Yes, it was very satisfying, the smoke launchers and firebeams were very well placed, well timed, and made for quite the show. I appreciate your bringing it up, that role is a rather difficult one to fulfill.
@@marcelinio9988 Even with a less catastrophic hit, that still might've taken out a cannon. It was nearly a direct hit onto the top section, and CAT could just repeat the shot a second time.
I'm actually kinda sold on the slower nukes, but only specifically when you're up against a Pinchfist. Since they need to sell off so much of their base, they wind up quite unstable, so it doesn't matter as much that cannons have more consistent damage when every single nuke has a much higher chance of taking out the whole base.
I also think the "Nukes must field before cannon o'clock" isn't quite against Howie+cannon rather than 2x cannon. Howie is also not as consistent and the big splash/low pen means it's easier to defend a first strike without being crippled
That's actually not correct. Pinchfist does not cause any instability - he does not require selling more of the base than any other commander. At least outside of some breakneck, mad-greedy strategies (like selling 100% of your armour early and praying for the opponent not to have a buzzsaw). You can see it here in the video. In that last round, I sold off a couple nodes, but those particular nodes are not load bearing. Dranistian only sold off the top-most 2nd layer of armour. And of course, no amount of supports is going to save you from a howitzer and a cannon falling down and exploding at your main stability structure. Or a double nuke to the main hanging base support. If anything, Pinchfist should actually be more of a soft counter to this strategy, by the virtue of rolling out heavy weapons faster, and putting the nuke player on a tighter clock... heavy weapons which we did indeed manage to get. A couple of other things failed here though, which I'll touch upon in another comment.
@@vykro_eng The legend himself! Thanks so much for the insight, I went and read your other comment and I understand better now. I think this, if anything, sells me on this strat even more, particularly when the team manages to really coordinate the firebeam to protect the nuke from AA. That sucks about the lag, though....
Is it just me, or was this one of the more entertaining set of matches to watch? I honestly didn't know who I was rooting for more. Good games out of everybody.
I think the problem with pure defence builds is that you just can't punch your enemy, at all, which means he'll just punch you even harder and you're dead. Doesn't matter how survivable you are if you cannot realistically deal damage In the second game, however, they went with architect. Rather than mitigating damage and thus defending better, when they get hurt they can use more weapons and economy. And wood, which more or less is the base line of defence (while Armor is usually used to protect the core and internals) so they actually have cheaper defence too. So once the enemy attacked them, said attack enabled cattershot to retaliate due to the quickly built howitzers, of which they actually had two - turning the high damage weapon into a game ending one Maybe I'm just spouting horse shit but I think, while armourdillo is more popular, architect is actually better as the eco defence guy (Also to note, cattershot just had bad luck in the first game having their base ripped apart because the door snipe turned into a wood-equipment penetrating one. In a similar vein the other team had bad luck in the last match and might've won if they didn't have their base torn apart)
@@olegoleg258 It wasnt a doorsnipe, it was a hit on the tiny wood braces which got samaged by a howie iirc 1-2 metal there and fluff lives also All eco tanks I've seen build no anti howie defense and thus die to howie aoe deleting their woodspam
@Oleg Oleg the issue with defence builds is you have given the enemy the initiative. It's not that they can punch you harder - its that their punches are pre-planned, where as you are forced into APM reactive mode with limited ability to plan. Any and all early aggression is their to distract because it gives you time to think if you are offensive
That last game kills my spirit a bit :/ - We've got screwed over by lag with the worst possible timing. You can see that Dranistian had shelves for sandbags in front of his weapons, which he would block a nuke with. A lagspike prevented him from actually placing those sandbags. IIRC we both had some internet problems earlier that day. - Watching this, I feel like part of it too was a horrible target choice on my part. For a long time I was able to one-shot the top base by aiming for the mines. Or delete the mines of the bottom base. Or kill the smoke bomb. - We've slightly underestimated CAT because of their slow, eco-insistent builds and got a bit careless in the process. On the other hand, their nuke + firebeam coordination was top notch.
I was watching this and I wanted them to win but then finding out they secured their Victory through a lagspike just doesn't sit right with me even though it was completely out of anyone's control
The fact that in the first round Cat-tershot kept firing the Howitzer without even trying to take out the AA that shot it down three times in a row was just so frustrating. First time, sure, they got lucky maybe, but the AA needs to be handled, twice, maybe you shouldn't try again before the AA is gone, and when your howitzer shell gets shot down three times in a row...just...grah.
