It's my Avantime. I've already done so much work on it and it always needs some more work, because Avantime :) The spare wheel is underneath the car like a lot of French cars, the double bottom is because the car had an LPG/GPL system but that's removed now. I levaed the double bottom in the rear of the car because of putting some stuff beautifully hidden underneath it. But without that the space in the rear is better. The nav system isn't touch screen but for operating it you should use that big round button. I've fitted a new heated windshield last year that costed 1700 euros. I've also done a lot of work on the suspension etc. that costed me 2200 euros, and now I'm collecting the money to repair that AC system. :) Parts are rare and mostly expensive so you won't do everything at one time to keep it a bit nice. I've also find another driver seat and some new trim panels but that's still in my shed. Within some time it will be in the car. And yeah, that gearbox. It's doing that sound already for years and those gearboxes aren't well known as very good ones. The sounds isn't changing but one day it will need some refurbishing for sure. Owning an Avantime was always a big dream for me. When I turned 30 years old I thought now is the time and I wanted one with the 2.0T engine and a beige leather interior. I'm still so proud on this car and the fact I own one. But it will be always a project car on the road.
You're a brave man to take on one of these. Although it's a strange car in many ways I still think it looks fantastic. Thank goodness for people like you who do this to help preserve some wonderful motoring heritage.
@@andymoran9370 Got a petrol so not much can go wrong there lol, you are right she regularly wants to have money thrown at her, trying to keep her afloat for a long time even Citroen makes that deliberately difficult nowadays. Good luck with your car and have you thought about additives for the noisy gearbox?
The Vel Satis did also have some rivals at that time including the Vauxhall/Opel Signum which was a Vauxhall/Opel Vectra which was a little bit more luxurious with a Hatchback. The Vel Satis also was built on those same guidelines as a large luxury hatchback.
I'm on my third V6 Privilege. Dodged the cambelt issue by selling the first two just before they were due. Eventually mothballed the third as it was originally the runabout for Renault's director of accessories. He toured dealerships with it, drumming up business for slow selling options like the factory bodykit, Olympie 18" alloys, twin tailpipes and even Webasto auxiliary heating. An owner of one of those dealerships decided he simply had to have it, and acquired the beast as soon as Avantimes got the chop. It remains in my mind, the ultimate 2+2 Trans Europe Express. Then again, at that time my second car was an Audi A2. I also yearn for my Multipla Sporting so... ...only true HubNutters need apply!
Renault had the Avantime Concept vehicle on display at their 1999 Goodwood Festival of Speed stand...It was a VERY striking car to look at, so myself & my father are there admiring it & it's design, but next to us was a small-ish guy with spectacles, who was clearly listening to our conversation. So we got talking with him, chatting about the car & how good we thought it was, & one of us said to him ''Well, what do you think of it...?'' & he replied in his French accent ''I like it very much...But then I have to, because I designed it...!'' 😲 It was only Patrick Le Quement himself...!!! A lovely man & brilliant designer.
Remember these when these came out, looked like nothing else. Used to be one at a Renault Specialist where I used to get my Cashcow serviced, it was a non runner but still looked amazing just parked up. Thanks for this review Ian.
I have always liked these because they are utterly pointless but in the same vain as the Clio V6, they shouldn’t exist but the car world is far more better because they do. If I have a Lottery garage one day, both cars will be in there lol. Great video as always Ian!
I thought Citroen had quirky French engineering covered until I saw those double-hinged doors. Wow. I think the styling of this car is great (although disclaimer: I drive a Gen3 Nissan Cube)
@@patriotbarrow Thanks man👍 We managed to pick up a 3yr/13k miles one 9 years ago (pretty cheap, dealers found them hard to shift) and been really happy with it. It’s surprisingly (disappointingly?) conventional on the inside, the asymmetrical rear screen doesn’t show once you’re inside. Nice high driving position, (bizarrely large Sun visors). Panoramic roof glass is great too. The sliding rear seats for legroom/boot space is handy. Downside: not hugely economical, around 32mpg winter; 38mpg summer; the steering lock/start button packed up and was £700 to replace (it’s a common Cube fault). I also replaced the rear door actuator which failed (Renault part, there’s a lot of Renault parts in the Cube, including the spare wheel being in a drop-down cage under the car 🤨). Not too arduous to replace the actuator, took me an hour, good owners club resources out there 👍 It takes a bit of getting used to the looks you get when driving it, but great family car, easy to live with. Would recommend the Kaizen spec as it has more toys
This car overlaps with the production years of the Espace 3. The A/C control panel, radio, rev counter, steering wheel controls and center dashboard you hsowed is shared with the espace. The main radio unit is not where you showed it (those are just the cd units) but it has a headless unit under the passenger seat. Same remote as in the espace too. Same engine, but the espace 3 was also available as non turbo f4r.
