Its an abject market failure. Livewire had its highest sales upon its debut….they have sold less than 70 in 2024. No one wants an electric, soulless motorcycle. Bankruptcy inbound.
Even at 66 miles on the highway, (I’m assuming the article specs have a typo) that is still 25 miles each way with no worries. The whole ethos behind Daily Rider as I see it (a great series once known by another apt name) is all about how well a bike can commute to and from work. I’d guess that the majority of riders commute less than 50 miles one way and they have a 110 outlet to plug into at each end, or at least one at work or home. I just don’t see why people get all hung up on range. I am a 2017 Triumph T100 owner, a proven commuter. I once rented a Zero FX and it was one of the best few days of motorcycling I ever had. I was also pretty anti electric motorcycle before this experience. With all that said, I firmly believe that the Zero FXE did not receive a fair rating in 2023 and I have to believe the same for the Livewire. Also people have to realize that range = weight. You can’t have one without the other. Thank you Zack and Revzilla team. Best content on YT 🏍
The real question: Is the S2 Del Mar the BEST electric motorcycle out there? Regardless I’m glad for those who fund these bikes assuming that it’s pushing the technology further towards a day when electric bikes will be an option for most riders. Finally is this type of bike SAFE? Many of us want to ride a bigger bike for safety reasons.
Love the way that monocoque battery looks. Kinda surprised it's only good for 10.5kWh / 50-70 miles - seems like the design would have room for more. Though at 15k, I wonder if the capacity was more of a cost decision than a space one? ~RF9
Seems to commonly be the case. If you go look at Zero's lineup the cost seems somewhat influenced by performance, but mainly by battery capacity. More battery is a requirement for more performance, but I suspect the battery is the main cost-driver. That would also explain why there isn't a cheaper, slower bike with a large battery capacity.
Likely a weight decision rather than space. we also don’t know what the nominal/total capacity is. Is it 10.5kW with a buffer at the top and bottom ends like the LiveWire One? Or is it 10.5kW with only 9kW usable?
Its the future... so they try to tell us. Theyre basically saying, no more travelling for you peasants, u are allowed a vehicle that barely makes it to your job and back home.
A shame to hear they’re over quoting the range. With EVs it really is totally unacceptable. It’s not just disappointing, it can leave people with a vehicle that’s not fit for purpose.
Take a civic for example. EPA says one number, but if you have a lead foot it's gonna be a smaller number. If you took this bike and set the cruise control at 20mph and went round a track for a day you'd get a bigger number. Wind resistance is a drag. As an EV rider, running out isn't an issue as you gain understanding of the ratio between zoom zoom and range. I'm perfectly content to go 45 listening to podcasts easily, and doing 85 on the highway for an hour. It does both with just as much fun.
The subtle fake is they discuss range, but not speed. The most its disambiguated is "city" and "highway". Not good enough. Instead, they should show a graph of speed vs range. Ive put 50k miles on my 2020 Zero SRS. If I go 40mph I could reach 100 miles from full to depleted. If I go 100 mph I could reach 40 miles. 80mph yields a 60 mile range. They also dont make it clear that temperature affects range. The difference between an 80F day and a 40F day is about 10% reduction in power on the colder day.
Overstating range is universal amongst EVs, and overstating energy capacity is universal amongst batteries. I guess they figure they won't be able to compete in the market if they don't lie so you have to estimate the fudge-factor when purchasing anything electrical.
Not sure why he mentioned that, ranges are based on 55mph, not 70mph. I’ve owned the Del Mar since launch, and have found that LiveWire understates the range based on my own experience of about 3k miles with the bike
@@cowmath77 riding profile means very little on this bike, as it’s a very efficient motor and battery combo. You might see some differences on LOTS of stop and go behavior. However speed is the biggest factor in range efficiency, especially how sustained it is. An average speed is more useful in determining range than what riding mode you’re in
I agree, the problem is that the entire industry (starting with ebikes) has entirely misleading range estimates and companies have to decide to join the existing methodology or instead be accurate. Everyone joins the existing, misleading group in the end.
