So Mad It Bankrupted Its Maker... The Renault Avantime 

I reckon the design language was simply ahead of its time. When released it looked unusual, however now in a carpark full of slab sided SUV's it does not look out of place and would look current, but better then the average SUV.

A friend of mine worked for a Renault dealership around the time the Avantime and Velsatis were released. Renault apparently approached all its distributors and urged them to take on more sales staff to cope with the massive increase in sales that they were expecting due to the release of the new cars. His dealership decided on the basis of the pre-release information that Renault had two great vehicles coming and did just that. Come the launch day everything was prepared for the crowds of people they thought would want to see the new cars but the sales room was virtually empty. Needless to say the newly hired salesman didn't get his expected bonus or even get to stay more than a couple of months before he was let go.

In french, we pronounce "AVANTIME" juste like you, the british

That was an unexpected review, but I can see why you did it and enjoyed the experience. Renault really pushed boundaries at this time and let's not forget that even the original Espace and Scenic had mixed reviews because they were ahead of their time and pre-emptive concepts bravely put into production. The Talbot Matra Rancho was another example from the same Matra stable whose design features emerged in the Discovery 1, years later. I seem to recall that the expectation was that folk who had owned an Espace but who wished to scale down to a similar car with executive, coupe pretensions would naturally gravitate towards the Avantime. How wrong they were but that doesn't mean it was a total failure. Interestingly many manufacturers are playing with a similar idea, for example, the Mercedes GLC? A great review and these Avantimes are gaining in value.

Always thought these were wonderful things. Renault trying to out-weird Citreon. Brilliant

I’m a big fan of Patrick Le Quement’s work from this era - a car designer who was prepared to take risks, backed by a manufacturer who was prepared to back him! Inspiring!!

When the Avantime was launched in Portugal I got a one full day driving and testing it. I was instantly hooked and my children too! So... after 20 years this latest May I finally bought one Avantime 2.0 T to join my youngtimers collection. Just love it!

I always liked the cars designed by the team around Patrick Le Quément. Like a lot of French cars they where a little ahead of their time.

You missed out Matra Bagheera which was 3 seater mid engine sports car. At launch circa 1974 had the lowest production car cd of 0.31 and also had fibre optics in the dashboard (Matra had aerospace division). Late 1970’s Bagheera S upgraded engine to the 1442cc from Talbot Alpine and was replaced by Murena with the bigger 2.2 ltr engined from Solara and that had fully galvanised chassis. Nice cars - all LHD - and were peers to Porsche 924 and Lancia Montecarlo… well worth a review in their own right.

I love how the French make cars...and Renault and Matra have great history. The view from inside is amazing, and I love the lines from the front windshield all the way to the rear end. I don't think it's too big for you...remember the Lexus and Bismerc. If I was living in Europe (especially France), I can't think of a better car to make the experience complete. Another great video. Thanks.

I had both an Avantime and a Vel Satis when they came out. My understanding was that the Avantime was supposed to introduce the public to the new design language in advance of the Megane launch, however they had delays due to the door mechanisms and they came out at the same time. I think they were just too different for peoples taste and they'd rather spend money on something safe and German! I bought mine from a main dealer with delivery miles for just £13k vs. a list price of £28k. Their true habitat is wafting at warp speed down French auto-routes, and I never tired of seeing peoples jaws drop when they saw it. You're right about the wheels; they look way better on the optional 18" wheels. I had to sell it to pay for a stupid kitchen and have regretted it ever since...

Such a beautiful car. I still want one as much as I did when they were new. You feature the most beautiful \ interesting cars on your channel.

A properly French car ♥! Also Matra won Le Mans in 72 with Henri Pescarolo and a certain Graham Hill, their gorgeous little MSC670 used their F1 V12. You must hear one, look it up on RU-vid.

The Avantime reminds me of the Johnny Cab from Total Recall, the Arnie film.

Blindfolded with all badges removed, one would be hard pressed to identify most modern brands. The Avantime though would always be a french car. It has an extra dose of quirkiness.

I have always admired the French car designers, as they always think out of the box in car design! All cars nowadays look mundane now! Thanks Jack for your variety!

I am not usually a big fan of French cars. But there are a few that have my fancy. .. This is one, also the Citroen C6 from the modern cabal. I also love the floaty nature of the best French suspension.

