As a person who has close to 50K miles on my livewire(s) with multiple cross country runs the bike if properly equiped it can do pretrty much anything. As infraestructure grows things are jsut ogign to get better for smaller battey pack EVs.
In my opinion the price is the biggest con. Most electric motorcycles currently on the market are just too expensive especially when you factor in the compromises you mentioned. I think they are neat but battery technology needs to advance to make these kind of machines more accessible. For now and in the foreseeable future I'll gladly hold onto my ICE bike. I also don't see ICE machines going away anytime soon. I think as time goes on both will coexist.
If your ride more the 800 miles a month it doesn't take as long as you think. Especially if you primarily charge at home. Look at the freedom is everything youtube channel for some analysis. Even if he is off by 25% is still pays out pretty quick. That said you got to be able to front the equivalent of a few years of gas and oil changes.
high cost, severe depreciation, and charging accessibility/speeds are definitely limiting my interest in all electric vehicles right now. If I was doing city only riding and charging was accessible where I need it I'd have more interest but would still need prices to be affordable to even think about adoption.
There are a ton of very valid reasons not to get an electric motorcycle, but my brief experience on the Zero SR/S was a lot like what Spite was describing on the Livewire. Fantastic sportbike, and very, very fun. I still wouldn't buy one, but that doesn't mean I don't thoroughly enjoy riding them.
I have the LiveWire Del Mar, it’s my magic carpet on two wheels, been riding for 30 years and this is the most fun on a bike I ever had. It’s not your only bike like you mention, but it’s sure perfect for me.
I've ridden an E-Bike recently (the Italian Energica Ego), I was blown away by the performances, but still autonomy is a big issue especially if you travel long distances
They did such a good job on these bikes, they’re incredible and look even better! The only problem I have with it is that I can’t afford one which really sucks. It gives me a goal to shoot for though as I’m getting my starter bike here soon and will learn that way, but i want to eventually get one of these.
I’m an avid e-bike rider. Literally use it everyday. It’s made me want an e motorcycle, however not having a proper license nor the money to buy one stops me dead in my tracks. It does seem like my perfect form of transportation.
It's drag & aerodynamics, or more notably a lack thereof, that kills the range, not motor speed. Ryan F9 has a really good video that explains it. Personally, I'd love an electric motorcycle, especially when petrol (gas) is around $2 AUD per litre ($4.85 USD per gallon) for regular on a good day. Price is obviously a big hurdle. I could buy a lot of petrol (gas) with the extra it costs to buy one over an ICE, and rebates for electric motorcycles aren't a thing in Australia. The biggest problem, though, is range. Getting to work & back isn't a problem. That trip is only around 10km (6.2 miles) each way. The problem is on the weekend. If I just want a short local ride, it's a 90 minute 70km (43.5 mile) loop with big changes in elevation, which is doable. But riding the same loop every weekend gets real boring real quick. There are plenty of other great riding roads around Sydney, but most of them are 50-70km (31-43.5 miles) from me just to get to the start of them. It's very easy to have a 400 - 600km (248.5 - 372.8 mile) ride day just to end up back home. I guess I'll have to wait for hydrogen to mature.
Yeah, range is still the issue, unless you have the coin to have multiple bikes in the shed. I'm in the Granite Belt in SE QLD, and heaps of great roads all around, but as you say, unless you want to do the same couple of 70-100km loops every weekend, you need something that you can sit on and do 400-500kms in a day. Plus, my commute is a 250km round trip every day, so it wouldn't work as a commuter for me either. I spent 10 years living near Lithgow and working at Richmond, so my commute then was Bells every day. Never got bored, even after a couple of thousand runs!
@@spokebloke1 I'm planning to run the Bells next weekend with a mate on a couple of Yamaha Scorpio's just for shits & giggles, but he's an hour ride from my place. On an EV I'd have to get to Richmond 1/2 hour early for a top up charge & hope to hell that the Lithgow charger is up & running so I can make it all the way back down the mountain, 'cos there's no charging stations in between. On the Scorpio I reckon I can do most of the ride on a single tank. And in the time saved from not having to recharge I could take a run at Galston Gorge on my way back to St George Shire. Unless they standardize EV motorcycle batteries & make them as easy to exchange as a Swap & Go gas bottle I don't think they have a bright future in Australia.
