A RETURN TO V8 ENGINES? Opinions on FOM's Proposed 2030 Regulations 

By the way: For today only there's savings to be had on the F1 store and the Ayrton Senna collection has dropped for the San Marino GP. Use code F120 for 20% off* Link in the description to my affilliate link. I know there's going to be a lot of Senna fans here so there you go- get some savings. Okay maybe there won't be because I pissed them all off at one time or another. Pole was always on the dirty side. This is facts... :P *exclusions apply

It is so weird the obsession with saving fuel on race days. The amount used carting the circus around the globe makes the perceived savings negligible.

I'd personally love to see a more open set of engine regs like the early 90s, such as a set capacity, fuel flow limit, open configuration. The all of the engines will sound different and the budget cap should negate overspending.

It's not really the loudness of the sound that people miss. F1 had turbocharged V6s in the 80s and they sound so much better than the current V6s. The 3.0 litre V10s had an animalistic, banshee wail to them that made them sound awe-inspiring and terrifying at the same time. I remember reading a comment on a V12 F1 video that described the sound of the 3.5 litre V12 as "a woman having an extremely violent orgasm". The Cosworth DFVs sounded like angry bees. The 2.4 litre V8s with the blown diffusers had a snarl to them when they downshifted that basically made them go brrrr. Heck, there have been V8s of multiple displacements over the years such as the 1.5 litre V8s of 1961-1965, the 3 litre Cosworth DFV from 1967-1983, the 3.5 litre V8s from 1989-1994, the 3.0 V8s from 1995-1998 (it simply fell out of favour over the V10) and the 2.4 litre V8s from 2006-2013 (the most entertaining era based on how close the championship battles were during those years). Each of those V8s sounded different from each other and some preferred the V8s of one era over the other.

Aidan wearing a Toronto jersey with a Boston hat is a bold choice

Is 2030 too late anyway? I feel like the conversation will have just moved on ahead of the F1 rulemakers yet again.

F1 needs to part ways with road relevance right about now

I remember when old v10 engines were relevant on road cars. Nothing like the age of v10 18krpm road cars with pneumatic valve and awesome sound. /s

The engine manufacters won't like this one bit , imagine spending all that money on a 2026 engine for it to be gone by 2030 ?

On the chicago news. I believe the people that originally brought up the news said something along the lines of "we re-evaluated our source and have decided to take down this article" so i don't think this Chicago thing is actually happening.

This seriously raises a question; Why go through all the effort of making a new engine formula only to scrap it shortly afterwards?

At the end of the day, if the racing was close, battles up and down the field, unpredictable winners, 3 or 4 teams in contention for titles along with 3 or 4 drivers battling it out all season long, no one would care what the cars looked like, sounded like or how big, small, heavy or light there were

My issue with it being too short from 2026 to 2030 is that the engine rules haven’t changed a huge amount, it’s the Hybrid unit that’s changing mostly. The 26ICEs will be a bit louder and Rev a bit higher, I think to the 15,000RPM as well as not having MGU-H which also Dulls the noise. The big changes are just hybrid if I’m not mistaken, so it’s less of a huge change than normal.

Watch barrichello's onboard pole lap at monza 2004 or raikkonens pole lap at monaco 2005. The noise and awesomeness of that footage is the reason i am an f1 fan today. The cars need to encapsulate the senses

It wasn’t just the sound that made the old cars special, it’s the way they stormed around the circuit like 20 oversteery hornets. The way the drivers pushed them from start to finish on low-grip, bulletproof tires & low fuel was absolutely incredible. As long as I can see that the drivers aren’t holding back to save fuel/tyres & are driving flat-out lap after lap, then that’s the most important thing. I’d much rather watch two small, lightweight, twitchy V10 cars fight for 10th place than 5 V6 cars fight for the lead. They look completely lifeless cause of how much grip they have & how silent they are.

I'd like to see V10s with a hybrid component. Teams and manufacturers should have some freedom with developing battery technology because energy storage is a real world problem that needs solving.

You are spot on!! Speaking of enticing auto manufacturers...then there is GM- Andretti.

They gotta have Turns 8 and 9 through a shopping mall. . . and the back straight over an open bridge. Everyone in black 'n' white livery, wearin' Ray Bans, 'n' smokin' Luckys. . . Murph & the Magictones singin' the anthem. Bring on Chicago!

