Thnx, sir! I played 2E from day 1 until 2003 when I left the hobby....it was my go-to as a DM for many happy years of gaming! 🤓👊 I ran some Greyhawk for a few years and then switched over to Forgotten Realms when it hit and also quite a bit of Dragonlance as well! Most of my college apartment living room wall was those FR maps. 😋 I'd love to hear you deep-dive 2E for us, because, like you said, it simply doesn't get enough love at all! I tried to do a little, and want to do more of it myself, but would really like your take! Thnx again, sir! 👊
Still love 2e, played a ton of it while I was stationed in Germany from 89-92, as it was the only RPG we could get on post back then. I keep trying to get my current group to play a 2e campaign.
Mike, thanks for your service sir! I have several family members that served during the same time frame and have heard there was a lot of TTRPG going on at the time on base. Hope you can get your group talked into it buddy.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Thanks. Yes, we played a lot of 2e in Germany, and a lot of the guys I was stationed with there all ended up at Ft Stewart, and we expanded to other game systems when we got back with more access.
I played about everything I could get my grubby little hands on from 1985 to 1995… then I discovered weightlifting, cars and girls for a while…but still came back to the gaming.
Very informative video about AD&D 2E! Will come to it one day! I will probably go for a Gold & Glory Hardcover when I do 2E supplements and settings all look very good! PS: Love your videos, they keep me into the hobby even though I am not really able to play from now until the end of the summer
I really appreciate your comments Juauke, you are consistently adding to the conversation here. Gold & Glory is a very inexpensive and well done version of 2e. Keep your head in the hobby and you will eventually find your table time. I took a 10 year hiatus at one point.
@@booksbricksandboards783 you're very welcome, your content really helps Thanks for confirming that Gold & Glory is indeed a good way to get into it 😁 I will do my very best to keep it, I just hope my players and I will find time to play again (however online because I had to move) this summer at best but one day at worst 10 years is a lot but you came back
AD&D 2e is an absolute gem of the OSR. I’ve come back to it in recent years and it’s my favorite edition of D&D and I’ve converted a few tables to the path of 2e.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I told them I want to run 2e and they went “sure”! 😂 I then made sure to lessen the “dreaded” burden of THAC0 by me doing all the math (not that it’s hard) behind the screen for them. It felt to them like ascending AC then. I don’t mind telling them the AC target number they need to hit. That took care of the biggest “issue” for them. The quirky non-uniform dice mechanics don’t matter to them.
I had a guy in my group, who was willing to play Old School Essentials mind you, tell me that he refused to even try anything that said AD&D on it. I said why, and he told me because THAC0 is stupid. I said, I can convert on the fly to ascending AC for you, or give you a card that converts for you. He said, not a chance, not going to budge. He ended up leaving the group after he got married, but still remember the conversation. I explained the difference and the simple math, he didn’t want to hear it. He had the rest of the group so THAC0 averse that I probably couldn’t have gotten them to try either. Lol. That said they’ve tried every other system I asked so probably should be thankful.
I spend my Tuesday evenings either running Hyperborea, an OSR based on AD&D 1e, or playing AD&D 2e. The races and character creation option through the books for 2e allows some very unique and crazy creations.
That is the same path we took… BECMI, with elements from 1e, then straight into the full 2e experience. Same campaign, just converted over mid game. Where I learned a lot of the core elements of roleplaying!
God this brings back so many memories. This was our game. We did the same thing with each person focusing on certain books, etc . Darksun though... Dang I miss that setting. This brings back many happy memories!
Rob, absolutely! I loved Dark Sun, but I HATED the 2e psionic system which is why I Have converted it all to Savage Worlds (I call it Savage Sun), where the psionic Wild Talents just become a power… very slick.
It was actually a pretty easy conversion. The Fantasy Companion seemed to ‘plan’ on people playing Dark Sun with it, so all the races have analogs, or at least very close choices that can be edited to be matches. The Wild Talent thing was hardest to figure out, but just made a setting rule, every Wild Card is a Wild Talent, and gets the Arcane Background “Gifted” edge to represent that. It actually covers about every possible choice from the complete book of psionics!
