Ableton Push 3 - My thoughts after a month of using it. 

Thanks! Yeah, you’re right about the lite version! Getting the suite version might be much to ask for but I think you’re totally right- the standard version would do the trick.

@@AccurateBeats The stand alone should come it it's own version of ableton running inside the unit, with support for max for live, and probably some of the sound collection of suite, as well as all the devices. However, that doesn't mean that the customer should be able to also run an equivalent version in their computer, so the included license could be limited to intro even, as long as the stand alone unit featured a more complete solution.

It's silly

you get a huge discount. if i buy push 3 i can get ableton 11 suite for 237 chf. not that bad

if live suite was included then those who already own live (probably a lot of the push 3 target audience) would essentially be buying the push at a higher price then those who don't (they would have spent a significantly more amount of money to get the same thing).

@@midi_input yeah but what if push came with something like ableton 12 that would have been win win for every buyer

@@Kimfvhte2 Yep

Makes total sense! I also think that Push 2 will stay supported for a long time. If it works, it works 😀

He meant arrangement mode.

Much appreciated!

Thank you for saying so! It’s great to hear from someone who’s really into Live saying that it’s an exciting upgrade! I’m excited about it too even though I’m using MPC’s more than anything else these days. I think that the future will bring some really cool upgrades for P3 too! Thanks for the support!

I decided to not go deep into these things in my first video since I wasn’t sure how to think about everything. Im just trying to be honest and I don’t mean to bash on Ableton too hard either. A fair amount of criticism is always needed 😀 I don’t know how money works on this level but the MPC X se is also pretty pricey… Everything gets more expensive these days but I kinda think people would’ve been a bit less upset here if Live 11 Suite was included and the price was USD 1200 or something like that. I think it’s cool that we’re getting an option like this and the standalone capability on something with an included battery will never be sold for cheap. Thanks for your perspective! Much appreciated!

You have a very sloppy use of the word abuse. Is this what has become of us. Anything you don't like is abuse or abusive? Really, it's not that critical. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It isn't like you get cancer when you get a Push 3. Ableton is probably thinking the same of you. I don't even really like Ableton Live like that but I find myself defending them against hyperbolic people. Nobody is being abused. It's all choice and free will. It's production tools, not food or shelter.

I bought it, I love it, well worth the money, hmm what else can we get for the same money? That’s as portable and full standalone and syncs perfectly back with my desktop daw. And it’s build to last so upgrades and accessories will be coming in the future , maybe like touchscreen apps which sync and help with arrangement view, audio editing and general things that will be nice to pull around with our fingers. I’m currently using my iPad with ableton link and imagine the possibility’s of live performance standalone. You can route midi to an interface connected to iPad so it can be controlled like an external instrument. It has massive potential and you can tell it was designed with expansion in mind. It’s future proof tech. Which is a great idea.

Thanks! A lot of people are saying that they’ll wait for an upgrade kit or waiting for the firmware to develop further. Maybe that a smart thing to do… But the concept of upgradeability is awsome! I guess a bottleneck will be that the processor need to run without active cooling. Who knows where the future will take us? I’m looking forward to this for sure

Super valuable comment! Thank you! I’m really glad for you! Getting something that changes and fixes ones workflow is the best feeling ever! Sounds like you’re all set! Gogogo!

is it possible to use the Linnstrument with an ipad ?

I think you can but its better if you use it on a proper computer or synth that support all the features that Linnstrument have, also its pricy but amazing device, Roger Linn its a fucking genious. @@HelmHell

⁠@@HelmHell yes it is.

Me too. Makes it unusable. 2k is stupid. An iPad M1 and Logic makes more sense.

Exactly that's why I will get just the controller. It looks like it's about twenty years away to get what I want.

Thanks for this very helpful comment! I think you’re right! This is new territory for them and with their track record of adding/ fixing things with updates we could probably expect great improvements over time! The cooling must be a factor here. I didn’t think of that but it makes total sense to me! Waiting for some updates and giving the product time to grow into its own shoes sounds like a great way to think about this. Thanks again for the comment! I really hope people gets to see this!

@@AccurateBeats When you actually look up that Intel i3 CPU, it becomes clear that it was never designed to be passively cooled in the first place. So this is already a big technical challenge they had to overcome. Especially because Ableton is not a Samsung or an Apple. Designing mobile computing hardware and basically a dedicated mobile (audio) OS to work perfectly together has never been their core business. So as they learn and iterate I definitely expect hardware performance improvements coming in. Not only when it comes to stability but also elements like boot-up time and battery life will likely improve over time.