@@alwaysplaythegame I agree as well, lots of misleading, however that’s all industries. When it comes to range, however, LiveWire has been spot on. I can get more than advertised ranges on all of their motorcycles. So if anything, they underrate their mileage
to answer a question introduced at 32:50. yes it does hold a lot of water. i use one motorcycle to commute, and also go for rides. and yes my 636 is not the best for city riding and commuting, but in my eyes it looks great, rides great, and i can easily hit the twisties and stop at a gas station for a quick refuel and go back home. so an electric bike that costs 15k limits you a lot. because at that point, it is targeted to an audience that already has a motorcycle in their garage and are looking for a second or even third bike. and quite frankly, in that price point, there are countless bikes you buy for a daily rider and a commuter that do almost everything better.
💯 Spot on. If it's going to be your one-and-only, do-it-all bike, then it's a flat-out terrible choice. But for people who have the means for more than one motorcycle, this would be a great addition to the stable as a 'luxury' commuter that can do some shorter joyrides.
I disagree, but it involves math so bear with me. My last commuter bike was perhaps the ultimate gas-powered commuter, a manual transmission Honda NC700X. 60mpg easily, low maintenance. I would get home 5 minutes later whenever I had to stop for gas, which was 10x per month (15 miles away from nearest gas station), 50 weeks out of the year. That adds up to 10 hours annually. Now I commute on an electric motorcycle. It takes 5 seconds per day to plug in, which I do 5x per week. So total annual fueling time is 20 minutes. Factor in time for the increased maintenance on the NC700X (oil changes, air filters, chain maintenance) and we're talking close to 12 hours of time saved annually between that and my Zero. For weekend riding, hitting the twisties or touring, a combustion bike is the toy for you. But for a commuter motorcycle I really don't think there is a better tool for the job.
@@MeowyBrigade Who’s your battery guy? Lithium cells are going for $120/kWh (retail.. ~$84 wholesale). It’s 10kWh. Hopefully you can do the math to see how absurd you sound.
What I love about this channel. The honesty and none biased reporting . And the first person view . Very informative, although sometimes the performance numbers aren't available, but that's fine . There's always a very descriptive report.
Funny coincidence. I just got an email. that there is a recall on the LiveWire. The LiveWire S2 Del Mar recall affects 523 units, all manufactured between July 2023 and January 2024. The faulty Vehicle Supervisory Control module can cause a sudden shutdown in certain conditions, risking accidents. LiveWire allows for a software update over-the-air to fix the issue.
Yeah even my Subaru had a recall and Honda even has had recalls. When you use a lot of electronics on vehicles you are depending on components that might fail. Mechanical components are usually solid but electrical components are hit and miss. @@-Eternal-Damnation-
the FOTA came out in February and doesn’t affect models that are coming out of the factory. Most of us owners had the update well before the recall notice even went out
I think the design is actually really nice. But the fact that the realistic range when having fun (which is really the whole point) is around 60 miles, means you’re practically limited to riding within 25-30 miles of home. That isn’t even enough to get to the fun roads in a lot of places, let alone have enough juice to actually enjoy them.
People just don’t seem to look at use case when discussing electric motorcycles. Commute on the highway? You wouldn’t consider a 125cc dirt bike. It’s not in the picture. It’s the same idea with electric, does the motorcycle do what you need it to do? That is what puts it in the conversation. Personally for me, 90% of my riding is around town. I rarely get on the freeway and if I do it’s only for 15-20 minutes. Something like this checks all the boxes for me personally, so it enters the conversation.
Finally someone that is honest about how they use their motorcycle, lol. The average mileage for most motorcycle riders is 200-250 miles a month - I can do that in a day on the Del Mar. I do about 15k miles a year on my LiveWire motorcycles.
Agreed as it fits my use case, I’m less than 30 miles daily round trip, and I did consider EV bikes… my problem is the cost at $15.5k it’s almost as much as my Tuono V4 was and considerably more than my Tuono 660 or Rebel 500 and those can do so much more with no downside 🤷🏻♂️
Same here, I've had the S2 Del Mar for a few months now. My commute to my business/work one-way is 2.5mi. 95% of what I need to do is within a 15min drive/ride around town. 99% is within 30min, which is about 25mi one-way. It's just so easy to get on and go, and no exhaust fumes/noise makes it nice to really go anywhere. It's also nice to ride around my property with my wife as she rides her horse, not sure many people buy EV bikes for that, but that's one positive I took into consideration.
