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A Nice Quintic | Video Response to  

SyberMath
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‪@blackpenredpen‬ 's video: • My First Quintic Equation
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26 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 63   
@NadiehFan
@NadiehFan Год назад
If ω is a complex cube root of unity then we have ω⁵ + ω⁴ + 1 = ω² + ω + 1 = 0 so it is immediately clear that x⁵ + x⁴ + 1 contains a factor x² + x + 1.
@goldfing5898
@goldfing5898 Год назад
I know this nice trick from another channel. You just add the missing powers x^3, x^2 and x to both sides: x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x + 1 = x^3 + x^2 + x and extract the quadratic term x^2 + x +1 from three groups: x^3(x^2 + x+1) + 1(x^2 + x+1) = x(x^2 + x +1) Then subtract the right side from the left side: (x^3 - x +1)(x^2 + x+1) = 0 And thus we have factorised the quintic polynomial into a cubic and a quadratic one, whose zeros are easier to find. The quadratic x^2 + x +1 = 0 has two complex conjugate solutions: x4,5 = (-1 +- sqrt(3)i)/2 The cubic x^3 - x +1 = 0 can be solved by Cardano's formula: x^3 = x - 1 Write x = u + v: (u + v)^3 = (u + v) - 1 u^3 + 3u^2v + 3uv^2 + v^3 = (u + v) - 1 (u^3 + v^3) + 3uv(u + v) = 1*(u + v) -1 This is solvable by u^3 + v^3 = -1 and 3uv = 1 uv = 1/3 (uv)^3 = 1/27 u^3 * v^3 = 1/27 Since we know the sum and product of u^3 and v^3, we can obtain u^3 and v^3 as the solutions to the quadratic resolvent z^2 + 1z + 1/27 = 0 u^3, v^3 = z1,2 = -1/2 +- sqrt(23/108) = (-9 +- sqrt(69))/18 In the end, u,v = cubrt(z1,2) = 1/6*(cubrt(-108 +- 12sqrt(69))) And we get one real and two further conjugate complex solutions: x1 = u + v (real) x_2,3 = - (u + v)/2 +- (u - v)/2 * sqrt(3)*i A bit complicated to write them down here.
@ShortsOfSyber
@ShortsOfSyber Год назад
Is it @blackpenredpen?
@goldfing5898
@goldfing5898 Год назад
@@ShortsOfSyber Yes, the guy with this strange ball in his hand (is it a microphone)?
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
I think so
@rubensramos6458
@rubensramos6458 Год назад
Using the Lambert-Tsallis Wq function, the real solution is simply -(1/(5Wq(1/5)) = -1.3247 (up to 4 digits) with q = 6 (q is the parameter of the Wq function). This is a special case of the general solution of ax^r +bx^s +c = 0 that can be found in the paper "Solving the Fractional Polynomial ax^r +bx^s +c = 0 Using the Lambert-Tsallis Wq Function" that can be downloaded on Researchgate site.
@newwaveinfantry8362
@newwaveinfantry8362 8 месяцев назад
8:09 - Wait, how the hell did you get this? It should be -1/2 plus minus root(23)/(6root(3)). You can turn root(23)/(6root(3)) into root(69)/18, but the 9 and 8 are an enigma to me. This is just wrong.
@bradwilliams7198
@bradwilliams7198 9 месяцев назад
Shouldn't there be five roots? Are the two complex roots double roots? Not sure why Wolfram Alpha is only listing three.
@YTSparty
@YTSparty Год назад
Spread sheet: solution is X = -1.3247345. No other REAL solutions. Approx is SQRT(7/4).