Always been a favourite, but it should be a luxe non-manual. It is actually perfect for an electric vehicle as packaging would suit a BEV

Absolutely love these, always have. When I was at university, I had a weekend job driving brand new Renaults off the car carriers straight from the factory in France. Very occasionally, an Aventime was onboard and I always whenever I saw one, made a quick dash whilst everyone else was trying to seek out any hot Clios. I definitely got them as a concept, but didn't really see how the Vel Satis found its way to production although I'm sure the inclusion of 2 more doors and another seat gave it that usability edge. Matra also made a really interesting 3 seater coupe called the Murena. The last Espace made by Matra was a great looking car, but the Renault designed version lost it all.

I think they only made one big mistake with this car: giving it two doors instead of four made it too impractical. If they had given it four doors, it would have been much more appealing to families who want a more interesting minivan.

Matra are a very interesting organisation... yes they had a joint venture with Ken Tyrrell to run Jackie Stewart in an MS10-Ford DFV which was a fairly conventional set up at the time. What is more interesting was their own racing ventures... particularly their 3.0 Litre V12 engined machines that they ran in the World Sportscar championship and at LeMans. They took victory at LeMans in 1972 with legends Graham Hill and Henri Pescarolo driving. This enabled Hill to win Motorsport's Triple Crown - Indy 500, F1 world championship and LeMans - to this day the only driver ever to do that. The Matra V12 is one of the greatest sounding racing cars ever... and here it is for you to enjoy :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tcPgE40t4dc.html

For who was this car? Well, my aunt had one. she was an business woman, wanted a comfortable , luxury car, but also liked art and design. So she got this instead of the normal Audi or Lexus But there weren't enough people like my aunt. and financial it was a disaster, the Lexus would be worth a lot more after 5 years when it was time to turn it in for something new

It's definitely bizzare two door Frankenstein wtf

You're right that the design of the Avantime still looks contemporary. If it was launched now with an electric drivetrain, people would be fawning over it.

I absolutely love the Avantime. A car before its time.

I owned one, blue with a silver roof, you forget to mention, the button that opens all the windows and sunroofs at one time, a real party trick !!!

If you're going down the route of French and quirky, then maybe one of the Citroën CXs might be worth a go. Especially one of the turbos....

Great review, I knew nothing about Matra's involvement. What a beautifully designed car.

Renault took the Espace in house not back I in house, because the Espace was a Chrysler (Simca) / Matra design but dropped when Peugeot dropped the company when it decided to drop Talbot brand and so retooled to use Renault oily bits instead of Talbot. Production of the first and second generation "plastic" Espace being made by Matra.

Originally, the Avantime concept was to hold Renault Espace and similar MPV buyers who didn't need such big cars after the kids grew up, but enjoyed driving in a high position (new to the period) and the practicality of a minivan compared to conventional sedans. It should be remembered that the Espace, Voyager then Scenic, Nissan Prairie and Zafira enjoyed great commercial success in the mid-1980s and 1990s. Avantime targeted these customers from the middle and upper classes who were now single parents.

I love French cars, but they do rust still where your average, Ford, Vauxhall, Skoda etc don't anymore. This particular Renault must of been well looked after in its early years Jack.

I don't think one should be surprised that the chassis is that good at gobbling up kilometers in comfort and with confidence. It's what the French always were good at. Were the Avantime and the Velsatis built on the same platform?

Quirky and interesting car. Luckily you managed to avoided that clown overtaking in the corner. Nice video. Keep up the good work.

Remember, the Clarkson era Top Gear ADORED the Avantime!

It's rather obvious why it didn't sell, despite what a few people in the comments saying they like the way it looks it's actually hideous, one the most ugly cars I've had the misfortune to see.

An interesting car.

Love all the different cars you have on the channel Jack! Such a big variety of stuff...... Love it bud 👍

Always liked the Avantime, just so French and the design so good. I think there is a hint of 1900's cars with the roof angle at the back but maybe that is just me. 👍

Lovely car, awesome video - I hope you do a Peugeot 407 coupe someday. I miss mine every day.

Mind the Vel Satis too.But that era of Renault was good.Even the Trafic and Kangoo van were fresh and funky,they had a great product line up then....

All great cars are horrible sellers. Car industry makes cars for people that do not like cars in essence, which is a shame really because we ended up with all those SUVs.

Another great video of something different. I can remember these going for £500 - £1000 , usually with a broken windscreen ( MOT failure ) they were a bargain then . Like stocks & shares the skill in spotting future classics is the key , often derided cars of a few years ago are suddenly projected into cult status / icons? When people realise , yes they were downright wacky but , absolutely fabulous.