That was my take as well, I have a bike I cover major distances on, but I also have a little bop around that is pretty much all I ride in the 95% of the time 20 mile radius from home. The range on this one I feel is pretty small for the price tag, but if the way it looks and feels to ride is your cup of tea, then I don't think it's the wrong choice.
On all of your reviews of bikes, you talk about range (tank size and MPG). It makes sense to talk about range on the EV bikes also. The real problem is manufacturers not giving accurate range stats! Come on Harley! If I buy something that has 40% less range than advertised, that's a problem. It's a bigger problem for EVs since charging is not the same as finding the nearest gas station. If you are in the market for any EV, read the reviews, find out what the REAL range is (thanks Zach!) make the best judgement based on your needs (in this case, hopefully your commute is under 50 miles), and purchase accordingly. I don't think we need to make excuses for EVs. The infrastructure is not there yet, the carbon footprint to build one is bad, and the materials batteries are made from are rare, and toxic. I know someone that thinks that electric bicycles are the "answer" to the problem in Seattle. Except that only a small percentage of people are capable of riding a bicycle to work (ability, traffic, distance)! We just need more reality when we talk about EVs and solutions for energy.
I love your job, writing and reviewing And riding. Just got 18" of snow in VT, and I love seeing El Lay on screen. Sitting by the stove patiently waiting for spring, and BTW, it is beautiful, it's home, there is more to life than motorcycling, as fun as it is, if you get back here in future, I'm the red SV 650 retro mod with the tin foil helmet, red leather jacket, and cowboy boots. Two more inches and still coming down.
I always look forward to Saturday mornings for the latest Daily Rider, makes my commute a blast whether I’m being a cager or on the bike. NEVER STOP, IF YOU DO I WILL FIND YOU. lol
@@dangrass $5k to $6k for a triumph 400 which would do the same as this bike just as well this bike is sadly dead on arrival like the livewire was when launched.
@@patw9175 have fun pushing the Del mar after 40 miles at 70 . For less than $10k there are numerous better more practical motorcycles from homda’s dreary 500 twins to numerous scooters that would do a better job of a short commute and be able to do some longer trips without worrying about refuelling.The Del Mar would make sense at $10k as a city bike but $15,500 for a bike with a range of about 80 to 90 miles under ideal conditions it just doesn’t cut it.
@@dangrass 2x the price for more than 2x the capabilities seems like a good deal when you put it like that. Of course for the same 15K you could have any other great and far more capable bike like the Africa Twin or maybe a sports tourer.
50 mile range? It’s a joke. I know someone who owns one and he loves it. My philosophy has always been to under promise and over deliver. That makes for happy customers. That Livewire/H-D chose to do the opposite is disappointing.
Hey Zak, Just wanted to let you know that I basically do your daily rider routine most mornings on my commute to work on my 2016 Bonneville T100. You know, the fun stuff - navigating those speedbumps, practicing my stop sign skills, and even throwing in some two-space U-turns for good measure. It's a great way to warm up the bike and myself for the day!
🖤the snaking river analogy - my daily commute on the S2DM matches it perfectly. some calm, some rapids, some SUV riding into the back of me while I power whoolie out of its way. you said it best, it's invigorating.
It's notable that people who like/own EV motorcycles don't feel the need to go to reviews of new ICE bikes to tell people how they're not going to buy it and everything that they think is wrong with them.
Quick note on the torque thing. An electric motor typically shows highest torque at 0 RPM and drops off from there so it would act opposite of an ICE bike/car. It'll do that 0-40mph incredibly quick but past there it's pretty standard to slow (assuming infinite grip)
I like how no one watched the video before commenting because damn no one is talking but that SUV was on his ass at the 5-6 minute mark that he had to signal to them to back off
Everyone really should make time to try one. This bike is a smile machine, goes like crazy. Unfortunately, like a roller coaster, the ride is over too soon...
Just like EV cars, their best role is to serve as frequent, short distance transport that allows for you to return to your home before it needs charging. And at this home, you have a garage,.and it charges there. For that, awesome. EVs are great at a limited number of roles at this point. I have a 2020 Zero SRS on which Ive racked up 50k miles back and forth from work.... its one job. Its parked next to my gas bike in my garage.
