Thank you for this sobering discussion. We have a long hard road ahead, and the talk of revenge, retribution and war terrifies me. But it helps to hear there are ways we can work for a just peace for both the Israeli and Palestinian peoples. However long that takes…💔
Why does it terrify you? Retribution has been American policy for centuries. We started two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with that justification. Look how well that turned out! Nobody will be talking about the price of this retribution.
@andrew_owens7680 I opposed both the wars of choice America waged in Afghanistan and Iraq. And elsewhere across time and geographic boundaries. I’m not sure how my initial comment gave you the impression that I favor retribution. I do not.
And what of the Palestinian youth who are being radicalized by the Israeli retaliatory campaign and will become supporters and/or members of Hamas, or its successors.
How could they see and know everything to come?? And how much resources are you willing to spend to know everything?? This all takes people away from the real terror...... Slippery floors, when you least expect it BAM GONE!!!
While there may have been an Israeli intelligence failure, there was unfounded Israeli optimism that genocidal jihadist Hamas was becoming more pragmatic and peaceful.
Exactly, they should just accept there situation, stop resisting, submit and become "pragmatic and peaceful". If they do that its guaranteed there situation will improve. Because the more powerful side has a good reputation for honesty and integrity.......😐 @@benqurayza7872
I listen to as many different sides of a story as possible to learn and this long-running "story" about Israel has been one of the most bizarre ones based on her PTSD from WWII .. I work with clients who have PtSD from their history, too .. from being enslaved by the whites and by the whites stealing their homeland .. (Indigenous and African-American) .. but neither one of those groups complain and murder as much as the Jews in Israel .. and no other group complains as much about their persecution .. I just finished listening to Norman Finkelsten before listening to this guy .. who didn't mention the long term impact of being controlled by Israel since 1948 ... It's sad / frustrating / complex .. but no children / womyn / families should be dying / being killed
Look up background of hamas political wing leadership, most of them are raised in refuges camps that exist bc of Palestin partition and nakbah. This podcast is american media. History never influence others way of life except their political affiliation.
Good episode, though I wish Al had brought someone on representing the Palestinian side of the debate, it would have made it seem a bit more balanced. There's only 2 options, either one state with equal rights for all or a complete redo of the map with a 2-State solution with an equal 50/50 split of land, assets and resources. I've always been in favor of a home for all people but to have such a lopsided split, the UN needs to go in and have a UN resolution 181, 2.0.
The Arabs have always rejected a two-state solution. They rejected the UN's partition plan for Palestine west of the Jordan River in 1947. They rejected subsequent good faith proposals from Barak and Olmert. They allowed jihadists to operate from all countries surrounding Israel.
There will never be a 1SS. I can tell you virtually no Jews in Israel are for that, and there would be huge civil war almost instantly. They are two ppl with two totally different visions on the past, present, and future. Anyone suggesting it is an option, basically has outed themselves as not understanding the region or just trying to back door a dismantling of the Jewish state. Personally, I prefer those who come right out and say they are for erasure of Israel: it’s a clarifying point in the debate/discussion. I agree a 2SS makes sense. What’s possible is 100% of Gaza and around 89% of the West Bank w/ land swaps from the Arab triangle to make up every acre lost from the WB. If the Arab world wants to pour resources into the nascent Arab entity, have at it. No army and lots of 3rd party troops in the Jordan valley.
24:39 Hamas, Yassin (from Muslim Brotherhood) around 1987 was supported by Israel as a counterweight to PLO When the blowback from this displeased, Yassin was assassinated by two Hellfire missiles from an Apache helicopter in 2004. All of this clever planning by Israel about creating a new status in Gaza has to face the evident failure of the last 50 years. The usual excuse for this is to cite Palestinian corruption and incompetence, but Israelis effectively own a prison population without basic human rights.
Thanks for this informative and sobering interview Mr.Franklin and Mr.Millar. Brilliantly thoughtful and realistic! Wish the leaders on both sides can hear it!
The leaders have their own agenda and dont give a rats ass about what the world sees and wants. I've heard the Isrselis interviewed on the street and they talk like the NaZis who killed them. PALESTINIANS ARE ANIMALS, ETC. The latest...hospital done by Israel!!!
