Unfortunately, many Orthodox Christians, who had been influenced by the so-called “Western world teaching on hell”, have misconceptions about hell as well. The Divine Comedy of Dante - the Italian poet and his very graphic or picturesque depiction of Hell is being used as the basis for many films and narrations on the topic.
I didn’t read Dante’s Divine comedy until after I became Orthodox. I can say though that it is simultaneously both flawed and an amazing piece of literature.
Dante's symbolism has a proper place, it's not bad. Actual problem for the west is what came from protestant deformation and the way puritanical views took off from the puritanical foundation of the U.S. Being the U.S. became the most powerful country, it has permeated every cultural view everywhere, thus their puritanical substrate affecting everywhere, our views on heaven and hell as well.
@@joachimjustinmorgan4851 Symbolically I think Dante's inferno makes a lot of sense, even from the orthodox view as each layer of hell is a clear symbolic depiction of people completely consumed and slaves to their own passions. The problem is people who read it too literally think of it primarily as a tortuous pit
One thing that disturbs me personally is the sadistic glee I've seen some pastors and preacher get with their interpretations of hell. They think that it's a place where everyone they hate personally will be sent by God out of a sadistic revenge fantasy. This definition makes more sense and aligns with Gods character. I personally am a man from a protestant background and seek the true church of Jesus Christ. Please pray for me that I find the true church, not circuses, not cults, not ignorance and cringe, but the one where the Lord Himself and His Word are present.
I hope you will soon start going to an Orthodox Church and begin to see the beauty that it has had unchanged from the beginning. It stands alone in these things.
I am crying from joy . All these teachings were not accesible to anyone 50 years ago. The filokalia and books of Holy Fathers where in monasteries carefully protected. Now at our disposal. Thank God. The devil tried to burn those books. There is a story about it in gerontikon.
Saint Isaac the syrian in homilies 27 (if i remember correct) he says ”Gods presence is like hellfire to demons and unbelievers” Gods Infinite love is like fire to those who rejects him. Hell was and have never been created but comes from gods energy, gods love when rejected. “What hurts more? Rejecting the person that so loves you”
Also, as i have learned from my humble Orthodox journey so far, the Church continues to pray for the souls of our fathers, brothers and sisters in Christ, who have passed away as well as our relatives, in our private prayers. We have hope that through our prayers and acts of kindness in their memory and honor, the state of their souls can be made better, by the grace of God.
You’re right, that’s exactly what we believe. But this change is possible only before the Second Glorious Coming of our Lord. The video is about the “after” His Last Judgement. Because only then hell is possible in full just like the Heavens.
@OrthodoxTalks I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but I love the Eastern Orthodox Church. My church has so much in common with Eastern Orthodox church doctrines including our understanding of hell. Your beliefs on this topic and many other topics are so similar to my church. And like the Orthodox Church we also believe that all of this has to be done before the resurrection of the dead. My church prays on behalf of the dead too. We actually build temples for this very purpose. We absolutely agree with you that Christ descended to hell to bring salvation to the captive spirits there. Jesus Christ destroyed the gates of hell.
Thank you Father. This answers some questions I have had. But also confirms some thoughts I had prior to attending an Orthodox Church. After reading Daniel 12:2 "Many who have been long dead and buried will wake up, some to eternal life, others to eternal shame", I thought that hell does not yet exist yet. It is also a verse that has helped me strengthen my faith. All I had to do is think about my most shameful times, and never being able to leave that state of being. It's not something I ever want to experience. I thank our Lord everyday for the chance to live eternally with Him in Heaven. ☦🙏
Very interesting comment. I suppose we can get addicted to shame and prefer it to receiving God's forgiveness and love, thinking that our view of ourselves is more important than what God thinks of us which is only in love.
It was an excellent video, thank you from the Catholic Christian. Ever since I read my first Homily of st. John Chrysostom, I have been fascinated by the views of the Eastern Fathers and their emphasis on the love of God. It is something I surely need in my spiritual life and understanding of God, and you explained it beautifully. May God bless us all.
rethinking hell ministry has some good information on church history showing that many of the church father's believed in conditionalism/annhilationism - that is, that eternal life is conditional upon faith in Christ, with the alternative being a second death (e.g. a second, but final and everlasting literal death).