Many companies release Gen 1 products with way less bugs. It's unacceptable. I'm software developer with many years experience shipping consumer and custom solutions. What ableton has done is super sloppy. That aside I will have a good look at the Push 3 in perhaps a year.

@@Drrolfski actually the cooling isn't well designed on the push. The heatzink is connected to the bottom plate, and the processing unit to the bottom plate. It would have made much more sense to connect the CPU directly to the heatzink. While the CPU is TDP12-28W, I'm not sure we know how it is clocked, it could be underclocked. Also, there has been products with up to i7 ultra low voltage CPUs, being passively cooled in tablet enclosures. The strange thing here is that it is using a intel cpu, since it runs linux. I initially thought that it perhaps was running a Windows Compact Embedded solution or what they call it these days... basically a custom install of windows with only necessary part of the OS. But since it is running linux, ARM would have been an obvious choice, with better performance per watt, TDP and per dollar. The RAM limitation makes some sense, as with a lower end CPU, the CPU will hit its limits at some point, so it might not be able to run project that would need much more RAM anyway, so the CPU will always in relation to the type of thing one is working will, impact the maximum of useable ram, not sure though, if it would not have been able to make use of more RAM. A big price issue is that an Macbook Air m1, can be had for the price different between the stand alone version and the controller version, and that will outperform the stand alone version, even though it also comes with 8GB of RAM. The stand alone Push also has really limited battery-time, had they just implemented USB-C power, the combination of Macbook Air M1 and push controller, would have given the user better batterytimes as well. The pricing of the controller unit, is a bit high, but mostly because it is to tied to ableton, had they integrated operation with other DAWs, it would have been reasonably priced, considering the MPE pads, and the display. The sound interface is not that good, unfortunately, so they could have kept the price down, unless they somehow unlocks an overbridge like feature where the sound interface in the push interacts directly with ablton and does not act like an interface, thus enabling users to expand their I/O using the connectors on the push. Windows does not support aggregated sound devices, and it isn't problem free in Mac OS, so it really does rely on a special solution, and since it is ableton, they should be able to build that in to ableton live at least. So at this time, the stand alone really doesn't make sense. And the controller version is priced a bit high, and the built in sound interface at this point does little to justify the price.

Push 3 is a Gen 1 product?...it literally has a 3 in the name. It's the 3rd one. "You would pay more for individual parts ..." Eh...maybe. Chances are you already have a computer, the rest of the stuff is pretty easy to mitigate cost on. And even if you had to purchase a computer you can look at it as...it's a computer...You're getting more use out of it. (Even a top mac mini is less.) And let's face it, very few people are probably brand new to music, and computers, and starting out buying a Push 3. You've already sunk a lot of cost into music. You even point out you'll stick with the MPC Live 2...So the cost for the Push 3, compared to what you can already do and have isn't worth it to you. There isn't enough gain to justify it. I like the expression pad but...I'm already tripping over midi controllers and the Push3 isn't really going to fill a hole or be some missing piece I need. ...I do get the price though...and I often find price comparisons not quite fair. I think they could eek it down a tiny bit but it's not falling into a holy sh1t how much?!?!?1 for me.

Hmm, I see this a little different from my personal view: 1. First off: The only song mode that I liked to use was the one on the M+. I hated the chaining on the MPCs and I never found myself wanting to mess with the one on the Force, mostly because I don't always want to perform into a song and I don't like using the touchscreen that much. And the only reason I exported stems, was to import them into a DAW to finalize the song. So skipping that, and just opening the project in a DAW to finalize it, is (for me) a very nice solution that completely fixes my need for a song mode, as I never really finished a song completely in a box, other than this Jamuary-Jams. For me personally, I prefer to go that "open inside Ableton" route, because I tend to rearrange parts, change settings, sometimes want to change modulation etc. during mixing, and it is really really hard doing that with pre-rendered stems. But I can totally see, that other people have other workflows. 2. I don't know a single Groovebox/DAW-In-A-Box that comes with the idea of Instrument-Racks at all. While I think you might be able to save a Synth together with FX on the M+, I am quite sure you cannot on the MPCs. On the P3 you are able to create complex Device chains. The only thing you will not be able to do without a Computer is using that parallel stuff, that can be done with Racks. While I agree, that it would be nice to have, it is nothing that other boxes provide. And while M+ might be able to chain devices in a single preset, you are not able to really sound design as on any other box, so depending on your point of view, this might even be worse.