We are all of one mother, Jews/Arabs are on the same branch of Her Tree & share the same God whose books enjoin love and forgiveness of anything and anyone. Miracle us now dear Gods 🙏
@marwar819 Hamas is the Palestine branch of the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood. It's Covenant calls for the annihilation of Israel and all the Jewish people. It was elected by the people of Gaza probably in response to PLO corruption and tyranny.
@@marwar819What occupation? Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005. The PA is self-governing since the Oslo Accords. Jordan, which is majority west Bank Palestinian, was part of the original Palestinian Mandate.
"What occupation?" lol..I wish I could deny reality that easily. I've known about Israel's horrible treatment of Palestinians for as long as I can remember. How can so many people not know about this?
An important moment (s) in global history to expose humanities frailty towards itself. There are a plethora of brilliant minds and hearts ready and willing to take the momentum of nihilism to its opposite. We need to focus on those particular warriors to the same degree we give voice to despair and to that end, both of you, through this discussion, have helped. In particular Al Franken. Thank you.
Wars have been won and lost throughout history. Ultimately one side loses the ability or will to fight. The question is how long will it take for this conflict to reach that point.
WW2 ended when the leaders of Germany and Japan accepted defeat to finally stop the killing of their people. It's not clear Hamas has any such concern for the lives of their own people.
the need for revenge crushes peace and obliterates reason. once you and your enemy get locked into the revenge cycle both sides are doomed by their own willful blindness to their own self destruction in what they've deliberately chosen to embrace.
I think as dark as this discussions assessment is, the reality is that it is actually far darker. 1. No matter what action Israel takes, it will be facing damning criticism from western countries and from Islamic states. It’s impossible to prevent, particularly when different propaganda engines have vested interests in using this to fuel a message that is outside Israel’s control. 2. Be it fair or not, the instigators see this as a holy war. If one side is fighting a holy war and the other is doing a counter insurgency, you will never find peace as both means and measures won’t be matched. 3. The whole world is talking about how to handle the inhabitants of Gaza. Some want to pretend they can be a peaceful self governing state. That’s a fantasy that leads to more Israelis dying. No Arab nation will take them in as displaced refugees. Israel can’t incorporate them into their own population, because that’s a recipe for terrorist attacks. There’s no place for them. Just like there’s no way of filtering the good from the bad or to assimilate them. Its an oil and water situation here. 4. Should Israel rule? Should the UN rule? Should an elected Palestinian rule? No. No. No. None can rule that mess. It isn’t administrable. The people have been radicalized in a decentralized manner and hold a litany of grudges and misgivings. Its a terrorist breeding ground cesspit wrapped in the trappings of civilian “refugees”. The dark reality is that there are zero tools in the liberal democracy’s playbook which can properly address this and bring a lasting resolution here. Zero. There is a tried and true solution to this problem. One that has been used many times throughout history. One the Jews are intimately familiar with. The only problem, is that it’s a tool in the barbaric autocrat’s playbook. The kind Genghis Khan, Joseph Stalin, Hitler, and any number of Feudal ruler’s have used throughout history. Its what China is doing to Uyghurs, and Russia has done with Ukrainian children, and the US did during “manifest destiny” when it won the west and practically destroyed every Native American society. Ethnic cleansing. Genocide. Displacement. Wholesale destruction and death. It’s horrific, but it works. And Iran is eating some popcorn laughing their asses off right now. Its got the West in checkmate. Either the west wont do shit to resolve the problem (again) with some system that’s doomed to fail from conception. Or the West publicly proceeds to be complete hypocrites to their core values and sours every person’s mouth to their image, including their own peoples.
When applying Mark Twain's quote "Familiarity breeds contempt - and children" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it can be interpreted in a couple of ways. First, the "familiarity breeds contempt" part underscores how prolonged proximity and direct interaction between Israelis and Palestinians can generate animosity, mistrust, and hostility. Over time, as both sides become more familiar with each other's grievances and perspectives, it can exacerbate negative feelings, deepen divisions, and escalate conflict. The "and children" component suggests that in addition to the persistent tensions, the prolonged proximity and shared space can also lead to population growth. As both Israeli and Palestinian communities continue to coexist in the same region, the increasing population can introduce new dynamics and complexities to the conflict, such as demographic shifts, demands for resources, and competition for land. This interpretation highlights the notion that while prolonged proximity and interaction between Israelis and Palestinians can foster understanding and cooperation, it can also intensify conflict and generate additional challenges. It underscores the need to address the roots of the conflict and work towards finding a just and lasting resolution that addresses both the immediate issues and the future generations impacted by the conflict.