Yeah. They make great grocery getters. Probably the best vehicles out there for this specific purpose. Beyond that though, there's quite a bit of R&D that still needs to be done.
hmm...speaking as someone who has ridden bikes for 50 years, has a GSX S1000, a Grom, and a Tesla model 3, I disagree. I use the Tesla to "commute" 900 miles between Oakland, CA and Jackson, WY 4x a year, and it takes not one minute longer to do the trip in the Tesla than in any of my previous IC vehicles. I use the car to travel all over the Sierra, Nevada, pretty much everywhere, and it's a great long distance vehicle.
@@dangrass My sis has a Model S and goes from FL to CA a couple times a year and it takes her at least half a day longer than a ICE car. She power naps when charging so never gets a hotel.
@@bunberrier I suppose it really comes down to the type of traveler one is. If you take a break every couple of hours to pee, drink and the occasional lunch/diner while charging, then charging stops do not really take any more time out of the trip. If, on the other hand, you like to drive 12 hours straight with only quick fueling stops, then it will definitely take longer to charge a vehicle than fill it up.
Hey Zack, I love your stuff, but I do think you should have talked more about how quickly this thing charges. (78 minutes for 80% at 240V) For someone like me, with a 240V outlet in the garage, and with free electricity from solar panels, this is pretty sweet deal. I hadn't considered a REAL electric bike before, but based on your review, I'm going to check this bad boy out. Keep up the good work.
That's about 1% charge per minute. But if you take it on the highway and go 100mph then you're charging it more than you're using it... at 100mph at best it will last 45 minutes
“…bored of those conversations…” Range and cost of batteries are very legitimate conversations. I suppose if you just ride a few miles a day then there’s no concern. But at some point, most riders usually want to go further than just ride to work and back and then those concerns jump right out at you.
I think what he is trying to say is that range is about the only thing that anyone talks about with EVs, and it does get old. Look, if this is your only mode of transportation then it is highly impractical unless you never leave the city (hence, the low ranking on the DAILY RIDER leaderboard). Hell, if this were your only motorcycle, it might still be impractical depending on how you ride. But if you want a toy to goof around on, and don’t need equate noise to being manly, then this could work well for some people. I mean it looks fun to ride if you ask me - I don’t plan on buying one, but I get the appeal. This is not an everyone bike, e-motorcycles are still in a development phase. Not everyone needed a 4k TV when they first came out, but some people really thought they were cool and were willing to pony up huge sums of money for the latest tech. Now they are the norm, because economies of scale caught up to that tech. Maybe e-motorcycles will get to that point, maybe not. Either way, if range is a concern for you, then you are not the target market, so go buy another bike instead of complaining that LiveWire (or whoever) is not listening to you or building what you need. We are spoiled for choice, so it’s ridiculous that people can only harp on the reason why they would not buy this bike. We get it, it’s not for you, now move on and go buy something that is for you.
@@sschoon86 I did but something else for me. But it's a valid argument to discuss range. When there's commenting available, people will comment. Telling someone to move on is just dismissing others opinions which you have no right to do!
@@gregsilver But I mean did you watch the video? He brought up range a few times, which seemed to be a sufficient discussion on it. He just didn't want to beat the dead horse that is EV range. Some people want to make it out that the range is a huge roadblock for them - that's great, but it's been said a million times in a million different ways. If it's for you then buy one, if not then move on. You can call that dismissive, but there are realities to come to grips with here. The battery tech is what it is at this point. Maybe it will get better, and range could become an insignificant issue. But for now, more batteries means more weight, higher cost at purchase, higher replacement costs, etc. and designers try to make the best compromises for their design. E-motorcycles have even more challenges to overcome that E-cars, given how much weight impacts the riding experience. They can't be everything to everyone, and that's just a reality. And you're right, anyone can say whatever they want in the comments. But again, what good does complaining about the new tech do? Unless someone is legitimately considering purchasing an e-motorcycle, then their "concern" is just complaining - which accomplishes nothing. This is a big problem with comments: everyone has an opinion, but they are not all good ones, sometimes they are not even relevant to the discussion at hand.