I think the main reason these bombed was that they were incredibly expensive and most people looking for a car this size would very much prefer a 5 door over a 3 door since by looking at it you would think "oh that would be a nice family car". Then you realise the boot is shallow, only 3 doors and expensive especially when there were picasso's, toyota picnic's,ford galaxy's and even toyota Rav 4's about which all were better for family needs.
Having an insight into this and the Espace has been a treat. Thanks Ian and the owner(s). I wonder how many of the 8,000 odd are still in existence. Not many V6s I guess if the engine has to come out for a cambelt change. Now a great rare classic car.
Utterly bonkers but wonderfully interesting. I nearly bought a dark purple metallic one, but fear of it breaking was too great.... Certainly stands out, thats for sure
I remember when I had a problem with the Matra Murena (stuck brake caliper) and I popped in at a local Renault dealership to have it repaired, when they had a then-new Avantime on display in the showroom. It was the most brilliant pastime of waiting on a repair I have ever had. What a car! There was a very short lived poverty spec Avantime without the opening roof, marketed just before Matra pulled out of automobile production.
Absolutely adore these cars and so glad I was right when you teased another MPV review coming soon. This feels, and looks, to me like something of a concept car to me and almost looks like an MPV which was designed by a person who loved supercars but also had to design a big car like this. I love these things so much and appreciate this video so much! Excellent work Ian! :D
Utterly ridiculous and completely pointless car. So that's a big 2 thumbs up from me. Not all of us want to drive around in a bland, beige, drab, uninspiring, dull, box on wheels. So thank goodness for the odd flash of madness that actually finds it's way into dealer's showrooms.
I don't want to be that guy, but the boot is absolutely massive. The spare wheel sits under the car. The boot looks small because the owner has a second parcel shelf in the second level which is designed to give a flat loading floor - very clever feature!!! Also the bonnet is actually steel, so not all the panels are SMC. I have covered some more details in my own video of my Avantime. This car is also quite rare and unusual because it is a 2 0 Privilege - a specification we didn't get in the UK, only the 3.0 was a Privilege in the UK, 2.0 was Dynamique only. The Disc reader in the glovebox is just for the satnav. The CD player is in the centre console. The back seats are pants - definitely agree. Fantastic experience for them, the view and the open air experience is just as special, but you sit with your knees around.your ears and your feet at 90 degrees which isn't natural...
I’ve just joined the HubNut clan…..I’ve purchased a 2003 1.2 Fiat Seicento Active ….. as a shopping car / dog car, for £700, a years road tax, recent service, and 4 new tyres…..👍🇮🇲💪
My aunt had one of these for a few years, it might even be this one, was 100% the same, color, interior and 4cyl engine. She was a business woman, and the car was leased for business. I only made a few trips in the car but it was a great experience. I should buy one, I can;t imagine them ever going in down in value, giving the low production volume.
I've always loved these. I do wonder if they'd not been so ahead of their time (pardon the pun) would they have sold any better? Sadly we'll never know!
If I remember correctly the Espace also came with a remote control for the stereo? Love Renaults and French cars. Only thing I never liked was the electrics (windows specifically) and sometimes 'wooden/ no feel' brakes, but they do drive smoothly, hold the road well, are quiet and steer well too. Renaults make me smile when I'm in one. No other make of car does this for me. Thanks HubNut - great vids as usual. Keep living the dream...
9:36 I’ve had similar happen to me with my old Chevrolet Malibu Maxx hatchback so that made me chuckle lol! Thank you for a really informative and entertaining video, Ian!
OK , before I even watch this - the Avantime is one of my favourite cars... it may turn out to be crap, but I will love it none the less, such is the way of the Hubnut 🙂
Are you talking from experience with 2.2dCi? Over 350k km on all of mine Avantimes. Yes for timing job on 3.0 V6, there is an engine out. Sorry, but it hurts to watch how harsh are you touching and opening everything. Why people love the V6, because it consumes a liter or two more than 2.0T, they are not that problematic, if you ignore the expensive timing job. Heated windshield is a big plus, but problematic to get if it cracks, wipers on that car are wrong. If you ask me as an owner of Vel Satis and few Avantimes... its a hard decision Vel Satis or Avantime. p.s. Avantime is not a car for everyone!