A one state solution is the best option. Not as Israel, but as a state that unifies and protects all parties involved. I would give it a name that expresses it's purpose. "Harmony" in Arabic "انسجام" (Ainsijam). The state would be created with a new Constition that establishes equal rights, protections, and responsibilities for all inhabitants.
If only.. the US ....war=profit. Israel/ AIPAC runs Washington and the US. If anyone in congress questions the Zionists they will be looking for a job. The CHRISTIAN TALIBAN that has taken over all of the red stares supports the CHOSEN PEOPLE and they can't get anything done, cant get along and that's a good thing. Imagine the damage if the could. You're witnessing the end of this empire. Just as Rome fell over the expense of a huge military, we will also go broke. ( we already are)😮
Agreed. Ethnostates are racist and have no place in the modern world. We must reform governments to not have racist laws of exclusion or inclusion like Israel currently does, to its shame.
The Jews in Israel who want to end apartheid and extend civil rights to the indigenous population can stay. The rest don't matter because they're fascists and they can either leave or deal with it. It really is that simple.
That is what is meant by “from the river to the sea”. One democratic Palestinian state for Muslims, Jews and Christians. It is what the British, the Muslim and Christan Palestinians wanted right from the beginning. After all Israel has done to create Israel you think it would agree to gIving up Israel for one Palestine for all?
0:12 bio 2:40 indi judiciary 4:37 Bibi gone inside a year 4:52 intel and ops failures 16:47 ISL: 30% PIJ rockets misfire 20:33 Drones to neutralise auto machine guns and 21:02 mins sensors. 21:13. doctrine if distinction
Israel must accept that part of its citizenry is Arab. There is only a one state solution. Those Arab citizens must have equal justice or this conflict will never end.
Just wondering ....how would you react if bandits came in and stole 85% of your land and property and then controlled and dictated how you lived on the remaining 15% supposedly left to you to live on?
They could easily do that if they would back away from theocracy and become an actual secular state. In a secular state, religion plays no part. On the other side, they seem to be coming closer to Saudi Arabia in their love of theocracy. It is likely that Saudi Arabia will move towards secularism before Israel will.
They already have. Approximately 20% of Israeli citizens are non-Jewish Arabs. (In the US, the population is about 14% African-American, if you want something to compare to.) As citizens, they vote, attend college, become doctors, lawyers, scholars, etc. They do military service. One of them, an EMT, gave his life to try to help other Israelis at the music festival. He was murdered by Hamas. Oh yes, another thing Arab citizens of Israel can do: they can be openly LGBTQ+. They talk about what would happen to them if they tried to be open in Gaza or the occupied territories. Ask why Arafat walked away from a deal for a two-state solution at the last minute. Smart money says that he saw that he’d be a terrorist target, and also that his own role as a professional provocateur would be over. He betrayed his people, again. (Ask why the Jordanians expelled him and the PLO from their country.) Much of the signage in Israel is in both Hebrew and Arabic. Jews and Arabs march together to protest the current government (Netanyahu will be gone from office within a year). Most Jewish Israelis are now partly or completely descended from Jews who came from communities in Southwest Asia and North Africa, whose parents and grandparents spoke/speak Arabic or Judeo-Arabic. Culturally, they share a lot with Arabs: musical styles, dance, food, etc. The question is: when will Arabs accept Jews back among them? We are even genetic cousins, Jews and Palestinians. The studies have been done. But try being a Jew who wants to move to a Palestinian area but not live in a Jewish settlement. Or who wants to return to their family’s home in Egypt? No way. How about asking some of those questions? Speaking of apartheid.
I am a South African an grew up under Apartheid and what I see on the ground in Israel and the occupied Palestinian areas is apartheid; you cannot ecplain it differently.
