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A look at the ICM soft start for A/C systems 

grayfurnaceman
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In this one I review and install The ICM 870 16A soft start control. This control is used to ease the starting load on backup generators and solar inverter/battery backup. This video is part of the heating and cooling series of training videos made to accompany my websites: www.graycoolingman.com and www.grayfurnaceman.com to pass on what I have learned in many years of service and repair. If you have suggestions or comments they are welcome.
If you are a homeowner looking to repair your own appliance, understand that the voltages can be lethal, the fuels are highly flammable and high pressures are used. Know your limits.

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4 сен 2023

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Комментарии : 53   
@deanmartin1966
@deanmartin1966 10 месяцев назад
I just put one on my condenser two weeks ago. They do help with the lights dimming. I also have a Generac generator hooked to the house. Good video.
@mr.monitor.
@mr.monitor. 10 месяцев назад
They are a great little unit. Well built and easy to install.
@byronlentz4825
@byronlentz4825 10 месяцев назад
Been wanting to put one on my home unit. We had a power outage over 7 days a few months ago. Our generator wouldn’t handle the AC. So another short outage convinced me to setup a generator for the house. Also going to power the generator with natural gas as well.
@hg2.
@hg2. 10 месяцев назад
Sounds good. I expect to be hearing more about these in the RV community (lots of generators, batteries, and solar).
@dc5duben96
@dc5duben96 Месяц назад
thanks for the explanation, i have found mixed review on a soft starter. seems like its 50/50 ppl recomend and ppl that dont
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity 10 месяцев назад
If you have dimming lights on a 4 or 5 ton, these work great.
@no1but24
@no1but24 6 месяцев назад
It would be nice if there was a on/off switch that you could easily access to turn it on only for generator use only, and off for utility power.
@ryanmalin
@ryanmalin 10 месяцев назад
I bet if you took it apart its just a bunch of super capacitors. That would be pretty simple and cheap. When you inject VFD current/frequencies into electric motors it has a negative side effect, it induces eddy currents into the rotor and those electrical charges have to go somewhere, run on sentence, the charge finds its way to ground through the bearings and its got negative consequences. I don't think this device has the ability to be a VFD due to how much heat they produce and I dont see any heatsyncs. Grayfurnaceman thanks so much for posting. Ive got 20 yrs in the trade and Im finally working on large 2000 ton water chillers and supermarket refrigeration. Well wishes, take care. From Florida
@rj.parker
@rj.parker 10 месяцев назад
It is not supercaps. They limit current based on learning to a minimum required to start. They are not cheap either, generally three hundred or more. Copeland sells one and has for at least ten yesrs.
@christiangonzales5579
@christiangonzales5579 5 дней назад
It’s becoming a necessity for people here in Houston who need to lower the inrush for generator use. Most cannot afford the standbys.
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity 10 месяцев назад
My Fluke clamp on meter are actually sampling the current surge wave a large number of times in the crucial first few cycles of applied AC power, so that the peak value can be found. Aka INRUSH. More than what you found with MAX amps. A 3 ton is typically 70-80A inrush on newer units.
@mr.monitor.
@mr.monitor. 10 месяцев назад
Even cheap clamps have in-rush. You don't need it to see that these work to lesson the startup amperages. You can literally hear the difference when using with the generator.
@WanJae42
@WanJae42 10 месяцев назад
Our outside unit, right outside the bedroom window, will wake the dead when it starts. Once it's running, it's fine. I've put rubber bushings between anything metal that can rattle, which helped a ton, but there's still a mighty crack of noise when it starts. If a soft start would help with that, I'm sold, if for no other reason than so we can sleep through the night.
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
I would expect the soft start to help with noise on startup. GFM
@WanJae42
@WanJae42 10 месяцев назад
Thanks much!
@danielthechskid
@danielthechskid 10 месяцев назад
​@@WanJae42 If your outside unit doesn't have its own 24v transformer I would turn it on with the disconnect pulled so that you can hear just the clunk/clack of the contactor pulling in, they can be quite loud all by themselves and a soft start won't reduce that.
@richlikeg3722
@richlikeg3722 10 месяцев назад
Over current protection, compressor power timeout, capacitor faulty. All of these are the reason why I put one on. It also helps from pulling so much amps it dims lights
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
The light dimming is a good reason, however, The compressor has overcurrent protection that is designed for that particular compressor. I assume power timeout is short cycle protection. That reason would have credence with some piston compressors, but virtually all compressors are scrolls that will start against a head pressure without additional start components. As for the faulty capacitor, I would never, ever consider installing start components on a unit that has a failed capacitor. That's a good way to a broken compressor. GFM
@rhpham2
@rhpham2 10 месяцев назад
@@grayfurnaceman good point. There are some smart soft starters such as the Micro Air which can detect different faults including detection of a failing capacitor
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
The Micro Air is a good example of a starter with all the bells and whistles. It is a better unit for monitoring your system. This assumes the owner is going to monitor it. GFM@@rhpham2
@Eddy63
@Eddy63 10 месяцев назад
Good info G - Man ... Thx
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
Thanks for the support. GFM
@kg4muc
@kg4muc 10 месяцев назад
Those would be ideal for operating on a generator. Save lugging the motor when it fires up but I’m with you the new intron meters used here are too fast to log a load anyway. They don’t seem to miss much and the AMR meters are just around the corner 😢
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity 10 месяцев назад