I wonder how many of these remain. I ask because my neighbour has one, that is absolutely immaculate. I wonder if he realises what a rare vehicle he has
Since you have driven the Murena, the Espace Mk 1 and now the Avantime, maybe it would be an idea to take the trailer tent to central France next summer and visit the Matra museum in Romorantin.
The Avantime was definitely a 'WTF?' car, it just made no sense, even for a french car, it just didn't know what it was or was meant to be, I will say though the colour is amazing (but I do love blue), and it does remind me of a shuttlecraft from Star Trek, only the car is less useful, and can't go at faster-than-light speeds, not that anything can so far yet... :P
I really, really, really dislike prv V6 engines, due to that timing setup. We had R25 variants in the US (Eagle Premier and the last Dodge Monaco). Chrysler fans might be interested to know that the first LH cars were derived from the engineering of the R25. Thanks for a wonderful video of an intriguing car. I just saw where Nissan got design cues that they used for a decade too long. Cheers.
Car or mint? Seriously though, if it weren't for quirky French cars, about the only thing with a different shape would be the Nissan Joke...then it really would be time to give up.
Great review - and very fair (except the boot, which is a good size, there's usually one panel, which can be put at the top as a parcel shelf, or the bottom for a flat floor). I have had mine for 9 years and use it as family transport for holidays. It's a bit thirsty by today's standards, inside the cabin is far too cramped for the size of the car (having a multipla - you get more leg room front and rear in that, similar boot space AND its 2ft shorter!) . Mine is similarly HubNut - less milage but knackered leather, non-opening ashtray, non-sliding seat, no bulbs in the rev meter -so it was lovely to see that mine isn't the only actually used example. Values of ones in need of TLC are not ridiculous, around £2k will get you something working but in need of TLC, but they're not always advertised in the usual places. The forum is a great resource for keeping it going. I have a review on my channel of mine - not as engaging as yours, but informative for those interested.
Oh, and a quick warning - the RHD version does NOT have a rest for your clutch foot! Also worth noting that the 2.0T in the UK only came in Dynamique spec, which is why the V6 is so much the preferred choice, not only do you get the bigger engine, but also all the toys (heated screen, multi-CD player, electric folding mirrors, full leather, parking sensors, cruise control) - however all can be added (with varying amounts of work) if particularly desired. You get black half-leather/cloth seats as standard on the Dynamique.
I've always liked the Avantime, but I'm sure that owning one as a 'daily' would be challenging. It would be a heck of a nice 'high days and holidays' car, though. Incidentally, there's been an almost identical car to the one in the video (PA03 GKC, a V6 that has just run out of tax and MOT, according to the DVLA) parked on the street opposite the premises of a Renault specialist in Chelmsford for several weeks now. I'm not sure if it belongs to them or to a customer, but it seems a shame to leave such a rare and cool car parked on a public road almost constantly traversed by artics and white vans. There's a Vel Satis and a left hand drive 11 Turbo in the same situation as well.
The Espace 3 has the same issue with a high floor for the rear passengers, but helped by having more space. You still can't stretch out much unless they're really far back. I think the wipers should go further, I can't remember that corner of disappointment on the driver's side and I assume it's the same mechanism as the Espace 3.
Renault went through a phase of building some very silly cars, they went completely bonkers by 2001.- Spider 1996-1999, Clio V6 2001-2005, Avantime 2001-2003, Velsatis 2001-2009. Scenic Rx4 2000- 2003. The concepts were very unusual also. Much more interesting than todays dross.
This is a car where someone would say "it depends..." There was a demand for the Avantime in the "creative scene" over here in Germany. For example a cook wanting to show his ambition for Fine Arts in what he does, and this unusual car fitted pretty much to express the mindset. Today, there is not much to show your mindset with a car for a complete lack of choices to choose the unusual...🙂
I’ve always loved the Aventime. I love it’s styling, the concept works for me, possibly the engine choice could’ve been better but otherwise I’d love one
I remember seeing the launch ad featuring Jean-Paul Gaultier, and it was enticing (if a little vague). The privilege model (3.0L V6) in 2002 went on sale in the UK at a staggering £28k. Six years later I got one (with LPG conversion) for £5k. Regret selling her to be honest as out of all the cars I've owned this one turned the most heads. Though it really was a worldwide flop, with 2nd hand values increasing partly due to a segment in Top Gear, and appearances in films like 'Children Of Men' and 'Ready Player One'.