The LW One felt bulky to me. It's really heavy and they priced for it early adopters. The Del Mar is definitely more competitive with the Zero models in price and range. After the test ride, I was really hoping they have lease/refurbished program, kind of like Apple does - but that might be asking for a little too much in this relic of an industry.
I rode one back in July. I'm an ICE fan and slightly skeptical about electrics, but I went into the test ride with an open mind. I was surprised by how much I did NOT miss shifting or engine sounds. I expected to. But the bike is thoroughly engaging and very interesting. I could see really enjoying one and will probably have one in my garage at some point. I agree with Jake. It couldn't be my only bike. But it would nicely compliment my current stable (Iron Head Sportster 1200 Custom, Ducati Monster 695, Moto Guzzi Griso 1100). I'm very curious if this bike will bring new riders into the sport. The price tag is a bit tough for a new rider, but the bike is so darn easy to ride that it would be a great first. If only they had another more affordable electric below this rung of the ladder. (wink...!)
i mean it seems like it could be possible to just build the same thing but tune it so it is toned down for max range instead of power. only time will tell. a highway gear would be a nice addition. also as batteries get lighter that should help
Transmissions need to happen for this reason. Running at max rev burns the battery... change the gears. There is a china dirtbike out now with a 4 speed.. one hopes that will pick up.
You are no where near max revs at highway speed. At 100 mph sure. Why it has a limiter at 115. On could argue it could be geared higher. But it isn't meant to race. All that torque downlow is a lot of fun. I think that would ruin it. And a transmission would add a lot of cost and failure.@@maguslascivious4980
Digging the metric conversions' thanks Spite. Wow that's like & $34593 Aussie dollars and that's without shipping or dealership costs and you can throw another 800 on for registration fees. Its a cool bike but it's not $36000 worth of cool. Man I could have my dream shovelhead chopper with change left over for that sort of money.
I feel the reason they don't do well with traditional Harley owners - myself included is because it seems to miss the point of why we ride cruisers. They aren't particularly fast, or even particularly convient Compared to other bikes and other modes of transport like cars - its the mechanical feel of the clutch and gears, the sound of the rumble and how it actually makes you feel. It literally makes you smile from the complete sensory overload
Yeah totally and what the livewire really shows me is the HD gets that. The Livewire has a similar feel. It isn't the same but they nailed that it was about feel not just performance or range.
I’m 41. I wouldn’t mind having an electric dual sport. Noise is typically the biggest reason landowners stop letting people ride bikes on their land. Could also be useful for hunting. Not a hater of electric bikes but the price tags are still off putting. I mean zeros ADV looks like a Honda cb500x but it cost like 4 times as much as a cb500x. And for that style bike being able to refuel is important.
I'd love to get an electric bike, and I could easily go buy one of these, but almost none of my riding is either anything like city riding, nor less than 100 miles. I like to just get on the bike and ride all afternoon, usually 50+ miles on the highway and 120 to 150 miles total. I would only be able to make it through the day without finding a remote place to charge maybe 1 in 3 times I went out. And a lot of the places I go are pretty rural and I don't see rapid chargers there.
I can get a Speed Triple RS, which is faster, comfortable and with more range for how thirsty it is, for less money new. That's what makes electric bikes unappealing.
We'll look back decades from now and wish that they still made ICE motorcycles.... I'm ok with holding out as long as possible, for as long as gas prices don't get to completely unaffordable absurd levels
Awesome video! I have a part one review on my channel about the HD branded LiveWire. I am all electric with a Tesla and a LiveWire and it’s been an interesting experience, but I have no regrets.
I would ride one a whim. But I’ve never own one, Electric technology just isn’t here. If you own a Tesla, you now realize how expensive it is to charge one. The limited range and long charge times at the house make it a hard no.
