Any mix of Cait, Varus, Ashe just gives you perma-push power from safe range. JG changes should at least Malone farming jg more viable, so bot isn't just perma camped by both jg, but early push to contest first two drakes and frequently roam mid makes games snowball out of control so fast.
@@44shadesofgreen nah with a few pixels lower it's a guaranteed hit, just how skillshots work when you are against/close to the wall. Korean challengers know this more than anyone, his brain was just gone from this tilting game
@@lulyhead you can go to settings and use 0.25x and then pausing every single frame to see that the hook is almost perfectly centered on the target. If he hook a bit lower they could side step upward and vice versa, the reactions were on point
CDR and Dmg inflation making traditional supports less valuable. Unfortunately riot's approach is buffing the damage of traditional supports instead of nerfing damage across the board for other roles :|
They already nerfed damage with the durability patch and that made the game super boring until they brougth back some damage, especially for pro. Adcs supports are not actually viable outside of ashe(in soloq and twitch is played like an ap assasin, not really an adc) and keria winning with them doesn't prove anything
@@doglopmaz it wasnt borught back because the game got boring, they brought back damage because certain classes were hellishly overperforming; notably assassins and burst mages turned into complete dogshit. tbh the durability patch was a mistake to begin with, what they needed to do was take away damage across the board instead of giving everyone base health and armor so much that they were as tanky as maokai in season 5. the interaction between the durability patch and the item system granting bonuses in the form of %s is the problem.
@doffy5394 umbral glaive is not the reason of adc supports. It's because only adc supports can counter heim/nami/karma/yuumi etc bullies. Support items also unbalanced, relic takes 15+ mins to complete, spell thief you can do it so easily
@@doffy5394 nerfing umbral is merely a bandaid fix, it doesn’t address the real problem that led to these picks being viable. the amount of dmg in the game rn is simply unsustainable.
Here is the thing, it's the by-product of the recent patches. Why would you play engage or enchanters if you can just make them not play the game? It was just a theory before, but with the recent patches it's just possible to do just that
Jungle become more sufficient also played a role. Before you need a support that can actually help guarding the jungle early game, but with the jungle changes it's also viable to just straight up go to lane and start poking, which in term gives more prio even with no engage tools
The main reason why this isn't doing well is because of the strength of engage supports having kill pressure is falling. The sustainability update made engage supports that had just enough damage to assist the adc in killing a caught out target a lot less likely. The dmg buffs are supposed to give back that kill pressure a bit more. I think this is a look in the right direction although I think them being even more tanky could be good too. I think having higher dmg or sustainability is a lot more appealing than them getting longer CC durations.
a reminder that taco recently plays jhin support and is on a win streak, when he tries going back to jhin adc he is on a red carpet hell Edit : mispelling
Yes jhinn sup is very good, got invented by Beryl as a counter to Heimer, but is overall very strong cus he just insane range above 2sec cc and crazy poke
actually make sense, especially when the gold from sp is much more value with much less effort to gain, so the ADC who need it fast and safe now get what they want
I’ve been playing akshan support since he came out, and it’s so much fun. Enemies would always focus my adc while I bursted them down, so they’d never have enough damage or could focus both of us. Moment someone dies, just roam and clean up, play him as a revive bot and clean up fights and you don’t lose games
lowering said adc picks base dmg compensating that into the scaling, nerfing the ad sup item damage, and buffing maybe the doran blade stats giving early skirmish a little edge on real adc over the sup one without nerfing the whole role again.
Whenever I see "X is the new meta" I have 3 questions: Why is it meta now? Why wasn't this meta before? Is it relevant ouside of top 1% play? Almost always the outcome is one of theese: Its irrelevant below top 1% so play because the advantages given by the inbalance are diminished by lack of skill to use them, or it doesn't have an actual clearly definable advantage over previous "meta" startegies which means you don't have to throw away already tried and trusted strategies for the new flavour of the month "meta". TL;DR It is very rare that an avarage level player benefits from blindly following unituitive "Works in hands of top 0% koreans" startegies. Thank you for listening to my TED Talk.
I mostly agree, but I think a lot of strategies can be utilised out of the top1% as long as enough time and practice is spent on learning it. OFC you wouldn't be able to become chinese fiora off that, but picks like mid zac or poppy are doable.
Although the HoB + Umbral Glaive combo is certainly a factor, the meta most likely was caused by a decrease in power level from the support side after the patches from the durability update onwards. I am certainly enjoying things like Rell and Thresh with Radiant Virtue, but without that item they are too squishy to be useful. Enchanters were nerfed to the ground because they were too op helping already durable teammates. The right move was to buff the tanks and keep the enchanters around where they were, or this meta was going to be inevitable (Even before that, the meta was decided by things like Amumu, off-meta supports and mages because everything else kind of sucked).