A Citroën marketing specialist once summed up to me the experience of French experimenting in the words “You must not be right too early.” For the Avantime though, it’s not so much about timing, but about giving an answer to a question that nobody’s asking, and never will ask. Apparently, if you want to do “coupés” that are all the wrong proportions, you need to start cutting (in French “couper”) an SUV, and not an MPV. Expensive rubbish like BMW X6 and other marketing bullshit cars combining the faults of SUVs with the faults of coupés seem to attract twats with too much money rather well.
You're not wrong to disclaim the plastic panels making it ALMOST rust proof. Ihad a 1993 Saturn SW with plastic panels. The rust underneath went unchecked too long, however it did have over 400,000km on it when it died.
FWIW MG Rover came close to doing a deal with Matra on a rebadged/facelifted Espace III but couldn't agree quantities. This was about the time that the Avantime ended, along with Matra. Also recommend the Big Car RU-vid Avantime video with period imagery. Be interesting sometime to see a Hubnut review of the Mark 2 Megan Scenic (ideally a rare Conquest).
Honestly V6s aren't that thirsty, maybe for city driving but a 2 liter i4 will need almost as much fuel to motivate 1,5 to 2 tons of weight My V6 407 coupe averaged like 7l/100km on a 200km road trip with a few stops in between. Couldn't imagine a smaller engine doing it for under 6
Wonderful concept, as if a mad billionaire just wanted to burn money. Similarly practical as an Infiniti Q90(?), massive car, no boot. I’d say it’s borderline art, which means such excess is ok.as long as someone else is paying.
If they spent millions doing that door hinge they were wasting their time. Mercedes did it on the W215 CL-class 2 years before. And I doubt they weren't the first either. Avantime/Vel Satis are still funky cars though. So French.
The Ford patent for their heated front screen expired a number of years back. It's been availbale on VWs since about 2005, also on MINI and some other manufacturers. It is no longer exclusive to Ford Group cars.
one of these was scanned in for the Gran Turismo series, and it was quite fun to tune the crap out of it, and blow people's doors off. the States has it's own french quirky style one of these, the Pontiac Aztek (or ASStek as they called it over here in places). they'd come up with a crossover before people even NEEDED them, and were a flop. now I see them EVERYWHERE.
I had one as a company car for a firm not far away from Mr UpnDown in Fareham. A surefire head turner, hence why the business owner had the fleet of 12 signwritten. On a practical level they were so heavy and even though they had the 2L turbo engine thet accelerated like a 1L 8v Fiesta of the time! Also despite the fantastically complicated door hinges it was still hit and miss if you could get in and out when parked in a supermarket car park or similar. One thing I did like was the pilllar-less doors and glass roof, fold them all down/back and you've got about 90% of a Cabriolet complete with fantastic drafts 😁.
Cabins falling apart is a feature of French cars. Never liked them, owned one that spent more time in the shop than with me. Having lived with a Talisman at work in 2018... It also fell apart in the cabin: Leaking sunroof, roof that was lose, sat nav not working, LED headlamps that actually stopped working. What on earth do you have to do to make LED headlamps breaking?!? And no. We had a fleet of them, and the problems was the same in all of them. My friend came to a solution with Renault after endless failues on his Capture for a buy back agreement. Never ever a French car for me again. I still feel sorry for those, who actually paid for a Renault Laguna. That was a true disaster of a car.
This is still a super nice car, and still ahead of it's time, I love it! I have had two of them, the first a V6, which was in very bad condition, later a 2.2. dci which I sold after severe turbo problems. Now, older and wiser I wished I did not sell it.... but now I am happy with my Citroen xm v6 with an automatic gearbox.....
Even when the windows were open, Hubnut’s shirt is not moving about. Not bad. Sharon Stone drove one in Basic Instinct II (which was also a flop). Avantime is over engineered beautiful odd car.
Hi..I really like your videos ,looking at french cars. Looking forward for a video about the citroen ID DS.Since 2 Months thats another car in the collection. Like I mentioned I own a 2.0turbo Avantime as well.Mine has a nasty problem that I have to solve.The windshield leaks on the bottom end so that the body modul was 30% under water when I wanted do drive again. I have cleaned the module reolderd the contacts and coated it with a spray for electronic boards. So I have to solve that..pull out the windshield treat the corrosion ,respray the alloy frame..stick in the windshield and then swap the carpet.