Father, Forgive me. Can you please discuss the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? Also, please discuss Christ’s teaching on the wide and narrow paths. Blessed Pascha to all my brothers and sisters in Christ ☦️ IC XC NIKA
@Ephesians_6_12 actually they don't, they teach a semi Annihilation concept. And the torment isn't torture, it's more like a contentful Bliss like a lobotomy. So it is effectively annihilation. Everyone else believes the body is resurrected and then tortured...
Thank you for this. I have an old kjv reference edition and the footnotes on the sermon on the mount make it clear in this case that the first usage of the word for hell was "gehenna" which seems to describe the difference between the fire that consumes, contrasted against the fire that "did not consume" found in exodus. The NIV ruined this contrast by oversimplification of the language.
Keep in mind, the demons aren't material beings. There isn't a literal, material fire. Fire is analogical language. That's not to say that it's not a bad thing or anything. The fire is an analogy because that's just how humans talk.
Eternal punishment is an inevitable consequence of creation of beings with free will. If we are truly free, then unfortunately, we are free to reject God.
@@fifthdimensional Not only would you then learn nothing (and therefore be liable to fall again later; whose to say you won't make the same mistake again? This is impossible because we will be purified and the eternal kingdom will not allow sin) - this contradicts God's nature of justice. All will be held accountable for their actions, especially in causing suffering against others. Our freedom to sin demands justice for those who have been wronged, and so there must be stakes. Just like to have good you need evil to exist, to have justice you need consequences to exist.
Father, bless! This is a great introduction to a challenging and misunderstood topic. And it is a concept I struggle with. If I desire the love of God greatly, but feel isolated from my fellow man, is salvation possible? If I can't reconcile with other humans, how will I do with the creator?
Thank you for the comment. Regarding what you asked about reconciliation I can say two things. First, sometimes people misunderstand reconciliation and as a result of this they suffer their entire life. Briefly put reconciliation becomes possible when we are able to wish the other party come to their senses and turn to God for forgiveness. Reconciliation cannot happen if we are in anger. Second, I’m think that if we make honest effort to reconcile or keep looking for the possibility to reconcile, God might be able to use His grace to heal us.
The GOD CHRIST made the Bigbang and GOD made Evolution. All religions believe that everyone gets out of HELL. However the BIBLE says that. Intense Pain is inflicted on people in HELL FIRE 🔥FOREVER. And that only By believing in The GOD CHRIST Soon Forever. Then people have the chance of going to HEAVEN. The Bible says it's from GOD CHRIST. Everybody knows CHRIST. Cause GOD makes himself known. As said in the Bible.
May we all have your blessings Father Ivan☦️ So what the Last Judgement actually is? Is it meant by God so He has the reason to punish the unrepentant ones?
The Last Judgment is about the glory of the Lord and His never ending love. Yes, God knew that not all will love Him, but He respects the freedom of their choice. Still, He shines His love onto them. If somebody loves you but you don’t love that person in return does that person punish you by their love or are you irritated by your attitude to them? The suffering of the people after the second coming of the Lord is not God’s punishment but their perception of His love. I have another video on my channel explaining why the Last Judgment is possible: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zv0LeRY-vvk.html
8:58 Catholic and Coptic teaching is that God accepts your rejection and so he prepared something where you don't have to suffer God's presence, because he is not a r*pist. But this still sucks, because not seeing God sucks. Or in the sun analogy: For those who don't like the sunlight, God grew a tree with shadow for those people, this shadow makes it less painful but still sucks, because life without seeing God is not that great.
"all creatures will want God, will love God, every heart will by God be reconciled, turn, repent. " Every knee, every heart will bow and confess Jesus as their lord ". God reconciles AL before or after death. " All beings in heaven earth under earth WILL be reconciled to God ". There is only one sentence in bible that can be interpreted as no hope after death. But it ONLY says " afttdeath, judgement ". But we are told the verdict is forgiveness
@@SarahHodgins If you had watched the video you wouldn't have had to ask this question. The teachings put forth in the video contradict the Apostles' Creed.