Harley Davidson has really let down the American Motorcyclist by not competing with other styles of bikes. They could've been so great, and that's the reason I've never bought one. My Dad always asked me why I don't buy an American bike, my answer is always the same. If Harley would make a VMax competitor I would, but the closes they came was a VRod and its just a joke compared to the VMax. I may not be able to pass a gas station, but my ass thanks me!
Matt Laidlaw was going to rìde a LiveWire to Sturgis but then chickened out. That a Harley dealer doesn't have enough faith in LiveWire to go the distance on one should tell you something. 😅
@@otaupdate3151 Maybe so. But it would have been truly epic if Matt had rode LiveWire from LA to Sturgis with his pals on gas bikes. I'm hugely disappointed that he didn't. There was no explanation either. From that I assume that Matt knew it wouldn't work to mix them up on a cross country trip. Matt is an honest guy. Maybe he'll explain it yet. OTOH, Harley-Davidson, Inc. may not like the explanation.
No thanks that’s a hard pass. I didn’t like the numb feeling it gives compared to a ice bike and the range sucks. I have a 70 mile round trip all highway for work. So that’s just enough to get there and back if I don’t play with it and what fun would that be ? I’ll stick to my 08 cbr.
Personally I wouldn't risk it. If you're going 55 miles one way, and the estimated range is 111 at full charge but drops significantly less once riding, more likely than not you're going to end up getting stranded like 10 miles from home after work, unless you charged at work, which isn't typically likely
ECO mode isn't actually the best. It goes something like this. At 80 about 80. At 50 close to 130. Then adjust for acceleration. Yes with a 110 plug /l1/l2 charging you could go as fast as you wanted with 8 hours of charging. I would easily do that in the cycle with 30% freeway travel.
Some of the new electric concept cars have a manual box. It is faked but half thefun of a bike is clutch control and gears. My ideal electric bike 150 mile range of spirited riding, same weight as ice, gears n a clutch oh and it must sound like a tie fighter!
Modern EV cars 300 miles real life range, 18 minutes to recharge 80% battery. Kia even gives 7 years of warranty. For 20k i want the same in EV motorcycles. EV bikes 100ish real life range, 35min to hours to recharge, not good for for 20 to 30k. A BYD Seal or Volvo EX-30 cost 30k, and the Volvo does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds and does hundreds of miles range.
A true American Sportbike You just triggered dafuq out of all the Buell fanbois... me... you triggered dafuq out of me... we've had a true American Sportbike for years dammit
When it comes to any electric vehicle, I'll pass... Until there are charging stations that are as omnipresent and as fast as a gas station, there is no incentive for me to give up my "rides". I live in the boonies, my road trips are usually 300 or 400 miles long (sometimes one way) I'll keep my bike and my truck as is and be happy.
How much range do you get on this if your constantly giving it the beans? I bet less than 100 miles 😂 electric bikes are ass. Unless all you do is ride in the city
People talking resale on the cycle and comparing to EV autos. What's the resale value on a 200k mile Ferrari? It's garbage. When you look at a Lucid, the performance and the expected battery life that's what you're looking at. If you're talking Prius, then you can DIY a full battery replacement for like $2500 including shipping both ways? ICE is doomed. It's not IF it's WHEN. The only question is how long. If you don't see that you're just an old dude on a horse explaining how the automobile will NEVER catch on.
You think the computers in the current HD's will fair any better? And I bet someone will take a livewire. Replace the power pack with something smaller and lighter and end up with a crazy fun old bike.
awful heavy for a sport bike. I'll take a Buell, even with the new owner stretching Eriks good name. Wouldn't it be nice if harley was still partnered with Buell and this thing had all the Buell touches that have always helped harley along the way. Call it a sport touring bike and we can agree lol. Someone needs to swap an old XB fairing on to one LOL.
260kg is not that bad. My 1996 Kawasaki Zephyr 1100 weighs 264kg and makes 93hp. Excellent bike. My friend has a Harley Davidson Rocker with 1.6l V2 that weighs 350kg and makes only 73hp. He loves it. So 260kg for an electric isn't half bad.
Too expensive. Always will be. Relegated and dedicated to their dealership maintenance because there won’t be anyone else that can. Horrible mileage per charge. No thanks.
