scale. The different interactions required to create the same result is confusing and frustrating. A continuity of interface is severely lacking in the current UI lexicon. What a fascinating moment in time in which we all live...
@theX24968Z
@theX24968Z 11 дней назад
but my question then is, why would you want to create an experience difficult to relate to by abandoning skeuomorphic design? seems like an easy way to confuse a user.
@simply_oat755
@simply_oat755 14 дней назад
4:21 im utterly flabbergasted at the fact he somehow included a segment about a NUCLEAR MELTDOWN into a video about VR interface
@ankitkumar351
@ankitkumar351 13 дней назад
Man you made me google “flabbergasted” 😅
@digitalnomad9985
@digitalnomad9985 11 дней назад
Coolant leak. Chernobyl melted down. Three Mile Island spilled some low level radioactive coolant and shut down.
@andrewhite1178
@andrewhite1178 15 дней назад
Videos like these continually remind me that information and innovation depend not on the smartest person but rather on the person sharing information in the most comprehensive, widespread manner possible. Even looking back at Einstein, his theories weren't unknown in his field, but he was the first person to herd all of these different ideas together to form a cohesive, comprehensive theory. _That_ is the power of effective communication, and it's why I have equal parts fascination and apprehension with video essays like these. They brilliantly weave these different ideas together, but it is ultimately done by someone without a firm background in the subject (i.e., not having a degree in the field they talk about), and that leads to a certain danger I have no idea how to feel about.
@petercottantail7850
@petercottantail7850 13 дней назад
well judging people on intelligence is a trap in itself. common sense and social intelligence of how people actually think are way more valuable than how much you can remember for making something people actually like. i always cringe when is see people say things like read a book or insult their iq cause I just know they themselves aren't very bright despite probably having many degrees or good jobs
@andrewhite1178
@andrewhite1178 13 дней назад
@@petercottantail7850 High intelligence (e.g. higher IQ) has actually been correlated to more charity and donations, as it represents an ability to think beyond yourself. I don't think academic intelligence and social intelligence are these dichotomous forces you are portraying them to be. Sure, there are people who do nothing but stare at books all day and only mindlessly repeat equations and problems, but even looking at Engineering degrees, the most grueling math-focused degree (at the bachelors level) which involves nothing but advanced calculus and a dumbed down English course, yet someone with a degree in Chemical Engineering will still make more money then a Business Major...in _business_. Which, to me, shows that mathematics also cultivates a certain strength of "spirit" and a logical mindset which can be advantageously applied to problem-solving as a whole (and by logical extension, social issues). Not to say that literature-focused majors are worthless, they still have incredible value in communication, but ultimately, mathematics (your bog-standard basis for academic elitist prance about as if they are geniuses) teaches problem-solving, that doesn't make up for a lack of sociality, but it does make what communication you bring to the table all the more valuable. I do agree that social intelligence (i.e. the ability to communicate) is vastly more important then academic intelligence, but the point I was trying to make with Einstein is that: he wasn't great _just_ because of his academic genius, but also his effective social intelligence to herd ideas together to form a comprehensive theory, and academic and social intelligence are intrinsically linked on the foundation of logical thought. I'm pretty passionate about the subject, so feel free to poke holes in my argument. Logical communication can only improve both of our thoughts.
@baronvonschnellenstein2811
@baronvonschnellenstein2811 13 дней назад
You've touched on it, but I think the key with Einstein was his ability to express the core principles of his theories as story-based thought experiments using concepts and items familiar to most "lay" people ... allowing the rest of us to visualise and "get" the basic ideas behind his theories.
@Daynger_Fox
@Daynger_Fox 12 дней назад
If you can explain something complicated simply for someone who has little or no knowledge, and they can understand- you're a very intelligent person
@andrewhite1178
@andrewhite1178 12 дней назад
@@Daynger_Fox "If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein
@MyStickWorld
@MyStickWorld 15 дней назад
I believe in "Time Friction" which is that for every issue, every one thing big or small that a user bumps into outside their control, each collective minute or second of discomfort or frustration is more and more abrasive until the user is left sensitive and raw, wanting less and less to interact with the experience. It's why being able to tailor menus and layouts can help give back a little of that control and give the user more agency in a personalized interface that speaks to them. Nothing's more frustrating to me than having to see whatever Meta wants me to see from the moment the OS UI pops up, or not having shortcut options unique to the user. Boggles the mind that years upon years later they can't even entertain the notion "Hey maybe someone doesn't want some of our widgets they'll never use on the main bar!" or "Maybe letting people make custom folders or changing the UI color to a whole rainbow of choices might help them feel like this is their system." The little things and the lack thereof all accumulate. And little things add to longevity or demise of a thing.
@ThrillSeekerVR
@ThrillSeekerVR 15 дней назад
Okay, ngl I thought i was the only one that thought in this way. thanks for putting a term to it, I like it. I actually wrote a whole video a year or so back about this exact concept. I added up how long it took me to get into VR to do various tasks from beginning to end and then multiplied that by how many times I typically use the systems. hours. days. MONTHS of time friction. It adds up.
@ClokworkGremlin
@ClokworkGremlin 14 дней назад
The worst part in the world is that we *USED TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT!* In the 90s, and even still today in most Linux desktop environments, you can customize your UI into unusability (and I have, then had to dig through the menus to find how to put that critical control back). I think a lot of the issue is that Microsoft and Zuckerbook both have the mentality that their way to do things is the *only* right way, and anyone who disagrees needs their face held to the grindstone until they learn better. It's part of why I hate both companies so much.
@xeridea
@xeridea 14 дней назад
@@ClokworkGremlin Apple has this as a core philosophy, they feel users don't know what they want, and the almighty Apple gods are sent down to tell the users what they want. Windows 11 interface is inferior to W10 IMO, because they are taking useful interface design and burying it behind several layers of menus, or just throwing them away. Simple things like checking network status or changing IP becomes a chore, when it used to be simple. They are trying to dumb down the interface to as little as possible, to the point where anyone who actually uses their computer for work is SOL. Another being that you can't move the taskbar, when for 30 years you could move it to the side or top (I never did, but have known some who do). They make some improvements (such as decent multiple desktop support... which took them ages compared to Linux), but mess up others. At least W11 isn't as big of a steaming pile as Win8 was.