Thank you so much for your encouraging words! I’m an OCA (Orthodox Church in America) priest and serve in Christ the Savior Orthodox Cathedral in Toronto (sobortoronto.ca)
Imagine a God who has perfect knowledge that one of his creations (who never asked to be created, mind you) will end up in never-ending conscious torment, yet he still chooses to create them. Would that God not be a sadistic monster, unparalled in human history and imagination? Yet, sadly, this is the version of hell (and God) accepted by millions and millions of Christians. I, for one, cannot accept it. The only version of hell that I can square with the notion of a just and loving God is one in which hell is real, but it's temporary (whatever that may mean in a non-temporal reality) and corrective. God's will is that all will come to know him, which leads me to ask, "Will God's will be achieved or will it not?" I believe it will. Each of us is the prodigal son, and each of us will eventually come to our senses and head home, in this life or the next. That's my hope.
Can someone please help answer. If hell isn’t a created place as such, and we are the ones that send ourselves to hell or create it for ourselves (as this video claims), then why does the scripture say in Matt 10:28 to fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell. Doesn’t this imply that it is Him (God?) doing the destroying and not us? So confused 😐
Thank you for your question! I mentioned in the video that there are different names for what was translated into English as hell. For instance, the verse you brought up say “hell” but in the Greek Bible we find “Gehenna.” Jesus refers to the particular place or area outside the walls of Jerusalem where something was burning all the time (sometimes pagan sacrifices and sometimes just the garbage). So, definitely He is not literally referring to that fiery pit. St. Augustine of Hippo (430 AD) explains why Jesus says about the destruction of body and soul in hell: “Yet it is rightly called the death of the soul, because it does not live of God; and the death of the body, because though man does not cease to feel, yet because this his feeling has neither pleasure nor health, but is a pain and a punishment, it is better named death than life.” Yes, His love will be the power that sinners will not be able to stand. This state is called Gehenna or hell, where their suffering cannot be called as life, as St. Augustine of Hippo noted.
@@OrthodoxTalks Did you just stated that: "His love will be the power that sinners can not stand."? What do read in your prayer book or when celebrating about yourself, that you are a sinner, no ... ? I hope from the bottom of my heart, that sinners will stand His, not only stand but enjoy ✊🏼♥️
Is it possible that those who may not hold to the Creed, but nevertheless strive to improve in goodness and kindness towards their neighbor, will also be brought into God's kingdom on the last Day?
There is a good answer to your question in Romans 2:1-16. Plus, it is up to God to render judgement, no matter what we think of people. All we can do is to pray for all people that we come across in our lives.
lol first of all, it is referenced in the Bible books YOU don't approve of and second, the Orthodox Church, which is the only Church that has not changed since the time of the Apostles, doesn't rely on the heresy "sola scriptura" because Luther made that one up.
I think we need a separate video on the topic of the “aerial toll houses”. And for now I just want to say that on the general “timeline” (if I may use figure of speech) this understanding of the soul’s journey after departure from the body is prior to the Last Judgment. The video is about the “after”
I have a question, I am a little confused but I think I am getting closer, if the conclusion of hell is seperation from God, how does that tie into hell being the love of God or God being a consuming fire, if hell is away from the consuming fire of God (seperation from God) How is God hell when your near him when it also makes the claim of hell being seperated from him. Are there two different kinds of hells? It sounds like a close out or close in are both hells? Thank you.
Hell is more like a state of being of those people that reject God’s love on a permanent basis. Hell separates people from God’s love. That’s God’s close presence feels as torments in the burning fire. God can never be hell! Hell is peoples response to God’s love.
