777 pilot here and and we frequently land on this rwy. Yes, that taxiway is under construction, and yes, there's a big X on that taxiway to indicate it's closed. Also included on the daily notams. Felt bad for the klm crew to have done this mistake but we're all humans. The controller probably saw the plane still inching forward that's why they were told to hold position. The crew must've thought they could help out by clearing the rwy by moving a bit forward to prevent the go arounds of the other landing aircraft but the pavement on the taxiway being constructed is still soft, especially with the multiple rains we've been having the past few days (rainy season in manila). And no, they cannot use reversers because reversing the aircraft using reversers is not allowed by boeing as per the manual. We all weren't there, so all of these are educated guesses (except for some comments that are just plain trolling), just be glad that no one was hurt, especially the construction workers working on the taxiway. I hope that clarifies things 👍
S B Thank you, S B, was a pleasure having read your input. Most importantly, the last few sentences, ref "we were not there", all guesses and conjecture until the report comes out. And for the trolls, well, it is a shame they have to behave in that manner. We can all learn a bit, from people that have first hand experience. ATCer, retired.
"One of the ironies of WARNINGS is that the more experienced and skilled the viewer, the stronger the familiarization effect and the more likely that the warning will be ignored." [www.visualexpert.com]. Since commercial flying is the safest mode of travel, pilots may be caught off guard when things go wrong, which emphasizes the saying: 'familiarity breeds contempt'. Thx for the helpful info and safe travels!
Isn't it the new rapid exit taxiway is between E4 and E5? E4 is fully operational right? If so, KLM didn't turn on E4. I'd guess he assumed the taxiway after E4 was E5 but it was the rapid taxiway under construction.
So rare to read a comment from a fellow aviator that doesn't bash the crew for whatever error may have occurred. Like you said, we are all human and they admitted the error and apologized profusely. In my opinion the exits off runways many times have poor signage. I've had nights landing in low RVR where the tower says to exit "X" taxiway and you cant even read the sign until you are nearly if not fully committed to the exit, and even with a company iPad it sometimes hasn't synced to your exact position after flipping to the taxi chart. They should paint a huge letter on the lead off line. Would help a lot in poor vis or when trying to quickly clear the runway for ATC. The hardest part of flying is taxiing around at unfamiliar airports IMO.
I have a great idea. When you ask ground twice to move 20 meters forward, and the answer both times is NO, HOLD POSITION, maybe you should not be so incredibly stupid that you ask a THIRD TIME.
If a Filipino repeat a phrase in quick succession. It means we're angry AF. I can tell you. She knows she'll miss a date because of the paperworks. And she's sounded like my wife when I don't listen.
This ATC is really good but RPLL also has some really poor controllers. I listen to it often and they seem to have really bad mics lately for some reason and don't emphasize clarity.
I totally know how he feels.... I missed some years ago a turnoff and had to taxi to the the end of a very very long runway. The controller then asked me " Where are you going to sir? " with a deep sigh. That were very long minutes, especially when you see planes going over your head because of a go-around...LOL
Rata 4U what will be your reaction when a fucking B777 suddenly appears infront of you while youre working on a taxiway? Huh? THINK before you click. Please.
@Rata 4U they saw the plane itching forward, she was concerned about the workers ahead, and the pavement wasn't dry yet, if that plane got stuck in the wet pavement that would cause another hours of delay.. you can also hear the pilots saying they will try to move a little ahead so they can vacate the runway, but then again the area is under construction, and the pavement is not hard enough to carry the weight of that plane.. i would not come to a conclusion like you just said buddy..
@@Noble-p @Rata 4U they saw the plane itching forward, she was concerned about the workers ahead, and the pavement wasn't dry yet, if that plane got stuck in the wet pavement that would cause another hours of delay.. you can also hear the pilots saying they will try to move a little ahead so they can vacate the runway, but then again the area is under construction, and the pavement is not hard enough to carry the weight of that plane.. i would not come to a conclusion like you just said buddy..
Before condemning the pilots, I'd like to see the paint and signage in the location. It's quite possible the taxiways are not easily identifiable and this led to the mistake. But it is also very possible, the crew were just having an off day and made a mistake. At least the recognised it right away.