I love these there so cool and so rare you could go for years and not see one on the road. Love the way the doors open and had that coupe vibe ❤🎉🎉❤. Great review as always

Yeah Harry Dwyer who is creating videos about going around the UK in a small boat just did a whole show on this, towing his dinghy. Le Avantime, une voiture fantastique haha

This in blue and a R21 Turbo in red. Here in Ireland you never see them for sale. C'est magnifique.

A classic example of a good car that no one bought The future of french cars 🚗

Enjoyed this review as I’ve never driven one. The fact it drives OK was a ‘hold the front page’ moment. I remember them at their motor show launch marvelling over the totally over engineered door hinges and wondering if their target market of rich French farmers (with no families) would provide them with enough sales? The answer predictably came, but I’m so glad idiosyncrasies like this exist!

Part of my job here on the French Riviera is to manage second home owners and source what they need. Several British clients have asked me to find an Avantime to use when down here. They are quite difficult to find actually but we did Interesting to see your enthusiasm and theirs for the Avantime since the French don’t really like (and even don’t know about) it! PS Yes the Frenchies pronounce "time" the English way

I wonder if it would have done better if they had marketed it as a Matra? The Rancho had a bit of a following.

If the V6 is anything like the one in the Espace, then it is very thirsty.

Personally I always thought it was a beautiful piece of design. I remember reading that the head of Renault personally thanked each individual buyer!

The Vel Satis with its "balleens". I think for such a car the idea to make it taller made sense, more room for the people at the back. It was commonly used by politicians at the time I'm a big fan of the Avantime. Below the V6 is a turbo 4 which is fine. You could also get it as a pure 4 seaters with 4 armchairs. The doors open like that so you can actually open them when in a parking spot with cars or walls in the way. Matra is well known for making missiles, like the MICA and the Magic. That part of the company, through several mergers, became Airbus group.

A friend of mine who owns a family run Renault Service Centre has one of these.

Well done as always ;-) ...five years ago, I replaced my Busso V6 with the "ugly" Vel Satis. I would have loved to own an Avantime, but couldn't find an affordable one. One day,.... Greetings from Germany

It's the Espace Shooting brake no one asked for but I love it. I'd love to see a shooting brake version of their current Initiale Paris Espace. Would be an insane luxury alternative to all these SUV Coupes.

Y'all get so much cooler cars than we do in the US. This is one of the more-compelling modern Renault's I've seen. I rented an Espace while visiting friends in Nice years ago, and wasn't impressed at all. I will say the French seem unencumbered by convention when it comes to designing cars...

Owned two . Wonderful cars

Absolutely love these cars so different from anything else on the road , my friends dad has 2 of these

Fantastic car, I love it!

I wish they had shortened the doors by 8" and added a small rear ' suicide ' doors (as per rx8,or bmw i3 ) to give it more bonkers looks and a dollop more usability, when it was designed and signed off.

I always do a pull when I do a road test 🤣 I need to grow up

Its pronounced Renault Avant -time ( = avant -Garde = Ahead of it's time ) - So Happy u have brought that incredible weird but innovative car this time .

I was working in France in 2001-2002 when Renault had the rush of blood to the head that produced the Avantime. It excited a certain amount of curiosity and admiration (the French have a soft spot for “creative and quirky, but deeply impractical”) but hardly anyone bought it. I asked a colleague (a little tongue in cheek) who was in the process of changing his company car, if he didn’t fancy an Avantime, and got the classic response of “Sadly, some things are just too French, even for the French.”

I hope Jack gets a lot of revenue from this video, given the number of commercial interruptions that RU-vid opted to insert...... 🙄

One of my favourite cars ever ,absolutely nuts

Brakes - RU-vidr Harry Dwyer recently had brake issues with his Aventime, and posted a video about getting them sorted.

The French version of the Pontiac Aztec.

I owned an Aventime for 11 years - without doubt it is the most exciting car I have ever owned. I was sad to see it go and have considered buying another, but I can not justify a second vehicle (especially a 20 yr old one). It was tragic that it did not sell, it deserved a much greater ownership.

A loaf of bread maybe? Small cars for small roads! Ok i guess? Good show mate1

Allways loved the look of this car !

Aventine,more like le chacon.well ugly to me but each to his own and at least it’s different 😊

🇬🇧British loose theirs BRITISH brands cars. 🇫🇷French CARS steel exist like Renault, Alpine, Peugeot, Citroën, DS, Ligier, Micro car, Aixiam, De la Chapelle, Bugatti.

the door hinges are a work of art... more cars should have them for getting out of carparks

I always liked the quirky design of the Avantime. I believe the mechanicals were based on the Mk1 Espace. The only downside is that you'd need quite a wide garage to be able to open even just the driver's door.