How are you people able to cope with this? I don't understand. An eternity of suffering. Every time I contemplate this I'm brought to panicked mess. It's horrendous. It can not be true. Or else all of reality is a cosmic nightmare. A finite life leads to infinite consequences, does that even make sense logically? This has always been why I've secretly hoped Christianity is false and there's something better out there than this, or that we have something completely misunderstood. This splits me apart and makes me hate reality. When I was 7 or so my father told me that hell was like being stuck in a tiny cramped oven, I thought of the one in our kitchen. The heat is all the way on, forever and ever and ever and ever with no hope or comfort ever again. How can you say such a thing? Do you have a deficit of empathy or understanding of what it's like to be human? I just can not believe it, something must be wrong. I do try and be good, I fail a lot, I want to be with a loving God, I'm not a spectacular person in any way, I think I'm pretty normal. But I almost can't bring myself to belong with a faith that thinks this. How is anyone able to smile in their life if they actually believe that eternal suffering is a possibility in their future? Do you just half believe it, do you often forget? Because every time I reconsider Christianity I just remember hell and am paralysed. I'm not trying to attack anyone. But this makes me doubt that Jesus was even real because all his Churches seem to agree on this. Why would God let us do this to ourselves, even if it's in our deepest hearts it must be a mistake, it shouldn't be that way, can't it be fixed?
The Orthodox Church teaches that we learn to love God while being in unity with Him. Those infinite consequences are not because God “wants” them to be or to continue nonstop but because some of the people do not want to be with Him. Those that don’t want (voluntarily) His presence will experience what we call “hell” simply because there will be no way to hide from the love of God. It’s like someone would keep loving you while you can’t stand that person. Literal understanding of hell as an actual place of fire by some Christians came later in the West.
Oh sweetheart! I know this was written long ago, and perhaps since then you have found some sense of peace since you wrote this comment, but I absolutely understand this deep sense of terror. Before I found the Orthodox Church, I was so crippled by this fear that it tore me away from Christianity. What kind of God would create man just to torment them? You phrased my childhood fears so elegantly… finite life leads to infinite consequences. I am no teacher, so I say this with no authority, but it seems that only in the west is a hell like this taught. There is much argument, but I believe the way that father describes the experience of hell is much more accurate. I hope you find peace, and if Christianity calls your name, I pray you find the Orthodox Church ❤ ☦️ God is all loving, he would not condemn his creations to torture
I totally understand where you are coming from...I take comfort in the scripture that says God is not willing that any should perish..2 Peter3:9. To me that shows that God will do everything and anything in His power to save us. I am not certain in my theology on hell, but believe that God is a loving God and would not allow anyone to suffer punishment if it were in His power to prevent it...before or possibly ? after death. Men have free will though and if they are adamant in their rejection of God, even after God has done all to save and free them, ......then what ?
Gregory of Nyssa whom you quote ADAMANTLY taught ALL are ultimately saved. He was never reproved for it nor ever considered a heretic. He wrote thousands of words proving that God saves ALL people not some nor many
If your child stands on a bridge wanting to jump. Do you say " oh go ahead that's your choice " ? No you drag them off against their will. That's love. Then you talk sense and love them back to sanity and to ability to love themselves. God violates no one's free will but by rather wins our happily willing love. All those who think that some are lost think that God VIOLATES the will of ALL the list by forcing them to bow the knee " every knee bow, tongue confess" while those like Gregory of Nyssa who believe ALL are saved also believe every knee bows willingly unforced and that God wins their love, creating in all a bowing of heart not just knee creating a happy humble heart in AKL
@@sakamotosan1887 ISIAIH says we have ALL got lost like sheep Jesus says I will seek find and save ALL lost sheep and I will bring ALL people to myself and I will save ALL I bring. JESUS PROMISES to save ALL people
Those who believe that some are lost think that God violates the will of all the lost forcing them to bow the knee. God wins our love ALL hearts will come to love adore and bow the heart not just knee. If your child is ion a bridge ready to jump a loving parent doesn't say " oh go ahead it's your choice." No they pull the child off against their will then love them back to self love and sanity
Well, in a round about way, the 5th ecumenical council anathematized Origen specifically on his Universalism position, so technically the church was specific enough in its understanding of hell to say that Origen was wrong, right?