@augustday9483
@augustday9483 11 дней назад
For the past twenty years, every tech giant has been taking customization away from the end user. Windows, RU-vid, PCs, software in general...
@evenfunnierguy
@evenfunnierguy 15 дней назад
This is an excellent video, thank you so much! Take it from someone who has studied design and worked professionally in computer UX design for 20 years in different industries (now also VR UX design). Outside of work, I'm a gamer at heart and have spent somewhere in the 4 digits of hours in VR on different devices. You're speaking directly to my soul.
@rhysbaker2595
@rhysbaker2595 15 дней назад
This entire video was absolutely amazing! Please make more like this, it was so interesting and really opened my eyes to design of not only VR but in every regard. I especially loved how clearly you've managed to explain the problems with VR interfaces but also provided a solution!
@skyzqe
@skyzqe 15 дней назад
A XR UX research PHD (who is also one of the devs worked on the original vive in HTC) once told me, the UI is designed for the investors who only watch demos on flat screens. Hence, the UI are designed to be good looking from outside, instead of good to use for the ones using it. This made so much sense.
@sonictimm
@sonictimm 13 дней назад
The biggest problem in the industry is that the people making this stuff, including most of the developers, don't care to actually use it in VR.
@ZentinS711
@ZentinS711 12 дней назад
Makes Sense! So then! Meta - really gone bad... Other else - really just investors fault - they must to test it themselves - don't be shy, and, then - they have to be shamed otherwise😁
@clouds5
@clouds5 12 дней назад
This not only applies to the vr world. So many things in our society are shaped by the flow of money. Every product real or not has parts that are made like the bad UI you describe that is made to look good for investors. Thats why I've always been hyped for computer software in general. Because the space is not limited (other than processing power and electricity). But ofc my naive mind couldn't imagine the money generation machines that are things like subscriptions and micro transactions...
@GothicSoldier9000
@GothicSoldier9000 11 дней назад
Always the goddamn investors...
@ace-smith
@ace-smith 11 дней назад
investors: the root of all evil
@jenbanim
@jenbanim 15 дней назад
I've spent more time than I'd like to admit struggling with terrible VR UIs and this video perfectly summarizes my biggest complaints * Laser pointers are imprecise, and pulling a trigger makes you miss the thing you're pointing at * There's no coherent menu structure in SteamVR * The first 30 minutes of every game are dedicated to dialing in comfort and locomotion settings * Menus that stick to your face feel invasive I hope that talking about this means consumers and devs alike can start to hone in on what actually makes a good experience
@toututu2993
@toututu2993 15 дней назад
The laser point select thing is far better than touchscreen which has been fully mature for decades
@moortu
@moortu 15 дней назад
"Laser pointers are imprecise, and pulling a trigger makes you miss the thing you're pointing at" one of the reasons that I miss my shots in vr shooters 🙈 It's also a realworld problem though. shooters get taught to gentle squeeze the trigger instead of going ham on the trigger.
@Vynzent
@Vynzent 15 дней назад
@@moortu Yeah I wouldn't apply this to shooting mechanics. You're getting a proper simulation it sounds like lol
@ClokworkGremlin
@ClokworkGremlin 14 дней назад
I think the reason so many games use laser selection is because so many games use laser selection. Humans are notoriously uncreative, it's why adding design constraints is so effective at improving something. So you start your UI design task with a set of limits. The first is "No lasers allowed."
@toututu2993
@toututu2993 14 дней назад
@@moortu I have no experience of pulling the trigger then miss due to change in weight of the aim when I pulled the trigger. Sounds like the complaint from a person who had only tried using the method for only 1 minute of use and never commited beyond it. I think ThrillSeeker is trying so hard to find a flaw that isn't a flaw in the first place. I can found myself missing the pointer click sometime due to shaky arms aiming at small target but it got absolutely nothing to do with trigger on my Quest 2 controllers since is pretty stable while weightless
@cheddle88
@cheddle88 12 дней назад
Superb video. I can see the direction your interest is taking you, and I appreciate you journaling this publicly in the form of these videos.
@Kitchwamon
@Kitchwamon 14 дней назад
I really want to take the moment to appreciate the editing of this visual. Each clip feels like it has purpose and the composition is immaculate. The animations when highlighting the signifiers feedback and affordances were a really nice touch. I can only imagine the amount of work that went into this production. You really out done yourself with this vid.
@Tsathogguah
@Tsathogguah 15 дней назад
21:33 Using Command and Conquer in your video... you are truly a man of taste.
@ThrillSeekerVR
@ThrillSeekerVR 15 дней назад
C&C is one of my first games franchises that I truly loved. unfortunately I was born a little too late to experience it in its prime and had to watch the series fall. Long live Westwood.
@tgdm
@tgdm 15 дней назад
​@@ThrillSeekerVR Hey man, we're always happy to welcome younger fans into our ranks. Just always remember; PEACE THROUGH POWER.
@AnimeSunglasses
@AnimeSunglasses 14 дней назад
​@@tgdm RED ALERT MARCH INTENSIFIES
@eneg_
@eneg_ 13 дней назад
Seeing a 2001 game's icon in VR UI is really something else
@AnimeSunglasses
@AnimeSunglasses 12 дней назад
@@eneg_ why is THIS the comment that makes me feel old?
@thisishowwebingham
@thisishowwebingham 15 дней назад
I love how much this dude loves VR. He's the real life Parzival and I'd happily hand him the keys to the Oasis!
@TheGameChallenger
@TheGameChallenger 12 дней назад
fr, let him cook
@notimportant221
@notimportant221 9 дней назад
Here's a weird thought. Parzival's canonical birth date is two months from now.
@matbrady123456
@matbrady123456 13 дней назад
That was the best video about VR that I've ever seen. I've already thought deeply along these lines, and yet this video opened up my mind even more, spectacularly so. I also appreciate the effort put into the visual explanations. ThrillSeeker, this is your best yet. Congratulations on your new high watermark. Bravo.