@bernhardbauer5301
@bernhardbauer5301 Год назад
Thank you. You are the only one who gave a solution. I get: -1.324717957244746
@voltalimwabbit5492
@voltalimwabbit5492 Год назад
At 8.15 : divided by 18 and not 8
@yoav613
@yoav613 Год назад
And also -9 and not 9
@erikroberts8307
@erikroberts8307 Год назад
I've noticed that out of all the math problems that you work on, you haven't done any that deal with taking a square root of a polynomial. Why is that? Believe it or not, they are very easy to solve. For example, try this one: sqrt(x^4 - 4x^3 + 10x^2 -12x + 9) Once you get good at taking the square root of polynomials, then try doing them with trigonometric functions. Eventually, you will be able to solve this dreaded one from Calculus: sqrt((cos x)^2 + 1) It turns out to be an infinite series that is appropriately equal to: (cosx) + (1/2)(secx) - (1/8)(secx)^3 + (1/16)(secx)^5 - (5/128)(secx)^7 + (7/256)(secx)^9 + .... Take care
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
Good idea. It's kind of straightforward though. The solution should be in the form x²+ax+3, right?
@erikroberts8307
@erikroberts8307 Год назад
@SyberMath Yes, but I'm sure that with time, you can make things more complicated using the same procedure or method on your show using logarithms, trigonometric functions, exponentials, radicals, and so on. Even larger (higher order) polynomials that contain even more terms in them are possible to solve. Take care
@allanmarder456
@allanmarder456 Год назад
To solve the cubic I used the "depressed cubic" formula: When a cubic is of the form x^3 +px +q=0 the discriminate is sqrt((q/2)^2 + (p/3)^3). If the discriminate is positive there is only one real solution. Let D be the discriminate. Then the solution is (-q/2 + D }^1/3 + (-q/2 -D)^1/3. So for x^3 - x+1 =0 we have D=sqrt((1/2)^2 + (-1/3)^3) D=sqrt(1/4 - 1/27) = sqrt(23/108)=.4614791 and the solution is (-.5+D)^(1/3) + (-.5-D)^(1/3)= -1.324717956. When I plugged this into the original equation x^5 + x^4 +1 =0 I got -4.0795956 + 3.0795956 + 1 = 0.
@broytingaravsol
@broytingaravsol Год назад
what i've done with x³-x+1=0 is (x+1)³-3(x+1)²+2(x+1)+1=0 but no further outcomes
@techwithlindo
@techwithlindo Год назад
Hi @SyberMath, I would like to ask what drawing software do you use for your videos?
@ShortsOfSyber
@ShortsOfSyber Год назад
Notability
@techwithlindo
@techwithlindo Год назад
@@ShortsOfSyber Thanks
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
@@techwithlindo you’re welcome!
@morteza3268
@morteza3268 Год назад
X⁵+x⁴+1=0 Using unknown coefficients in a solvable form - its relation to the current state - forming 4 equations and having 3 unknowns - solving equations by substituting - and then substituting the obtained values ​​and a simple solution (x³+ax²+bx+1)(x²+cx+1)=0 X^5+(c+a)x⁴+(ac+b+1)x³+(a+bc+1)x²+(b+c)x+1=0 1)c+a=1 2)ac+b+1=0 3)a+bc+1=0 4)b+c=0 a=1-c and b=-c 1-c+c(-c)+1=0 so -c²-c+2=0 C=1 b=-1 a=0 (x³-x+1)(x²+x+1)=0 Easy
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
Nice
@PatKinson
@PatKinson Год назад
l like this subtitution method, if this was a sextic/hextic equation: x^6 + x^5 + 1 = 0 You'll form each cubic expression such as: (x^3+ax^2+bx+1)(x^3+cx^2+dx+1)=0 ?? To find the values of a,b,c,d etc... Thanks, indeed wonderful stuff!!
@moeberry8226
@moeberry8226 Год назад
Another Video from the Master.
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
Thank you, Moe, for the kind words!!! 💖🥰
@moeberry8226
@moeberry8226 Год назад
@@SyberMath no problem.
@fredoonfarokh2965
@fredoonfarokh2965 Год назад
Hi @SyberMath, Thanks for your informative channel. I think there is something amiss about the simplification of "C". I think it should be: (-9 +- sqrt(69))/18.
@simranakter007
@simranakter007 Год назад
Oh yeah
@shinchan3646
@shinchan3646 Год назад
Nice!
@MrGeorge1896
@MrGeorge1896 Год назад
Why x²? Because it works... 😀 OK, but is it obvious to use x² here and not for example 2x² or -x³?