How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go, Jack? The French have always made interesting cars, as you'll know from your BX and Peugeots. Citroen's total insistence on reinventing the (single spoke steering) wheel, hydropneumatic suspension, and utterly b@tsh!t crazy rotating drum speedo that MOVES AROUND A STATIONARY NEEDLE, for no apparent reason other than a very gallic belief in France's own engineering superiority relative to other nations, make many French cars well worth looking at. I'd love to see you review a Citroen C6. Mad rear end styling that still somehow looks like a space ship, coupled with an extremely civilised 270 bhp twin turbo V6 diesel. Again, the car buying British public ignored them in favour of more obvious, but less interesting German marques. I think if you know, you know..... Interestingly, the rumour is that architects prefer French cars for that very reason...

I still remember when it came out I was like "what were they thinking?" But I agree that it aged gracefully and makes for a one of a kind classic.

Olivier Bouly ( who accidentally killed the sales of the Magna/ Diamante in Australia,) and Patrick Le Quément drank from a similar font of high glass to low painted steel ratios. Ford was doing similar stuff in the New Edge area. That process needed timing back to suit how the cars clinic to the masses. 2001-2003 was the time that car purchases were increasingly made by ladies, and so rear visibility, parking and having small plastic areas on the hood were important. At that time, sedan and large three-doors that weren't speciality coupes...bombed. Royally.

In my dream, lottery win garage, there would be a special section for mad French cars. Avantime V6. Vel Satis V6. An R16 TX. CX GTi Turbo. An original DS. A Matra Rancho. Alpine GTA. Slightly more conventional, a 5 GT Turbo, and a Clio 182. And an expert mechanic to make them perfect. Great video 😀

The thing that really bankrupted Matra automobiles is Renault cancelling the Espace contract when the version 4 came into the market. The Avantime is just the final nail on the coffin because Renault should have given the green light to the M72 (small road buggy that could be driven by 16 y/o) that would have allowed way more production numbers because of its probable sales price (from 5000 to 10000€, so 4 to 8 times cheaper than an Avantime).

Better quality because it is made by Matra? Uhhmm I own an Avantime V6 and have the comparison to a Safrane Baccara and a VelSatis. The Renaults are built better than the matra Product. Less squeeking or rattling, better ride quality and a better quality overall. The Avantime feels like a design concept when it comes to built quality. The VelSatis is two classes above. But I still love mine. When you search for "Special Cars Germany" you can See a videos of mine

I’m no good with cars that have a windscreen miles away from the driver, buttresses with triangular windows at the side and a dashboard the depth of a conference table. I didn’t like sitting in the Espace at the 1990 Motor Show, I didn’t like driving the less dramatic Astra ‘J’ I owned in 2017, and I wouldn’t touch any car styled like that with a barge pole ever again. In the 70s I used to buy custom car magazines, and some people who put V8s in Ford Populars and Morris Minors would drive them from where the back seat used to be, and I used to wonder how the hell they could drive like that. More and more I think the bulky, high waistline, small window styling of modern cars, that demands driver aids like parking sensors and cameras, are at least partly responsible for falling driving standards and people who dither by not taking their car through gaps in traffic, when from behind I can see they can fit. I’ve got a number of old car magazines and back in the 60s70s contemporary road testers often complained if you couldn’t see the end of the boot lid from the driving seat when looking backwards to reverse!

Always liked the Avantime by its looks. It's just pure French quirkyness. And maybe because of the roads in France or just their taste, they always hit the right spot in stiffness/softness with handling and comfort. Thinking of it, with the sunroof and all the space you have in an Avantime, wouldn't it be the perfect retro car to be EV'ed with Tesla Motors (and Brembo brakes)? Solar panel(s) on the roof for those extra bonus miles and go. 😃👍

I disagree on the Coupé/SUV crossover part. It is rather a crossover of Coupé and Van. The more interesting thing is what it's probably meant to be and to do: It's a really comfortable car obviously meant to cover long distances at a fairly rapid pace carrying two to four people. And it does it exceptionally well. Which actually is kind of the realm of a GT.

I plead guilty not appreciating it at the time. Now I think it's a beautiful vehicle but they didn't find the use case. It's an Espace disguising itself as a modern sculpture. They should try to redo it retro electric today (like the great job done for the new 🔌 R5) & target vanlifers.