@@spartanx169xor even, will the replacement battery exist when I need it? With the tech evolving the way it is, there is no business case for continuing to support 5-7 year old e-bike batteries.
Kudos to you on your willingness to give it a ride and be honest in your opinion, good and bad. People like what they know, and e-bikes are new. The FUD is very strong as well. They repeat all sorts of stories they heard somewhere from someone. Those are huge hurdles to overcome. But your review is a good effort at opening the possibility for those willing to give it a try. Great job! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Check out the Insta360 X3 Camera! store.insta360.com/product/x3?insrc=INR04CE QUICK CORRECTIONS: 1. Prices listed are USD converted to local currency, not actual list prices. 2. Zeitz is no longer CEO of Livewire as of June it's Karim Donnez now. 3. I guess I was wrong about highway speed as it relates to range. Thanks Fortnine... /s
1: The technology is amazing. I will not deny my fascination with it. 2: The range sucks. That's 80-something miles you got on the batteries when they're new and in their absolute best condition. Most people will not have more than one motorcycle, and that alone will be turned completely off by the limited range. Now, consider not-always-optimal charging practices, and the batteries will develop charge memory a little faster. You're talking, what, 80% range at three years? 50% range after five years? Consider people with old power tools, a drill which needs charged after ten minutes of use; or old cell phones which are unplugged at 100%, and after two hours of pocket time and very limited use, they're already below 80% battery. Compare that to a 20-year-old ICE bike. Yes, it won't be as efficient as it was when it was new. But after twenty years, it will get close to the same power and range as the original -- appreciably close. The batteries in an electric motorcycle will need to be replaced, most likely, for it to even function. At what cost? Probably more than an ICE motorcycle the same age would even cost. 3: There is no such thing as clean cobalt; all of it uses child and slave labor. Yes, there are efforts to improve that, and it has been improving for the massive strip mines for lithium, though we're not there yet for ethical (to humans) practices across the board, but there's no such thing as clean cobalt, in that same sense. The carbon offset of mining these minerals is also years off, if you ride constantly, and it starts all over when you have to replace the batteries -- again, at a significant cost. 4: If someone wants a bike they can take to the track, an electric motorcycle ain't it. It's easy to wash away the special coolant, and to extinguish a gasoline fire, should one occur. Someone else I follow on RU-vid relayed the information they were told by their local track when they wanted to test-ride an electric motorcycle: If the battery is compromised, it will burn for six hours, and is extremely difficult to extinguish. The track will have to shut down until it burns itself out. It isn't as safe, therefore, at a demonstrable level. Again, I love the idea of electric vehicle tech. But there are still so many hurdles to overcome before I can realistically consider one.
I test road a Livewire when it came out and loved it. I could easily see myself replacing the Buell with one for a commuter bike... if it wasn't north of 20k. If HD built a bagger that done 300 miles on a charge, and could take an 80% charge in 30 minutes I could easily see myself replacing my bagger. Alas, neither of those things exist. Also, Harley didn't "build" the Livewire. Harley took the Buell XB12S and made it electric. Pull up a photo of each and put one on each monitor and start comparing.
Great review! Awesome bike!! Regarding the foot peg height, well, you can take these on a race track💪⚡️, and it was a total blast at Leguna Seca! Now I wish I could have tested that peg height on lean angle. :-) Also Energica EGO raced in MotoAmerica Hooligan class.
In Australia, some states are looking at adding a levy to the registration fees of Electric vehicles. This is to make up for the lost revenue on Petrol Taxes which are supposed to be for road maintenance works...
I don't agree the friction is between ICE and electric motorcyclists. I think it's more between the motorcyclists and those insisting "electric must be your future". I looked at the Livewire when it first came out as I was genuinely interested. But it didn't have enough range to even ride home from the nearest dealer. Will an electric motorcycle be a viable option one day? Maybe. But it's only viable in limited use cases now. 35 minute charge times? How many sandwiches do you plan to eat in a day? :)
Sorry, I love the SOUND of my Sportster Forty-Eight and my SV650, the vibration, the smell, all that internal combustion fun stuff. Electric bikes bore me.