It's completely dishonest to consider only 2% of history. Frustrated by confusing & contradictory information, I researched the history of the land we call Israel and Palestine today. Who lived on it first? Israelites lived on land 1,658 years before the ancestors of Palestinians. Palestinian ancestral land is the Arabian Peninsula. ‘Palestinian’ is a modern word from the 20th century. "Syria Palaestina” was the name given by the Romans to Judea after the Bar Kochba revolt, although the name's origins go back even further, perhaps being based on Philistine. Only the Canaanites and Philistine predate the Israelites. The descendants of Canaanites and Philistine is complex and not entirely resolved. The Israelites arrived C1300 BCE and established the Israelite Kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The Kingdom of Israel fell to the Assyrians in 722 BC, while the Kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Next the land changed hands many times, until Arab Muslims conquered it in 638 CE and established an Islamic Caliphate. The Arab population, increasingly identifying as Palestinian particularly in the 20th century, has been a significant part of the social and cultural fabric of the area, especially during the periods of Islamic rule and the Ottoman Empire. A timeline: Canaanite Period (c. 3000 - 1200 BCE): The earliest known inhabitants were Canaanites, a Semitic-speaking people. Philistine Period (c. 1175 - 604 BCE): Philistines settled along the coastal areas, mostly in the Gaza Strip. Israelite Kingdoms (c. 1020 - 586 BCE): The Israelites, also a Semitic-speaking people, established the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Assyrian and Babylonian Periods (722 - 539 BCE): Assyrians and Babylonians conquered the region. Persian Period (539 - 332 BCE): Persia conquered the Babylonian empire, including this area. The Persians later reinstated Israel as a country. Hellenistic Period (332 - 167 BCE): Conquest by Alexander the Great, followed by the Ptolemaic and Seleucid rules. Hasmonean Kingdom (167 - 37 BCE): Jewish rule restored after the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucids. Roman Period (63 BCE - 324 CE): The area became a part of the Roman Empire, with Israel remaining a kingdom within that empire, with Rome appointing the king, until AD 44. Bar Kochba Period (132 CE - 136 CE): Simon bar Kochba let a Jewish revolt and for a short time revived Jewish sovereignty over land, until it was brutally crushed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian, who renamed Judea as Syria Palaestina to remove any trace of Jewish connection to the land. Byzantine Period (324 - 638 CE): Christian rule under the Byzantine Empire. Islamic Caliphate Era (638 CE - 1099 CE): Arab Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 CE, introducing Arab rule and Islamic culture to the region. Arabic gradually replaced Aramaic and Greek as the dominant language. Crusader Period (1099 - 1187 CE): European Christians captured Jerusalem and established the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Ayyubid and Mamluk Periods (1187 - 1516 CE): Saladin, a Kurdish Muslim leader, defeated the Crusaders. The Mamluks, who were of various ethnicities including Turkic and Circassian, succeeded the Ayyubids. Ottoman Period (1516 - 1917 CE): The Ottoman Turks controlled the region, and the Arab populace lived under Ottoman rule. British Mandate (1917 - 1948 CE): British control after World War I. Increased Jewish immigration leads to tensions between Jews and Arabs. State of Israel (1948 - Present): Established in 1948, leading to ongoing conflicts with Arab Palestinians. The ‘West Bank' is in fact ancient Judea, the land of the Jews. The 'Philistines' lived along the southwest coastline, nowhere near the Judean hills. But with all this, there has never been a Palestinian state.
I realize the US are bystanders, however the $ amount contributed toward Israel sovreignty might be better with strings attached. At least with buy-in towards humane refugee treatment
The US, Europe (and Israel) contributed millions over the years to Arab refugee relief. A United Nations welfare agency UNRWA is exclusively devoted to the Palestinians.
Send TM meditation instructors and thc over? drop gummies and shrooms? . I am not kidding. The hate just rolls around, traumatized generation after traumatized generation;/// They seem locked in the perpetual recycling of grief, victim-hood, hurt and goals of getting even? May a sudden wave of enlightenment and peace wash over them💖❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤍💟Parents need to stop teaching their children hate and divisiveness.. it is literally killing them! 🕊☮😥Love your channel Al... Al Franken;)))
Is Israel a good neighbor to the Palestinian people? Someone who steals more and more of your land and can cut off water, food and power with the flick of a switch? Let's see how long this comment is allowed to stay up.