Outside of F1 there's no such thing as a 1.6L V6. Any road engine less than 2L will be a 4cyl.

I remember being 8 years old at Adelaide seeing the cars flash past me then feeling this warm residue on my face that reaked of kerosene, 3 seconds of ears ringing until doing it all over again meanwhile the crowd smelt of beer and cigarettes I miss that

Hybridization isn't the reason for lack of noise. It's turbocharging. The naturally-aspirated V8 hybrids of 2009-2013 sounded fine, and this is the formula they should return to. If they really care about reducing their carbon footprint, F1 management should schedule races based on geographic location (i.e. starting in the Western hemisphere and working East or vice versa) to minimize pollution from travel.

I want 2030 to be V8s at LEAST. V8s with some of the hybrid tech but make them rev to 18k again with greater fuel flow limit. I grew up with the V8s back in 07/08 and those designed cars were the most beautiful and the racing was decent and I loved refuelling era due to more strategy and drivers could push more. I think f1 needs that formula more. The current tryes and cars are far too sensitive to either tyre temps or closeness to cars

Personally I would like to see a return to shorter, narrower, screaming engine powered cars that weigh less. Even fewer mandated parts would be nice. Give the teams dimensions for the cars and a displacement capacity and let them show up with what they can create. You can even keep the budget caps in place for some sort of parity between teams.

How utterly typical for Liberty. Force a redevelopment of the most complicated engines in motorsport, then say 'oh we'll only use them for 4 years' before they've even been raced. 🙈

Honestly I wish that there would simply be a displacement limit and from there it's no holds bar, rather than keeping everyone to the same number of cylinders, the same amount of turbos, and so forth. IMSA and WEC to a tremendous job with BOP to create as level a playing field as possible (WEC is still working out the kinks on theirs), and there is so much variety in there. The difference is that there are multiple displacements across the spectrum. It would be interesting to see the current regulations bumped up to say 2.0L and allow as much as 10 cylinders or as few as 4 with whatever aspiration that the manufacture wishes in order to build their technology. You can in essence have 6 or 7 ways to solve a given problem, with varying positives and negatives. And with the combination of the cost cap and only being permitted x-amount of engines per year, it could enable more pressure on the development.

id rather have the 1.6 turbos in smaller 2005/2006 sized cars than v10s in the huge boats we have now. I've been to races when they had the 2.4 V8s and to the last 2 british grand prixs and i have to say its nice to go home without the absolute raging headaches i got "back in the day" and not having to wear ear defenders. Even though i prefer the sound and presence of the v8s and v10s, i think smaller more agile cars is possibly the "fix" we need.

Winter in Chicago baby.... For the race

V10 20k rpm engine at the back and an eletric motor on the front axel, up efficiency, faster accel and more control on corners.

No hybrid = lighter cars. Let's see those babies dance around Monaco again.

As a side....Murray Walker could make crap races pretty decent, better commentators today would improve the show a lot!!

I think there should be an open engine formula. Let the manufacturers showcase their own technology, but keeps the current engine formula relevant and most likely the dominant force for the first few years of the new regs. My only stipulation would be a set fuel limit using a single supplier. Fuel limit, not flow limit. To stop it becoming a "best engine" formula there could be a BOP system involving electrical discharge and rev limits. As for aero, the regs in the mid-90s allowed cars to follow really close.

They should run Cart style V8s imo. Doesnt get much better than 850+ hp V8s revving to 14,000 and also running on methanol. No one ever complained about the way they sounded, and running on methanol is pretty good for the environment. You can grow the stuff. Plus, those engines would happily take more boost so they could do F1 power pretty easily

Just for that last argument, DO IT 😂

The lack of noise isn't about the lack of cylinders, it's because the mg uh is trapping all the stuff that makes the noise. Lose the mg uh and they'll sound great again.

YES...Racetracks, NO MORE STREET RACES!!!

As a Chicago resident, a Formula 1 fan, IndyCar fan, and NASCAR fan. I can assure you, we did not want the NASCAR event. The city lost money on it. We do not want a Formula 1 Grand Prix. There is a fabulous FIA Grade 1 purpose built circuit in Indianapolis Formula 1 can go back to.