You raised a very interesting topic. There are still intellectual battles about which of the teachings of Origen were anathematized by the Fathers of the Fifth Ecumenical council. I agree that it was his teaching on Apokatastasis or Universal salvation. But still, there is so much the theologians and the scholars of the Church Law have to look into because for instance St. Gregory of Nyssa being a “disciple” of Origen was never checked for inconsistency on the same matter. So, this is still a point to debate on, I suppose. But, I guess, it can be viewed as a “round about way” as you put it to the Church’s view on Hell. However, as you know, clear explanation or doctrine has never been put together by the Church.
I am an annialationist because I'm convinced this is the plain teaching of scripture...especially the teaching of Jesus. Is this position compatible with Orthodoxy?
I don’t think so. The Orthodox Church has never taught about total destruction of the souls of sinners or even evil spirits after the Second coming of the Lord. Although there were few supporters of this idea the Orthodox Church rejected that teaching. Instead, the Orthodox Church believes in the resurrection of all the dead. “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” - John 5:28-29
Something seems strange about sinners creating hell. Why does god allow them to create hell, but prevent them from creating utopia (tower of babel, etc.)? Overall can sinners great spiritual realms? Why can’t they create another heaven?
Good question, the tower of babel was not a literal tower to heaven to fight God. This is a newer protestant (not that those people inherently bad) are idea similar to the idea of western Idea of hell. The tower of babel was likely a ziggurat which is a pagan religious building. The reason why people cannot create a utopian society is due to their spiritual illness. You can see this throughout history and even now. Some think a utopian society would be one of pure capitalism or pure communism or the perfect republic or the perfect libertarian society. No kingdom lasts forever. And Anway why would the Übermensch care about something like a perfect heaven for most amount people to have the most pleasure, when they can take control of their lives now and neglect morality to get to the top? In your worldview there is no duty to make a perfect heaven for the many why not make one now for the few? One objection would be why did God create evil then? Evil is not created like how shadow is simply lack of light. Sin is simply a failure or moving away from what is Good. Sorry if this sounded harsh but this is what I think you should think about. remember even though you don't want to hear it God love is boundless, and he Loves you specifically. I care for you too this isn't some slave morality. I hope you have a good day whenever you are reading this.
People don’t create hell. God created hell he only creates not us. The devil and his fallen angels will not be in his presence suffering from love. This teaching is modernism. St. Isaac the Syrian may be a saint but saints have been wrong. The scriptures and the pre 325 church fathers that are saints agree. There are post 325 AD saints that agree too. I’m sorry vilifying God’s love by making it seem like it’s suffering and at the same time saying the belief in him being evil for creating an eternal hell for the devil and unrepentant sinners is horribly blasphemous. His love will be felt by the saved in eternity. The damned will be separated and feel anger bitterness shame indignant because the light of God and his love will be absent in hell. It’s tough but it’s the truth. To say otherwise would be denying clear teachings of Christ.
I’m not sure at all that you’re correct in saying that all of the holy fathers agree on the eternality of torment for the reprobate in hell. Gregory of Nyssa does not assert this, Origen rejects this outright, as does Isaac of Ninevah, Maximus the Confessor does not make any explicit claims one way or another but seems to lean toward a position of universal salvation. I find it interesting that you claim Matthew’s gospel asserts eternal conscious torment, and yet you wouldn’t even recite the scripture that you believe backs this claim.
Hello, thank you. One question. If christ goes into Hades to preach to the dead, doesn't that inherently mean at some point post death, the souls have an option to repent and believe fully in Christ because he visited them? Doesn't that imply an ability to change in some respects and know christ POST death? As a soul. Maybe this is all pre last judgement, and you're sort of "locked in" after the judgement?
Christ brought out of Hades all souls of the people who died in faith of the future coming of the Messiah. A soul cannot change after death, but God sure can change their state of being if a soul feels bad about her sinful life. That’s why we have prayers for the departed in the Orthodox Church: we witness in a form of a prayer that we would like to see them all with us in Heavenly Kingdom. The Church asks Jesus Christ to accept them and we believe that this is possible.
Forgive me, if i am wrong to say this or if i offend anyone, but i know that a true Orthodox Christian can never say: " all Christians... it doesn't matter", as you say at the end of the video. It does matter to preserve the faith pure and to persevere in the One and Only Truth of the Holy Orthodox Christianity. The other way is called ecumenism- the most dangerous heresy of our times.
