ACS Slow Flight - MzeroA Flight Training 

As a PPL student coming up on 30 hours with 15 hours of solo time it’s great to see a second instructor’s take on everything.

You should never get “used to” hearing the stall warning horn. Hearing the stall warning should instigate an action. Many many accidents and deaths have been caused by pilots not reacting to stall warnings properly so can totally understand this change.

Well the new ACS does have the applicant fully stalling in various configurations, but not in"slow flight" so it is good to know that a full stall recovery can be still taught and evaluated. Beyond the check ride and aside of the ACS, I think there is nothing cooler than going out on a windy fall or spring day and doing slow flight and just hanging there like a helicopter and using throttle to raise and lower your altitude. It is an extremely great skill to have as a pilot to have. Knowing the outer edges of your performance envelope of your airplane really makes your skills sharp and increases your awareness and sensitivity as an aviator.

I absolutely appreciate every video of yours I have seen, thus far. I’m in the middle of my PPL progression, had an accident on second solo about a month ago, and I’m getting ready to jump back in next week. You’ve got some really well explain material!

My CFI turned me on to your vids for stalls/slow flight... I really like your teaching style because you talk TO us instead of AT us... My instructor is great, but there is always value in learning from as many sources as possible Thanks for having such great content!

I just started practicing Slow Flight on Friday and resume tomorrow. The book work is done and the studying continues, along with practical application from here on out.

If you have a good understanding of the aerodynamics, the stall warning horn, angle of attack, etc, the slow flight PTS vs ACS doesn't matter. You'll be just as safe, because you have the knowledge that you should recover in a real-world situation where you hear the stall warning horn during a time you didn't expect it. For some pilots that are a little less bright, and who learned slow flight in a rote-learning manner under PTS standards, they might benefit from an ACS slow flight because they are taught the simple rule of "stall horn = bad. DO SOMETHING!" I wouldn't be surprised if the stall-accident data was the same after a few years of ACS, but I also wouldn't expect the stall-accident data to show a worsening trend because of ACS.

I was flying a DA40 with a faulty stall warning horn, my instructor was used to it so he relied upon his instruments to know he was in the clear. me on the other hand, doing instrument training, every time any kind of wind or turbulence hit the air craft the stall warning would come on it was the most anxious/ nervous flight I have ever had because I wasn't used to the sound going off all the time, I found my self constantly reacting with recovery inputs on the controls. so yeah, I would agree no one should ever get Used to the sound of the stall warning horn.

I think a good instructor and school would teach both PTS and ACS slow flight. Teach people not to freak out over a stall horn and that you can still maneuver at that speed but also to take remedial action for recovery as necessary. I see no reason why both could not be combined to give the best effect. In doing this kind of curriculum I would teach ACS slow flight first and once the student is proficient with it, I would then teach them PTS slow flight. If they become proficient in both they can then know the aircraft's maximum potential for flight and recovery, this would be life saving information for a pilot to have. Knowing an aircraft's limitations is just as important as knowing your own limitations, you can not truly know these things until you stand right on the "razors edge". I am just a student pilot so take my word for what it's worth, which is next to nothing IMHO.

On ACS Slow-flight, yes, just as long as the pilot within their management skills is monitoring the passage of air over the wing and relate aero-structures, that make that plane fly. This is a procedure that you don't want to be complacent at, but pay attention to what both the plane and you are doing, all of the time. The application might be, ground tracking on a lost aircraft, or location pursuit of a traveling object placed upon the ground, or in water. Slow flight can go into stalls and from stalls break right or left into a spin. So flow flight and spin recovery, in a way are kissing cousins in potentiality. Thanks Jason

I trained for my private in 1984 in a 152 with an amazing instructor, and we learned full slow flight with the horn blaring, and all was good. I believe that my recovery skills are virtually instantaneous, and was thankful to experience the delicate rudder balance that you can only feel in that mode. That said, I HATE to hear the stall warning horn at any phase of flight, as I consider it a harbinger of virtual loss of control. I don't even really like it in the final phase of a great landing, preferring instead to touchdown with an extra 5-10 knots in my current Turbo Arrow. I think that anyone who believes that listening to a horn during slow flight or stall training will somehow make a pilot think that hearing the stall warning horn while flying normally is OK does not really understand analytical pilot logic. Each time I read about an accident near an airport, whether arriving or departing, I assume correctly (mostly) that there was a stall horn, a stall, and then an unrecoverable spin, and I want to stay as far away from that as possible. Practice safely so that it never really happens to you.

I disagree strongly with the new regulation. I'm *this close* to getting my PPL in Canada. We are taught slow flight with the stall warning just blaring in the background. Believe me, you do not just get used to it. It takes everything I have not to recover from the imminent stall. They will then have us actually stall the plane and recover. I'm appreciative that we do this, as well as spiral and spin recovery. Thanks for all you put here on RU-vid MZeroA!