Neither were the Apache and the Sioux and a dozen other tribes we only have rivers and cities to remember their cultures by. Geronimo and his band of 40 people posed an existential threat.
the world (UN) voted to grant some land for israel .. for arabs that was unacceptable and it's been violence ever since .. native americans did get reservation lands just as israel got some land too ..@@andrew_owens7680
Familiarity breeds contempt... and children. That maxim doesn't apply to the Palestinians and Israelis because they are categorically NOT intermarrying. Mr. Miller is mistaking Twain's connotations of 'Familiarity' as tantamount to 'Proximity' [of economic interactions between Israelis and Palestinians]. I plead with all those of good will to re-inject into rational discourse the "3 State Solution". Its not like the Gaza strip has forgotten what it is like to be administered by Cairo. The Hashemites are the closest thing to "Monarchal Moderates" as the region could possibly get! A three state solution between the 3 American allies of the region is NOT beyond imagination, gentlemen.
I have a couple of very simple questions: How was Hamas able to construct such an extensive tunnel network right under the nose of Isreal? How was Hamas able to gather such an extensive cache of rockets, and small arms right under the nose of Isreal?
They've had about 20 years to do it and Israeli intelligence seems limited to drones and parameter fence surveillance. That and they're completely pompous when it comes to the strategic capabilities of Palestinians.
They aren’t occupying it, lol. They can’t just March in every week and destroy the tunnels. The international left who be even more apoplectic than they are now. I personally favor and overwhelming response approach. Gaza doesn’t need to remain to be a population center if it continually wreaks programs on its neighbor. That has nothing to do with killing non-Hamas members to be clear.
I can hear the worry, not only with folks podcasts but in social media as well. I, the ever suspicion type person, wonder what other mayhem putin is planning to cover his own evil.
Very serious and thoughtful interview. I wish that the podcast on the ukraine war would have been the same. It is hurtful to hear jokes about the suffering of ukrainians, glad that the war in Israel was treated with the respect it deserves.
Man. Where is the hope, sanity, and humanity? Everything America does from this point forward needs to focus on the Two State Solution. Otherwise we will continue to spend billions while innocent humans die.
it's dishonest to call this the "Israel-Hamas War" This conflict started in 1948 when the refugees were created. Forced from their homes and farms under threat of death. And that conflict has never ended, and it's not going to end so long as that injustice remains.
they were not forced from their homes .. they were told to leave so that 5 armies would drive the jews into the sea .. it didn't work and they were left to languish and used as pawns..
Commenter, what a simplistic and error-filled assertion. You write as though everything began in ‘48, and that there weren’t multiple Arab states that had armies poised on the legal UN borders of Israel at the time you mention. Or that if the Palestinians (really Jordan at that point) had accepted the original partition offer - or ANY partition offer since - there’d already be a Palestinian state. And that from the 1920s onward, Jews of Arab and North African lands who’d lived there for centuries were repeatedly attacked by their “hosts,” tortured, murdered, r@ped, expelled, robbed of their homes and livelihoods to the tune of approximately 800,000 who became refugees. Who were forbidden to ever return. From Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, Syria -some of them that to this day don’t allow Jews to live there, or even visit. And they couldn’t tolerate the thought that a formerly Muslim land could be returned to the Jews (read about the Islamic conquest sometime). Their leaders, including Hamas, don’t care about Palestinian lives. Hamas has a handbook. Their own people are set up to be fodder for their vision of a “pure” Islamic Middle East. Go ahead and take the myopic view. Keep in mind that if Israel saw retribution as the only response, Gaza would be completely flattened by now. But you enjoy your armchair quarterbacking, it’s what people who think this is a team sport tend to do best.
It started when Hamas slaughtered hundreds of innocent victims. It’s interesting to hear all of this talk of “Freedom” from Palestine. Do conservative Arab Islamists believe in freedom when the oppression of women and gay people is codified by culture and religion?
Today's events could be described as biblical, we all know how that turns out. Blessed is the name, heaven help us. I trust our leaders ,give then courage and wisdom.
This podcast is irritating; they know nothing about Israel and Palestine. They must educate themself if they want to talk about Israel and Palestine. Their racism is clear.
