I've ditched all the Adobe products when they implemented their subscription-only policy, and when you start to study the alternatives, you're actually realize how crappy Adobe products was in the first place.
Familiarity is a strong motivator in staying with Adobe, especially when one has used it for decades. When one has to find time from nowhere to learn another piece of software, it's easier to put change on the back burner. So I'm still with Adobe - simply because I can't find time to change.
@@rsmallfield Don't mean to be rude, but that's exactly why companies like Adobe will continue their ugly practices - because people like you will cope with any BS out of habit, laziness or whatever it is, and will stay hooked, and paying. Doing so, you're doing yourself a very bad service, but that's your choice, I guess.
I did choose Darktable because PS/LR were the last bit of software which stopped me to going to Linux. Aurelien Pierre, the creator of a lot of Darktable modules, has a ~1h video on his basic darktable workflow. After that, most people should be good to go and will get viable results. The workflow in Lightroom often is learning by doing. Something I would not advice people to do with Darktable. Also some tutorials of darktable are getting highly complex on how the software works on the background. So watch out for tutorials which will show you a workflow or people who will live develop their pictures to get new ideas on how to use the software to your liking. In generally Iam happy that you now have waay more options regarding raw editing software. Like 7+ good and viable options with different forms of payments and for different operating systems.
I really don't think anyone who is new to Darktable needs to watch a 1-hour tutorial on how to develop a photo. To get deeper understanding? Sure. But it's not something beginners should do.
Less than half of an hour before I watched this video, I was describing the difference between Darktable and Lightroom to someone. I used the analogy that DT is like a powerful racecar and LR is like a minivan! I nearly fell off my chair when I watched and heard your nearly identical comments!
This is a very fair comparison of DT. I found it interesting that I describe to my photography student that LR is the automatic car that is a pleasure to drive around town and to the shops for groceries and Darktable is the Lamborghini that you want to drive on the really fun roads. You make a similar analogy in your comparison.
My editing needs are rather simple and LrC would suffice, but not being able to share/split/copy/manually manage database and photos was a true show stopper. Glad I came across DT and learned so much about the process as well.
I was a long time LRc user. I had dabbled with darktable off and on for a few years. Last summer I switched over to darktable full time. It has been a learning experience. It takes a lot of practice and fiddling around to get the desired results. You are absolutely correct in that regard. I am running darktable on an M1 Mac mini and honestly the speed, while not as fast as LRc is plenty acceptable. If I were trying to make a living doing photography I would likely be using LRc since as you say it is fast and easy to get good results. However, I am not and I like having the absolute control of darktable. darktable is an incredibly powerful tool but it is easy to "crash into a wall" with it. It takes some time to learn what works and what doesn't work in different scenarios. I find myself taking a lot of photos of mundane things just to practice my editing skills in darktable. I find the DRM side of darktable to be perfectly useable but my needs are pretty meager. Thanks for the video it was interesting to see someone else's take on this subject.
My dad uses all the Adobe software on his Mac and tried to get me to do the same. He had gotten me first PS Elements 11 I think, and then Adobe CS6, but I could never get into lightroom, and I'd still use Photoshop for everything. When I had an issue that required a reinstall a few years later, I found out that Photoshop had switched to online access and I couldn't download my plugins for raw images, so I switched to Darktable. I was also using both Mac and Ubuntu on Mac hardware at the time, and Darktable worked on both. The main reason I had Ubuntu, Kdenlive (a free video editor) now works on Mac, so I tend to use my own suite of free software to replace Adobe. Usually I still need to put things into GIMP after I use Darktable to add my name/watermark and sometimes do some extra stuff like the bandaid tool or some smudging, but if you have a clear idea in mind and a good enough idea of what to do, it's great having more control and not having to pay for stuff. The only issue is just that it takes so long for new camera support to be added. I got the Canon R7 that came out about a year and a half ago, and I still can't open the raw files in Darktable, so I downloaded the Canon software instead.
Some years ago (+10) I was doing sports photography. I had two regular clients and one occasionally. I did use Lightroom, it was the best I could find at the time. I will say I have not tried Darktable, I only know what I have heard here. I am just an old amateur photographer now. For me, speed was number one. I was always at the event with a writing journalist. We both went home to finish our respective work. The articles were for online use. I had approx. an hour to get my pics ready. Usually 20-30 pictures. So it is around 2 min per picture. Selections out of about 200 pics, and touching up, and in the end export and upload. I would not have been satisfied with a slower program. Looking back, I wish I could have had the newest LR. Don't get me wrong, I am not an Adobe fan, but the speed LR works with now, was an unimaginable dream at the time. My point: Speed is also a quality. That's why I think that programs, like LR, still have a big future. News are faster and faster, and it is all a battle getting the news online as fast as possible.