@Chris_387
@Chris_387 Год назад
Solution is the plastic ratio
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
I think that's a little different. The plastic ratio is the solution to x³-x-1=0. I covered that in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tNXmpsjMN_s.html
@Chris_387
@Chris_387 Год назад
@@SyberMath ok I will check it
@AS-ws9pp
@AS-ws9pp 4 месяца назад
Итак, решаем уравнение x^5+x^4+1=0 :) Я решил эту задачу следующим образом: 1. Представим исходное уравнение в виде x^3(x^2+x)=-1. Удачное разложение, потому-что из системы уравнений {x^3=1,(x^2+x)=-1} можно сразу получить два корня исходного уравнения: x1=-0.5-0.866025i и x2=-0.5+0.866025i. Другие комбинации разложений и присваиваемых уравнениям системы значений не работают! 2. Вспоминаем о том, что исходный полином 5-й степени, а значит его можно представить в виде (x-x1)(x-x2)(x-x3)(x-x4)(x-x5),затем подставляем два найденных корня и приравниваем к исходному полиному (т.е. используем мой метод :) из комментариев к другому видео ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SROVlxHUmKQ.html) и получаем (x-(-0.5-0.866025i))(x-(-0.5+0.866025i))(x-x3)(x-x4)(x-x5)=x^5+x^4+1, откуда можно получить систему уравнений для оставшихся корней полинома полинома, связанных с его коэффициентами: {1+x3*x4*x5=x3+x4+x5,1+x4*x5+x3*(x4+x5)=x3+x4+x5,x4+x3*(-1+x4)*(-1+x5)+x5=x4*x5,x3*x4*(-1+x5)=(x3+x4)*x5} Четыре уравнения и три неизвестных! Снова не пугаемся, т.к. с помощью некоторых манипуляций его можно свести к системе двух уравнений с двумя неизвестными! 3. Для этого из последнего уравнения находим x3=(x4*x5)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5), а затем подставляем во все оставшиеся уравнения! Получим {(-x42-x4*x5-x5^2+x4^2*x52)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5)=x4*x5; (-x4-x5+x4*x5+x4^2*x5^2)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5)=(-x4^2-x4*x5+x4^2*x5-x5^2+x4 x5^2)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5); (-x4-x5+x4*x5+x4^2*x5^2)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5)=(-x4^2-x4*x5+x4^2*x5-x5^2+x4*x5^2)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5)} Видно, что два результирующих уравнения получаются одинаковыми! Дальше работаем с системой {(-x4^2-x4*x5-x5^2+x4^2*x5^2)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5)=x4*x5; (-x4-x5+x4*x5+x4^2*x5^2)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5)=(-x4^2-x4*x5+x4^2*x5-x5^2+x4*x5^2)/(-x4-x5+x4*x5)} 4. Из первого уравнения выражаем x4=(x5-x5^2-x5*Sqrt[-3+2 x5+x5^2])/(2*(-1+x5)) и подставляем во второе, которое, после упрощений, будет выглядеть как (1-x5+x5^3)/(-1+x5)=0. Удивительно, но оставшихся корни исходного полинома нам даст решение уравнения 1-x5+x5^3=1-x+x^3=0 5. Это уравнение 3-й степени уже не такое простое и удачное, т.к. оно не раскладывается на удобную систему уравнений, как в пункте 1! Я долго пытался найти к нему подход, но мне это не удавалось, пока я не попробовал подстановку, содержащую тригонометрическую функцию. Сочетание x и x^3 натолкнуло меня на мысль, что с помощью такой подстановки можно будет преобразовать это сочетание во что-то, содержащее синус тройного угла! Я использовал подстановку x=f*sin(t), получив затем уравнение 1-f*Sin[t]+f^3*Sin[t]^3=0, а затем f=2*Sqrt[1/3], получив в итоге -((2*Sin[3*t])/(3*Sqrt[3]))=-1, откуда t= 1/3*(π-ArcSin[(3*Sqrt[3])/2]+2*π*k). Подставляя f и t в подстановку x=f*sin(t) и для k=0,1,2 получим 3 оставшихся корня полинома x3=0.662359+0.56228i, x4=0.662359-0.56228i, x5=-1.32472. Оказывается, что подобные подстановки уже известны для полинома 3-й степени, и были придуманы Виетой и Кардано! Только они использовали ещё одну дополнительную модификацию, которая не особо-то и нужна! И это отлично, потому-что активно пропихиваемые во многих подобных задачах подстановки с логарифмами и экспонентами уже набили оскомину и порядком зае....ли! Таким образом, ответ: x1=-0.5-0.866025i и x2=-0.5+0.866025i, x3=0.662359+0.56228i, x4=0.662359-0.56228i, x5=-1.32472
@AS-ws9pp
@AS-ws9pp 4 месяца назад
предлагаю автору канала придумать альтернативное решение полинома 1-x+x^3=0 и оно должно быть максимально простым :)
@scottleung9587
@scottleung9587 Год назад
Cool - although this doesn't make me like quintics any more than I already do!