It's completely dishonest to consider only 2% of history. Frustrated by confusing & contradictory information, I researched the history of the land we call Israel and Palestine today. Who lived on it first? Israelites lived on land 1,658 years before the ancestors of Palestinians. Palestinian ancestral land is the Arabian Peninsula. ‘Palestinian’ is a modern word from the 20th century. "Syria Palaestina” was the name given by the Romans to Judea after the Bar Kochba revolt, although the name's origins go back even further, perhaps being based on Philistine. Only the Canaanites and Philistine predate the Israelites. The descendants of Canaanites and Philistine is complex and not entirely resolved. The Israelites arrived C1300 BCE and established the Israelite Kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The Kingdom of Israel fell to the Assyrians in 722 BC, while the Kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. Next the land changed hands many times, until Arab Muslims conquered it in 638 CE and established an Islamic Caliphate. The Arab population, increasingly identifying as Palestinian particularly in the 20th century, has been a significant part of the social and cultural fabric of the area, especially during the periods of Islamic rule and the Ottoman Empire. A timeline: Canaanite Period (c. 3000 - 1200 BCE): The earliest known inhabitants were Canaanites, a Semitic-speaking people. Philistine Period (c. 1175 - 604 BCE): Philistines settled along the coastal areas, mostly in the Gaza Strip. Israelite Kingdoms (c. 1020 - 586 BCE): The Israelites, also a Semitic-speaking people, established the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Assyrian and Babylonian Periods (722 - 539 BCE): Assyrians and Babylonians conquered the region. Persian Period (539 - 332 BCE): Persia conquered the Babylonian empire, including this area. The Persians later reinstated Israel as a country. Hellenistic Period (332 - 167 BCE): Conquest by Alexander the Great, followed by the Ptolemaic and Seleucid rules. Hasmonean Kingdom (167 - 37 BCE): Jewish rule restored after the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucids. Roman Period (63 BCE - 324 CE): The area became a part of the Roman Empire, with Israel remaining a kingdom within that empire, with Rome appointing the king, until AD 44. Bar Kochba Period (132 CE - 136 CE): Simon bar Kochba let a Jewish revolt and for a short time revived Jewish sovereignty over land, until it was brutally crushed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian, who renamed Judea as Syria Palaestina to remove any trace of Jewish connection to the land. Byzantine Period (324 - 638 CE): Christian rule under the Byzantine Empire. Islamic Caliphate Era (638 CE - 1099 CE): Arab Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 CE, introducing Arab rule and Islamic culture to the region. Arabic gradually replaced Aramaic and Greek as the dominant language. Crusader Period (1099 - 1187 CE): European Christians captured Jerusalem and established the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Ayyubid and Mamluk Periods (1187 - 1516 CE): Saladin, a Kurdish Muslim leader, defeated the Crusaders. The Mamluks, who were of various ethnicities including Turkic and Circassian, succeeded the Ayyubids. Ottoman Period (1516 - 1917 CE): The Ottoman Turks controlled the region, and the Arab populace lived under Ottoman rule. British Mandate (1917 - 1948 CE): British control after World War I. Increased Jewish immigration leads to tensions between Jews and Arabs. State of Israel (1948 - Present): Established in 1948, leading to ongoing conflicts with Arab Palestinians. The ‘West Bank' is in fact ancient Judea, the land of the Jews. The 'Philistines' lived along the southwest coastline, nowhere near the Judean hills. But with all this, there has never been a Palestinian state.
The HELL with the idiotic Ukraine war ... how great would it have been to have Russia on our side in this like they were in Afghanistan. What a massive US f-up.
I don't see this situation as an intelligence or imagination failure, but as an awareness failure. Israel, a very successful agricultural, arms, tech, security powerhouse, became comfortable with maintaining an indefinite detention of millions of people without human rights. Israelis should not have been shocked that those living in an Israeli prison with an indefinite term of detention and no process to accede to the status of the rest of the world population might be brewing elements bent on upending this stasis.
I much rather listen to Aaron's ramblings than cable news! As revealed in the Quran (Hamas/Iranian edition) by the dear Prophet Mohammed, all blessings on his memory: "Verily, thou shall defend the faith by killing, raping, and kidnapping children who dance and sing for they are hated by Allah." Oh, for the good old centuries when the Ottoman Empire peacefully ruled the region, and diverse religions, ethnic groups, and languages flourished.