@troydorr4867
@troydorr4867 10 дней назад
I really love the passion you have for VR. You talk about VR as a whole, rather than just the games. And you're not biased. You lay it all out, and you just give us the facts. Keep doing thing bro, love the channel.
@quinl_n
@quinl_n 15 дней назад
THIS IS AWESOME THRILL!! This is one of my favorite videos that you've ever made
@ThrillSeekerVR
@ThrillSeekerVR 15 дней назад
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! That means so much.
@firedude339
@firedude339 15 дней назад
THE RETURN OF THRILLLLLLLLLLLLL
@firelion3487
@firelion3487 12 дней назад
Super high quality video. This is a very welcome change from just hopeful news stories and demos, it's really cool to see you seriously discuss an issue that VR as an entire medium is facing.
@themagicengineer5314
@themagicengineer5314 13 дней назад
Always good to see another video from you. And the design and visuals of your videos just keep getting better and better. All the graphics and effects you do to help communicate your points blows me away sometimes
@naninano8813
@naninano8813 15 дней назад
loving this whole VR dev arc. IMO, it is ridiculous that you can't run several 3d limited volume apps side by side on quest. or extending the GUI analogy, switching limited volume app into immersive mode is like clicking on the maximize button in flat OS. Even within a fullscreen app, there should still be a way to interact with other running limited volume apps. Microsoft recently announced volumetric apps api, which should allow streaming of limited volume apps natively from your desktop or azure into quest. this should shake some things up in quest productivity space.
@jtjames79
@jtjames79 15 дней назад
I really think VR UI is about to hit a stride. The middleware just wasn't ready yet, and now it's getting finished. Once the community has the tools, trial and error will make quick work of the problem. I'm actually excited to own a Quest 3, more for the updates than actually using it. Every week it seems to be getting new features. Very exciting! My long-term goal is to build my Quest 3 into a custom 3D printed helmet. I got an e-bike that can do 40 mph, and carries a lot of batteries. I'm planning to run AI locally on the bike using a Nvidia Jetson. I plan on interfacing through the Quest. Also adding a bunch of sensors, 360 cam, etc. So the AI can give me warnings about things I can't see. I got some other features I plan to include like haptic feedback, but due to have only allows me so many words in my comments.
@ninjameep8616
@ninjameep8616 15 дней назад
Microsoft isn't going to do much, they are killing their desktop market as it is They are on the way out and New companies are going to take its place in innovation soon
@moortu
@moortu 15 дней назад
It's software and also a whole new frontier that hasn't existed for too long. Iteratively they figure out what works and what doesn't.
@anakinlowground5515
@anakinlowground5515 14 дней назад
@@ninjameep8616 I highly doubt that Microsoft is going anywhere any time soon. I mean, it is the largest corporation in the world, even bigger than Apple. I just don’t see Microsoft falling any time soon
@TeleportRush
@TeleportRush 14 дней назад
@@anakinlowground5515 I do see them turning a large portion of their community to other places though, kind of like how wizards of the coast screwed around a little too much and then pushed more people to pathfinder and making tons of d&dish spinoffs like critical roll's
@gustavomatias4096
@gustavomatias4096 15 дней назад
I really enjoy these kinds of videos because they carry a lot of information about different subjects that affect ours lives without us knowing
@Kain281
@Kain281 14 дней назад
This feels like the kind of video that a hungover teacher would roll out on the VCR TV... and I absolutely mean that as a compliment! Well structured, very informative, solid documentary. Keep fighting the good fight, Thrill!
@TravelGeeq
@TravelGeeq 14 дней назад
Videos like this are the reason why I follow this channel. You always bring forth the topics and tech that we should all be looking at. And it's not just about VR - I don't think people think about how much VR ties into all other tech from hardware to governance and regulations. Anyhow - I just wanted to say thanks again for another fantastic video and for always fighting the good fight. Cheers amigo ~
@FAQUERETERMAX
@FAQUERETERMAX 15 дней назад
This is an amazing take at design, and it's way more important than people realize. I want to add two things: We want to interact with VR like we do in the real world: anything can be touched, and everything reacts to being touched. Also feedback: if I touch something, I must feel something happened. It needs to be instantaneous. Force feedback would be the best, vibration is the second best, sound is the third best. Visual feedback must be there, but it can't be the only feedback.
@alexturnbackthearmy1907
@alexturnbackthearmy1907 15 дней назад
Which is why VR is not quite here yet - there is not enough feedback. Full feedback would be complicated, big and expensive...but it also would be THE thing that will make VR next step in gaming - full immersion. No compromises (expect being inside bulky machine).
@FAQUERETERMAX
@FAQUERETERMAX 14 дней назад
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 Exactly. Everything needs feedback, even things you can't fully interact with. If I miss a button inside a window and touch the window instead, things still need to happen: my touch needs to vibrate and make a sound, the whole window needs to bounce back when I touch it, and circles need to appear making waves wherever I touched it. Those things might seem trivial to VR designers, but it makes the whole experience so much more interesting and satisfying.
@MaxRamos8
@MaxRamos8 14 дней назад
I've been avoiding vr ever since the Meta quest 3 came about. I'm not trusting Apple or Zuckerberg with my identity AT All. Hopefully a true standalone will come at a sub $600 price cuz of I can't handle the high pitches of the lightbox trackers. Whish valve made one that didn't need to use high frequency tech 😢
@FAQUERETERMAX
@FAQUERETERMAX 13 дней назад
@@MaxRamos8 You can create your own separate Meta account and use Steam VR exclusively with Quest 3. No sensible information sent to the Zuck 😂
@DimosasQuest
@DimosasQuest 15 дней назад
I work in VR, and the UI and how the user interfaces with the sofware is one of the biggest problems with VR. (Besides the nausea and fear of walking into a wall) Our observation is that the biggest problem with UI is lack of tactile feedback, you can push through everything, and are never stopped. You never actually can touch something, and we humans are not used to it. We control everything with touch, and we crave tactile feedback, and VR we have zero, so or brain naturally dislikes it. In my professional opinion UI design is not necessary the direct problem, or a problem that can be solved by standardization or a "better" design. The problem is that for the first time in human live, we are trying to control things without the sense of touch. You are fighting against 150.000 years of human evolution. The problem is most like VR itself, and when that is solved, we can move to the next step. For now, we can only try, and design for a day were we can touch things in VR.
