A single moment from Melee's greatest grand finals

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a quick breakdown of a moment that i suspect will go heavily overlooked from the amazing set that happened just last weekend. no crazy combos, no technical outplays, just a subtly nuanced timing of a button press that i'd guess a lot of spectators missed.
curious how reception of this one will be -- know that a lot of more experienced players might eye-roll at this one but knowing that my mom watches all my videos figured some more accessible breakdowns are also very important (and for newer players too!!)
experimenting heavily with editing style, know my voice pacing can still use work so will keep iterating on that.
hope your weeks are going well!!
set in question: Mango vs. Zain (Smash Summit 11 Grand Finals): • Zain vs Mang0 - GRAND ...
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Опубликовано:

15 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 274

@ub3rpirate 3 года назад

M2k also mentioned there was 1 frame window on both of their last stock that could have changed things. What a match

@GSEleven 3 года назад

I feel like from the outside looking in, it doesn't sound impressive to people until they've put at least an hour in.

@GSEleven 3 года назад

Then they understand how crazy a single frame is.

@MH-yv2cl 3 года назад

@mew2king

@swank8508 3 года назад

where was this? 1 frame could range from easy to crazy good depending on the situation

@Matthew.Morcos 3 года назад

@@GSEleven If they know what a frame is than of course it sounds impressive. The fact that one 60th of a second changes a match is crazy

@Jackjack-kr1cz 3 года назад

PLEASE ALGORITHM BLESS THIS MAN

@GSEleven 3 года назад

Just reply to other comments and it probably will.

@chanegun 3 года назад

PLEEEASE

@GustoFormula 3 года назад

@@GSEleven okay

@amzfishman1 3 года назад

Doing my part to make the algorithm like it

@Punkqurupeco 3 года назад

I came here from recommended videos, so it has indeed been blessed by the algorithm.

@RhysticStudies 3 года назад

so sick, dude. a perfect vid.

@christopherahrens7110 3 года назад

This seems like the exact sort of video that would appeal to your sensibilities, or at least the sensibilities you project on YT.

@turndownforwalt 3 года назад

I am so happy to see you commenting on Melee videos

@justthat4333 3 года назад

ayyy that's the fuckin guy haha nice

@JaquesZerau 3 года назад

This is the last place I expected to see a Rhystic Studies comment but I'm so glad it's where I found one

@elishmeeli3268 3 года назад

lfg mtg and melee??

@Saxologic 3 года назад

Wow! Amazing analysis, storytelling, and video editing. It’s videos like this that best reveal the beautiful history of competitive Smash. Really, your techniques could be applied to any subject… Gonna take some notes 👀

@tremen151 2 месяца назад

i can’t believe i found a saxologic comment on a smash melee video, wild

@gbombz 3 года назад

It’s a catch 22 where in order to win, you have to mix things up, but mixing things up means you’re not going for the optimal strategy every time. This video perfectly demonstrates that, and why the optimal move isn’t really optimal in a game where adaptation on the fly is what really pushes both players’ abilities further.

@braxinIV 3 года назад

Is an option truly optimal if your opponent knows you’ll always go for it?

@r.i.petika829 3 года назад

@@braxinIV in terms of the potential peak of melee, yes it’s still optimal. If you can theoretically do frame perfect ledge stalls and dashes then it’s optimal.

@yScribblezHD 3 года назад

@@r.i.petika829 I don't think frame perfect ledge stalls are optimal. Zain gain still snipe ledge, and can also just up b into firefox and sdi on stage, then you gave up stage control for nothing. Ledge stall can be good of course, to mix up timing or to grab ledge early to cover high and then refresh to cover low in some capacity, but it's not uncounterable afaik, you just won't get clipped by the up b.

@XiahouYuan111 3 года назад

Except this video says how theres literally an option that beats anything Zain can do which is fire stalling but requires perfect execution. You don't need to mix things up when you can pick the option that beats everything, albeit difficult to do (which isn't an indicator for competitive games and pro players) You missed the point of the video and fit thimgs to your narrative

@r.i.petika829 3 года назад

@@XiahouYuan111 thank you for understanding that lol.