​@@jkirchheimerYou're wrong about the MPC. It's possible to save synth presets and even keygroups along with up to four insert effects. If you can't do that on the Push 3, that's a first in this category and arguably a huge omission.

@@sinewaymusic oh, somehow I must have missed that totally (Owning a Force since launch...) :( Thanks for pointing that out!

Yeah, M+ has the best song mode but it’s still not completely as straight forward as I think Abletons version of “arranger view” would be. I doubt that we’ll ever see a linear based workflow on a standalone unit that compares to a daw on a computer. Bu that’s just me

@@jkirchheimer for 2 you can save any plugin and it’s associated fx as a program on any Akai box. But I appreciate your thoughts on opening in Ableton for sure!

It really is! From a marketing perspective though… I think they would be better off by just including the standard version of Live.

You can make it linear by making one long sequence for example 120 bars and put it in Track view its almost like ableton arrangement mode. MPC is more inspiring to me but Ableton has alot more features, I mean alooot more.

Fair point as well!

think it should be easy for Ableton to give those who already have a license a discount like they already do for Live when you buy a higher tier or a new version. I mean they do sell everything Ableton exclusively anyway. So no license-info needs to be put into any box anyway.

Great input, thanks!

One of the most intellectually honest people on RU-vid? What??! 😀 That should be my next tattoo or something. Thanks a lot!

@@AccurateBeats it's not hyperbole. You are a proper thinker and so creative. At least that's my perspective.... But I'm a degenerate. :)

The price is definitely not fair. At most it should be 1000 bucks for the standalone version and 700 for the controller version because they do not include the full version of the Ableton software

@@JEFFMAN90 they give you intro with a controller. They really only discount the full software during the holidays or if you’re a student. If you don’t own the software already, the price is pretty high for the full on suite and controller.

I guess that’s it - pretty much a no brainer for hardcore Live users. The song mode on M+ is great but I kinda think a proper integration of lives arranger view would be even more straight forward. Who knows if we’ll ever get a linear daw-like workflow on anything that’s not a daw on a computer.

​​@@AccurateBeatsSynthstrom Deluge has that linear daw-like timeline with unlimited clips length, so it is totally possible.

i have deluge and love it. theres almost nothing you cant do on deluge. i still want a push3 for easy integration with ableton i just will never get standalone. its just like M+ to me and that equals lacking on a ton of shit. @@immers_music

Please search any MPE device. They are expensive but Ableton included it into the new Push at a discounted price imo.

@@johnnyparker2128 Been making music without MPE. I know how to use a pitch and mod wheel. I don’t need MPE now that’s it’s here. I don’t care.

@@matthewgaines10 I'm enjoying it

Hey! Yeah, you’re touching a topic where I’ve chosen to just do what I do without really covering it on the channel. I think there’s a bit too much elitism going on in the world of turntablism and scratching to really benefit the culture and I don’t want to be a part of it. I’m a pretty bad scratch dj, I’m aware of that and I’m totally ok with it. But I also know I’m not really the right guy to try to educate in the art form. It’s a field where technical skill is highly valued and even tough I love it and really appreciate a good scratch dj - I think it’s ok to keep it simple and stick to the basics for the most part. I’m actually a bit surprised that I don’t get more hate on the channel for my poor skills but also kinda happy about it 😀 I love the sound of scratching but I couldn’t care less about the elitism around it. Watch some tutorials on the basics and feel free to develop your own style from there. As with everything else - spending time practicing is crucial. Sorry for the long winded answer!

No

Thanks! I just use a couple of Sony Zv-e10. One of them with a sigma 16mm 1.4 lens. I do put a bit of work into my lighting though… I find that to make the biggest change overall

@@AccurateBeats Right on thank you so much for the reply. I've seen your older video on how you do your videos and was unsure how much it had changed. I would like to get into making some videos and am forgetting how important lighting is.

Yeah that’s right. The multiple different versions of the software is a bit confusing. And not just to me 😜

Yeah that’s right. The multiple different versions of the software is a bit confusing. And not just to me 😜

Haha! Didn’t even think of that!

I would have emailed you, if I had an address.