Agreed… the setting definitely set it apart from everything else. As compared to 1e, it is better organized and offers way more options as a whole. The only areas of legitimate beef between 1 and 2, seem to be more a matter tone… even the xp change, which I also prefer in 1e, is an optional rule as outlined in the DMG. So basically the stuff I didn’t like as much, is an official option in 2e (like treasure based xp rewards), and a matter of naming… nobody is calling a monster a Baatezu or a Tanaari, but that’s fine because EVERYONE knew what they were anyway lol 🤣. So for what was a couple minor and fixable issues, I got options galore, settings for days and a greatly improved layout for what I consider the best version of D&D, which is Advanced D&D (the second edition being the pinnacle of that). If I were to include 3rd party retroclones, I would say Hyperborea is a system improvement beyond that, but as an official line, 2nd edition is my favorite.
Our Thursdays 6-9 group just ended a 2+ Year 2e Campaign ... We rotate Dms and the current DM is running a 1e Mysteria campaign. We have 9 Players now (One just moved away). and I run a 7 Player Lankhmar 1e Campaign Every Sunday 5-9 ... both in Florida.
2e was my glory era of the game. Fondly remembered and loved. The book bloat was crazy though. Lots of options, to many IMHO. I miss the detail that they put in to these supplements. The new 5e stuff is sadly lacking when compared to these tomes/boxed sets of old
Great thing about the old stuff is that the most valuable parts are as useful today as they were then, the maps and the stories. I think some self policing is necessary to enjoy 2e.
So, I just recently found a group to play it with me again… after a 26 year hiatus (from 2e not altogether). My two boys, one of whom tried and didn’t enjoy other editions with larger groups, tried 2e and loved it! So I am once again able to play it with a group(rather than solo)! I’m doing a video soon on the reasons it should be considered in 2024, and the many different entry points to the game. Thanks for watching!
Ah, the sweet pain of having gotten rid of the core books along with some of the others. I still have that very same FR box, the complete guides and some other goodies thankfully. Maybe one day I'll get my hands on a new set of the core three. After all, this was the game I first started playing together with my wife. Btw I'm really enjoying seeing your collection! Pretty cool!
Paavo! Thanks sir! I find the walls of text comforting after looking at the shiny but ultimately more superficial recent offerings. The boxed sets are just such an improvement over anything since.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh yeah 😅 I'm not sure I would have as much patience reading that much these days but back then I would devour everything I got my hands on 😁
This is a fun video, thanks. Our core group (6) played 2E/Ad&D on Sunday afternoons, with one or two others joining as their work schedule allowed. Either BBQ chicken, or order a Domino’s pizza, whose drivers rarely delivered on time (within 30 minutes or it’s free)! We had lots of good games, for about 4/5 years, then three of the group moved for jobs or family or whatever. We didn’t worry about things we didn’t care for. Simpler times.
You are welcome. It’s funny how we all experienced such similar times with this hobby, despite miles and lack of internet… the hobby kind of raised us in a hobby family if you will. I don’t suppose you had Jolt Cola with your Doritos and pizza, because then I’m going to have to say you and I may be long lost gaming brothers. Thanks for watching!
Running 2e games right now and even a few 5e diehards admit that it actually works reasonably well. They keep showing up in discord/roll20 without fail(7 months and counting) so it cant just be me that is enjoying it. I decided to go back to 2e since so many video games I grew up with in the early 90s were based on it or influenced by it. Its a solid system with 24 years of content at your finger tips
I run AD&D with just the core book and maybe the Tome of Magic. I have a great time with it. If we want more options, the class handbooks are there, but the base game is excellent as-is.
Agreed. I think the base is extremely solid, but with the options available it can appeal to most groups, because it has the options to be as simple or complicated as we want to make it.