The round also ended on a lucky cannon shot which is a little frustrating as well granted thats why cannons are good is they are the only guns capablenof such lucky shots.
Saying that was just a "lucky cannon shot" is such a disrespect to the situation. The shots were pummeling top base often. Outside of one bad shot each volley forced Cat into react mode. They had a brief moment where they took the fight back to Green only to once again get shelled into reacting and repairing. You can only stay on the defense so long before you crumble.
You have a highly infectious laugh. I've been watching your videos for years and just recently noticed that when I laugh really hard at something these days....I sound like you! I'm emulating/mimicking your laugh and I blame you!
Ok that is a nasty combo, Lazer with the nukes so AA is essentially useless. That and they baited them building AA from the beginning so they had no resources. That is some serious 4D chess.
@@Maxwell_Twist He does, he mentions laser support a few times actually. It's a well documented formula for 2v2s. It comes up a lot in the proper forts tournaments and is quite the good as you say. Now- the choice to delay fire and try to deal with the AA only once everything else was ready was... "a decision"- admittedly a good MG wall costs as much as a cannon and a well placed firebeam nullifies that investment nigh completely- a well placed sniper will make it hard to keep the combo going, a firebeam is a prime target to be door sniped. Furthermore MG rounds aren't stopped 100% by the firebeam- you see it all the time, ignited rounds that have a very short lifetime managing to down nukes despite the firebeam. The forts team has done a phenomenal job maintaining balance in a very complex physics based RTS, which is why you should always stop and ponder considering one strategy or build order an end all be all, because none are truly.
@@rockysmith6105 I mean, while that is true, I was mostly talking about the bait aspect. He almost feels like he does the opposite of that. Also, I rarely see Seep lose to anything on that map and I don't think I've ever seen Armourdillo win, though I probably haven't seen as many matches as you.
the funny thing about the nuke is that it wasn't a "lucky nuke" getting through the base and hitting it deep inside, what happpened is that top guy (dranistian) put too much weight onto the top supported by too little (a howitzer _and_ a canon, plus all the doors), so when a third of that holding up weight gets destroyed (right under the hotspot of the massive amount of doors) it just collapses. maybe i am no pro but it seems like that was a blunder, or simply a neccesary risk to get out the stuff as quickly as possible it's not even the wood right under the structure that collapses, it was double braced and held, but the structure under it, given the swerving due to the explosion and not being cross braced it collapsed. maybe it would have collapsed anyways if it was double braced, but it is far less likely
Thing with nukes is while they overall dish out less DPS on the long run, the burst damage when it lands is dramatic. It's not made to beat someone's economy or health, it's made to collapse the base in one well-aimed dice roll, or make it brittle enough for someone else to break through
@@vykro_eng Yo! Best video I've seen yet on the subject. I modified it a bit and I'm able to get very strong, tall buildings, but it's hard to describe here. I'll put something in the discord later. 😋😋😋
Almost maddening watching cattershot repairing time and time again, while their ability is fully charged, and then activating it after the repairs are completed, and they're rebuilding the wood on the base.
Fluffs teammate in the first match really threw. He opened up the enemy at the bottom twice and he refused to fire on him and rid him of his weapons. Instead pointlessly shooting at the upper player.
Incursus carefully explaining the eco and consistency differences between missiles and cannons, and why in the long-term, cattershot's build is subpar Cattershot: Hehe nuke go brrr
Incursus, thought on maybe advertising a new-bro tournament? Would be great not only to see the difference in gameplay, but also hear the constructive criticism on how they could improve their gameplay (which obviously they could watch the video after the tournament!) Could make for some fun times!
Well...3rd round proved that with a teammate a nuke flying through unhindered because it gets eaten by teammates laser did prove you wrong in that one :D It wasnt just luck that they killed Dranistian. But coordernated mass attack
commentary seemed a little off in this video but it was still very enjoyable. I would very much like to know why howitzer/cannon or plasmabeam/firebeam is more popular than quad cannon. Is pinchfist the only commander that can bring out quad cannon at a reasonable time or does it also work with warthog or eagleeye?