Nothing to forgive here. Those words that you quoted are just a part of an invitation to seek Jesus Christ. They only confirm the truth that Jesus Christ is the Heart of Christianity and we all must work diligently to stay with Him. There is no reference to ecumenism at all. It is a general belief expressed in the words of St. Paul in 1 Timothy chapter 2 verse 4 that God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”. No person is forbidden to seek Him. An invitation to seek Jesus is equally addressed to all people.
Thank you for the prompt and wise reply. Again, forgive me, if i have misunderstood your thought, not an excuse, but i am not a native English speaker, so i struggle sometimes with accurately understanding the context. May God guide all of us to persevere in His love ! @@OrthodoxTalks
use the bible. God is loving and just. in love he gave us bible teaching on how to be saved, not orthodox doctrine. in justice those who reject those teaching are confined to hell to not allow their chaos in heaven. in heaven is God's richness shared with us. in hell nothing nothing is shared. people reap their own natures. simple as that.
Love doesn't kill. The fire of the SUN. SAVES. " You shall ALL be salted with fire". Jesus is a refiners fire. God is good to , restores and saves the UNGODLY. Humans don't burn their ungrateful wicked children Niether does God. Jesus says " God is kind to the ungrateful and wicked"
Because God is the God of love, He is also the God of wrath. There must and has to be a place for eternal torment. Otherwise, why strive for Heaven if there is no Hell - what's the point for "striving." People like Hitler, Stalin, murderers and rapists and everyone who blasphemies Jesus Christ as Lord God must be punished eternally if they don't repent before their own death. I would not rely on the teachings of the Holy Fathers if they cannot agree with one another or with Scripture on this important topic. The Scriptures don't have to state Hell as a "created" place since Scripture is clear that Hell exists as a punishment. All I'm hearing is Archpriest Ivan contradicting himself and Scriptures. I believe the Orthodox stance on this version of hell's existence weakens their theology. I've been studying EO for a few months now and discovered this view of their version of hell is most discouraging. I'll keep reading and watching EO videos and hope that I find something reflective of Scripture.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Just a quick response from the EO point of view: we strive for Heaven not because there is hell, but because of the love of God for us and our love for Him. Hell has nothing to do with it. Those, who reject God, put themselves into a state of suffering because they can’t stand God’s love. Please, continue studying EO (Eastern Orthodox Christianity). Please, read the writings of the Holy Fathers as well and you will discover many answers to your questions. God bless!
You're avoiding the central question: what kind of God would be willing to create on the terms that some of the creation would find their "gift" to be merely an infinite agonizing curse inflicted upon them, and why would anyone willingly associate with such a creature?
We give birth to our children and yet we know that not all of them will use their free will the way it was intended. But we as parents although not always in favour of their doings stay by their side regardless. It is called love. Plus, we don’t know many things about the life after the Second coming of the Lord. We might be surprised.
@@OrthodoxTalks If you know that having a child will result in that child enduring endless suffering and you go ahead and have the child anyway, you are a monster, full stop.
@@gnostic2459 It's not that simple; let's say you're God, and you want to create Bob. Bob will freely turn to you, and experience eternal bliss and reign alongside you for eternity. Now, let's say you want to create Bob AND James. James will freely turn to you, and experience eternal bliss and reign alongside you for eternity, BUT, James' actions before repenting from an evil he committed drove Bob to evil, and to rejecting you. Now, you can create Bob, and he will be saved, but there will be no James, or you can create James, and he will be saved, but Bob will suffer in the presence of your goodness. This is the kind of choice God has made for 117,000,000,000 men and women throughout history. Should he have created no man, that no man would be saved, and no man damned?
It's hard to make it all work. You can live as a good person your whole life because you know it leads to good things, but apparently if you're not an Orthodox Christian, you were somehow supposed to know that living as an unbeliever would lead to pain. All we know is what we see on this earth. Nothing on this earth would suggest that trying to be kind to others and not believing in God would lead to their own pain. No warning on that, but it's eternal. And who would want to give God the credit for creating something evil when we have to believe he's good? YOU created it. I can't even draw better than a 10 year old, but I apparently can create hell. ok.... Sounds like victim blaming to me. But when pantheists say we all created earth, that sounds ridiculous, but now we apparently all create hell?