Avanttime was an BMW M1 then. Well well ahead time. Main difference. Only has one marque badge on rump ( tailgate ) …. M1 was sole car ever double BMW badge on rear. Left and right.
I remember these and the Vel.Satis very well. Renault tried to take the brand upmarket with special areas in selected dealership's offering extended test-drives. The only thing they didn't do is create a posh sub brand to market the cars under. You are absolutely right about these not being sporty as the body is not especially rigid but that was never what the Avantime was about. I wish the MK2 three door Mégane I owned in period had the clever door hinge as that car was impossible to get out of in car parks. I often think.of these as a MK3.5 Espace with the styling elements of the two generations. My grandfather owned a brand new MK3 Espace in base trim RT 2.0 Auto.and it felt very refined for the time and the commanding seating position was wonderful and the dash had a huge lower glovebox in the middle and smaller ones in top. The heating controls were just like on the Avantime as well. I've no space or need for either but..... 🤔
avantime was not produced with the intention of producing hundreds of thousands of copies. this is an exclusive class....just like VelSatis....mass production is espace, laguna, megane, clio are simpler and design-wise also simpler to appeal to the majority like for example passat, škoda, bmw, audi and other german cars that are simple in appearance.
4:26 "F4rt, which looks particularly bad written down..." But perhaps that is an apt description of this sound? Regardless, this and the Vel Satis have a special place in my heart.
I really like the Avantime, can't put my finger on why, I just do. Which is a shame, because i will never buy a modern renault, because modern renault. It might make me a cup of tea and surprise me with a pasty and TWO tunnocks caramel wafers when it's new but eventually it will modern renault.
The Avantime is a prime example of adventurous design going t*ts up. It turned out to be the car that nobody wanted. The first time I ever saw one, I couldn't believe how big it actually was.... And, unbelievably, they tried it again with the Vel Satis..... All those little cubbies and storage bins would rattle like hell after a year or two.....
I'm laughing at you thinking there would be a touchscreen display in a vehicle that was produced six years before the iPhone appeared... you will find the satnav controls are the ones located above the multi-changer CD
You've got to applaud whoever was mad enough to approve a Renault Espace Coupé! A mad idea, doomed to fail but such a cool car. Regarding whether you need the V6, I'm sure a stage one map on that turbo engine would give it the same performance as the V6 if not more
Fans of this should check out its starring role in the Children of Men, alongside previous HubNut favourite the Fiat Multipla and frequently mentioned Citroen CX estate.
Her's a new phrase, A-pillars of obscuration. My wife's Xsara Picasso suffers from this phenomenon and by the looks of it this Renault must be the same.
In my experience any hi-tech French car that is more than 5 years old is a disaster waiting to happen, that will empty your bank account and reacquaint you with travelling on buses. Very stylish though - that's what draws you in...
Tried to get Renault to loan/rent me one for my wedding day... If there ever was a car with a door to let a bride with her gown in, it's this one. But I couldn't get an Avantime so settled on a ~1935 car with chauffeur instead, that barely had enough power to get out of the tunnels between the wife's house and the marriage location ;) Also a lovely choice but why would one with a car that old use modern Phillips head screws to keep the interior together :(
How spooky. I watched the Espace video 3 days ago and thought, I wonder if he's done something on the avantime? Of course this hadn't been uploaded at that time!😯
Only the French can make a car like that. Every now and then they make an engineering concept car without quite covering up all the loose ends. Very French. The only thing I can say that they did right was not bring them to the US. That would have been a complete failure.
Used to live near a Renault dealer and remember seeing these and the Vel Satis. Here comes the 21st century thought I, ho hum but they remain striking looking motors. Tailor made cult vehicles.
Just had a peep at what examples are available on Car and Classic and yes, four for sale at reasonable prices. Makes the Citroen C6 look positively padestrian. Great Vid Ian.
Have you reviewed the same gen megane? The back for sure looks similar. The later versions looked more lets say bland. But i remember it was one of the best cars in its class safety wise.
You are 100% incorrect regarding the boot it is enormous… I can pick up my wheelchair and drop it into it without having to fold it at all and then place my electric bike add-on next to it. I spent the last three years looking for a vehicle to replace my and as yet have not found anything that comes remotely close. What you have there is a second rear parcel shelf dropped into the second storage position.
I asked a French colleague of mine why he thought the Avantime was such a failure and his answer was perfect “Sometimes French cars are too French even for the French.”