Great video om slow flight. I agree, pilots should bit get used to hearing stall warning so as to not get too comfortable with it. It definitely should start you reacting quickly to it. Thanks for this channel it's amazing.

I think the new regulation is a mistake. Slow flight training is extremely important as a building block for all kinds of different flying that you may get into down the road. Knowing how to handle the plane and how much control input is needed when in slow flight is critical for things like, glassy water landings, short field lands and a whole host of not only everyday occurrences but emergencies as well. Glad to hear you are teaching both! If hearing the stall warning horn in anything other than an emergency is the concern then what about on every landing? In the final moments before touchdown the stall warning horn is actually the sound of my own little cheering section that I am about to have a great landing! :)

I think its important to remember the context in which we are training. All pilots should know how their airplane performs at minimum controllable airspeed (fly in slow flight with stall horn on) to know the limits of how the airplane can perform at slow speeds. It builds confidence and helps train for landings. In certain situations, a short one second sound of the horn should alert of a possible stall and should of course be corrected immediately. Especially true for turning maneuvers and flight relatively close to the ground.

Do I believe that ACS slow flight will create safer pilots? I do believe that conditioning the body to immediately react to a given circumstance works. When you are used to flying on the horn, it doesn't incite the reaction that is necessary in a real world stall scenario; your mind doesn't naturally associate the horn with danger. However, if we begin training our minds to associate the stall warning horn with executing stall recovery, it may prevent some fatal accidents in years to come.

Slow flight - is for me a very important maneuver that I believe you should be confidence with. My problem, perhaps because to few hours in the air (100), is that it is still a little bit scary with the stall situationen

I think you answered it Jason, "time will tell". I'm a student of the PTS, but I can see how not being use to the STALL HORN would make one more reactionary oppose to procedurally. When you hear it you should do something reactionary, which I think you also said. However there are some planes like the DA40 that will trigger a stall horn on landing; also well above the POH stall Vs or Vso speeds. The Cessna 172 not as much... Piper PA28, at least on ours is just a red light, which I haven't seen - suppose that's a good thing. Point is if I see the light, or hear the stall warning should be an indication to act upon it and prevent the onset of a stall. This is where I think the ACS is probably better than the PTS. This is of course my opinion... Will this decrease accidents related to stalls? Who knows.

I learnt in the UK and I was taught anytime you hear the stall warning you recover, except when practicing an ACTUAL stall recovery. It should be ingrained and automatic. But you still need to be able to demonstrate that you appreciate how the control feel changes right at the edge of the envelope and the difference in feel just before the warning and just before a real stall is insignificant. I don’t think it’s a good idea to get used to flying around with the stall warning blaring away.

Regardless of what's on the flight test, you need to know how the plane handles in the entire flight envelope. In the Great White North spins are a PPL training requirement but not a flight test item: you need to know what they look and feel like, and how to recover. Spin training saved my backside earlier this year when I was practising stalls in my plane and a wing drop turned in to an incipient spin...

good video. Would like to see more close up of the controls as you use them so as to create a more vicarious experience for visual training. Thanks

Man im having issues with slow flights, stalls. During my slow flights the plane fell into a spin twice! So im watching this now and will have this done in the morning.

I doubt very much ACS will change anything in the long run. I liked flying around with the stall horn on. It built a lot of confidence. Regardless of how I was taught, if tower told me to go as slow as possible, you wouldn't see me flying around with the stall horn on anyway! It seemed fairly obvious that is a training exercise, and any other time you hear the stall horn, you deal with it as you would a stall.

Just Saw Your plane at Lantana Airport... right after watching your video for my flight.

I've never did my slow flight hearing stall warning horn throughout my training and check rides in the Philippines. if you hear stall warning horn and completely stall with power on , we call it power on stall if you are stall with power on and flaps its called power on stall with flaps. Stall is very dangerous than everyone imagines which can lead to other things like spin etc. That's why my instructor never let me to hear stall warning being horned for long time if i stall recover immediately.

Jason... love our videos. Have a question I hope you can answer. I'm going for a Recreational license that uses the older PTS standards from 2006. Does that mean I will be tested on the old PTS slow slight or the ACS version??+

At 4:05 you ask what our thoughts are on the efficacy of this change. IMHO it is very likely to be helpful. Over the course of my career, I have seen training shift dramatically. The adage, train as you fight, fight as you train, seems very applicable here. Our brain's penchant for sensory adaptation just seems to me to be all too possible here. If you train with the stall warning horn on in slow flight, in a scenario where all is controlled as much as possible, growing desensitized to the horn could prove fatal in a real-world scenario.

I think the PTS version was way more challenging, but the ACS may be takes reality into account a little more. If it will reduce accidents; I dont think so, there's always a catch with anything of that sort.