I think the Avantime has stood the test of time in terms of design and I'm not surprised that it handles well. Matra are legendary in motor racing circles, not only for winning the F1 World Championship in 1969, they were very successful in F3 and F2 in the 1960s and also won the Le Mans 24 Hours Race for three consecutive years from 1972-74, so they certainly knew how to construct a good chassis.

Let's be honest we all miss the time when car companies had their character and weren't just copy from each other...and if you wanna travel this awesome and original Avantime is gonna be way better than a lot of huge, fat, ugly SUVs. But I have the feeling I am the only one has this idea since outside I just see SUVs!

The French they have made the most unusual cars ever and the Aventine ticks all the boxes the design inside and out is quirky in a good way the big question is what is it most cars you can but inta a category but this car greated its own category

I read reports of the bankruptcy in 2003, but Matra Automobile survived as Matra Manufacturing and Services for at least another decade. Among other things it manufactured EU market GEM electric vehicles. Currently it seems to be now Matra/ MGF Easy Bike.

I have to say, Jack seems quite blinkered on this topic: the fact that the car only has two doors sems to put it into some rigid category ("it's a Coupe!") which just informs everything else that he thinks! The Avantime and Vel Satis were brilliant designs, with a superb combination of a smooth, quiet, luxurious ride, tons of interior space for four, and a relatively compact footprint - and decent fuel economy! They were favorably compared with the Mercedes S-class of the day, f'crissakes! What killed the cars was poor reliability and a relatively high price - not because it was 'bonkers'... Just listen to the recording of this review: the background noise-level is almost non-existent! There's almost no road noise; no noise when going over bumps, and no noise from the drivetrain.

Why you make a wonderful reviw now when the vehicle is old. When it was new and Renault needed the cash...THE REVIEWS REVIEWS WERE SHOCKING

Jack, I watch all your videos and enjoy the way you sometimes unusually articulate views on interest vehicles. Here comes the ‘but’ …. that Renault Avantime or what ever it was, was to be honest, it was just outright Fugly! Please get back to doing project work, especially the Inflenzo.

I'm under the impression you misunderstand this car quite profoundly. It's a cruiser, it's to chill and relax, chat with your passangers and enjoy the view, it has nothing to do with a coupe and nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a SUV - it's a cruiser minivan. airy, open, comfortable, relaxed and roomy for four full grown people. I think this goal explains pretty much every design decision made!

Interesting car. The presenter overlooks the fact that the Avantime design heavily influenced, and preceded, the very successful Renault Espace IV design as well as the rear end of the even more successful Renault Megane II design (selling a million cars within three years). It was NOT the other way around. So while the Avantime may have contributed to bankrupting Matra, the design hugely boosted Renault.

Still more elegant and timeless than all that SUV stupidity..

I find this car tobe fucking ugly. I mean, the front part looks halfway good. But after the hood ended, things rapidly turn southwards. The kind of bulbous passanger cabin, the angle of how it connects to the crooked rear of the car, the rear itself... It is just an abomination for me. And I am quite happy that this ugly thing was not a hit with the customers. And the same applies to the Vel Satis.

Oh and yes: The V6 is the Best engine in that car. What you should do: Remove the pre cats and replace the Otter cats with 200 cell metall race cats. The V6 growls more and loves to rev even more over 3000. AND you preserve your engine from an early death. Furthermore you use less fuel

Just one thing about the number of seats… In the UK (home for me) we are fixated on larger numbers, 3 bedroom house beats 2 bedroom house and 4 bedroom house beats them all. No notice is taken of the “size” of those rooms and how uninhabitable the smallest bedroom is. This car flies against that foolishness by giving four wondrously comfortable seats rather than a 3 person bench with shoulders cramped across the back. I’ve had five seater cars for a life time and probably I can can count on one hand the number of times they have had 5 persons in it. And then no more than fifty times have I had 4 in it. It’s all those having bag loads of kids and then complaining they don’t have any cash - or “aren’t school fees expensive”. Sadly a great car let down by the population who can’t see beyond families……

I really hate it when these « car guys » Take 2 ½ facts and repeat them 100 times without telling ANYTHING interesting… stopped after 3:48

The back side isn't her best shape.... The Vel Satis looks way better - But our Ford S-Max Ecoboost has the same power and is quicker, with better road holding and has more versatile space.

nah, go for the vel satis, it's got a 3.5V6 is out of the nissan 350Z, if you are going to bankrupt yourself at the petrol pump, do it in style.... ahh, the ranchero, lovely looking car, but rotted beyond repair at 4yrs old, i kid you not. pantograph hinges is the correct name i believe keep up the excellent work young man