@godofwisdom3141
@godofwisdom3141 15 дней назад
So you think we need either haptic gloves or better yet, a neural interface capable of simulating touch.
@Mamiya645
@Mamiya645 15 дней назад
If not gloves, multi-element haptics in controllers with better torque will make a step forwards. Best combined with new battery tech to tackle the battery issues. Virtual sword clashes and locks with sword of enemy, strong initial impact, keep up vibration during steel onto steel time, strong push on forward elements as contact is relieved in VR. The strength I'd like to see is like direct-drive gaming wheels VS bungee-drive wheels, hefty and serious compared to what we have now. Had a PS2 wheel that made my desktop creak and squeal at its maximum, so powerful it was realistic. Overkill for VR of course.
@DimosasQuest
@DimosasQuest 15 дней назад
@@Mamiya645 Something along those lines. it is a very interesting problem, and one that we may not be able to solve until we can somehow either trick the brain into feeling something, or some other external kit.
@Mamiya645
@Mamiya645 14 дней назад
@@DimosasQuest We are wired differently, that's the big burden that really hurts. I'm immune to VR motion sickness unless framerates go bad (thankful for Sony being serious with letting only proper performing titles through). For another thing, in Skyrim VR I could smell the nature, feel the wind, and I swear to you I could taste the breath of a horse as I walked by one. Childhood summers were in the wild, very much like Skyrim (far north Sweden&Finland) so there are a lot of fond memories around to maybe aid me. Wonder how younger city-raised generations fare in comparison? I should probably be on a Discord server aiding brainstorming about this and engineering immersion (and VR UI/UX)
@MyStellarSpace
@MyStellarSpace 12 дней назад
For real, I remember sucker punching a guy while we were playing "Keep talking and nobody explodes"
@elio610
@elio610 12 дней назад
Banger video glad to see you're still doing what you love after all these years!
@josiahcabral7832
@josiahcabral7832 14 дней назад
I love this video so much. Thank you for taking your time to make this. I will miss the consistent TN videos, but this is far more interesting and fitting for your style of video making thrill!
@GamerX-2000
@GamerX-2000 15 дней назад
11:53 This is really like a picture of a pipe- a picture of a pipe is not a pipe, it’s a picture of a pipe; and a picture of a thing is not the thing itself, it is just a picture.
@pierce2001
@pierce2001 15 дней назад
my uncle worked on concept work for this movie. For his phd in architecture he tried constructing what 3d cyber space would look like.
@TheVirtualRealityShow
@TheVirtualRealityShow 15 дней назад
that's so cool wow
@ThrillSeekerVR
@ThrillSeekerVR 15 дней назад
WHAT!? That's actually awesome.
@Bn_uy
@Bn_uy 15 дней назад
This may sound mean but you have anything that can prove that?
@hudsonreynolds4349
@hudsonreynolds4349 14 дней назад
You are such a great creator. Thank you for boiling down design and UI so well. As an engineering student, this an amazingly succinct way of describing multiple classes I have taken
@alexandretempel9250
@alexandretempel9250 7 дней назад
I made my design graduation thesis on this matter in 2022... Funny enough I found the same concepts you did! I was thrilled seeing this video where you talked about most things I researched, and I tell you, your research was awesome, you found great references and proposed great ideas! The OS being responsible for the initial configuration is an idea I trully hope developers get aboard, it would solve so many problems with standardization and good measure for usability. Thank you so much for this update on the matter, this video is a must for the moment we are on in VR. I just don't understand why I can't save the video in a playlist in youtube ): I would definetly add it to my VR research playlist. Thank you again, and keep up the great work! You got yourself a new subscriber!
@chaosfire321
@chaosfire321 15 дней назад
This kind of deep dive is fucking awesome to see from you Thrill. Please consider more!
@ThrillSeekerVR
@ThrillSeekerVR 15 дней назад
YES! This is exactly the path I want to be taking!
@DaWhisper
@DaWhisper 15 дней назад
​@@ThrillSeekerVR I'm glad you said it. Video-essay type videos are what are find myself watching the most nowadays. You making videos like this along side your news and gameplay videos would make your channel the perfect place for literally anyone interested in VR. And I'm all for it.
@Slydog43UTube
@Slydog43UTube 14 дней назад
Being a programmer for over 40 years and a lover of VR since DK2, this is your best video yet. Thanks so much, great stuff.
@TheMxSFxT
@TheMxSFxT 14 дней назад
As a long time viewer, I gotta say… this is some of your best work THRILL. Kinda gave me V Sauce vibes, but with your unique spin and input on it all. Awesome job.
@redmage777
@redmage777 15 дней назад
I see there being 3 levels of VR: 1.) Cinematic - Using VR to view 2D content on a virtual screen that can be customized to your needs/wants (I.E. watching a movie in VR.) 2.) Stereoscopic - Using VR to see content in 3D. May or may not include tracking or motion controls (Games like Moss do this) 3.) Immersive- Typically what people think of when it comes to VR. First-person with Tracking and motion Controls.
@DataMakesItWork
@DataMakesItWork 15 дней назад
Honestly, as someone who has followed your content for quite some time. I would say this is probably one of the best videos you’ve ever made. It’s incredibly educational while still being entertaining. And especially useful for people who want to start developing in the space as it’s now something that, you can point to as a reference moving forward. Really amazing work. And I look forward to what you come up with next.
@timginter146
@timginter146 12 дней назад
the quality of this video is on a different level! amazing work and so well put together, this feels like watching a documentary!
@Armbreakfire
@Armbreakfire 6 дней назад
Amazing video! I love that so many of your videos are focused on making VR better.