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
😲😜
@ChazCharlie1
@ChazCharlie1 Год назад
Root 69 Nice
@artsmith1347
@artsmith1347 Год назад
0:09 "This is a video response to Black pen red pen" In what way was it a video response? This video doesn't refer specifically to anything in his video. Your factors at 4:30 match bprp's at 5.09 in his video. He used the cubic formula on the second factor, you did not. The answer is the same: -1.3247 Maybe this is WolframAlpha's response to the way he expressed the radicals. There are varying opinions about the "best" way to express radicals that are messy in any case. Invoking bprp's name seems to have been clickbait.
@moeberry8226
@moeberry8226 Год назад
Yeah it’s clickbait for a math channel? The people that watch his channel are going to watch his videos regardless if he puts Blackpenredpen or not. The guy has over 110k subs on a math channel for only 2 years of work. That’s work bro.
@artsmith1347
@artsmith1347 Год назад
@@moeberry8226 I can't tell whether you are agreeing with me or not. It seems not, so I assume the upvote on my comment was from someone else. If your reply was sarcasm: in what way did *_you_* find this to be a video *_response_* to brpr's video? Covering the same topic is not necessarily a "video response." Many channels evaluate i^i without mentioning other channels.
@Gabes1321
@Gabes1321 Год назад
Why are you so angry? Obviously his factors will match at 4:30 if it’s the same problem. And he literally said in the video that you could use cubic formula if you wanted but if you didn’t have access to it then do it in the way shown. Do you actually know what a response is? It doesn’t have to refer to anything specifically, it could just be something related to or leading on from another video. Get off the internet dude
@shafin3365
@shafin3365 Год назад
🙃
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
😊
@Static_MK3Focus
@Static_MK3Focus Год назад
Bro just use the rational zero theorem, sure it’s a lot of synthetic division but, goes much quicker
@brentwilson6692
@brentwilson6692 Год назад
There is no rational zero this time.
@BOBPERIO2
@BOBPERIO2 Год назад
Agree. There is no rational zero for this quintic equation.
@Static_MK3Focus
@Static_MK3Focus Год назад
There is 1 real zero💀, it was -1
@BOBPERIO2
@BOBPERIO2 Год назад
For x=-1, x^5+x^4+1 does not equal zero.
@fordtimelord8673
@fordtimelord8673 Год назад
@@Static_MK3Focus Try using -1 as a solution. It may surprise you.
@bernhardbauer5301
@bernhardbauer5301 Год назад
What is the solution? Only a lot of bla bla, but NO solution. I do not like these videos without solution.
@SyberMath
@SyberMath Год назад
4:58 and 9:22
@Gabes1321
@Gabes1321 Год назад
Are you joking? Or just goofy
@bernhardbauer5301
@bernhardbauer5301 Год назад
@@Gabes1321 He ends up with "The qubic has only one real solution". Nice. So what?
@Gabes1321
@Gabes1321 Год назад
@@bernhardbauer5301 are you kidding me? 4:58 and 9:22 he shows the real and the complex solutions respectively.
@bernhardbauer5301
@bernhardbauer5301 Год назад
@@Gabes1321 : He gives some formulas. For the real solution I expected a value which is an element of the real numbers.
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