These are great. Lost an engine due to oil issues first test laps on track, even though fitted with road race sump. Fitted accumulator and engine did 8 hard years on track, bearings all fine when stripped for freshen up.
Accumulator has several uses. You can also use it to break-in your engine. 99% of street cars do not need a dry stump. There are more affordable ways to cut down on windage. I'm glad you have decided to educate your audience about this badly misunderstood product.
Yeah, the new Mountune era of engineers that are useless (The old boys that I knew from the WRC era would never run this crap), like Lotus back in the elise s2 years and Mclaren when it was starting with the mp412c an P1, they couldn't design their own engine (like lotus) so had to recycle a 30yo indycar era engine design from RICARDO engineering XD still running port injection in the era of Direct Injection! XD God its so funny!! So are you still grinding off the shot peened finish on connecting rods to "balance" them? XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD FFS you youtube princesses are hilarious.
@@ValladolidArde this setup was used due to the BTCC rule book. It will be easy for you to find more information on that outside of RU-vid. Not a bad rant though although there is room for improvement. 4/10, needs more facts and/or dragons 😅 - Taz.
After some google search it's such a novice install. Almost as easy as installing a spark plug. If you're not running an oil cooler its literally one line off an oil sandwich block.
What an awesome bit of tech. Not being into racing other than the armchair type but being a fabricator this looks like something I could achieve for my own car.
I nought my first one (a Canton 3 qt) in 1979 and still have it today. In 1993 I sent it back to Canton to get it checked out and they said it was fine but replaced the o-ring on the piston because of its age and did it all free. I originally used a selenoid from a Coke dispenser to open/close it with ignition switch, but replaced it with a Moroso unit after The Canton checkup. The Moroso unit worked the same pbut didnt use as much power and didnt do the loud "clunk" every time. I credit mine with the 608,000 miles I got out of the engine (aluminum V8) in my old mercedes 380SL.
This also solves the issue I have with cold starts. The engine is fine, it's just the realisation that the engine for a moment grinds metal to metal. I feel like it will provide me peace of mind.
Ran my record braking 34GTR with neither, just ran a 11 Litre Sump with associated pickup and never had surge issue in over 6 years of Motorsport events and it was tracked quite a few times per year.
Great video glad I watched it. The accumulator seems to be a great yet simple small design to keep your engine healthy under any and all driving conditions. Seems to me this is one of those things that should be mandated on cars, not backup cameras.
When he said mainly V8 guys use them and import guys don't but they do I think his accent explains it all. Not sure if Aussie or New Zealand but that's where V8 muscle meets JDM import so it's no surprise the two interchange ways of doing things
Perfect timing, looking at one of these for my 4g63 which suffers from a loss of oil pressure under heavy braking. Not a total loss but down to around 30psi which is less than it would be normally at the same RPMs
Im pretty sure this was after the 32 had piston failure. Not oil related. check it out: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wC8muFVAND8.html
My R32 GTR is mostly stock eongine-wise so I'd definitely want one of these if I join my friends for a track day. Oil starvation with the stock sump is almost guaranteed.
If there were a loss in oil pressure due to oil pump failure, the accumulator would provide relief, then the ecu would see no oil pressure and initiate engine protection. If it were the other way around, the engine protection would initiate every time the accumulator was required. Which I doesn't, because engine protection cant operate that quickly. Never the less, accumulators are worth every penny.
hey andrew , just noticed in the video , that in your GTR the brackets are inboard from the ends of the canister , @2:14 and that can cause deformation , causing the pistons to not be able to travel and or consistently through their range of movement and can cause hang ups and wear to the O-ings . just a heads up . see how in Jett200 @ 0:33 they are at the ends of the tank . that's how the manuf suggests. just a heads up . im sure you dont go too crazy with tightening , but still . steel clamps n an aluminum thin walled tube. they work great , i'll run one in my SR22 powered R32 . itll be used as a pre charge for cold starts , and on the electronic solenoid Canton offers . i worked with them several years ago with the SR20 pan they had offered, think now discontinued . great company , great products for sure . .
twistymcslide2 canton one in GT-R has thin end plates. Thinner than a clamp, so you have no choice but to clamp tube. It’s not tight enough to effect it Moroso one in JET200 has thicker ends so can do it that way.