I've written a ruleset for AD&D 2e in FantasyGroups and a compatible ruleset of similar flavor in Foundry (called ARS). My favorite game. Can't have to many people playing AD&D.
Mike, I have never played online yet, so I am intrigued by the prospect. I just never knew anyone playing online, and figuring out how to find an online one shot was intimidating… plus I had a group and solo, but the online games are something I’d like to figure out!
@@booksbricksandboards783 I've been fortunate enough to have a group of friends since high school that have been core of my group tho we've picked up several new ones over the years also. There is a discord for Foundry or the forums for FG... will help out if you are interested in finding folks for your Virtual table. I'd be interested to know which VTT you decide to go with ;)
Mike, I’ve never even used discord. Lol. I’m an old man, beyond my chronological age it seems🤣😂. Honestly I just need to get a good tutorial and the time to learn it! Thanks buddy!
While Red Box will always be my first "D&D", AD&D 2e was the game in which I started playing with my first real group. I'm a fan of any TSR era (A)D&D system but 2nd Edition is the only one I'll run. Clear system rules, plenty of optional rules, easy to house rule, and a multitude of settings from which to choose to play in.
Love hearing this. I always found it a little odd that people hold against 2e that there are SO many optional rules… they are optional, so if you don’t like them, don’t use them. I mean everyone I knew that played 1e had as many house rules as one could shake a bardiche at. I found a new optional rule today that I didn’t remember, but quite like in the DMG. The second option for critical hits gives you an extra attack roll, and it keeps going until you don’t roll a 20… so mitigated exploding dice. Really like that, but always played double damage in my time.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I love most of all...but the full page pictures are awesome...it takes me to another place and really take my imagination to another level
@@booksbricksandboards783 exact the same for me...I hate the art from 3.0 foward...it took away the magic...you cannot see a clyde caldwell or jeff easley art and not be inspired...
Say what you want about it for good or ill, 2E pushed out a lot of settings and setting support content. If you couldn't find a setting to love in those days, you were probably not trying. In addition to the ones in this video, there was also Birthright (fantasy with a focus on politics and domain play). Council of Wyrms (you played as dragon hatchlings), Red Steel (a land plagued by a magical curse), and a big expansion to Greyhawk (Gary's O.G. setting) with the Greyhawk Wars and From the Ashes boxed sets.
I did briefly mention Birthright in the video, but without the box as a visual it was easy to miss! I enjoyed Council of Wyrms as a player, but it was not an easy task to DM. Red Steel I never got into, so can’t talk much about it. As for Greyhawk, I used the Free City of Greyhawk box, combined with the Greyhawk Adventures book. Never tracked down the other 2e boxes (but did have the 1e one for a bit!). The other that I touched on ever so briefly, but didn’t give enough time is Dark Sun, as it will be getting its own video. You nailed it when you said there is a campaign for everyone, sometimes several!
I have an extensive collection of AD&D 2E and it is my preferred version of the game. I also really like the Rules Cyclopedia. The less I hear 5E devotees opening their mouths on Dungeons and Dragons the better.
I don’t mind new players talking about D&D, but for them to talk negatively about systems they have never played, and most often never even read is really off putting. Rules Cyclopedia was a beauty. Before he was the Elf guy, Aaron Allston was the Rules Cyclopedia guy😀. Heck, I may be misremembering the timelines on those two, RC might have been after elves. But either way, great book.
playing 2e now. THACO is difficult for some, but it was back in the day. When I played it originally. Having fun with it today. I find it to be bloat minimal compared to later editions. Just keep gaming all, even if math scares you. 😃
I remember being excited about THAC0. Wait I don’t have to rewrite my matrix every time my attack level changes? I just write one number? Sign me up! lol. I’d play it now if I had the group that was into it. Probably just a solo game for me, at least for a while.