One of mine is mounted outside. Use foil tape to protect from sunlight. Max amps is not the same as INRUSH amps on a meter.
@rj.parker
@rj.parker 10 месяцев назад
Other purposes include reduced noise starting and much less light dimming. Most of these psc motor softstarts actually learn what level of inrush will start the motor over a period of days. So their effectiveness can get better especially when used on pressure equalizing scrolls. The cost savings of reducing a 4 second inrush is perhaps 1/10th of a penny at 0.14 cents per kwh. Assuming the utilty meter is quick enough to catch it. Unlike industrial and a few large commercial users, residential and most commercial customers are not “demand” rate charged. A high short inrush demand can ratchet up industrial base rates, but residential is fixed rates or time of day rates. Don’t feel bad for industrial, they usually start at half residential rates.
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
I would only argue about the time. 4 seconds is a very long start time. More line 1/2 second at most. GFM
@rj.parker
@rj.parker 10 месяцев назад
@@grayfurnacemanAgree. But 4 seconds made the kwh math stay within a tenth of a penny rather than a hundreth of a cent. Unlikely the meter could register either.
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
Love it.lol GFM@@rj.parker
@StealthNinja4577
@StealthNinja4577 10 месяцев назад
So if I got it this basically smoothes out the start up. Could be useful if you have sensitive electronics and those electrical noise reducing power supplies/ ups. If they keep having to filter out a kick from the ac could be reducing their life.
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
I would not expect reduced electrical noise. The electronics may make noise themselves. GFM
@wired011
@wired011 7 месяцев назад
Do you think it would make a difference in the electrical bill if the electric meter was a demand meter ?
@sidewayz24
@sidewayz24 13 дней назад
Thank you Sir. How do I bypass the Coresense on a armana for a ICM870-16A. I asked the company and they never got back to me. Is it as simple as unplugging it?
@Hunter-rt6cf
@Hunter-rt6cf Месяц назад
I’ve seen some use magnets to mount the soft start. What’s your thoughts on doing so?
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman Месяц назад
I would not. That's why they make screws. GFM
@xzibit8614
@xzibit8614 10 месяцев назад
I wonder how this compares against the micro air soft starter
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
The micro air has more features, but basically works the same. GFM
@Jon-hx7pe
@Jon-hx7pe 10 месяцев назад
perhaps compressor winding designs have improved, but what's the point when they screwed up capacitors and evaporator coils so badly?
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
Capacitor design is just fine. Good capacitors are available. The source is the problem. I have not seen problems with evap coils. GFM
@Jon-hx7pe
@Jon-hx7pe 10 месяцев назад
newer evaps fail and leak all the time, it's so bad there are class action lawsuits against the manufacturers for the problem!@@grayfurnaceman
@michaelpinkston4628
@michaelpinkston4628 8 месяцев назад
Are these the ones that are blowing up, according to all the reviews on Amazon?
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 8 месяцев назад
I have not seen any problems with these units. Could you direct me to the unit you are talking about? GFM
@billnipp2309
@billnipp2309 Месяц назад
I need help!! I decided to try to install one of these myself. I open up the condensing unit panel only to discover there’s no contactor for the compressor or condenser fan. Just a transformer, run capacitor and an electronic board. Does this mean I cant install a soft starter??? Ty.
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman Месяц назад
Your system may have the compressor at the indoor unit. I would look there. GFM
@billnipp2309
@billnipp2309 Месяц назад
@@grayfurnaceman thanks. I thought about that too but haven’t checked yet.
@billnipp2309
@billnipp2309 Месяц назад
@@grayfurnaceman and if that’s true, how would I connect it? Run new wires all the way???
@chuckquinn8026
@chuckquinn8026 10 месяцев назад
Will they work on a 2 stage compressor?
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity
@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity 10 месяцев назад
I have one on my 2Ton 16 SEER two stage American Standard HP. Works great. You set up on 2nd stage for the Micro Air soft start.
@ryanmalin
@ryanmalin 10 месяцев назад
you could install 2 of them
@mr.monitor.
@mr.monitor. 10 месяцев назад
​@ryanmalin, no, you couldn't. That's not how they work.
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
I would not expect that you would need one for second stage. The large amperage draw is with a motor at 0 rpm. The windings are simply a low resistance resistor that will draw power like a resistor. When the motor starts, back EMF raises until the motor reaches rated RPM. When you go to second stage, you already have high back EMF, so the increase is not so great. GFM
@rj.parker
@rj.parker 10 месяцев назад
Yes they work on a scroll two stage. There is only one scroll motor. Sometimes it starts and runs partially unloaded, eg 67% first stage. The loading and unloading of the two stage scroll is done “on the fly” without shutting off the motor between stages. It uses a normally open unloader solenoid to bypass the scroll plates by 33%. When the thermostat wants 100%, y2 pulls in the internal compressor solenoid closing the bypass path. Other than the unloader solenoid, the compressor is a normal capacitor run single speed psc motor.
@Standing_Wolf
@Standing_Wolf 10 месяцев назад
Good luck getting the ICM32. I ordered it for about a month or more. They said I would get it on the 19th of September. They took my money after they took my money. They sent me an email telling me I won't get it till mid-December. I am sure if I call to cancel the order. They will probably return my money in December. Also before I ordered. I wasn't sure of the 16 or 32. So I called. I was not able to get any support. A voice mail would come on and tell me that all support people were not there. Then it would tell me that the mailbox was full. Then would hang up on me. SO BEWARE BEFORE YOU BUY FROM ICM!!!!!!
@grayfurnaceman
@grayfurnaceman 10 месяцев назад
Good point. I generally do not have a supply problem because I buy from distributors, so it is good to hear from someone from the retail trade. GFM
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