@SheWhoVibes
@SheWhoVibes 15 дней назад
I think this is the best/most important video on what VR is and could be I've seen in a very long time. Most are stuck in a cycle of response/review on what is being done, not commentary and guideposting about what SHOULD be done. I think this is my favorite video you've done... period.
@Atrazeal
@Atrazeal 15 дней назад
Touch screens alone are reason to believe this will be known as the dark ages of technology. The dark age of what was between buttons and whatever comes next. As someone with large hands it feels like I am living in a twilight zone dimension where is designed for people with tiny alien fingers.
@user-kw8kh8dg3h
@user-kw8kh8dg3h 15 дней назад
"Best part is no part"...Something that doesn't need touching at all... Guess we need to wait for a direct Brain-Computer Interface controls instead of buttons and touch screens....
@johnschwalb
@johnschwalb 14 дней назад
The ability to zoom anywhere on a screen for more accurate touch would make so much sense.
@JamesCobalt
@JamesCobalt 14 дней назад
Bro you haven't gotten your Apple Fingertip Pimples installed yet??? So are you using text-to-speech for everything?
@_DeadEnd_
@_DeadEnd_ 14 дней назад
​@@user-kw8kh8dg3h That tech already exists (Neuralink, Blackrock Neurotech, Synchron). I think the idea of having any tech company install something in your head that directly interfaces with your brain is absolute nightmare fuel but to each his own.
@user-kw8kh8dg3h
@user-kw8kh8dg3h 14 дней назад
@@_DeadEnd_ well, yes...but not for usual peeps and not in the proper way...
@jonahbusch1194
@jonahbusch1194 12 дней назад
Ok I only just finished part 2 as I don’t have time to watch the whole thing at the moment (I’ll be back) but this is one your best videos yet if not the best. The creativity you put into something that could just be some generic talking head video is absolutely astounding. The way you edit, write, use visuals, sounds, and music is all so incredible to me. Not to mention the actual analysis of what you’re talking about which is equally fantastic. I genuinely believe you’re one of the most talented creators out there and figured I’d give you some props for it as I think your skill for making videos flies under the radar
@alexh3464
@alexh3464 12 дней назад
I've had these kinds of thoughts around VR game design for so long. You managed to put em in words. Nice one!
@inceptional
@inceptional 15 дней назад
Mr Jobs understood proper skeuomorphic design. And I think VR is where this kind of design would make the most sense of all for the interfaces and menus and such, yet it doesn't get used nearly as much or as well as you'd think. Sadly, it's also become used less and less with each new iPhone iOS update too. :( Also, as cheesy as it sounds, reaching the "It just works" point really is the key too imo. No matter what methods and solutions you ultimately use to make a great interface, if that's how it genuinely seems when people use it, "It just works", you've succeeded as far as I'm concerned. How you get there is the big challenge, but the completion/finish point of your particular interface implementation should be when "It just works" and no sooner ideally.
@aapje
@aapje 15 дней назад
Jobs didn't really understand it, which is why MacOS X became a mess of mixed design language when he came back. The original MacOS design was wonderful. John Siracusa wrote some very extensive articles about it on Arstechnica back in the day.
@inceptional
@inceptional 15 дней назад
@@aapje Skeuomorphic design wasn't really implemented in MacOS from what I recall, just the more standard desktop PC style UI design. I think it was more just iOS that really embraced skeuomorphism and only then in the older iOS builds. I think it actually makes more sense there anyway with the direct touch interface. I also think Jobs fully understood this, hence the differences between the two platforms and operating systems. And in VR it now makes even more sense to get back to embracing skeuomorphic UI design imo.
@tinminator8905
@tinminator8905 15 дней назад
"It just works" is just marketing slogan that doesn't hold up under any scrutiny. I have never used any device that just worked, especially one from apple. You always have to do an hour of setup and then when I try to do something basic like downloading a file from a site, it often doesn't let you do it at all. I am always sad when people fall for mystifying marketing instead of looking what is actually infront of them. The only thing that "just works" is your most basic human behaviours that are pre programmed into you like eating, walking and shitting.
@inceptional
@inceptional 15 дней назад
@@tinminator8905 Not even remotely true imo. For example, as far as I meant and mean it here, my SNES "just works", or more precisely "just worked". Plug it in, pop in a game, turn it on and go. Easy as pie and exactly as I would expect and indeed hope. And my SNES Classic Mini in modern times was basically the same too for all intents and purposes, despite having an additional Home menu to navigate and such. Not because of skeuomorphic UI design, but just good UI design. No complex setup, no accounts to create, no signing up to online servers, no EULAs to agree too, no day one patches, no convoluted UI that takes an age to figure everything out and even then never feels truly fluid and intuitive at any point, no unnecessarily frustrating sticking points to just getting going enjoying the games, etc. However we get there, and all things being relative, if interacting with VR can seem as simple and intuitive as that, I will be he happy to refer to that as "just working". And, yes, the actual term is complete marketing spiel from Apple as per usual, but we don't have to be too pedantic and anal with my use of "It just works" if we get what I was meaning--and I think you did, or least now should.
@noa_1104
@noa_1104 14 дней назад
Dare I say making things have a leather, brushed metal or glossy texture isn’t actually how you make interfaces feel natural? More recent versions of iOS became more gesture based, more tactile and physical and spatial (layering, adjacent screens) even if they look a lot more abstract.
@NK1D
@NK1D 15 дней назад
I saw ThrillSeeker, I tap notif
@Kotkamaa
@Kotkamaa 12 дней назад
Really enjoyed this format! Such storytelling that draws you in, wanting to hear more. I think you are on to something with your vision of what a better OS could look like on a conceptual level. I hope the big companies takes notes! Thanks for this!
@slBrelaz
@slBrelaz 14 дней назад
Something about the thumbnail meant I didn't realise this was a thrillseeker vodeo and I'm mad because I saved the video to watch later instead of watching it immediately. Also this is very well written and exactly right!