I know the topic of range with electric bikes is completely beating a dead horse, but wow! There would have to be serious improvements in battery technology before I would consider buying one. Edit: Having watched to the end I feel a bit guilty for complaining. For how I ride my current bike, commuting mostly, this bike’s range would work just fine. 😅
It's a valid complaint for commuters though. I'm a sport bike guy so the closest bike that I'd be interested in is the electric ninja. That bike quite literally won't come near getting me to and from work without charging it while I'm working, which isn't an option for me. In also turned off by the entire rest of the spec sheet though as well lmao
@@fordas8949 they're cool, but for the price point there are insanely good gas bikes. That being said my main issue with them is they are so new and for what they cost I wouldn't wanna be the beta tester, if they even are actually delivering product and not just collecting pre/orders
@@dangrass I'd heavily agree with you, if it wasn't the price. 125's, 150's even seem like such a better option to me (but then again I also live on a 3rd world country).
You are doing the best reviews out there. No bias, just the facts on if a machine is a decent, fun ride. I appreciate this content, and as a result will shop RevZilla more often.
The range aspect will always be a big deal and will always hold water for the reason you mentioned at the end. I have plenty of rides that would be within range like you, but not all of them. If putting out the $$$ I want something that I can ride anywhere, regardless of range. Budget will always be a restriction on travel plans, the amount of rallies/bike weeks/etc I can do a year, don’t need another restriction 🤘
Marc travels is a guy going round the world on a Zero and he's pushing 185 mile trips. Sure he's taking it easy and sometimes drafting trucks and busses, but that bike will outrange a Harley by miles on any normal day. Plus it's faster and more planted. If it was your money. Would you buy a Del mar or a Zero?
He's doing well, from the tip of Scotland down to the tip of India currently. Sounds like he's had zero support & poor customer service from Zero. He's achieved it running on 90% battery capacity, apparently Zero didn't unlock the full charge capacity for him knowing he was riding around the world?!. I personally wouldn't buy from a company with poor customer support, especially as electric bike are still quite niche
If electric bikes were expensive but had huge ranges or cheap with poor ranges it would be one thing, unfortunately they seem to have chosen the 'expensive' and 'short range' options out of those two options to combine. When they combine the other two options of cheap with huge range they'll be much more popular 🙂
What I found very telling - possibly more than anything else in the this review was the sound of pure joy and laughter when “hooning” the DelMar. I think that is the reason it exists. Sure it lacks range, sure it’s expensive, but it is such a fun and playful machine. Like nothing else I’ve experienced
As a side note, a great display of fun but safe street riding on display here from Zach! Instinctively communicating with drivers with hand signals and the horn (21:25) and acting predictably without missing a beat with his train of thought is impressive!
Dear future motorcycle ev rider. I felt like you did at the beginning. Then I rode it long distance and tooled around town. I love it so much I now own two livewires.
If you're going to discuss range at all you have to talk about how quick it charges. I don't generally like sitting on a bike for more than 50 to 100 mi anyway.
@@wlt3585 Yeah, but this video isn't for people actually in the market. If it were, a 30K BMW sport bike with weird fins on the front of it wouldn't be rated as a superior commuter bike...
“Yes, but this bike cannot do 300 miles on a single tank, so when I would want to ride it across the desert I couldn’t do it! That’s why I’ll never buy one.” *Rides off to the local Starbucks 5 miles away… 🤪
Loved the video and thought the comments at the end about what % of rides we do below 80 miles made me think. It would be fun for commutes and going to movies and all that. I don't think I heard how long it takes to charge? Or to some good % is it fast to charge?
As a citizen of rural Alaska and part time resident of rural Colombia; moto traveler, camper, “adventurer”, etc…we use moto’s in a different capacity than most. Change can be good. Time with tell with this genre.
I understand being tired of addressing the limited range, but having a motorcycle that effectively keeps you in a 25-30 mile radius of your home or requires you to find a place to spend a few hours recharging to make the trip home, is definitely a dealbreaker.
It’s more like 70-80 mile radius, and you don’t have to wait the full 142 minutes to recharge. EV refueling is a different style than traditional refueling. I can easily do 250 miles a day without really trying.
@@AdventuresonZero No, not a 70-80 mile radius unless you're able to charge it on the go. If you only charge at home you can't go more than 25 miles from home without risking getting stranded. That's what a radius is.