“create hell” is a figure of speech. Nothing physical will be created (like pantheists believe) that would be called hell. We simply make that “hell” or sufferings of our souls possible.
@@OrthodoxTalks So God created hell and God sends us there, but we should take the blame on ourselves for its "creation" and for "sending ourselves there" because God would rather victim blame?
@@OrthodoxTalks So hell is simply suffering itself? Why doesn't the suffering start in this life then? Why distribute it randomly to childhood cancer and stuff like that? It seems like he's trying to trick people by having the reality they see not match up with what he's saying. Does he want people to learn to ignore reality? Why did God create beings that suffer without him? Why does suffering have to be the default here? Why can't Jesus' blood atone for ALL sin regardless of a person's belief? Adam's sin kills regardless of belief. It sounds like God just wants slaves.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Sufferings of this life (physical sufferings) are of a different kind than those in the life to come. They are not the same. While physical sufferings can become intense and unbearable they eventually end one way or another. Sufferings which are called hell (or sufferings in hell if you wish) are from the inability of the people to practice sin anymore. There is going to be only God’s love for all and no ways to satisfy sinful desires. They will suffer from that and from nothing else because they rejected God’s love and have no means to satisfy their sinful desires. Jesus’ Blood does atone all sins but for that we have to become His. Salvation is not an automatic deed but a voluntary reunion with God and ultimate healing of a human. We have a free will. Some might not want to be with Him and He is not the One Who pulls us into His love by force or with tricks. By freely uniting ourselves to Christ through repentance and baptism we get to be a part of His life, His “inheritance”. Webs get “atonement” only if we want to. Adam’s sin kills regardless because such death is a physical matter, a part of the physical world. Saint Paul calls Jesus a second Adam, a quickening spirit. God has no need in slaves. He is self-sufficient. It is rather interesting that He went on the Cross for His “slaves”! He is indeed a worthy Master then!
Also, I don’t understand how that’s a free choice. A truly free choice would be between two good things, no? Why can’t there be heaven with God and heaven without?
Because “Heaven” and the Presence of God are one and the same thing I believe. For the one who does not love God, God’s Presence/Love provokes shame, regret and torment-it is experienced as a “scourge” according to St. Isaac the Syrian.
There’s nothing like Heaven without God. Heaven is Heaven because of God’s presence. Just like virtues of Love, Goodness. Without God that love or goodness is earthly and is not eternal
Because there is only one Good thing. That is God. 2 choices of “good things” if they are truly good would be 2 choices for aspects of God. A choice for anything not “good” is not in accordance with God. Of course there are many in the world who think they are making “good” life choices, which are actually anathema to God and His church / body. These people who turn their back to God, thinking they are choosing a “good” option, if they die in this mode, will face eternity with their back to God. In other words, hell.
The soul that sins will die ..the wages of sin is death .not eternal consciousness..Paul says in Corinthians 15. If Christ is not raised from the dead .then those who have died have perished ..there is no rememberancr of thee in death .man perishes like the beast of the field .
“Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” - John 5:28-29
The problem in todays Europe is not to much catholicism nor protestantism, believe me. It is the non-christian ideologies that have influenced all society and theology as well. Orthodoxy is also pregnant with secular stuff but on the collective level (nationalism, corruption etc) that are completely ignored by almost all right-believers.
Its irresponsible in the extreme to talk about an "Orthodox" understanding of hell. There is no such thing. There is simply opinion and those vary. Several of the Church fathers spoke about hell as a physical place of torment.
Lies. You are teaching. You teach God BURNS His own kids. Jesus said "I will bring ALL people to myself and I will save ALL I bring". You teach that God is angry with His kids, with sinners forever but God says " My anger is just for a moment my tender Mercy is forever". Download free " Hope for all by Gerry Beauchemin PDF" and " the christian doctrine of apokatastasis a critical assessment from the bible to Eriugena by illaria ramelli PDF". Read " the inescapable love of God" by Thomas Talbot