@MedkitNibbler
@MedkitNibbler 15 дней назад
This video is a left turn form your normal content and some people wont appreciate it as much as I did but for what its worth i really enjoyed this technical deep dive and I hope that you can take this style and continue with it every now and again because as you said at the end no one really understands this virgin technology we have and I would love to continue to see its development and your path learning more about it through your eyes.
@VideoMazk
@VideoMazk 11 дней назад
@ThrillSeekerVR And thank you for talking about reasonable fixes for the topics you showed us. (Save our chosen settings once and done for everything, for example.)
@Wiserone123
@Wiserone123 15 дней назад
Bravo sir. You understand something very few people do. One of my biggest issues with VR is the way we interface with it. Everyone does it different and awesome in there own way respective way. Take all the best parts and create a standard with hand tracking. I also believe the controllers should have a standard created to always work with a universal type of VR interface. This will also simplify all VR controller designs and help push it forward faster once we have a solid base achieved. I am all about moving the technology forward and your one of the few genuine advocates of growing VR as a platform. Not what's the next best headset. I hope you remain a dominant voice in this community. You put some serious thought and effort into this video. I hope you do more of these.
@wilber1616
@wilber1616 15 дней назад
I think this is the perfect summary of what vr is today. Fighting through systems unequipped for the technology to grasp the moments of awe in between. Great video Thrill
@azazel2796
@azazel2796 14 дней назад
What an amazing video. I currently study cs and really liked that this literally picks up from my courses and then immensely surprised me with your new design concepts / guidelines. I have no idea how much time went into this, but it must have been a lot - and it shows. And then the end... damn I feel you, I really do. Design is such an amazing thing and goes so much further than most people think.
@marqusee
@marqusee 15 дней назад
Love this! I'm trying to build and explore the tools to help with better XR Design! So happy you made this!
@RowanPFC
@RowanPFC 15 дней назад
Welp, mr thrill your gonna die, you criticised Boeing at 4:05
@c016smith52
@c016smith52 11 дней назад
This was a masterclass deep dive on design and human experience in VR! I know you felt the need to go deep and ut was challenging, just wanted to let you know it was great and helpful and exactly the kind of video I also "wish was made" and glad you made it, thanks!
@Geesus1215
@Geesus1215 12 дней назад
Bro, I will put this video in a private playlist, because I need to rewatch this multiple times, this video pushes my creativity.
@danielbaulig
@danielbaulig 15 дней назад
Great video. I’m genuinely impressed by the level and depth of original research you seem to have done for it. I’ve been thinking quite a bit about VR UX recently and I found a lot of interesting ideas and thoughts in this video that fit well into my thought process and model. Great work!
@mikejr7727
@mikejr7727 15 дней назад
Too many menus, not immersive enough. If you want me to use a menu, give me a device with a menu, don't just float it in front of me. If you want to give users an avatar, make us change the clothes ourselves, open a drawer, show the options inside (in a user friendly way). You want us to buy clothes? Have us navigate to a market. Virtual reality doesn't feel like "reality" because the devices and the "lives" the give us are too protected. There's no "leaving the house" to go shopping for more clothes, there's no passing people on a street. I know a lot of these options would be VERY difficult to pull off, especially on standalone headsets like the Quest, Pico, ETC. Though if you want to call it "Virtual Reality" you could at least try to convince us that we're in some type of other reality.
@krismanwaring402
@krismanwaring402 14 дней назад
This is one of the best videos you have made, absolutely excellent, I learned so much about design and what VR should/could be! Be proud of yourself, this is a great video!
@charlottegary5572
@charlottegary5572 9 дней назад
As a VR enthusiast who is also a UX enthusiast, this is my favorite of all the videos that you have ever made. Thank you so much!
@joshuadelaughter7968
@joshuadelaughter7968 15 дней назад
I'm still holding out hope for really good gloves. Ones that aren't bulky and annoying to wear, but have haptic feedback and actually physically keep your fingers from closing any further as you wrap them around a virtual object. Would make a world of difference.
@mtdfs5147
@mtdfs5147 15 дней назад
Already exists if you build it yourself. Look up Lucas tech VR gloves
@levoGAMES
@levoGAMES 15 дней назад
That's what I'm saying. A whole new level of immersion. The solutions we have today are still quite clunky.
@user-kw8kh8dg3h
@user-kw8kh8dg3h 15 дней назад
Give it some time. I wait for something that would allow a human body to spin 360 degrees in all directions...would be perfect for movement. But that would be chunky af...
@drroxgaming888
@drroxgaming888 15 дней назад
The next generation of lucid gloves actually look really good. Lucas is working on cutting the size by more than half. As well as allowing splay tracking and other cool features.
@benmcreynolds8581
@benmcreynolds8581 15 дней назад
I wonder if it would be possible to use specifically woven materials that go thru a layer of the gloves that could be pulled on or tightened down by a fast responsive motor system. Maybe the motor system could be located inside some thick wrist straps? They'd probably need to have their own plugged in power source. At least until we see advancements in our portable battery power abilities. I'm curious if there can be a way to improve the accuracy & efficiency of the gloves input abilities by pairing it with something else? Idk? Like a thin cloth that can be rolled up? Or something else entirely. I really haven't dove into VR tech so apologies if these were dumb ideas. Just was brain storming because I like the idea of advanced gloves. I don't like that most things have zero feedback and janky accuracy.
@matthewjalovick
@matthewjalovick 15 дней назад
Well played with Johnny Mnemonic… I was about to write a snappy comment about The Matrix being from ‘99 😂 good stuff my dude.
@MinibattleLop
@MinibattleLop 13 дней назад
This video is such an insanely eye opening look at UX. Absolutely LOVING this new style of content.
@KryttiKat
@KryttiKat 11 дней назад
I love the detail! Thank you for sharing all you've learned about design in terms of VR! I can't wait to see how VR interfaces evolve and improve with people like you to inspire progress! 🎉
@THEMAN2bcjxnxmd
@THEMAN2bcjxnxmd 15 дней назад
Most philosophical video yet.