Loud pipes definitely save lives. And a clutch and the sound of the engine and exhaust is so much fun. It's the soul of a bike. I would never ride an electric bike.
Hey Zack, Can you get your hands on an Energica Experia for the Daily Rider? Just drove a demo in Massachusetts in February and was really impressed. But I couldn't do a range test because I only drove it for an hour or so around town. Seat height was a stretch for my 30-inch inseam, but it handled beautifully and had other-worldly acceleration. Loved the silence. And nice looking bike, too!
As someone who rides basically every day I could see adding this bike to my stable. I have gas bikes to ride when I need to do a big day but for the majority of trips in day to day life, 50 miles are more than enough. If you live out in the sticks this probably isn’t for you but If you’re using this to get to work on a daily basis, you probably can’t do much better than this wheelie machine. That being said I’ll wait a few years to buy one at a deep discount and with the money saved off MSRP, throw in an aftermarket battery with additional range. Look at what people are doing with Sur-Ron’s!
Hmm you might be bored of the range conversation Zack, but the issue is very very real. I just rewatched the long way up and they were getting 130+ miles range from their live wires and yeah that’s a useable range. Not great, but battery limitations etc. 50-70 miles? Nah we’re supposed to call bullshit on that just like if the new Honda hornet had a 1 gal tank.
Ewan and Charley were also going relatively slow to get that range on those bikes. The Del Mar (and all S2 platforms) are better suited for lower speeds because of the direct drive. A Del Mar could probably reach ranges of 90-100 miles at those speeds used in Long Way Up, and given the Level 2 chargers installed along the way, it’s likely a S2 could get better daily mileage than the LW1
@@AdventuresonZero I don’t think so. Zack says he could not get those ranges at all trying with eco and the best he’s seen people report is 80 which he can’t replicate. Long way up quotes ~50mph a lot of the time once the roads and weather improved. But yeah Zack estimated 40miles of highway range… honestly I think he’s being very accurate with the ranges quoted in the video
@@Bobby-wn5yr I own both bikes, and even have converted my LiveWire One exactly how it was done for Long Way Up 🤣 With the exception of having an additional 1.4kW unlocked like they did on LWU, I can assure the S2 is better suited - I’ve done range tests on both along the same routes at same speeds. The direct drive of the Del Mar is better at low speeds than the 90° drive of the LW1, S2 is more efficient. I’ve got 3k miles on the Del Mar, I don’t know how Zach got his numbers, and just saying that what he says does not match up to what I’ve experienced.
@@DrstrappsI’m absolutely not buying it tbh. It’s always the guy who replies who has all the bikes. Googling them them he does seem to be the only one exceeding Harley’s range quote 🤣 They have both bikes and their first comment wasn’t ’I have both bikes and my range is actually X’ X to doubt Tbh I’m not even sure you aren’t the same person, replying 1 minute later to a reply to a thread with 1 vote on it…. Hmm
A good review as per usual, and I can appreciate your sentiment of being tired of the first thing discussed always being range anxiety on electrics. The bike is what it is, and if that doesn't work for you, don't buy it - simple as that. I don't need 400 miles of range on a bike, but I do need at least 120. I've got a tune on my FZ09, and with my riding style I start sweating to find a gas station before 150 miles for sure which is touch and go in some places and it's nearly left me stranded a few times. But it's something that still works for me. Know what you want and know what you need.
I am actually looking forward to a electric motorcycle once the battery technology catches up. Silent evening ride just looking at wildlife. They don't have enough range for the place i live. In the backwoods naborhood I am in I couldn't get to town and back.
I think ~150mi range with mixed highway and city riding is gonna be possible in like 5 years for e-cycles. Maybe I'm just optimistic, but better to be an optimist right? (Or something like that)
Had a first gen live wire. Had a blast for a few months. A lot of fun. I got fed up with limitations at weekends going out with mates. Also Once you go over 55mph. The range drops badly. You are only Meant to fast charge one in three or four charges or you can negatively impact the battery. If you can afford one as a second bike. Maybe. I’d just put the money into something else now. Ireland is not really for them.