Aircraft use pneudraulic accumulators to store energy for starting, emergency steering and braking, and extending landing gear when the regular hydraulic system experiences a failure. :D
The Subaru guys here in the US use these things often. Reason being is the factory oil pickups had a tendency to...desolder themselves under heat and vibration.
Good for if you can't install a dry sump...but seems like a bit of regular upkeep. Perhaps a little messy as well. I could only see using this for a street car as a safety for like you said, those shitty oil pumps in the RB's. Track car, I'd look for a more permanent solution.
@@MotiveVideo if it works, don't fix it until it breaks haha. I have a secondary oil pump that is timing chain driven and the clutch for the gear is oil pressure driven. I'll get a little lag if the oil pressure drops, but it's bullet proof with the Goliath of a timing chain and gear setup on there. Had to make a larger timing chain cover. On my RB's I just use dry sump with a G-force gate so the oil pump is never starved.
Open to prime then close. Start engine. Then open it as we pull out of pit garage. Crew chief points at accumulator and i point at bonnet pins and we both thumbs up as last check before driving out.
So it supplies oil when pressure drops, it's precharged with compressed air, and it uses a one way valve so once the oil gets out it's not getting in again, so it can run out of oil/pressure. Seems like a cheap dry sump alternative with drawbacks.
Random questions, Do these overfill the engine when at low revs when the oil pressure is lower anyway? Do they cause less than ideal pressure when the engine is going from low revs to high and the pump is trying to fill the accumulator and supply oil pressure? What pressure do you run these at and do you have to bleed the acculator/line going to it? can imagine there is a lot of volume in a -10 line going fron the engine to the boot. Always thought these were more of a tack on for cars that didnt have properly sorted oil systems, interesting video.
I asked my engine builder who has an evo 6 and has been in multiple WTAC events, he is not a fan. They do overfill the sump and when the sump is overfilled you have more potential for blow by. I was about to buy a dry sump setup and then I saw this video so I asked my builder and he advised me to spend the extra money for true security of engine longevity.
These work amazing when properly setup. Video has some blatant wrong info about it. I road race these because we are not allowed drysumps, and they make motors live 5x longer or more. Data log your oil pressure at a cam passage and you will be amazed how poor oiling does on a road course. You have to understand how to deal with dynamic oil level, they DO NOT create a higher oil level in your pan when racing when done right.
Amazing !!!! This should be factory equipment! But.... If I'm thinking of factory equipment quality, I think it will be more broken and leaking, then working. :))
Where did you guys install the accumulator for the R32? The trunk? Somewhere in the engine bay? And does the accumulator introduce another step when doing an oil change?
Thinking about fitting one of these to my RB. Loads of good reviews with this setup, except recently I heard from a guy who used to run one on his RB who said that even with an accumulator he still had starvation issues and that the time it takes for the accumulator to address an issue it can be too late? It seems like you have evidence to the contrary though? If several track car has zero issues and I guess didn't even show signs of bearing wear?
Main issue with the RB engines are the oil drain passageways from the head to the sump are underdimensioned, badly positioned or too few. Or some kind of combination of all of those. Essentially, the oil does not drain fast enough back down into the sump. Exposing the pickup tube to air and then failure due to loss of oil pressure. The accumulator reacts instantly(continiously) Just think of it like if someone would stand next to the engine holding a big ass syringe filled with oil and with a hose connected to the oil gallery on the engine. All of the time when the engine is running, this person is applying pressure to the plunger. In that way if the oil pressure in the engine would drop, the plunger and oil would start to go in instantly. But even if you have an accumulator installed you can still experience oil starvation. 1. If you have to little oil in the system as a whole. (For instance if you forget to shut the accumulator valve before shutting down the engine) If you then measure your oil level, it would not be correct. And when you then start up the engine again, the accumulator gets filled again and the oil level inside the sump will drop down. 2. Wrong size accumulator/ wrongly adjusted precharge. Even with the accumulator functioning as intended it will not make the oil drain faster into the sump. 🤷🏼♂️ How did he come to the conclusion that he still has starvation issues?
Once oil pressure dips how long does it take this thing to react? Are you able to set a oil pressure value for this thing to dump it’s oil contents at?