Economy balance - firing the cannon costs metal, multi Canon spam is often not sustainable. Warthog doesn't need to win on sustained dps, it is investing in the increased alpha strike damage
@@bengrogan9710 I like your explanation for the use case of warthog, but aside from that I don't find your argument convincing. To be fair, I haven't seen any forts matches other than the ones Incursus casts/shows but most of them reach the point where economy is built up to sustain a lot of weaponry and also most of them go beyond the exchange of alpha strikes. cannon rounds ignore AA, cannons can't be sniped (mostly), cannons deal good eco damage, cannons have penetrative power... I would assume that I haven't seen enough games yet to form an educated opinion but at this time I just can't figure out why Howitzer/cannon + plasmabeam/firebeam is stronger (and therefore more popular than) quad cannons.
Howitzers simply deal incredible damage, and the shells have a really good immunity to AA, if you maintain map control there simply isn't a good reason for either player to go double cannon when the howitzer is effectively an impervious nuke. Now, this isn't to say your claim has no credit, it does. Quad cannons are incredibly damaging- Howitzers are just better. So much better infact I'm beside myself that neither team tried the eagle eye Bank shot to double fire howitzers even once- that strat is a fun watch, it almost always catches the opponent off guard.
@@prixtront7240 It was simply because howie/cannon combo have roughly the same destructive power than 3-4 cannons. It is also because howie/cannon are cheaper than 3-4 cannons thus more economical. The catch to these strat is they required map control or AA denial to work. firebeam/laser combo on the other hand give player a budget firepower roughly the same of 2 laser beam with reduced cost thus more economical. That is why these strats are popular. Cheap and powerful, can deploy more firepower earlier.
@@nogisonoko5409 Further to this: - For max theoretical fire rate, 3 cannons require significantly more energy production (and more turbines) than a cannon + a howitzer, costing more metal for the turbines themselves, and requiring more space to accomodate them. - Howitzer shot force can be throttled up and down like a mortar. This means it's easier to keep both bases within firing range, even with smallest possible doors (just throttle the power down to arc the shell into the lower base). On the other hand, with cannons, you need to either carefully angle them so that they point at a specific base, or build full-sized doors in order to reach both, which is expensive and makes the weapons highly vulnerable to door snipes. - Further because of the variable shot power, it is possible to build a howitzer such that it is *100% immune to doorsnipes,* or at least very difficult to do so.
@@the_mad_fool givin' the buffs he talked about maybe. But the reputation does speak for itself. Forts inherently is an attack focused game so I still can't see it ever working. (-Someone who doesn't play lol)
@@DoubsGamingyeah defence oriented commanders only work if you’re trading blow for blow. Once you lose weapons and go full turtle you end up wasting both your economy and apm on repairing/rebuilding instead of building and firing weapons. It sucks but every time I see a team use armadillo in the pro league I basically write them off straight away.
@@DoubsGaming I don't play either lmao. But I'm talking about _since_ the buffs. I've watched all these recent vods and I don't think I've seen armordillo win even a single time.
Well, I don't know if you are editing your videos on your own or if you got someone to edit it for you... but I would recommend you to double check the description for the commanders on screen for any typing mistakes because theres quite a few i realised. Just so you know. I dont quite mind... It's still great content and overall those shots collapsing the bases were really impressive. Keep up the good work.
Do players usually fight until the end even when the winner is obvious? I understand wanting to play despite the odds, but when you are in the same situation as Alesio in the first game why don't players concede?
That's gotta suck to know you already lost, but then to have to fight and defend yourself for 20 minutes of slow-kill. This is one of the few games I've ever seen when the losing player(s) don't just give up the moment their chances reach zero. I know people get lucky and comp-backs are a thing... but half the time it's one guy with no weapons rebuilding and rebuilding for 20 minutes until the other team finally gets a kill-shot. It's especially bad with the indirect weapons that have to get an unlikely lucky shot to hit a core or something nearby that will collapse the base and/or explode the core with secondary explosions.
Consequence of them selling off pieces of the base for more economy - not ideal, but if it doesn't compromise the base's structure too much while letting them get heavy weapons out earlier, it's a worthy trade in (until you face a nuke, at least)
its wierd as hell seeing pros constantly float materials ngl like second game top left guy spending hundreds of metal on turbines then sitting capped on E for the entire match
Finally I've found a short vid 😒 . Was going to unsubscribe . your the First person who showed me forts 🤟 older vids was great 23 mins around that they was 👌🤟👍 edit ! This awesome 4 games 🤟 I feel heaps spoilt 👌👌👌
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