Well, there hasn't been an election since Hamas came to power and over half of the population is under 18. But, really does it matter? Hamas wrote a charter which says they want to destroy the Zionist movement. Therefore, since every Jew on earth is a theocrat who supports Zionism, that is akin to saying they want to kill every Jew on earth. Please, when you read this, don't think you want to kill all Palestinians. Because that is a thought crime, which Israel has used to justify killing as many Palestinians as they please. After all, the Palestinians thought that about the Jews, according to Likud. Likud also accredits a Palestinian with inventing the Holocaust.
@@coreyham3753 The solution is a secular state of Israel where religion is neutral. That wouldn't be Zionism. Zionism leads to theocracy and theocracy always means that only one religion can reign supreme. Zionism is the problem, secularism is the solution.
You can't convert an open-air prison into a state. The definition of a state is a parcel of land that can secure itself and which has control over its airspace and its food supply and its borders and to some extent its economy. Palestine by definition can never be any of those things any more than Guantanamo can ever be more than an international disgrace.
There never was a 2 state solution except in the minds of the American negotiators & as a sincere hope of the Palestinians. The Zionists never truly considered it as is evidenced by the continual settlement & confiscation of Palestinian land which has never stopped even during “Peace” negotiations. It was something the Zionists floated as a distraction while recruiting Jewish settlers to increase their population on the ground & subdivided Palestinian lands to ensure there would be no continuity of those lands to form a singular contiguous Palestinian state.
Haven’t the Israelis told Palestinians to go to the south because they were fighting Hamas? My whole life I’ve heard about peace talks & the 2-state solution including the initial 1948 partition of the land by Britain. Every time, the Palestinians said no.
mr miller the "doctrine of distinction" gets tossed out the door when the perpetrators of the conflict use their citizenry as human shields and the usa, who started two wars after 9/11, one totally illegal and the other fought half assed because there wasnt cool things to show being blown up for american audiences...has no right to lecture israel how to prosecute the war and can we please stop referring to any gazan as a "refugee" the palestinians are the only people on the planet granted generational refugee status unrwa needs to be shut down and the concept of generation refugee status for the palestinian must end.
End occupation and colonization that started in 1948. History is there and younger generations see Occupation for what it is despite propaganda. You can't be oppressor and victim for long before you are called out. One state with equal rights regardless of religion is how future is.
@watchyt1789 they had their own nation and they chose instead to join several other Arabian Nations and attack israel. And they lost. And they did it again. And then groups of them attacked and killed Israeli civilians. And then they voted a terrorist organization to be the leader of their government. Annette organization used Aid money to buy weapons and tore up a donated Water Treatment Plant to make missiles. The gazans hatred has made their own hell. But this time they killed babies with premeditation and Malice which is murder. And an act of war. You can't commit an act of war and then say "oh, I take that back. "
Hamas hasn't done a single thing that Russia didn't do in Ukraine. They haven't visited upon Israelis a fraction of what China has done to the Uighurs or in Tibet. They have treated the Israelis lovingly compared to the genocide of the Rohingyas in Myanmar. Furthermore, going back to the days of IRA terrorism or the Tamil Tigers, their acts of terror are in no ways unique. We still make some diplomatic gestures to nations that wave around nuclear warheads at us. Besides, Hamas is no longer having elections and half the population of Gaza is under 18. It would seem that your choice is only to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians while pretending to take the moral high ground. It make me ill to have to pay you for that privilege.
@@andrew_owens7680 killing 5000 out of a population of 2 million is not ethnic cleansing. Look at the figures for French German Italian and British civilian losses during World War ii. Saying it's ethnic cleansing is the same kind of Lying by exaggeration that saying 500 people died at the hospital when it looks like it may have been 20 and saying that it was an Israeli attack when it looks like it was actually a failed Hamas rocket. Israel stated policy is not genocide and Hamas stated policy is genocide.
@@andrew_owens7680Yeah, Hamas was so loving that they kidnapped innocent people, used victims’ Facebook accounts to live stream their deaths to their families.