I've been searching for a comparison like that for quite a while now and finally found this one. I think it's fantastic and just long enough to tell the differences. Well done thank you!
The biggest disadvantage to Lightroom for me, is there is no way for me to use it. I've never used it, I'd like to give it a try. They do offer a trial, but it requires a creditcard and automatically starts a paid subscription after the trial period, which defeats the purpose of a trial. Photography is a hobby for me, I do it for people for free. I can justify a one time payment to buy equipment and software, but I can't justify paying for a subscription for a hobby. If Adobe offered a real trial then gave me the option to just let if end or outright buy the software, they might have some of my money. Darktable is fine. The results are exquisite. I don't mind putting in a little more work editing each individual photo. I find it kind of therapeutic.
Lightroom $20/m or $50-70 for full adobe suite. Or Darktable... Free. 😅 Like if your going back to the car analogy. Do you want a Rally car for free, Or do you want to pay a premium for that leased honda civic? ~~ Also Eagle Photo Manager is actually a great light room alternative for only $20 if you want a simpler tool.
If you’re free to dive deep into image processing with Darktable, it’s probably fair to say that you’re free to be as shallow as you want as well. This is in stark contrast to the “we do the work for you” approaches implemented by companies like Adobe and Apple. Once you hit the limit of their UI, that’s as far as you can go. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to “Open in Photoshop” from Lightroom because of this limitation. Being a proponent of organization, especially when talking about hundreds of thousands of image files, the mess that can produce over time is a huge OCD trigger.
I appreciate the honesty of this video. Like you I've been with LR since it was created. For years it was free and well, wonderful. Then, out of nowhere to me, they started charging a monthly fee. Wait, what?! Ok, I get back in the day the software was always pricey. I mean, in the 90's we're talking about 4-500 or even higher depending on what Adobe software one wanted. Now though, I have to pay a monthly fee for the rest of my life?! Which means I've not only paid for the software but will continue to keep "buying" it forever?! GTFOH!!! This is why torrent stuff still lives. I was looking for an alternative to LR. I have purchased some Luminar products and have had some fun with that. But tweaking photos isn't as good. I need another LR. And this looks like the way to go. And though the company states they're not a replacement, to me, you are! I mean I know what they mean but just don't care. Too frustrated to pay for something for the rest of my life like a piece of software!
Big, big part of why I started looking for alternatives was the software-as-a-service thing. Both, for having to pay a monthly fee, literally, for the rest of your life, AND not owning it in any way.
let's not forget the color swap, which you might need when you do infrared photography. LR is almost unusable and even in PS it takes several adjustments. In DT just one click :)
darktable also allows you to essentially use a 3D LUT, with the ‘filmic rgb’ module acting as a log shaper (‘look’ section all zeroed out, e.g. contrast, latitude etc). when you’re building the LUT, just make sure to undo the previous filmic rgb log shaper accordingly, re-do another log transform of choice, like arri logC or cineon, AND THEN add the display transform/image formation chain of choice, then export and use the LUT with the lut 3d module. so in theory you can use arri k1s1, AgX, or any image formation chain inside darktable. (slight drawback would be the fact that the ‘filmic rgb’ module applied some chroma compressions to the upper and lower regions/values, which is not desirable if all you’re looking for is a simple log2 shaper/transform)
What does that even mean?? Are you speaking English?? I have had darktable for ages & I can't use it! I have watched tutorial videos but my use of it is basic to say the least, I have made a couple of B&W images with just colour in the eyes, when I tried to show my grandson how I did it it wouldn't work at all, no matter how many times I tried!
I use darktable but sometime I wish it was easier to use and would also provide some more advanced retouch features. Not all sliders are self-explainatory.
I very much agree that Darktable is not new-user-friendly. But it's very difficult to be self-explanatory, when this much of control is given to the user. Therefore, Darktable has an extensive user manual, where you can use the search to find advanced description of every single thing in the software: docs.darktable.org/usermanual/4.0/en/
I can appreciate what you said abput having full control and being able to go in and tweak every single option. However, for me personally - who is very nerdy - still need the speed of being able to process many images fast. And I already think lightroom is still a bit too laggy at times, so seeing Darktable's refresh speed would drive me nuts.
The sluggish editing kills it for me, absolute nightmare to adjust an image with the feeling of a slider being attached to the control via a floppy elastic band, having said that I would never “rent” software so Adobe is never a consideration for me.