Yank here. We don't need a fourth race. We didn't need a third race. If we were going to have two, the second should have been rotated through several tracks.

And here I was hoping for new engines with inline-4 hybrids with range extenders

i don't know that it is the best, but i like the WEC and IMSA approach to engines, they give guidelines on power output but let the manufactures design their own engines. some use v6, some v8, and back a number of years ago audi even went diesel. you still can get a dominant car, and that is why they try to have BOP, and some argue that isn't a good system but at least they try. and the talk of boring races because of red bull dominating, how quick we forget we had 7 years of mercedes dominating before that. so you are at 10 years or so of having a single manufacture winning basically every week. and before that you had years of ferrari doing the same thing. for F1 to really allow manufactures to get a good return on investments they should let them design their own engines with tech that they think they can translate back to road cars.

ABOUT FREAKING TIME! RETURN TO THE INDIANAPOLIS MOTOR SPEEDWAY!

Oh god I hope this is true. Started following F1 in 94 and stopped when the v6 vacuum cleaner engines came in. The screaming V8s 10s and 12s added so much emotion and excitement to race weekends.

Another great video, thanks Aiden.

Great video yet again Aidan!

"Formula" meant there was an actual algebraic formula for the cars. For instance, you could chose big engine but the car had to be heavier, or you could chose light car with small engine. Bring back the actual formula, the race series actual roots

Screw a fourth US race, give us a second Canadian race! Also for Context I am from Michigan and I would sooner go to a Canadian Race than any of the tree that currently exists.

The problem is When Formula One became a worldwide commercial phenomenon for most people was in the 90s. You had three ingredients. Screaming cars, sexy cars, and seven world champions over a decade. Yeah, some of the races were boring and parade like. But at the moment it feels like we are in a reality TV show calling itself a race. it would be the equivalent of Coca-Cola changing their mixture to be clear instead of Black and they’re branding to orange instead of red, and it didn’t fizz anymore. Yes people don’t like change, but they also stay around for the things they like, and otherwise they don’t stay around. So the sport needs to decide if it is only interested in the Netflix drive to survive fans or does it actually want to be considered a elite pinnacle car competition?

I was totally with you played the "fewer street circuts" card. Do it!!

9:38 I’ve been saying that this for years, people have always called F1 boring. Especially the past 30 years or so.

Which would you take you can only have one smaller cars or v10 again

awesome video, can't see it happeneing but you never know

I can remember people on the internet in the 2000s complaining about the way the cars sounded, saying that the engine note was too high pitched, and that the cars sounded better in the 90s. People always complain about things on the internet. In 10 years people will be nostalgic over the current cars, even if they do sound like hoovers

Yeah I don't get this whole cost cap thing, when they keep changing things, makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd love nothing more than to hear F1 cars actually sound good. Believe me when I say that. I'm not some old fossil clamoring for the "good old days", I started watching in 2018. I know what the V8s and V10s sounded like. They are amazing. It's great hearing an engine that sounds like it's screaming rather than just casually moaning. There are however multiple reasons why I think this wont go through and why it sounds slightly suspicious. Firstly is the manufacturers. All those manufacturers they just lured in specifically because of their 50/50 ICE and battery power output then in 4 years they're saying "screw this no hybrid system, V8s now". Those manufacturers they just lured in won't be happy. I've heard that part of why Honda isn't in Nascar is because they don't want to build a V8. So why would they want to build a Formula 1 V8? And do you think Audi is going to want to do that? No. I'm sure plenty of those manufacturers who wanted the hybrid system will just say "fuck you" and pull out. So Domenicali will have to be a very smooth talker to keep those manufacturers in the game after throwing 2 separate engine regs at them in a span of 4 years. "Yeah let's lure all these manufacturers in by making the battery power more important than before only to scrap it completely in another 4 years". That doesn't make sense. Secondly is the tracks. With F1 trying to go full Formula E and seemingly trying to replace every permanent circuit with a street track by announcing a new one every 15 seconds, with the cars now being louder and screamier than before with V8s, how long before the NIMBYs and city councils decide enough is enough and say "no more". You could say "duh, what do you think happens at a race track you idiot" and that is a fair argument, but those kinds of people don't think like that. Say F1 rocks up to Vegas with its new screaming V8s. And now nearby businesses are now demanding compensation for broken glass from all the noise. Then pile on a bunch of whining locals and businesses. Is that a headache they want to deal with? Lastly, this all sounds like it could just be FOM trying to get in everyone's good graces again. They've been looked at as the bad guys for slamming the door on Andretti and now they're trying to save face. "Hey everyone! Remember those old V8s? Let's bring those back! See! We're not that bad!". That is admittingly a slightly cynical way of looking at it, but you never know.