You don’t fly must do you? Construction work has been NOTAM’d, they were given CLEAR taxi instructions, and one assumes they know how to read an airport diagram! Expectation bias 1 flight crew 0.
Super frustrating for everyone I am sure. Such a simple procedure and mistake that costs a lot of time and resources. Having said that he immediately admitted and apologised and everyone makes mistakes.
Kennedy Steve would have had a calm but assertive comment to make, with a twist of humor. Eventually we'd hear him call one of his beloved tugs to get that plane moved.
A very busy airport were many aircraft are in queue for landing and takeoff in crossed runways during rush hours and controllers are on a non-stop chatter. Remember the safety protocols. Good job to them!
Ruben Villanueva The Tenerife KLM pilot wasn’t the best. You can’t be the best if you’re anxious to take off without clearance. It doesn’t matter what track record you may have. I’d prefer not characterizing pilots as best or worst and prefer focussing on safety culture, training, and experience.
@@mikekopecki696 as a Dutchman I agree. Ironically, the other mistake (disasters are always a series of incidents) at Tenerife was the US pilot to take the wrong exit....
Note the male pilot on the radio was the pilot monitoring, not the pilot flying so it wasn’t “him” that turned off although he may have given a direction to do so. We don’t know. I don’t know KLM procedures but assume at the point this happened he was still PM because, if for example he was the captain and had taken control in the rollout and turn off, the other pilot would have been on the radio. So it’s almost certain he wasn’t the one driving at the time of the incident. Another pilot makes the last KLM reply.
Oooh, if I was that pilot I'd be wanting to disguise myself in the terminal out of embarrassment. Glad my office job keeps my work mistakes hidden from public view! :)
There was a 737 that went off the runway in MNL last night (18 August), which caused the whole airport to close for a while. I really hope I get to see a video of yours about the comms before the accident. :)
Whelp... this is the last time I look at the comment section regarding an aviation mishap (that is public at least). ~80% of them are cancer to my eyes.
Armchair experts always act like they would be 100% calm and execute perfect skills in dangerous near death situations. Even in a well managed lower risk one like this the tower control is being criticized, when she was efficient throughout. I'm sure every one of these experts think they could put planes into a holding pattern with separation, tell planes to go around, organised to tow the plane, clear out the workers all as easy as pie at the drop of a hat.
same. Also; It's like 80% of the people commenting hold prejudice against any professional who does not have an American/British accent, and it clearly shows on videos like this.
Stuff like this happens at most busy airports, but at the one I work at, it wouldn't take HOURS to get plane towed to the gate area, maybe AN hour..lol
Been there, done that... lucky when it happened to me, I was in a Cirrus and even though the taxiway was very narrow, I just stepped on one brake and turned the other way, otherwise I would had to taxi all the way to the end of the taxiway, enter the runway (and that would take ages as the airport was VERY busy) and taxi all the way back...
Proves that long range flights are tiring for pilots. Perhaps more specific instructions would have been more clear. I’ve done several overnight flights and tired makes for errors!
To make mistakes is human, so no problems with that. But if the tower tells you to stop you stop! His intentions to clear the runway were good but that doesn't matter. The tower got a reason to stop you at this point, even when you're blocking the runway.
Like the surface of quicksand, I'm sure that the next 20 or 30 meters of new pavement looked smooth enough. Once he had sunk into it a couple of feet, he'd be holding his position longer than expected.
ECHO 5 is near Terminal 1 and it is being under construction that taxiway is not under construction that is used usually for the arrivals of smaller aircrafts
You mean aside from the NOTAM, the huge X on the taxiway, the vehicles and personnel on it, and the clear instruction from the ATC to exit via the taxiway 1km further down the runway, the multiple signs on the ground and beside the runway naming the taxiway, and the airport maps the pilot had on hand? Gwarsh, yes. They really could have made it clearer. Mind you, if Han Solo could mistake a taxiway for runway, I guess anyone could?
@@marvinkitfox3386 You are overstating it. They were instructed to use E5; they weren't told it was "1 km further". They passed E4 and mistakenly turned at the site of the new exit (under construction), thinking it _was_ E5. (The map here is wrong. It doesn't show the construction and shows them exiting at E4.)