In 2020 I bought a used 2019 Zero SR for $10,000. It had 1,900 miles on it. It was mint. It has a 14kwh battery, and it gets 70 miles on the freeway, and 140 miles in the city. It is absolutely perfect for urban riding. I use it to commute. I can get 10 days of commuting between charges (my commute is pretty short). Since it's an automatic, it's super nimble in traffic. Since it's electric, it's super quiet and you can really hear cars coming up from behind you (and birds, and people talking, and everything else). I don't wear earplugs when I ride it. No oil, oil filter, air filter, etc. No fumes in my garage. No waking up the neighbors when I leave in the morning. And it's fun. It's actually 'too zippy' in sport mode, so I run it on 'custom' with about 70% power. With the regen braking, I'll likely never have to get new brake pads. - The only two negatives are the range and the charging. The bike accepts level 2 charging, but it takes 4 hours to fully charge. And with a 70 freeway range, that prohibits taking the bike out of town. However, that works for me, as this is my commuter so it doesn't affect me. (Although it would be nice to have the option to take it for weekend trips....). - Oh, I suppose there is one more downside. I'll never experience the joy of buying another new bike, as the Zero will last until I'm dead.
One of the things I really like about my T100 Bonneville is that the range indication is spot on and adjusts for the way you are riding. You can rely on it. The fuel warning light comes on a 40 (UK) miles to go. The LiveWire riding would be mostly within my reserve range. Range really does matter to me - on holiday I can ride 150-200 miles in a day. Thanks for the review.
I have been a H-D fan since the mid-90's and the brand continues to shine...I am very thankful they are reaching out to new riders with various levels and tastes. I really like the Livewire brand and I would buy one almost immediately IF they give us a 200 mile (consistent) range and fast charging capability. The newest battery tech out there allows full 100% daily charging without degradation of the battery and better life span. Sure, these are not for everybody...thankfully, that's why we have options and other brands. I am looking forward to what H-D is bringing next...Bronx? or some other? The Pan America truly begins a new chapter. Keep innovating and doing what you do well, learn and continue to reach beyond the established box, while rockin' the existing traditions as well.
When the powerband hits, two strokes are the best adrenalin hit on the planet. Yea, I miss them too. Imagine if they kept making them and made a 1000cc two stroke triple or four cylinder.
I'm glad that Harley is trying something different with these bikes. Their core demographic is getting old and soon won't be riding anymore, so it's definitely important for them to expand their line-up to catch up with the competition. Not hating on their traditional motorcycles, I'm sure they'll stay relatively popular, but they're definitely not for everyone.
There's no difference except that an ICE will stay superior for a long, long time. If you judge all motorcycles by Harley standards, you're doing yourself and everyone else a disservice.
Unfortunate coincidence: NHTSA just announced a recall due to possibly loose axle/shock nuts. Interestingly, HD refers to several possible areas, including the power train, in which a “third party” contractor may have shipped units with “zero clamp load” (no torque).
Firmware over the air update had already corrected this issue before the notice was even sent to owners (we got them in early February). All bikes coming out of the factory have this update.
@@bsmukler gah! Saw ‘recall’ and thought you were mentioning the software recall, my mistake! I haven’t seen this notice yet. Will have to check with other owners if they got anything as well. We were only aware of the firmware error for a recall. Thanks for the correction
You also have to consider that you shouldn't charge it over 90% and need to reserve 10-15% to be on the safe side. So in essence it's a 40 to 50 miles bike. And that's is with a new battery and warm temperatures.
Sorry, I believe all electric development needs all companies to use the same battery first. Then developed scooter or off road bike and progress up. Just me?
Not really. Since there are many different qualities of cells. Take a molicel vs a low end Sony, you would be silly to put such an expensive battery in a 2000w scooter compared to a 80kw motorcycle. And to ask 80kw from a low end cell will not go well. I think the energica approach to range issues is best, DC fast charging in 15 minutes. And 6kw AC charging the rest of the time.
@@marsrover001 I am from old school RC car world, when we separate the type of battery and charging connectors, it makes charging and batteries more expensive. If all charging areas had one or three types of batteries that were maintained by the charging companies. We might see a future. Just don't see this electric thing is going anywhere till there is common ground with all companies. It starts with the battery and then how to film them. To much R and D each company is putting into the same technology, while this is going to market.