I was surprised (shocked, really) to see that there no Dark Sun books in your sample stacks, but I was glad to hear that you were on the Dark Sun stuff for your group. We never had any problem with THACO at all, it was literally never an issue, so all the blah-blah wah-wah about THACO has never really made sense to me. We never had a problem with the matrix either, and, weirdly, THACO actually felt like an improvement. Setting-wise, 2E was all Dark Sun all the time for us, man. Dark Sun was amazing. It was just what we wanted at that time, having played the High Fantasy stuff for long enough. You should do a full video, or a series of vids on Dark Sun. That Brom artwork alone would look great in the thumbnails. Thanks for posting this, man. Good stuff.
DeeBee. I plan on doing a Dark Sun video in the future. I have the Dark Sun boxed set, as well as a softback reprint of it (for rough use), and a reprint copy of the gladiators handbook, and a spiral bound print of the monstrous appendix. So, I do indeed enjoy Dark Sun. My one beef with it, is that the Psionics system for 2e never felt right. I understand wanting to do something different than the magic system, but it just felt too mechanical to me. When reading the Prism Pentad, I felt like that version of psionics was not what I got on the table. That said, if you just have wild talents it probably is better than I remembered. I loved the setting, the power boost, the races, the class changes, the magic system, the monsters, the breakable weapons… just not the psionics. That was why I converted Dark Sun to Savage Worlds, specifically because it could handle the psionics better. I will do a Dark Sun video though! Since you are an enthusiast, what is your favorite Dark Sun race? Mine is Mul, followed closely by Half Giant.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh, Mul for sure. Don't laugh, but I also really dig the elf in Dark Sun. My favourite character that I played was a human though - my version of Mad Max meets John Carter, and he managed to survive, so, I live! The Psionics were a bit much. Dude, I would love to see your Savage worlds conversion. Are you going to do a video on kit bashing?
@@deeebeee1758 DeeBee, totally get the elf love. These are not your dad’s elves. Tall desert savages… after reading Rikus’ story, I just loved the whole Mul concept. I don’t know if anyone besides you and me would be interested in my conversion. I tell you what, I’ll do a poll and if it is shut down, I will share it with you (for your own enjoyment), if it is popular I will do a full video. Fair? Not this week though, as I need to get WWON video for May done!
@@booksbricksandboards783 Sounds good to me. I feel like a lot of old punks like myself might find the Dark Sun conversion of great interest. Take care, man.
Jay, we all had that monstrosity… and every one of us had torn sheets. Then the appendices for the different settings being loose inserts just sucked when we all converted to the book. PDF’s of those are a big upgrade. I printed some out and spiral bound them.
@@booksbricksandboards783 They liked getting creative with their products back then. Sometimes it worked, I still have my Dark Suns books, and sometimes it missed. The first reprint of Ravenloft for AD&d 2nd ed had a lot of stuff with it, but it wasn't great.
So the one was the box with the wizard that is in the video. The second is the “gold” box with the horseman from the first edition box on the cover. The one in my video is the newer.
Hidden Gem. Most people seem to think that all the extraneous sourcebooks define the edition, when they are just meant to be supplements. The core game is excellent. More options than B/X, cleaner and more concise than 1e. It's perfect, and the art is the best in D&D history.
Joel, you are not wrong. Easley, Elmore and Brom, those three define the game for me, and they are prevalent throughout. I enjoy the core game thoroughly!
@@booksbricksandboards783 that picture of an adventuring party who had just slain a juvenile green dragon, painted by Larry Elmore in the beginning of the player's handbook is my platonic D&D image.
I know exactly the one you are talking about, and that being removed was my biggest complaint of the revised version of that book. It tells a story all on its own.
@booksbricksandboards783 the revised editions might have had better editing, I don't know. I barely bothered to read them. I was really turned off by the downgrade in the art.
@@joelkurowski7129 I didn’t own them during my 2e playing days, but briefly had a set in my collecting period. The interiors did have some additional editing perks, I have the PDF’s now. The art and clinical look of the layout was a turnoff, but the worst part was the covers… not just the art but the style. You go from a PHB that is completely Easley art, with that bright and bold logo, to a bland red logo, bland black border, and a ruddy brown tone piece of art in the center…just not appealing at all.