@@MotiveVideo thanks for the response. I found out that this thing stabilizes the oil system at the value you set. Initially I was thinking it waited for a dip in pressure then emptied its contents
Why have you put the clamps towards the middle of the canister in the GTR. They are supposed to be right on edge on each end to avoid deforming the canister.
I had A prototype that made it possible to advance the timing to the maximum possible adjustment on A 1998 Mazda Protege. Made A video before I destroyed the prototype. Probably will build A new one in the future anyways.
@@SpenserRoger Most gasoline powered engines do not run at the perfect ignition timing due to knock or pinging. Higher octane fuel helps to reduce pinging and knocking but it is costly, especially buying racing fuel. My prototype allowed for better optimization of the ICE. Higher MPG and better horsepower are A result of that optimization. Engines built with my prototype included from the beginning could be even further optimized.
Would this make sense on a low to mid power build with a 2jz? Seen as the oil flow is soo good on the 2jzs I was wonder if this would be an over kill or not most people I talk too say it’s not necessary but better safe than sorry right?
As he said, in case of an oil pump failure this will save you a lot of dollars. I'm not intimately familiar with the pick up system on the 2js, so you'll have to ask people who track race them (as opposed to drag race them) how they handle prolonged sideways G forces, if that is applicable to what you want to do.
Not all engines have aftermarket baffles and big sumps available so this is a good otion. not everyone can afford dry sump with unlimited budget. plus, as we said in video, NASCAR and Sprint cars use them. Go tell them to do things properly :)
@@MotiveVideo arr nascar have drysump setups,what iam saying if u have a circuit car or drag car and you know your gonna get oil surge you design a sump/pickup system where you dont get that issue it only takes a second to drop oil pressure and it's all ova,why use a bandaid/accumulator to do this job,when u can go drysump and never have a issue,do u really think a driver doin 200kph is say oh we dropped oil pressure let's just turn on the accumulator to save the engine??? Not a great way,and yes you can get an aux ch on the haltech to turn it on if pressure drops,but I say get rid of oil surge vs you saying wait for surge the turn ur lever...
Well blinker fluid is stored in residual dual resistance cap pods these days...so just replace the pod and your good to go and no more storage tanks like the old days.
@@NotnaRed actually it would be pressurized from the pump and would prevent a little starvation depending on how big the oil cooler is. Although it isn't pressurized by air it is condensed by the cooling effect and more oil can pass through the system. And it wouldn't be something that is computer controlled or switch controlled. But I can see the benefit of an air pressurized accumulator and maybe a hybrid system with a cooler.
So how does this differ? Both essentially do the same job & both are similar in operation. For example I have a bosch 044 hooked up to a 2L tank, now granted its not piston/pneumatically operated and I'm not pushing oil, but the principal is the same, its used to keep a steady o/p or in my case f/p when under load or fanging around corners
Sorry but used to rip these off lotuses to avoid destroying the toyota 2zz, the invention is a POS, replaced it with a properly baffled sump from moroso and all problems sorted. HEAVY AND USELESS
@@timburton1080 Hi Tim, really cant say as we never gave that junk a chance, racers complained the system was too tedious and unreliable, all I know is they blew up so many engines in the cup I lost count, it was Lotus 2eleven standard equipment from factory and by no means a race ready car from the dealership as marketed. We tore them out of our customer cars and ran the Morosso baffled sump with no issues EVER, we deemed the system a POS the second we saw it (a pethetic way to fix a design issue), practice and x2 20min races every race weekend all over uk and Europe (great track organization from lotus) for three years not even one engine failure (yearly rebuild and checks), we ran 380hp and about 569nm torque with the supercharger variants of the Lotuses sexy speedster offering. Gearbox was an issue too, due to engine placement and lack of cooling made the oil attack the bronze over 90deg so we installed a Laminova from think auto UK and problem fixed, superb cars when properly engineered, be it the 2zz or the rover K series engine, neither of them race ready but more than possible to modify to achieve reliability on track for a whole season or even two. Also ran additional engine oil cooling management to avoid the degradation of the oil during race temperatures. Hope the answer helps somehow (one of our customers won the championship Mr J.Walker)