@spoobtubegames 3 года назад

This was one of the sickest things I had ever seen, this grands set was hype through and through. Great video as always, really enjoyed this format.

@Flip-a-dip-dip 3 года назад

Mang0’s edge guarding against Zain was sooo good this set. Most other spacies are afraid to challenge Zain at the ledge (understandable of course). But Mang0 had zero fear and it worked. Fantastic vid btw

@thejswzz 3 года назад

hot take mango needs to learn how to fire stall

@ohmyitsfenrir 3 года назад

@@thejswzz I'm sure he knows how unfortunately that tech is frame perfect in order to stay intangible the whole time and that shit can get tough in top 8's

@ryanzinni6528 3 года назад

@@thejswzz the issue with fire stall is Zain actually tries to up b into it and then sdi toward stage pretty sure. Ibdw has mentioned it multiple times that it's not a great option vs Zain. Do think mango could edge guard better but it's also hard to edge guard marth plus grand finals pressure

@sersmiles1635 3 года назад

m2k made a career of grabbing ledge. Couldn't challenge him there

@lucasblomgren1975 3 года назад

@@ryanzinni6528 you can up-b stall without creating a hitbox. Marth can't do shit against it.

@turndownforwalt 3 года назад

Excellent

@Uutalo 3 года назад

Amazing analysis brother. This was quite literally the best set of melee I’ve ever witnessed. I was actually blessed to watch it live.

@guzel9823 3 года назад

I really thought this was Turndownforwalt, awesome job you're quality is improving so much, keep it up

@burn1ngbunny 3 года назад

This was a fantastic vid. I hope it gets more views. I especially like how you mentioned public opinion being a factor in the mentality of competitors, not something I had thought of before or even see very often.

@julianolavegoya1826 3 года назад

Thanks for recommending this, RU-vid

@IWatchedTheWorldBurn 3 года назад

Fantastic analysis and commentary on such an innocuous micro interaction! Watching all of Summit 11, and especially the grand finals; just felt so different. I've watched competitive melee for nearly 10 years and watching this grand finals set felt like it was my first introduction to the competitive side of the game. As cheesy as it probably sounds, It genuinely felt like I was watching a "fairytale" play out in real time. People will be doing set analysis on that match for years. It's without a doubt going to be remembered as the greatest set in Melee history, at least for some time.

@RTB1400 Год назад

Terrific video essay. Summoning Salt and Smash Documentary levels of storytelling and context sharing.

@thepatriot5000 3 года назад

Videos like this remind me why I love this game so much. Just all the analysis that can be done on a little microsituation that I didn't even notice while watching the set (probably because I was screaming like a fangirl the whole time). Great video

@WesaY07 3 года назад

Quality content and edition. This was so relaxing to watch, I think the way you narrate and the music playing in the background mesh really well.

@RESPRiT 3 года назад

You did an fantastic job taking a concrete situation and using it to expand on a higher-level idea, seriously impressive writing!

@dthedudek 3 года назад

I love this game. You can zoom in on any moment and extrapolate so much. The depth is unreal. Thanks for making these videos :)

@MarMaxGaming 3 года назад

Loved it, man! Nice video and you kept it to the point, all grounded, and great editing. Enjoyed watching.. you properly set the stakes and weight of the choice too, along with the risk.. nice work

@Amalgam8ion 3 года назад

I knew everything u had to say about the small technical aspect of this interaction and still really enjoyed how clean your explanation was. Wonderful vid, good work

@shimmyjimmy8391 3 года назад

I am someone who loves to watch melee but does not understand the technicality of the game. I extremely enjoyed this video. Thank you

@incendiablo 3 года назад

I enjoyed how concrete and focused this video was. One of my favorites from this channel. Looking forward to watching more of your content!

@danmiller7649 3 года назад

I feel like mango and plup both are the only players who have the presence of mind during the middle of a high stakes set to choose an option that the other 99% of players would not have chosen. Mango is easily the least tunnel visioned top player in the game when he's playing well. Awesome video

@razzlepizzazz 3 года назад

So clean, dude. Really good vid.