Yeah you could. I guess that why they’ve done it this way… Its great for people that already has a license.

I was thinking the same thing. Bigger processors needs more airflow. More components more audio interference possible. Still dope though!

Even a Ryzen processor would’ve been better. Better power efficiency (less heat and better performance)

Linear arranger mode / song mode vs next pattern mode chained together

Yeah, the entire m4l stuff is foreign to me but I’ve seen some pretty cool solutions and features coming out of it. And even though that’s cool and all, it’s definitely not for everyone and I think you’re right in everything you said. Push 3 needs to become 100% stable first, which it’s not today. At that point, I think it’s time for the nerds to go ham :)

Oh? I’m not trying to please anyone with this video. Definitely not Ableton. I though I was pretty critical in this one but I’ll give it to you as straight up as I can: I think it’s a bad move to not include (at least) the Standard version of Live with push 3. The intro version is better than lite (as people has pointed out) but still… I think something better should’ve been included. I think they will keep adding features to push 3 for a while that should’ve been there from day one. For example an arranger view. I wouldn’t say that it’s an unfinished product but it does seem a little bit rushed out. It wasn’t very stabile with the first firmware versions - not good. My knowledge around computer parts, the heat they output and what type of cooling is needed as well as pricing for parts, the process of designing, developing and manufacturing a device like this isn’t deep enough for me to accurately have a well thought through opinion about it. I see push 3 as a high tier device, just like the MPC X or Maschine+ and I think the price seems kinda comparable. I think the storage space is a problem though… Especially since it doesn’t have an SD card slot. Ehhh… What else? In terms of the capabilities of the unit… I don’t have a lot of criticism to give. Some menu diving will always be needed on a device like this but it’s a bit frustrating at times as a new push user. I can’t say that push 3 is a bad device. I don’t think it is but that has nothing to do with me wanting to please Ableton… It has its pros and cons, like anything else. I think it is pretty much comparable to something like the newer MPC’s in the state that it’s in. The future might make it better or worse. I think MPE is cool but a bit overrated. It works well on the unit though. Also: My first video (the brief overview and beat making session) was sponsored by Ableton… This video isn’t. The unit is a loaner and I don’t have a problem with upsetting Ableton. If the unit was trash… I would’ve said so. Tried to clear some thing out. If you want anything else, feel free to ask :)

Nope, I ended up sending it back after the project. I’ve thought about it since then but now with logic 11 - I can’t really see a good reason to switch daw

@AccurateBeats I've always wanted to get into logic because of all the rave reviews, but I just can't get on with apples OS. I already have to know windows and Linux, so another os is too much haha

This is one of the cool thing about living right now. We’re getting so many different options and ways to do things. I’m playing around with Logic on the iPad too and it’s really powerful! Long time Push users will probably get a lot out of push 3 but I probably won’t leave my MPC’s for either the iPad or push 3. That’s what’s beautiful about it - Right or wrong doesn’t apply :) Thanks!

As someone who's using iPads for years now for different scenarios (DJing, Producing, Sampling). iPads are cool gears, the software is also cool, but using touch screens in any kind of live situation is pure hell and demands much more attention. And yes, you can use controllers but sometimes happens that you can't map some really important functions what you want to use, or the AUv3 plugin isn't supporting X controller's Y's knob. It's a bit half baked.

I’ve been working on a video on this exact topic for a few weeks now. I want to live the iPad for music making but I just can’t. Mostly because of the touch screen. Controllers are one thing but I’d want something as tightly integrated with the software as Maschine is for the computer… If there was a thing on that level - I’d be 100% down

Value is relative when you want a tactile music-making experience almost like playing an instrument, which the iPad definitely is not. People are willing to pay the price for such an experience, especially on their favorite music-making platform.

@@AccurateBeats I would watch that video tho! I think the iOS platform in general deserves some professional critics because the whole DAW/Controller situation is nowhere near to the hype.

Dude these thoughts are so bang on and pretty much what I said on launch. Push 3 is a huge disappointment. Ableton have really misfired on this one!

Yeah, that’s also true. It doesn’t really compare to all the MPE stuff that Push offers but it does add another layer of expression!

That and then being so expensive for nothing. 😶

At launch*

@AccurateBeats appreciate you prompt and genuinity, Big ups.

Exactly it's just not value for money at all.

Seems like an MVP to me. (Minimum Viable Product)