AD&D 2e is what I run today. Being an organizational improvement over AD&D 1e while remaining 99% compatible with older material that I enjoy makes it an all too appealing choice for me. (I know my comment isn't adding anything new to your fair and comprehensive coverage of the game, but perhaps it will help the algorithm be a bit kinder to your channel that deserves an even wider viewership.) Congratulations on the milestone. Cheers!
Fred, you have an excellent taste in games and I certainly appreciate your taste in channels! Thanks for adding to the conversation. Out of curiosity, of the TSR settings, is there any you like more than another?
2ND edition and BECMI are my faves cause I started with them, there are some things in 1st edition i like, but over all I don't like the books of 1st lol
I enjoy reading Gary’s particular style of writing, which is one reason I enjoy Hyperborea as well (Talanian is the closest modern author to Gygaxian prose). That said, to play from that is a chore to be charitable. Some great half completed thoughts and ideas. First edition rules are like rungs to a ladder, but it became eminently more usable when 2nd edition put rails with the rungs.
The only thing 2nd edition was really missing in my opinion is that it needed skills. I also liked that monster damage was kinda arbitrary in that it was usually directly tied to an attribute as it has been since 2nd edition. A final note that I enjoy about 5th edition is that it takes a note from 2nd where it magic items aren't just everywhere or can be created easily and are more like relics from ages past. 3rd ed turned magic items into a sorta Santa's workshop type thing and even worse it made no room for low magic games as far as CR for encounters went, no you were intended to have X amount of magic festooned about your person by each level so that you glowed brightly when detect magic was cast.
So when you say it needed skills, do you mean a different system than the Non Weapon Proficiency system? That is what I think most would refer to as a skills system, but might not be the way you prefer it be done (which is a common complaint about NWP system). I think regarding magical items, there is a large variance between campaigns and DM’s. I do think that 3rd edition relied upon magic items to make up for inherently weaker classes at higher levels, but to some degree it is always the case that a high level fighter is only going to be as good as his gear, while a high level caster is going to be a terror no matter the equipment.
Controversial opinion: The "splatbook bloat" is what, to many 2E enjoyers, makes it the superior edition. Yes, I said it. The brown books, while not perfect, were great. Kits are bad ass. They add a lot of flavor and make it so not every player's PC is the same. One player's fighter is not like another player's fighter. They also added a lot of new proficiencies and skills that are very useful. Anyone who dumps on the brown books obviously misses the entire point. Add to that all the awesome setting materials and a DM has so many tools than any other edition I can imagine. Aa for devils and demons names being changed to baatezu and tanar'ri we explained it as the original terms being what mortals called them. The new names are what devils, demons and mortals like high level mages call them. Baatezu and Tanar'ri are their native names in the Hells and the Abyss. Why TSR did not explain it like this is beyond me. 2E is the best edition IMHO. 2E 4 life.
Anon, boy will you appreciate the video I’m dropping tonight. It goes into some detail on some of the very topics you are talking about. I have it scheduled for 4:00 PM CDT, and not only do I reference the brown books (which I have the whole collection), but also the settings as two of the 5 strengths of AD&D 2e. I agree with your comments, but I also felt like I needed to address the common misconception about some of these. When I talked about varying quality, I think there were likely books for everyone, but I’d also be surprised if anyone liked all of them. For me the Chronomancer’s handbook and some of the adventures were misses for me, but largely the setting and regional boxes and the PHBR series are big hits!
Page 176 of the revised DMG states that in order to find a secret door, a character must intentionally search the area, a 20’ section of wall taking ten minutes. If they search the correct area they automatically find it. Elves and Half-Elves detect secret doors is a random roll that happens passively, not something that they need to dedicate their attention to.
@@booksbricksandboards783 Searching for concealed doors reveals them, not secret doors. Consider this statement from page 176, “In very rare cases, the character may discover that the secret door exists (by finding its outline, for example) but not know how to open it. In this case, a separate check must be made to open the door.” A separate check from what? What kind of check first has to be made to then make a check to open the door?