@deep_cuts2019 3 года назад

Congrats on 1K subscribers Darwin!! Also sick video, even mango's ledge rolls are high risk high reward

@DIRTY-MERLIN 3 года назад

big ol grand daddy pog

@AceIncredible 3 года назад

I love videos like this one man. Just a video talking about one cool aspect of a game we all love and a nuance of a man we all love. So dope

@Jets262 3 года назад

I noticed this moment in tournament too! Great video. One important thing that this video misses though is the role of battlefield. Zain has a smaller window to up-b because he cannot ride the ledge at all, which means mango has a much better idea of when zain /will/ up-b. This crucial detail allows mango to approach this ledge situation with more confidence than he would be able to on other stages.

@dudutsai 3 года назад

Another important thing to note is that in that situation you can often hedge your bet by doing normal getup from ledge, which has similar amount of invincibility. The difference is that if you get clipped by up b, you're either air-dodging or fair/bairing depending on your roll input, where if you do normal getup, you have most of your resources available. The hard read to roll was actually pretty important here because the up b timing would have been hard to cover with normal getup

@Siyth 2 года назад

I think mango mentioned this in his summit 11 recap, if anyone wants to hear more. Great video!

@F0rger513 3 года назад

This interaction caught my attention as well but I have nowhere near the technical context that you have - thank you for breaking this down and explaining exactly why that little ledge stall was so awesome. I knew he'd adjusted to cover the later up B but I was clueless as to the I-frame window

@zumie3285 3 года назад

The way you breakdown everything makes it easy to understand. Outstanding video.

@thematrix3431 3 года назад

I also noticed this exact interaction when I saw it. I was like BRO that is crazy adaptation and a HARD read on the fly because he is absolutely DEAD vs Zain if he gets knocked off ledge with Up-B.

@quantum_leap786 3 года назад

man that was so so great How in the world does this guy only have 2,7k subs, with such quality content

@lames_jahey9734 3 года назад

This was such a great breakdown. I remember this interaction and not thinking much of it, but the perspective you gave really changes everything. Melee is sick.

@UltimateGin 3 года назад

what an instant classic this GF was... nice video, this was defo a turning point in this game and I'm glad you pointed it out.

@PERSONALEEMG 3 года назад

OMG it's Gin in a Melee video!

@UltimateGin 3 года назад

@@PERSONALEEMG i'm a huuuuge melee spectator

@rg975 3 года назад

I cannot believe it’s 2021, during the biggest pandemic of our time, and melee is still being pushed harder than ever nearly 2 decades later. We live in a crazy timeline.

@atiq.r 3 года назад

No offense, your world is small if this is what blows your mind.

@DJAlessandrini 3 года назад

This video was so solid. I'd love to see more videos like this that go into subtle moments that show players brilliance.

@N1C0707 3 года назад

Yo thank you for making videos like this dude. You are really putting in good content that the Melee scene could really use.

@japaroads 3 года назад

Goated video, thanks for the analysis.

@lewisbivona843 3 года назад

I so 100% agree with this video. Mango conditioned Zain with safe ledge roll ups for the entire set earlier on and always let Zain get the ledge. To go for it at that moment and for it to work was just freaking unbelievable and part of what made it such an insane set.

@bm8209 3 года назад

This set really revitalized my love of watching melee sets. Killer vid.

@micahbernard2532 3 года назад

I'd say mang0 is among the rarest competitors of his peers, he is both very technical and adaptive he is also very smart in small windows of time. I'd say him and n0ne are among the most adaptive players out there as n0ne mixes his playstyle up alot between frame perfect plays (MR Tas), risky plays (bond) and a combination most of the time. But as for mang0 I'd have to agree with hbox he really is the melee GOAT.