@Tommo020788
@Tommo020788 14 дней назад
The most interesting phenomenon I've noticed in VR is that textures on objects appear to be MORE DETAILED compared to when they are viewed on a screen, even when there is not actually any additional detail being displayed. I'm sure many users feel this way, that textures and lighting in VR just look so much more detailed and realistic even though the actual level of detail being displayed is often far less than what is being rendered in games you view on a flat screen. I think this phenomenon is connected to the way our brains "fill in" a lot of what we "see" with our eyes, and when we view graphics on a flat screen, our brains know we are only looking at a flat screen, and it isn't fooled into thinking what we are seeing is real, but when you put on a VR headset, your brain gets fooled into thinking you are seeing real objects with real depth, and it starts "filling in" detail that may not even be there in reality, giving you the illusion that it is far more detailed. Anyone else wonder about this phenomenon?
@exploiting4daysd105
@exploiting4daysd105 День назад
Reminds me of a time I looked at a Vr game on a pc and was like “wow this game looks so bad!” But when I joined the game it was a lot better being immersed in it. Maybe because you can’t directly compare things
@luckysevs2583
@luckysevs2583 12 дней назад
Extremely constructive and important discourse and stunning editing. This video is a jewel.
@enrd12
@enrd12 11 дней назад
This video was amazing. Felt like a documentary! Keep it up👏
@ShallieDragon
@ShallieDragon 15 дней назад
As a User Experience Designer by trade, it warms my heart to see this video. Someone, like you, so steeped in VR domain knowledge, using that knowledge to consider a better experience for everyone. My hope is that more designers will see this video, and come to adopt the Thrillseeker Principles of VR Design. I'm going to share this around.
@DeathTempler
@DeathTempler 15 дней назад
There used to be a Leap Motion Sword Art Online UI demo someone made in Unity. Felt fun to play with. I still like that more than any UI we've ever seen. Anything beats a flat screen with a freaking laser pointer.
@DWal32
@DWal32 15 дней назад
the SAO UI is actually crazy cool and it's mind boggling how few imitations of it there are
@ChiltonWebb
@ChiltonWebb 11 дней назад
This is a fantastic video and I'm going to reference it in my own design video. I have two VR products out now and I spend a LOT Of time tweaking how the user interacts with it. I think one of the best things for the industry right now is to bring these issues up and let everyone bang on them independently. See what people come up with!
@horizonexplorer8163
@horizonexplorer8163 11 дней назад
This is a tremendous introduction for the Design of Everyday Things and you have really well distilled it for the "perspective" of VR. I agree that it is one of the the essential pillars of any design or engineering work and you break down some of the key lessons from that book. I read this as part of my design education and I wish that it was part of more required courses across all design-oriented courses. It really helps designers understand their own biases, specifically qualify what their own sense of intuition and "gut" is, and break down what may be abstractly "good" or bad" into distinct features and characteristics that can be analyzed independently. TLDR: great job highlighting the awesomeness and importance of this book. More specifcally, I think the pyramid of VR OS principles you propose is a great start as well. I have some commentary for each section. Respecting the space of the user is key and I hope that UI designers realize that when working in a virtual space, that they have the freedems afforded by a virtual space and should provide themselves (and the end users) the ability to manipulate the planes, volumes, etc. of their experience fluidly to work for themselves, rather than forcing the user to fit to a rigid experience. This will also lean more into the "invisible" nature of good design as users will need to think less about how they interact with VR systems. This plays though heavily into the principle of the conceptual model, discussed more later. I think your commentary on "hands-first" is good and perhaps a necessary "jump" to prevent designers from accidentally/subconciously constraining themselves to the (relatively) finite affordances of more traditional controllers. Part of me feels that the reason why designers haven't taken these steps as much is due to a lack of hardware/software ability to recognize and discern hand gestures easily. I hope that with the advancement of AI, the forgivingness of image and depth-perception trackers will skyrocket and while also allowing for more complicated, and perhaps even user-specific, gestures and controls (Iron Man is the dream here for me). Standardization is a dream, one we should certainly pursue, but with tempered expectations. In the PC world, apple OSs are extremely user friendly and optimized really well for their intended designs. However, developers dislike having to repackage their software everytime for apples bespoke environments (as evidence by the lack of various software compatibility for apple devices). I also imagine that many corporate, open-source, and small-time developers like the appeal of designing in an environment that is less tightly constrained by outside hosting parties. Having a standard like in apple is great for in-house work for a single family of systems, but if multiple standards arise, I worry it will create a very entrapment-prone market. Yet, at the same time, achieving a global standard across multiple platforms is idealistic (though I do hope for it). Your segment on predictablity of confirmation can be solved entirely by developers and designers through a renewed focus on skeumorphics and feedback. Visial lasers provide great feedback, but I hope designers do not limit themselves to one aspect of feedback. Building on the "hands-first" affordances, perhaps a combination of gestures and visual feedback in the form of highlighting or other HUD-like effects can be used. We've designed current skeumorphics on older systems like save icons being represented as floppy disks. But now that smart devices and touchscreens have been mainstream for a relatively long time, perhaps there are skeumorphic-like gestures that we can import from the 2D world into 3D volumes to facilitate that intuitional understanding of users. While your discussion on the conceptual model is important, from what I remember in the Design of Everyday Things, a conceptual model is actually defined by the users primarily, not designers and developers. Designers can study their existing conceptual models and compare them to those of users in order to reveal biases and otherwise unaparrent misalaignments in what a given feedback communicates or what a given feauture actually affords. VR is still in its wild west phase of development, so average users do not have a consistent conceptual model for how the technology can or should be interacted with. Developers are not standardized in their conceptual models for how VR should be constructed. Apple's environment as you described, seems great (because the conceptual model of the engineers is potentially naturally in-line with the model users have), and they have the opportunity to educate users on its features to build a new standardized conceptual model. This could then be a blueprint for VR workspaces that all users and designers can then build off of for how to access, interact with, and manage new features/affordances added to the space. With synchronized conceptual models between users and designers, then standardization can more easily be adopted. I would also argue that the principles of conceptual models are the foundation, rather than the capstone, of design, and would likely be lower on your pyramid of VR OS principles. But this could be a bit of a chicken-vs-egg argument. :) TLDR: great proposal for developers and designers on how to continue evolving the VR experience. I would argue to start with aligning the conceptual models between users and deisgners first, however, and that then the other principles/layers of the design pyramid will flow more naturally. TTLDR: awesome video, love your content, you inspire me to keep coming back to VR and feed my idealistic dreams for technology and the human experience.