You have done a good job! :) Thank you!

...why not V10? God dammit, it's like they WANT to piss me off.

I will compare this weekend in Imola . current breed versus 1993 sample.

I don't really have an opinion on these 2030 regs, but what I find weird is F1 always looking forward to the next set of regulations. The next set will always be the greatest thing ever, except that a year before the regulations are introduced, the next thing is already mentioned and that will fix things x, y, and z. In 2021, we already had discussions about 2026, and now we're already discussing 2030 without even knowing what the 2026 stuff will actually be.

11:16 or whatever cylinder configuration you wanted, I rememeber a try off a w12 that didnt produce power at all

If f1 goes to v8 you are going right toward andretti being competitive almost instantly. The American v8 is unmatched

I remember driving through Toronto during the Toronto Honda Indy race. Well, okay, free practice. I was on the highway above Lakeshore. You're wrong about the sound of IndyCar these days. It's still loud, and it's still shrill and high pitched. Not a 2004 F1 car but yeah...

Absolutely anything to get a foothold in the US market, except for letting Andretti race

2:32 "this is brilliant, but I like this" - Jeremy Clarkson

I enjoyed your informative videos

They already have Formula E, so just keep the current power units as is, add active suspension, lose the street circuits except Monaco, have ten three car teams to race for twenty-six slots, quit having such an obsession about the United States, eliminate Herman Tilke dromes, have the ten current F1 teams have 3 car teams going for twenty-six slots for both F2 and F3 so that everything is under one umbrella. Alas, it is a dream that will never even be considered. One more thing, since the FIA wants the teams to diversify, wouldn't it be great to see a Ferrari Indy Car team, along with the other nine teams, it not only would get some publicity, but it would get Indy Car out of the outhouse and into the penthouse. Seeing someone like Lewis Hamilton racing the Indy 500 or the Daytona 500 would be wild. Again, its just a dream sad to say.

They absolutely MUST ban DRS. I came to watch racing, not leapfrog.

A couple of years ago I found a channel that has been uploading "classic" seasons(?) I ate up from '01 to currently '05 and it has been crack for my nostalgia. Yes, the sound does the job, but I think I'm more drawn to the fact that the races weren't about having to manage degrading tyres/energy/drs. The only good thing F1 has done in the last decade its reliability. Imagine '03 and '04 if Williams and McLaren would'n blown up every other race! Love your stuff! Cheers from Argentina!

Overhauling the chassis regs every four or five years makes a degree of sense, but big drivetrain changes should only happen every two or three sets of chassis regs for cost reasons. If it's too expensive and manufacturers leave we have less of a show. I went to Abu Dhabi 2013 towards the end of the V8 era and needed ear defenders, which the PA system seemed to have been tuned for. My next race was Belgium 2015 sitting in a grandstand on the exit of La Source, and the sound was good there, but that's not where the action happens and the TV coverage wants to follow the action. I would argue that removing the MGU-H will allow the cars to be narrower as they were narrower in 2014 than now.

If the cars get smaller I'm all in. Otherwise I rather have a 4 cylinder turbo engine in a tiny car than a big V8 in a big car - unpopular opinion yes but might lead to better races.

Awesome idea to potentially open up the engine regulations. If they do open up, we would definitely be interested in making F1 engines!

Open up the cylinder configuration. Limit displacement.

Car size & weight is a much bigger deal than the engine sound imo. And we can cry about the RB/Merc dominance all day but I'd absolutely hate seing something like BoP rules being introduced

But sadly some other problems may come to the surface as a lot of race tracks around the world have sound/noice limits because of people/things living close to the race track and are complaning about everything 🙁. I am afraid that louder cars could only race in the middle-east etc.