Can Uyanık oh yes it didn’t take 6 hours for them to get a tow but the congestion caused several delays that caused a domino effect an all succeeding flights..
Reminds of a few instances we had here at CYVR where some work was being done on the far end of 08R and a few arrivals missed the last exit D3, ended up having to be towed.
The intro text in the video says that this blocked the runway "for several hours". How on Earth did it take that long to clear this? Surely all they need is a tug and a towbar?
This is most likely the event that caused the authorities to construct new hi-speed exits near the hangar parking and in the Terminal 1 area. It’s super convenient nowadays.
I don't think so. This incident happened during construction of the new exit. It was the new (not-completed) exit that they attempted to use. The map in the video is wrong. It shows them attempting to exit at E4. I think they passed E4 and thought the next exit was E5. In fact they turned at the construction site, close to the terminals, as you say, but not yet an exit.
@@paulkennedy8701 Are you sure about that? This was in 2018. Looking at Google Maps satellite view, which claims imagery from 2022, the only taxiways that currently exist are E4 and E5. There is something between the two, which does look like it was supposed to be a high-speed exit, but it looks like that's not complete even today. Unless they never finished it...
@@beeble2003 google map dates are quite often wrong, for eg, i recently googled a worksite i had previously been at where extra lanes had been added to a road, that work happened back in like 2017, and did not show the extra lanes, but it showed a date of 2022.
I wonder if RPLL have this on NOTAM and the KLM just didn’t read them or RPLL completely forgot to put this on NOTAM. It’s an instinct for the KLM crew to use that high speed taxi way. The tower could had also tell KLM to continue roll out.
I realize the pilots were 100% at fault here, but, speaking as an airline pilot, it would be helpful to hear the tower say "continue down the runway and vacate at ECHO-5". Again, the tower was not at fault in their instructions, but it wouldve been helpful in this unusual situation. Our priority as pilots at touchown/rollout is safely stopping the aircraft. I may not have the time to look at a taxi diagram at that very moment.
It's a little more unusual than that. The map here is wrong. It shows them exiting at E4. In fact they attempted to exit at the _new_ exit between E4 and E5 (not shown on the map). So they passed E4, mistook the construction site for an operational exit and thought it was E5.
I have heard and read about the difficulty in reading taxiway name markers so why can't they just put up a big red triangle like they do on highways when work is in progress? The triangle need not be bigger than the ones used there.
Why couldn't they just get a tug, push back onto the runway and then taxi under their own power to echo-5, as originally intended? Surely that would have solved the problem within 15-20 minutes, rather than blocking the runway for several hours?
Oh, and before anyone says it, yes, I do remember the part where they were talking about the paving still being soft, but I also remember the part where there were already construction vehicles there. If it can take the weight of a construction vehicle, why not an aircraft tug?
This could so easily have been avoided with a call from ATC on long final. "KLM807 plan to exit via E5 or later." That would have given them time to consult the charts. Any instruction given when travelling high speed down the runway will lead to errors.
No no and NO! You do not powerback on wing mounted engines! The thrust would push all kinds of debbris forward of the engine, and suck them right back in! Engines are expensive, but hey whatever your paycheck can afford.
E4 R3 and E5 are open twy. The new rapid twy being constructed is somewhere between E5 and E4 / in front of terminal 1. The animation is misleading people.
Can't go in reverse using the thrusters because the engines would go bust in no time, they're ineffective at below 60-90 kts depending on the aircraft. Most especially in this situation too, since the construction workers would get sucked into the engines.
I'm a little confused... Why did it take them hours to send a tug out? I mean... That was an urgent need. Just literally call anyone with a tug and send it out there. Get them out of the way. Should have had the runway opened again in no longer than 15-20 minutes.
A lil bit late, we only have two runways at RPLL. One is a little shorter and can only handle GA, Turboprops and max of A319/20. The rest needs to divert at RPLC or other airports like RPVM.
Tama D tulad dun sa Jetstar na incident na puro paulit ulit lang sa Pilot yun Controller puro NoTaM lang mahalaga sa kanya kaysa tulungan ang eroplano na nagka aberya.