Well done. Great clear instruction. I hope you stick with instructing as a career.

Like you, Jason, I learned PTS slow flight. There are advantages to that - you get to experience the control sloppiness at the limit, and THAT more than any audible warning should alert you to trouble right around the corner. Personally, when I hear the Stall warning in ANY performance profile OTHER than slow flight or a stall practice, or a check ride...I REACT. Most of my pilot friends do. We're not idiots, and I think the FAA is reacting out of lawsuit fear or something. Bottom line: in anything OTHER than a check ride, it's hard to get desensitized to the stall warning, therefore, I think ACS is much to do about nothing.

I’m old school too, In my opinion slow flight should be done to the stall horn.

I really think that the old school pts slow flight is a better practice than the acs. Yes, students should not get used to hear a stall warning, but for training purposes, it should still be practiced/performed. That way the student will understand completely the characteristics of the airplane that they’re flying. They will also know what correct action should be taken if they get into any unusual situation, and not only know what to do because “thats what they were told to do”. The old school pts definitely gives more valuable practice/training then the ats.

It was some time ago but during my check ride nor during my last flight review was the stall warning going off during slow flight. I was trained to slow fly the airplane at 1.3 X the stall speed which is very slow but the stall horn was not sounding. I had to maintain altitude and make 90 deg turns to demonstrate i could fly the airplane while landing. I didn't see the need for the change. What do they consider slow now? 1.3 X the stall speed of my airplane is 52 and Vr is 55.

While the reasoning makes sense I personally don't think the change will affect much considering a CFI should make sure their students know that the stall warning going off at times where you are not supposed to be near any kind of stalling configuration requires and immediate recovery. At least for myself I have never considered the stall warning horn as not a big deal unless it occured within a couple feel above the runway on a landing (literally just before making contact)

This would be a good scenario for talking about moderate VFR.

I think each pilot is going to be a little different as to the how much of each type of slow flight. However I believe old school slow flight is valuable like instrument training is important to get more comfortable with different parts of the flying experience so as to not panic in an emergency. Panic and complacency are both dangerous, just like getting too fixated on instruments can be.

What's a simple camera set up you have ? And how do you hook up to radio audio?

What if a plane flies so slow it slightly pitches up? Can it fly like that? Is that bad on fuel economy to drag like that?

Awesome thanks.

Yes I think it will, I can't tell you how many times I've been a co-pilot and the stall horn would go off and the PIC did nothing. Just acted like it wasn't happening. I had to mention that they drop the nose and throttle up.

Where does flying an aircraft with NO stall horn? What is the training regimen in that circumstance?

ACS slow flight will probably reduce examiner and instructor deaths but I believe that you should do the most extreme maneuvers you are allowed while flying with someone who is extremely experienced. While training, I think a student should be put in difficult situations while they are with an instructor that is an expert in getting out of that situation calmly. That, in my opinion, is how you create safe pilots. Create pilots who can operate and compose themselves when their life is on the line. If you can't do that then you have no business flying with passengers.

As a new pilot in training, I would rather become acquainted with the "stall warning" buzzer/sound. This serves multiple functions, 1... reduced anxiety and the possibility of be startled/shaken and 2... it allows the pilot the opportunity to practice slow flight to the point of stall... As Jason always says "A Good Pilot is ALWAYS Learning"... Thanks for the book Jason and I look forward to one day seeing/meeting you..... I also would like to COMMEND you for being so FRANK on your written exam score... it gives future pilots who question their ability to strive even harder.... lots of hurdles but I can see the home stretch in sight. TY

Both methods are useful. I wonder, though, if you fly without reaching the warning sound or light, how will learn to recognize an imminent stall? Will you get the buffet or super mushy control feel? I learned with the old way and did it on the checkride, including turns with the horn blaring. It was, I feel, a great way to recognize what was happening with the plane. Yes, if you here it, you should take appropriate action...goes without saying....and if you are trained to react to it you should not have an issue. Can not remember, does the ACS recommend training with full stalls and recovery...I believe the new way does not require full stall recovery in the checkride which you used to have to do.

Good video, cheers fella, top bloke. Can you publish a video on preflight check alway to take off, cheers buddy,

I think that regardless of what technique of slow flight you were taught under, you always have to have personal awareness of how stalls are initiated and ALWAYS behead of the plane. I think that the new way of teaching slow flight will not have a positive or negative effect on accident rates and other statistics. Accidents happen when you lose awareness of yourself and your plane while flying. If I had to chose one or the other, I would choose becoming more comfortable with hearing the stall warning horn showing you that your plane is capable of flying with the horn going off and do not need to recover right away (at a safe altitude of course). Although you would not want to hear a stall warning horn constantly going off on a cross country flight or something of that nature, it is important for pilots to become comfortable and confident in the plane they are flying

It could help, so long as people don’t start panicking over the stall warning horn. I watched a show about a plane crash that happened because the stick shaker went off and they pulled up and ended up stalling the airplane instead of pushing forward because both of the pilots were extremely fatigued and flying for a regional airline. I think people need to learn how to deal with emergencies, like spins for instance, or engine out, or losing instruments, management of loss of the different flight controls. My guess is panic kills the most pilots when emergencies do arise. I think the VFR pilots should be required to learn the basics of IFR flying just in case they Accidentally fly into IMC conditions, especially if they’re flying at night.