I see your point the language is confusing, but I would say this… concealed doors are what I would traditionally call a “Secret Door”. I believe what they are calling a “Secret Door” is calling back to the fantasy fiction trope of “you must stand at the highest rock when the full moon’s light shines to reveal the location of this door…” kind of thing. They were encouraging puzzle creation, and imply that there may be other steps the DM would ask you to take to discover the door…(ie sing the special song, solve the riddle, etc etc). The separate check to open just implies that, just because you found it, does not mean that it opens for you 😀… oh and if you fail the lock pick check you can’t come back for another level! The wording isn’t perfect by any means, but I think for the audience it was aimed at, that were custom ruling half of the game in AD&D, this was more clear than to a modern eye.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I appreciate what you’re trying to do here, but the real answer is that finding a secret door is accomplished by rolling a 1 on a 1d6, unless you’re an elf or half half, then it’s a 1 or a 2. We know this because that’s what 1e AD&D clearly states. Or, you can follow the DM Miscellany rule and do a wisdom (roll under) check. TSR admitted to this oversight in a Sage Advice article, but never corrected the missing rule in any revisions and reprints of 2e. My entire point is that while I agree that 2e is a gem (I’m running a campaign with it right now) it is not without its warts and problems.
@@red_wullf I’m really just trying to answer your question, no hidden agenda here😀. I have not read that Sage Advice column, but I do believe that the way the Revised DMG describes the “concealed door” process, it seems to be how most of the tables I played at would describe a “secret door”. In that case, it doesn’t seem like this is as confusing as you seem to be saying that it is, to me at least. Keep in mind there are often conflicting versions of what happened and why things were the way they were in the early days. For example I heard an interview on a podcast where a TSR designer during 2e said they wanted to do ascending AC in the early 80’s but were shut down by marketing because it would invalidate previous products. I’ve heard others from the same era talk about the issue as being much less a concern and more just, this is the way it is done and it’s fine. So, yeah, possible that they left that out as you said, but also, as written I see no issue with that rule and was easily able to figure out a logical way it works as written. I actually gave a list of 5 of the biggest complaints about 2nd edition in this video, so certainly didn’t intend to make it sound as if “it didn’t have its flaws”, and pretty sure from the comments I have gotten (here and by email), that most folks didn’t take it as I was saying that. Thanks for watching and the discussion.
If you just use the core books and ignore all the splat, it’s a solid system. They should never have gotten rid of demons and devils though. Plus the whole reason this was released was to get Gary Gygax’s name off of the book. I’d still prefer 1e over 2e just because it is really simpler. I never liked N.W.P.’s.
I think the core rules set is excellent, as I think I mentioned in the video, but I do have more love for many of the splat books than most folks out there. Largely depends on what they are used for in my mind, munchkin metagaming? No thanks. But if something in a splat book actually helps a player realize a character they really want to play, I’m good with it. There was a second edition in the plans before Gary’s departure from TSR, he wrote about it in an issue of Dragon Magazine. That said, Gary’s ideas largely didn’t make the new edition, and there was definitely an added reasoning of eliminating royalties to Gygax in the way they did to Arneson with AD&D… in both cases the authors ended suing and I believe making some money on the deal. I’m actually also in the minority on NWP. I know that the balance isn’t there, and they vary wildly in effectiveness, but we used them and I always enjoyed them.
@@booksbricksandboards783 I know a lot of folks used the NWP, it just doesn’t fit my style personally. I can see their uses though. I mostly run Castles & Crusades these days, which is the system Gary Gygax was using when he died and he even said it’s a spiritual 2nd edition to his AD&D. I definitely recommend checking it out. Imagine 1e, rules light, with modern mechanics.
Oh, yeah I have had C&C since the second printing. I actually got it when I wasn’t even playing because the Trolls were at Gen Con and that was the year Gary had died. They told the story of Gary’s participation in C&C and his endorsement. Thanks for sharing sir!