@YTtwigs
@YTtwigs 15 дней назад
FINALLY!! A NEW VIDEO!!
@Neptoid
@Neptoid 15 дней назад
The Largest Problem in VR: The UI
@WingHugs
@WingHugs 14 дней назад
this is a captivating video - it was extremely well written and you presented what you had found in an easy to understand way while inspiring further thought about the concept. you've leveled up so much lately, well done thrill.
@GutoGerbase
@GutoGerbase 14 дней назад
My dude, what a awesome video to watch. Thanks for sharing this. Loved the parallels with Design philosophy
@DeckDive
@DeckDive 15 дней назад
Love you thrill I hope your doing better with health I love your channel
@JiNxLiMe
@JiNxLiMe 15 дней назад
I can't wait for the "almost perfect" VR headset.
@este_marco
@este_marco 14 дней назад
more like perfect vr os
@chrisbritton3840
@chrisbritton3840 14 дней назад
Finally! A breath of fresh air in the VR space from the user experience perspective which is what VR is all about! Can’t wait to see what you end up building…
@benjaminolry5849
@benjaminolry5849 13 дней назад
Love the video! It shows how much time you sunk into this and you nailed the hesitation I feel when I think about getting into VR. All the quirks and obstacles one has to face in comparison to well tuned and evolved 2D interfaces are appearant to a layman just by watching the vr-captures of current user experiences. I am a web developer and I cannot stress enough the importance of good default behaviours and settings. Without the developers and designers actually using the interfaces they create, they cannot find those well working defaults.
@utkangezer
@utkangezer 15 дней назад
"Never to complain unless you have an alternative" as the one lesson instilled by your mother... Damn, I do have the exact same "the lesson" from my mother. I criticize her for everything else she said throughout my life, but that one thing is so correct that I have no words against it.
@Friend-
@Friend- 15 дней назад
I strongly disagree with that advice. Complaining is the first step in *coming up* with an alternative.
@pidgey6830
@pidgey6830 15 дней назад
@@Friend- I agree in general. In order to solve a problem you first need to recognize a problem, and discussing it with others is a good way to find potential solutions. The "Don't complain unless you have an alternative" rule is great for interpersonal relationships where you have to protect egos and soothe wounded prides, but in terms of whole industries or artforms complaints can lead to important advancements.
@diablo.the.cheater
@diablo.the.cheater 15 дней назад
That is not a good advise tho, as a developer of enterprise software the least thing I want is people complaining and offering solutions. Their complaining is valid as they are the masters of the functional aspect, but their solutions are not, they know nothing about what it is reasonable and what is not and when they think of a "solution" they get very invested in their "solution", even if it is either not really a solution or it would take soo many resources to implement that it doesn't make economic sense as the value is lower than the cost. I rather they just complain and explain their problem without a solution so I can come up with a solution to their problems that can be done in a reasonable time. This applies to all kinds of things of life, the skill to critique something and the one to come with solutions are two very different skills almost in every part of life. You do not need to know how to cook to know that the meat is too terse or doesn't taste good, but you do need to know how to cook to come up with a solution. So it is shit advise, it is counterproductive, it either leads you to undercomplaint about things you should be complaining because you do not imagine how to fix them or it leads you to offer uninformed unrequested shitty solutions about things you don't really know about.
@DigitalJedi
@DigitalJedi 15 дней назад
That sounds like the type of thing you say to make somebody shut up and accept something they don't like or that bothers them.
@utkangezer
@utkangezer 13 дней назад
@@DigitalJedi If you do not have an alternative, then you will simply suffer by complaining (= hating your only option). Imagine that you have a dream and there is only one way to reach it, no alternatives, and you don't like that way. Complaining will only make things more bitter than they are, which will then either make your path forward more annoying or even cause you to give up on your dream.
@MadNitr0
@MadNitr0 15 дней назад
from VR news to going BIG BRAIN on UI *slowclap*
@JamesOKeefe-US
@JamesOKeefe-US 13 дней назад
Exceptional video Thrill, Ive been following you for years and this one is a masterpiece. Beautiful and informative! Great job!
@tyvaughnholness1985
@tyvaughnholness1985 14 дней назад
This is one of your best videos yet, fantastic deep dive
@Lillian-yg
@Lillian-yg 15 дней назад
Love you thrill I hope your doing better with health I love your channel.
@CakePrincessCelestia
@CakePrincessCelestia 15 дней назад
Thrill uploads, Instalike!
@rudolfopinewood
@rudolfopinewood 12 дней назад
Thank you ThrillSeeker for you insights. Also a big thanks to all the comments on this video - it shows how many people share their thoughts and together we can work on making the (VR) world a better place. So many good ideas about how to improve the experience. I really had fun watching this video. Keep up with that good work
@robertweekes5783
@robertweekes5783 13 дней назад
It’s awesome there are dedicated VR enthusiasts like yourself that dive deep into the nuts & bolts, discover best practices and share them 😎👍🏼
@Sloppy_McFloppy
@Sloppy_McFloppy 15 дней назад
18:43 ay, dats me!
@ryrypk
@ryrypk 15 дней назад
sloppy mc helpful
@AshleeMckay-tr1ql
@AshleeMckay-tr1ql 15 дней назад
I love how you address this topic with such honesty.
@NatsNadMit
@NatsNadMit 15 дней назад
SILENCE, HARLOTING AUTOMATON!
@j.justin1511
@j.justin1511 9 дней назад
That was a really fantastic video essay, dude. Thank you and well done.
@h.t.fosterchen7989
@h.t.fosterchen7989 15 дней назад
The production value on this video, and you HAND ANIMATED all of it? Like what??? Insane quality!!
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