Sounds like they’re getting away from feel and relying on the stall warning horn. Not good.

I believe PTS, minimum controllable airspeed is a lesson in flying behind the power curve. A better training in my opinion that the acs.

Any kind of intentional maneuver that exposes you to a warning situation has the effect of marginalizing that warning situation; in this case, intentionally flying with the warning horn sounding will train your brain that the warning horn is "normal" or at the least less concerning. This is a bad recipe, and I think the ACS Slow Flight makes more sense; it teaches you how to control the aircraft but maintains the importance of heeding that important warning. A stall at 3000 feet is easily recoverable; a stall on short final can be a much bigger concern.

I would suspect that ultimately both "methods" need to be taught. Begin a student with the PTS "method", as this would seem to be the best way to develop the best "muscle memory" of the steps to recover from a stall; then gradually introduce the ACS standard of recovering the moment the aircraft alerts to an impending stall. This way, in the early phases of flight training, the student pilot develops an understanding of how the aircraft "talks" to them leading up to the stall and is taught the steps to recover before those steps are put to a tempo which may not be most conducive for learning. Jusy my $0.02. Feel free to give me change if you think it's warranted.

Can someone please explain why the Cessna 172 has a tendency to pitch up when adding flaps?

IDK...I learned the old stall criteria. Not going to change anything but it seems ridiculous to think that hearing a stall warning will teach someone to ignore it. That's where good instruction comes in. Not teaching full stall/spin recovery seems dangerous to me. Dumbing down training is going to bite us in the butt one day.

In helicopters the horn is low rotor rpm, which actually works the same way as a stall... Except it ends with the tail of the helicopter being chopped off. I love helicopters haha

I started training 30 years ago, ran out of money and just now started again. We did slow flight with the stall warning blaring non stop. You really do get used to it. I think it causes a nonchalant attitude towards the stall warning. I would rather learn to recover ASAP with the warning - Make that warning really mean something, rather than an attitude of ahhh that's no big deal I can fly with that.

Under ACS. What happens it the stall horn was broken down the road. The student would not know what it "feels like" at the start of a stall

honestly, I forget about slow flight sometimes. And I always liked doing the faster maneuvers, like Chandelles at full power are so fun! But slow things like Power Off 180s and Slow Flight get me, because I can be impatient and I don't like to go slow. 😂😂

Can you do another video of slow flight but showing controls when your doing it that would me most helpful as I am just starting out

Hi mate, love your vids. I have maybe a silly question. Why do you always sit in the right seat?

Inadvertently triggered the stall warning horn today 3/30/22 practicing slow flight with my CFI in a C172 😀. I'm a 4- hour student Pilot, what the hell do I know! 😁 Nearly crapped my pants while pushing the nose down. My CFI starting complementing me for knowing what to do, but couldn't finish cuz he was laughing his butt off for the way I got startled. 😀 I completed my Ground school at MzeroA, of course I knew what to do 😉

Hey Jason sup with ur lovely 150

Yes

WAIT! You said that what the FAA said makes sense!?!?!?! Prepare for a flood of comments complaining about the ACS slow flight!!!!

If pilots hears the stall horn and react and initiate the proper recovery techniques it should reduce the chances of an accident

In my case we had to hold that baby until she starts falling, that's when you recover 😂

Acs it will be safer but PTS is better because they will know when to recover

I think both technique is important and should be treated as separate and unrelated

You should get used to hearing it a few inches off the runway!

Both... the more training the better ...

Flying both Slow Flights will #FlattenTheCurve (tying in the pandemic... lol)

I could NEVER wear a white shirt! Hahahaha

My instructor has me find the stall horn before then add enough power to stay right above stall speed. I agree with the FAA that flying with the horn on constantly is dangerous.

I believe ACS slow flight will make safer pilot

Great….wouldn’t you think somebody would say what A..C…S.. stands for?

Dude just no handed slow flight like it was nothing

Right seat flying. Did you lose your student? LOL

Starts at 2:00

Yes I think it will, I can't tell you how many times I've been a co-pilot and the stall horn would go off and the PIC did nothing. Just acted like it wasn't happening. I had to mention that they drop the nose and throttle up.