Top 600 rell here (and counting down) I recommend going Iceborn Gauntlet on Rell, makes a HUGE difference and this item has helped me climb with her. But yeah sadly after these patches lately it's hard to play as her especially!
the thing im finding with support lately is it's better to take a champ with kill potential in the mid to late game it ends up feeling like a 5v4 sometimes.
I've had a couple jayce supports. Their main strength is the fact that they can take Glacial and insec people with the knockback. It's basically a scuffed Alistar, but with poke.
Sorry ,top lane is "too broken" for adc players, i think top laners should be teleported to howling abyss for the first 14 mins and then join their team at 14 mins, since they dont exist until then anyway, buff adc and nerf top btw pls riot 🙃🙃
Man that reminds me of when i used to play riven mid back in 2015, flamed for troll picking but then faker picked it against cassio in proplay and suddenly a lot of riven mid players appeared
@@gennarogrimaldi5325 I was accused of trolling and get reported for playing Support Morgana/Lux back in that transition from season 2-3 (never built Mejais and never griefed/ks, only built utility and cd to abuse each hero's cc) cause "tHaT's NoT tHe MeTa, PlAy A rEaL sUpPoRt LiKe SoRaKa" (back when you could spam her Q and give people mana)and now they're popular LMFAO kms I hate league players with a passion
@@dankmemes8254 lux xerath velkoz varus mf ashe veigar zyra heimer brand arent even a real supports "we have now supports killing adcs" ofc, but this supp is lethality varus
ADC supports mostly utilities their CC skills like slow and other secondary effect like debuffs and poisons, while chipping damage... While the damage itself is not that high than those full on ADC, it still a good thing as it supplements the additional damage needed to secure a kill
I really like senna as she has so much versitility and you always feel like you are impacting your games. You may not have most damage every game unless the game goes to 30-40 mins but you will always be mvp (on blitz at least) because of the healing and cc you provide that just wins fights flat out. And she's always a win condition in the fact that she will be stronger than late game adc's late game if she keeps stacking and they enemy team is playing characters that you can kite.
The problem with Senna is that she's so squishy in the early game. Like sure, her healing and CC are really good, and she can be a viable ADC in the late game, but what would that even do when you're getting stomped in the early game.
I heard that Keria did not pick Caitlyn support because he or T1 thought it was good. Apparently, since they won Game 1 so easily, he simply wanted to play something that nobody had ever done before.
What most of them have in common: Hail of Blades. That's definitely going to be looked at to temper the situation if it keeps growing out of control and Riot's liking. Then again, they never really balance things correctly do they. Edit: ofc I didn't notice dobby put that in writing in the video how silly of me
It’s actually funny how the adcs who used hail of blades earlier now are leaning more towards Lethal tempo. Like hail of blades is not pref rune on Kai’Sa or Draven how it used to be, and even Tristana, for whom leagueofgraphs still displays HOB as the pref rune, starts running Lethal tempo too. Both the tank meta + HOB nerf did it thing already, but adc supps with HOB are meta now, can’t wait to see the rune nerfed to the ground
When graves first came out i abused this idea seasons ago. Graves support when his cone allowed incredible damage if all three hit and his auto wasnt an AOE cone. He could almost oneshot from a bush level 1
Here are some winrates to put this in perspective: Varus Support: 43.5% Kalista Support: 35.8% Tristana Support: 41.2% Akshan Support: 41.9% Xayah Supprt: 41.9% Caitlyn Support: 42.9% Jhinn Support: 43.5% Twitch Support: 49.6% So this is not the meta but its a refreshing, enchanter discriminating trend that i like if its not on my team. Edit: some might say this is overall wr but I remind you these WRs often get worse if you check for plat+
Yep, and it's this way for a reason, and if you fail to realize it you are in that category. Win rates are so low because people that dont know how to play the pick or the game in general is playing this picks and lowering win rates. All of the really high elo players playing this probably have decent/good win rates
From a buffing/healing support To an engage support To the annoying adc bot support (MF, ashe were probably the pioneer for it with their slow mechanics and how they can be built of with ap) And now we have a killing support that is much focused on killing carries and being map aware at the same time. We can have "marksman" and "ad carry" as a different entity that can be drafted at the same game.
I feel like that's what you kinda get for overbuffing everything after the durability patch. ADCs aren't that strong in a solo Q environnement but traditional supports can't compete with so much damage when even tanks can solo squishies that were supposed to have the upper hand on them.
objectively I like the non static supports roles, but if it's not traditional adc as adc and supp on supp it kinda breaks the lanes dynamic. Take swain support for example - on lvl 6 an adc auto loses unless he is absolutely nuked on initial engage. Some champs just have good early base damage and ADC's are made to scale, therefore weak early as a balance. Hence, almost anything can just walk into botlane and become a 'thing'.