How about a 'no holds barred', build any engine & gearbox combo, normally aspirated, turbocharged, hybrid, a bit of all, something new. But, you are only allowed £100 million to develop it and £20 million a year to upgrade etc. You could dictate what fuel is to be run, and how much, to promote sustainability and then let the engineers get on with it. V4's, V12's, V2 charging an electric engine, let's see what would happen.

City races means negotiating sound levels with locals. If F1 wants to keep those, quiet engines prevail. No one longs for ear pain. But they do want the cars to sound ‘extra’. So just do that. Reasonably.

I live outside Detroit, you couldn't pay me to go to a GP in Chicago.

I can’t believe there are trying for another stupid street circuit. The USA has some great permanent tracks I can’t see how there not up to standards but a temporary track is

They should stop overregulating things like engine format, why not only engine size, or even better, amount of fuel for the race , and the rest open

Allow teams to use whatever engine they want but bring back refueling and eliminate the cost cap.

4:34 My spooder sense is telling that image is, in fact, NOT Derek Warwick at the 1989 Belgian GP.

I hope we get the 2 stroke 8 cylinder opposed piston engine Pat Simmons proposed like 5 years ago. EDIT: The mgu-h does not use hot exhaust gases, it's directly connected to the turbines shaft that splits the hot and cold parts of the turbo.

A 90 deg. V6 like was used in the 6R4 makes a fantastic noise, due no doubt to it’s slightly offset firing order.

Here is my take on it, the FIA could have the perfect set up for manufacturers, Formula E for those that want to do electric, WEC for hybrids and F1 just pure combustion engines.

V10!!!!! Here WE COME!!!!!

I'd love to see V10s again but barring that in terms of tonal quality something like a turbo VR5 might be the next best thing. An interesting rule for road relevance might be to give engine builders a choice between MGU-H or variable valve timing (which I believe is currently not allowed), but not both.

Great show Aiden and why not a supercharged v10. That would sound awesome 😎

Didn't Seb have a view on this a few years ago?

This regulation could also be a small step towards an even newer future redesign, they could consider many of the following changes: v angle (60, 72, 90), engine layout (i4, i5, i6, ,vr6, v6, v8, v10, v12, w12), forced induction (na, turbo, twin turbo, compound turbo, supercharging, twin charging), valve control & number (vvt, vvl, camless, 4+), engine & piston material (cgi, other new/exotic alloy, steel, forged, cast), compression ratio (any), fuel injector (number, number of holes), spark plug (number or none at all, material), transmisson (cvt, dct). I think there's actually many design changes that could be provided towards the manufacturer to design the engines that they would like, and also engine design evolve constantly (1900s i4 were quite rightly different than 2020s i4).

Hybrid powertrains make perfect sense in endurance racing where they can really strut their stuff and adds an interesting dimension to it. F1 is a spectical and the added drama of a screaming V8/v10/V12 is important to draw people in.

1 liter V10 lets go!!!

1.5L V10 turbo-hybrid with MGU-H and MGU-K, with a fuel flow limit that allows 20K rpm with power peaking at around 19K rpm. That's what I think should happen. The MGU-H is amazing and shouldn't go away.

I watched the "good old days". Tyres screaming is way better to hear than engines screaming. Remember the first season of the hybrids when they were really quiet? Any car getting remotely sideways You could hear. I think FOM tv filters that out a lot these days, which is a shame. It would add to the viewing experience.

I'm for a change back to a louder engine but I'll only see it as a net gain if we have fewer races too.

idea: no restrictions on engine design apart from using oil thrown out by takeaways as fuel

Your last line: "DO IT! " YES! If bringing back loud engines means less street circuits I'm all for it. Tired of those snoozefests.

2030 is two years after Cadillac is to supply engines to Andretti. This move is to shut the door on Cadillac.

Give me back the V12 Monsters !!!!!!!! I want 4 figure Hp figures!!!!! I want the Engine noise to be so loud that they rattle my fillings

You could do EXTREME Championship Racing, but then you'd have people yelling "ECR! ECR! ECR!" at every crash, and that could burn itself out pretty quick...

Hey, Geddy Lee's favorite baseball team!

Mechanics should be allowed onto the podium

Having attended F1 at Silverstone several times, I, for one, don’t miss AT ALL the screaming engines of the past.