@linkkicksu 3 года назад

The GOAT will always be the GOAT

@yordvandamme 3 года назад

The set becomes better and better the more I learn about it and I was already convinced it might be the best set of all the Smash games ever

@lerippletoe6893 3 года назад

great video, subscribed. Hope to see more analysis in the future if anything noteworthy enough happens

@louislevesque7952 3 года назад

Insane video. Hoping this and your whole channel blows up.

@Belwaer 3 года назад

Hey man, this is a quality video. I can see you doing really well in the future, keep it up dude.

@YOURROOM47 3 года назад

Awesome video. Glad you felt the same as I did about this WILD grand finals. So much more melee to unfold

@MA-ym8pl 3 года назад

amazing video! subbed and looking forward to more melee content :)

@BumbleBaum 3 года назад

This doubles as a great breakdown of Mango as a player, awesome choice of gameplay

@tubesism 3 года назад

Ok I’m 1min in and I can’t take it. With falcon in this EXACT situation, I ALWAYS refresh the ledge like a madman. I’m really good at it and 99% of the time marth up b’s throug my invincible double jump back to ledge, I get the ledge first, and then I EZ clap him. .5% of the time I mess up the refresh and get hit. The other .5% is when I do 1 too many refreshes and marth times the perfect sweet spot. This method has been insanely consistent for me for YEARS and I can’t understand why others fear to adopt this strategy!

@jrcolonial98 3 года назад

Nice commentary, nice voice. Subscribing, and looking forward to seeing what you can do :)

@smartkaboose3806 3 года назад

This was a great watch, even as someone not in the smash community.

@aidan4031 3 года назад

Extremely well made. You'd make a great tutor/teacher.

@alexmcwilliams1321 3 года назад

good video. love melee content

@williammclaughlin2247 3 года назад

What a great video, I would love to see more like this breaking down these small interactions that I could never appreciate on my own.

@cleardays 3 года назад

Great video Darwin, I'm your biggest fan!!!

@joshoshow6229 2 года назад

Come back Darwin Ding, I need more of your videos

@cilo902 3 года назад

Damn this game is so deep. It’s a shame I’m only just getting into it now. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.. that was awesome.

@Instant_97 3 года назад

“There’s much more melee to be played.”

@djcarlo 3 года назад

nice!

@DarwinDing 3 года назад

honestly a little wild seeing you comment on a smash video -- big fan of your djing tutorials!

@AllstonMelee 3 года назад

what if we all just subbed to darwin at the same time 😳

@grovestreet1520 3 года назад

What if we kissed on Darwin's subscriber list haha jk... ...Unless...?

@Shetthepuck 3 года назад

Hot vid bro

@beepone9152 3 года назад

we should name this the mang0

@3three3three3three 3 года назад

mango is the physical embodiment of melee's muse

@DigitaIJustice 3 года назад

You’re getting a FAT sub for this one.

@Kuroth_ 3 года назад

This exact moment also stuck in my mind, I remember watching him hard call out the late up-b and thinking "This is why this man is the fucking GOAT". Game 10, two stocks down, at 0%, he KNEW the callout. What an intense match to watch. Despite some sloppy play from both sides at different points, this was one of the most amazing grand finals I can ever remember watching.

@mitchellk4891 3 года назад

I think Giannis has the same ability, having no fear of embarrassment is underrated. especially in the 24hr news and all day twitter world

@LambNRice 3 года назад

Great comment. I was thinking exactly the same thing. When the Ben Simmons of the world cower away from looking stupid, Giannis repeatedly puts himself in positions to look stupid for the chance of finding success. It's that high risk high reward approach that is so cool to see.

@WIZA327 3 года назад

There's a reason he's the GOAT. Nobody else has the balls to play like Mang

@BerserkPlaysYT Год назад

Please come back this channel is fire as fuck

@slimmsing 3 года назад

Very nice video, didnt want it to end

@petercross2824 3 года назад

Great video. Thank you for the content.

@emilytheawesome6946 3 года назад

ALGORITHM DO YOUR THING !!!!!!! THIS MAN DESERVES TO GO VIRAL!!!!!

@dennisdunker8764 3 года назад

Main edge guarded Zain better than anyone has ever done it and it def helped him secure the W

@BandLEnterprize 3 года назад

Well put together!