The meta has shifted to the point where support midlaners are more valuable so technically the highest tier pick could actually be soraka might not be a bad pick to try.
hey guys, and dobby, can I ask. Isnt this the perfect pyke meta... immobile squishy adcs, without much peel either. They get shafted early game so late game gets negated. What do you think though
I mean yeah, early to mid support income combined with early dmg items like dirk makes sense for an adc support to get ahead and then proceed to stat check the enemy adc lane.
Jhin support actually makes sense, the rest is troll pick... In proplay Cait worked well because well he is Keria and the whole match was T1 sided, he could have played Garen sup and T1 still won. Cait sup in mid/late game is useless there are far way better options to pick. Twich supp can work like a second jungler but still you will fall off if the team didnt snowball in the first 10mins. Just check last DRX game Beryl Twich support, sure it was a nightmare for toplane the first minutes but then he was useless the whole game. This is more a damage problem that Rito need to fix.
I main Thresh. Lemme tell you, Cait, Ashe, Twitch, Heimerdinger, Lissandra, Brand, Varus, Kalista. I haven’t seen a single normal support against me this season (yet) :(
Ap varus is the best build to take as your burst becomes so astronomically high that you can single handedly carry games no matter the team comp if you play right.
I mean twitch support has been a thing since along time ago Ratirl use to always play it all the time, which was basically the first one to play AP twitch support when he got AP buffs.
if your adc ain't straight up trash, any champ works viable as a support player (I've seen a draven/darius duo bot lane before and it was brutal, not to mention hilarious as a themed duo) I pretty much have Caitlyn banned permanently, she's a complete nightmare as either ADC or support As for counters; weak mentals and tilted ignorant players, which makes this strat a bit hard to pull off in low elos
Jayce support is fun, so long as you have a comp that can either snowball off your early knockback speedups. otherwise you just dont get enough gold or xp for it to work out for a 25min game. if its a 35+ or 15min its playable.
Ngl, we always play Thresh adc and Quinn support since before Senna exist. We always play adc as support and the support as carry because it more effective. And it more fun to see people try to kill me while friend do all the job.
I've been having a lot of fun playing zone control mage as support into these adcs. I find orianna, viktor and syndra really good into adc sups I don't think nerfs have to come in, just find different counters
But is this meta really desirable? Like who tf wants to watch this shit? I thought it was bad with Ardent Censer at 2017 Worlds and the Mage ADC meta but it’s only gotten worse.
@@mushiim8 There are many counters just wait for players to find out. There is also the fact that 2 adc bot is strong early but is terrible after 15min like they are not allowed to go even or down out the laning phase since they will get turbo stomped by the jng/mid/top
Twitch support sorta works in solo queue because he just ganks overextended laners, but sucks in pro play because they just play safe and watch him deal no damage later on. The rest of these only exist because Keria and Beryl are abusing how strong marksmen are in lane + support item gold to create insurmountable level 1-3 advantages. And they'll all be gone in a couple of patches when the engage supports are back.
hey dobby, I want to ask you something. A while back, like 2 years ago, when an impostor channel I forgot the name of was stealing and subtitling your videos as if it was their own, they published a video named something like how to play jungle or how the enemy jungle always carries or tips and tricks to jungle. In that video, the last 2 minutes were tarzan playing topside lee sin in the jungle, getting ganked lv1, losing his blue? buff, and the video showed how he came back winning from that game. Is there any possibility I can find that video, could you help me with that? even untranslated would be fine, I just loved the comeback of that game, I would be glad if you could help
At this point riot should make a marksman support mythic... It could give 40AD 20 AS, gives no crit but gives the umbral glaive passive and as a mythic passive 5% crit... Cost? 2500 Gold, composed of BF Sword and 2 daggers and the support item as a component... Also they could rework support items and their mythics so support items are direct components of mythics... that way you dont have to nerf radiant virtue cause supports build it... This way you can keep adc supports at bay, playable and balanced just by touching their mythics...
ive always thought damage supports would just be better than enchanters and other support types if a bunch of people started doing it. probably more engaging for whoever’s playing support too
I dont think this is necessarily a bad thing. Lets not forget that the whole 5 role thing wasn't even originally a hard set thing by game design, it was organic from the playerbase too. Nothing wrong with a changing or evolving game
Agreed, but balance team doesn’t agree. This’ll get nerfed out of existence like support item toplane, Viego sololane, Gwen Jungle, Sett and Pantheon support, mages in botlane, Rakan nautilus mid etc Sylas jungle is allowed to exist right now because he hasn’t entered pro play yet. But these marksmen supports are all over pro play representation, and thus will get removed soon
There is nothing organic about leagues meta it is all decided by riot. They want you to play the game one way that is why we have roles the way they are. As soon as something comes up like ADC supports they will do everything to remove it.