I’m also bored of the conversation, electric bikes are a whole different thing than electric cars. Electric Bikes are actually fun and most people aren’t buying bikes to travel across the country anyway.
Exactly, buying a super sport to use on the street is far from practical, but people still do it because it's fun. People hide behind "practicality" when I think most of them just have a slight bias against EV's
Electric bikes are inferior as a product, that's the main argument. Range, no character, no maintainability. The issue with EV is the centralization of products which blows.
speak for yourself. I rode my super sport on a 2000 mile road trip. It was hard, but awesome. Don’t tell me sport bikes are impractical. You can daily or tour anything if your back isn’t a wet sponge. Electric bikes are cool but they dont go vroom which is super lame
Wow…that thing is a soulless as it is ugly. And that price? Is that a joke? Short range, heavy, looks like a cheap amazon purchase…is this what the masses are asking for? No, not at all.
The masses are asking for affordable motorcycles, which we are getting some. However, they're being packed with all these electronic features that hardly anyone wants or needs. ABS? Sure. Navigation? Music? No. A Bluetooth helmet and a phone mount solves that.
$15,000, 66 miles range (and manufacturer who misleads on that score). I’d love an electric bike. But why in the world would you spend that kind of money for such an incredibly low amount of range? Can go 66 miles on a $17 bus ticket.
Electric bikes have no gears. The one, sole and complete reason motorcycles get great mileage is the transmission-get up to speed, pop it in 5th or 6th gear and lope around at 2-4000rpm. Electric bikes are all direct drive with no transmission, so if you're at freeway speeds you're effectively redlining the motor in first gear! The mileage problem will continue until somebody puts a Low/High gear at least, and that's why I don't mess with electric motorcycles. Now, electric BIKES, with pedals? Those I can get into! Those Serial 1 ebikes are rad, and from the same company too!
Electric motors really don't care about RPMs unlike a traditional engine. You can spin them high and they only consume current relative to throttle input. There is also a lot of magic going on behind the scenes with the controller and throttle. Unless you're absolutely topping it out, a lot of bikes will show you active consumption at speed and it's not like you're thinking it is.
That’s not how electric motors work at all. It doesn’t matter for them how fast they spin, what matters is how much work the motor it has to do to push through the air (which goes up roughly with the velocity squared). Same for gas bikes, but they are just horribly inefficient at low speeds and low loads, making you waste more energy in the form of fuel, which is why mileage on highways is usually much better than in the city, for gas bikes.
When Harley Davidson start styling them in the traditional chopper style like my wide glide I would consider them for myself but until then I'll just watch thanks, thank you for sharing your experience
I am early for once. Finally a quality review of this piece of crap EV. Maybe it will surprise me? But so far, I am not a fan of the Electric Motorcycles.
I was not surprised. Typical Electric Motorcycle. Under-performs versus the claimed specs. Not good for the highway. Bad range. Too expensive. I would not buy this Glorified SurRon made for the streets for $15K. What a joke! For just a bit more, I can get a Hayabusa, or for a bit less for the many choices of beautiful Litre Bikes that will give the same excitement but out-perform the Electric Moto in every category, except Torque but Torque is nowhere near a deal breaker in buying decision. I wouldn't even class this LiveWire thing as a Legit Full-Fledged Motorcycle. Not when every ICE Moto in its respective Power Class triumphs over them at almost every cost.
Hey, that’s a BMW G310GS parked outside of Daily Rider! My bike! I wish Zack had or would do a review of it! (Yes, I am aware it was in the small bikes shoot-out.). Perhaps an “Made in India” special of Royal Enfield 350, Himalaya, Triumph 400X, and the BMW G310 R or GS? Too bad there is no plan to bring the Jawa 300CL nor the Honda GB/CB350 here.
I just don't know, if you really want an electric motorcycle, why you would pick this over something like a Solar E-clipse or a TC Max or even a heavily modified Surron, all of which offer similar speed and range for as low as a third of the price. I don't think Harley really has a grasp on what kind of audience electric motorcycles cater to.
I mean this is faster I can travel further and e-bike and an electric motorcycle are in 2 different classes. Also there are tons of people on surrons getting pulled over on the street.