@j.t.molina7223 3 года назад

I was thinking about this the whole set. I can't counter if Marth goes directly to stage bc I'm trash but zain went to ledge every time so I was there thinking: mango should just hold onto the ledge longer everytime before rolling!! Nice video

@timothycorsello2480 2 года назад

Fire edit 🔥🔥🔥. Good shit.

@ssj4922 3 года назад

Now this is a Smash channel that deserves recognition

@chanegun 3 года назад

Your videos are so underrated man. You finna blow up

@BackwardsGod 3 года назад

I kept talking about the game 5 roll from ledge and people didn't know what I was talking about

@jackrangaiah4236 3 года назад

i didnt think about it as deeply my first time watching the set, but i actually remember thinking that that was a huge turning point when i first saw this set. as u mention, this exact interaction happened over and over again throughout the set and zain gets back every time. id been noticing it through out the set, but when mango did this it just hit me how much more experience mango has then zain. that is a HUGE call out. to stay there for just those extra like 5 or so frames is a huge dick move, and is just quintessential mango. to do something like this under this much pressure is so disrespectful to zain and is honestly calling out zains entire playstyle, AND only works because mango knows that zain is going to respect him and expect him to do the safe, optimal thing. mango made that big of a statement, by simply doing nothing for a few frames. this is why melee is the greatest game ever created.

@mattmarlborough3607 3 года назад

Fantastic content

@megahertz23 3 года назад

Fantastic vid and breakdown - very clear to somebody who doesn’t know the minutiae of the interaction like me From a risk reward perspective, this might actually make sense to me statistically. If you’re down 2 stocks, and you’re roughly even players, then if things happen like they do on average, you will lose. You can actually increase your probability of winning by increasing variance, ie doing riskier plays like this. I guess the equivalent of this in other domains would be eg playing a risky gambit against a better player than you in chess, because if you play something solid like French Defense or Queen’s Gambit you’ll get destroyed. Or eg in basketball, I read an interview with Daryl Morey, then GM of the Houston Rockets, that to beat the superstar Warriors with Kevin Durant, they were trying to increase variance (ie bombing lots of 3s)

@xxspeedkills28xx 3 года назад

And that's the Mang0.

@delta-wd4gg 3 года назад

That Leffen callout though 🤣

@MetalMusicMan 3 года назад

Great video man!

@xXsacha9811xX 3 года назад

You definitely got a sub from me man. Great video

@mute_cebu_ 3 года назад

quality content

@lindenskywalker6881 3 года назад

“Melee’s greatest grand finals… so far”

@cyfer115 3 года назад

Let’s GO Darwin 🤩

@pids11 3 года назад

Amazing video.

@PERSONALEEMG 3 года назад

And this is why i think Cody and Leffen can't beat Zain with Fox, yet. Their Fox is very by the book, so if I (Zain) read the book I know what is coming. But Mango's Fox is more canon than glass, and puts in more pressure because of the gambles. In my mind I bet he thinks I'm gonna die anyways might as well just fight. Great video BTW.

@chaz8987 3 года назад

Quality content

@LambNRice 3 года назад

I used to play melee 10+ years ago, but was never remotely good. But this was a really good explanation for a complex part of the game, simplified for the layman.

@MooGoesCow 3 года назад

sick video, melees tight

@treeck059 3 года назад

Unconventional risky shit like this is everywhere in the grand finals btw

@jakezepeda1267 3 года назад

Yeah this video was kinda reaching. Look at something deep enough and even the sound your shit makes hitting the toilet water will bring about an age of enlightenment. Or recognize that Mang0 has been at the top forever and that a slight delay on get-up to cover Zain's late up-b is anything but surprising. (EDIT: I'm dumb and misspelled Mang0 🤦‍♂️)

@Firenmage433 3 года назад

@@jakezepeda1267 I think the content creator did a great job of explaining that Mang0 risked a fresh stock to take zain's 125% first stock. If he messed it up, he would've had no chance to come back. That's the beauty of this moment.