Evolving? This game is evolving backwards, Theres nothing good or appealing about any of this, all of this câncer is allowed cuz riot balancing team didnt quit their job Those paycheck stealing sex offenders ass rats
This is only possbile because support champs have been made intentionally less useful and impactful as the game progressed. This sort of gameplay would have never been a thing in high chall elo during ardent days when supports could carry. Nowadays healing reduction is much easier to buy and get and it is less impactful on your overall dmg. The debuff was even increased to -60% because of broken ass champs like Aatrox, Samira and Aphelios who built death dance and healed for crazy amounts of hp in teamfights while also making them extremely tanky because of its passive. The healing reduction debuff directly makes Soraka, one of the traditional supports, unable to make a significant impact on the outcome of the games since her whole identity, which is to heal, can be easily countered with 800g item. Yuumi and Sona heal as well but they provide other utility and more reliable cc. Not to mention they have access to barriers which Soraka doesn't. Her W already drains her HP which makes little sense in the current state of the game. There was a patch that made all support shield's duration shorter. Lulu could loop her E on a target before that one. And Janna's shield never decayed. What is the point of it decaying anyway? Compare champs like Janna and the newly released champions. Viego has a wall of text for a passive. Janna gives slight movement speed bonus. Can't remember the last time a strong support was released since Yuumi, which was also much hated cuz it's literally the embodiment of a supportive playstyle. You heal, you shield, you provide utility, can't do much on your own but when you team up, you are a force to be reckoned with.
The poke supports items are giving too much gold, that's why people have been also playing mages bot for ages now. With a lane dominant character, in a game state where botlane is a constant bloodbath, you are no longer playing without resources (at least early on, for your first 2 items) I guess Riot did this to make the role more popular, just like when they released Pyke and Senna.
remember when riot nerfed all crit items back in like... s10? s11? max crit going from 25% to 20%?..... and then the durability patch to also reduce damage.... and now, just straight up buffing adcs themselves.
You mean to tell me that dealing damage is preferable in a game that is notorious for favoring damage dealers? Who needs tanking when a few autos and abilities can melt a fed champ that has built tanky?
Do you realize every champ works better as support that enchanters? Mage, tanks, adcs, fighters... all of them work better as support that the ones specific for the role.
Ive been playing varus support on wild rift for a while now and i must say, he is so underrated i go full lethality / ad pen, ive been out performing my clueless adc almost every game in master/gm elo. Some how ppl still preffer ashe but idk varus feels better dps wise
lately my duo an I have been playing a farming mage with senna, twitch, or jhin sup & absolutely taking over our plat games, the enemy just can't play in a traditional lane, its so obnoxious
@@evilman8970 yknow they put the ad support item in for a reason, right? Its obviously though for senna as a priority, but they didnt just add an item back then thinking of it as useful for just 1 champion
Honeslty, it feels weird to watch the high elo meta. I’ve been low diamond ever since i’ve started picking up league, and to me it really doesn’t make sense to just run around with 2 squishy champs with low utility on the later stages of the game. Is it the plan to just stomp lane and end the game before team fighting with peel is necessary?
Been playing twitch sup a lot last season. Generally come out with a good kda, but games still can go bad, your adc can still flame you for roaming even if you are putting mid in the dirt. Just remember to mute lol
The problem aren't those guys, it's simply that lethality and espacially umbral glaive are busted items for any champion, no matter the role. They wouldn't be able to do do what they do without the flat armor pen.
In typical Riot fashion they will try make these picks dissapear. But honestly as a support main who also plays adcs. Its fun to pick them sometimes. Playing Enchanters all the time or mages gets tedious
Engage supports imo are 10x more fun than mages and enchanters. The satisfaction of landing that Nautilus hook or Amumu bandage or Pyke's blade is extremely satisfying.
People have been playing many different champions in support role for years. It's just in soloq they you're trolling if you pick Vayne support into tank supports. All it takes just some pro players to pick it 1-2 times and it suddenly becomes okay to pick those champions. You can literally pick any champion into any role, most people just want to go outside of the box🤔🤔🤔
This is fine. Support was meant to be the flex and is meant to be adaptable and free to use whatever. Heck man I've done bruiser AD/AP hybrid Rek'Sai Support against Blitzcrank.
So thats the reason i seen multiple supp kalista in my rank game those poor basters thinks they are some kind of korean challenge even tho they are hard stack in plat with me Btw theres one game i have were kalista supp and zeri almost beat my bot (sera and kaisa) thx god i help my mid got prio to help put the fire down before it got out of control
almost perfect team without jungle as idk which adc can be fit there but for toher roels will be vayne/draven top. mid akshan/varus. bot adc all fo them support varus/jhin/kalista.