It's not as bad as I showed in the video with Day-to-Day developments. The fact is that Lightroom never bogs down, because you're not building a pipeline, so ir never gets as complex as it gets in Darktable.
Not sure if it's a new version feature in Darktable but if you right click the slider it goes into continuous update mode so you can see the changes as you adjust the value by moving the mouse. It's done on a log scale too which is quite nice since it means sensitive adjustments are easier.
And how does it compare with C1? I found C1 be vastly superior over Lightroom. In C1 most of the time even the default automatic processing is often sufficient and the colors are always correct, whereas in Lightroom I had to use dedicated self made color profiles for some of my lenses, there were just no way to get the colors right... It is the last piece of software keeping me from completely switching to Linux...
Darktable should be superior to C1. Last time I tried C1 the results were barely better than Lightroom. Darktable just have tools that almost no other photography software does. It's completely up-to-date with the latest goodies, while industry dinosaurs like C1 or LR are scared to move forward because changes upset the user bases.
Because nothing about the software packages changed drastically enough in a year, to warrant me remaking the exactly the same video with a different title.
Actually, Darktable as of 4.6 is very fast on my M1 max 32gb MacBook Pro. Previous versions were slow and that's why a kept my lr subscription. I cancelled last week and now I use DT and Affinity 2.
Very comprehensive presentation. Thanks. I was looking for an alternative to Adobe, especially Lightroom. Adobe has become a highway robber. Beyond the reach of many serious but poor enthusiasts. Could you also shed some lights, how DR can do something usually done by Photoshop?
Darktable has a serious flaw in the D&S sharpening module. In LrC you only need one slider and the effects are much better than two instances of the D&S module in DT Besides, we have perhaps 13 sliders there and it's worth graduating to understand how they work 😂
Ha ha ha! I guess I just decided to go for the minivan... I've used Darktable for a few months now and I do find it very powerful. However, it crashes on me from time to time and the user interface is a bit of a moving target from one version to the next. Also, some concepts like the Scene-referred and Display-referred workflows are a bit awkward and muddy the water; for portability reasons, the Scene-referred workflow seems to be the best one of the two (according tp Aurélien Pierre also), but then all of the Display-referred workflow modules are still around and polluting the interface. somewhat. I am sure I will still want to use DT from time to time, especially its parametric mask which is incredible. Lightroom is expensive, but being almost retired, I will soon have enough free time to justify the cost of the Photography plan at 9.99/month, which gives access to Lightroom, Lightroom Classic and Photoshop. Anyway, I do like this car analogy. It is spot on!
Long time ago also used LR but moved to Capture One which is far better than LR and now Darktable - for me, as you mentioned for LR, samesame - much much faster with Capture One than Darktable but Darktable is really much much better and much much slower. THX, …
Great video as always! Being able to mask any module is such a crazy feature that I really miss when I'm on LrC. However, one thing I def miss from LrC when I'm using DT are the auto-selection tools when masking, big time savers.
I will cancel my LR subscription. So easy to get better results with Darktable. Only the masks are a bit painful to use but you don't need to use them so often with Tone Egalizer.
Great video and I love that you went straight to the point. Q: So what would be a good alternative to Lightroom, if darktable ain't it? What's a comparable minivan? 🙃
I've heard good things about Capture One. But I think it uses a similar colour process to Lightroom. Filmulator ir another Open Source project that seems to take care of colours and has a simpler interface than Darktable, but I'm not sure if it's still maintained. I'd strongly recommend getting familiar with Darktable. It's worth it!
@@StudioPetrikas oh don't get me wrong! I am much more in the camp of darktable, if only because... Linux. But I kind of overlooked their own description and since you highlighted it, I'm curious what would also be "easier" and "straight to the point" as Lightroom is. I've used Capture One a fair bit since switching to Fuji, but they've moved away from Express being free, sooo... Back to Darktable I've been. Ive never heard of Fimulator. I'll have a look! Thanks.
That analogy works really well. I tend to do use a few different programs, and it all depends on what I'm using. Usually I do a lot in Canon DPP4 which I get access to from having Canon gear. I started using it when I got tired of waiting for Darktable to add CR3 support after getting a mirrorless camera. Darktable was my go-to when I shot in CR2 format, and it's usually the second step in my editing process if I need some extra stuff that the Canon one just doesn't give you as much control over. Plus, DPP4 ones allow you to save your edited files as CR3, which DT now supports so I can keep using raw files for both steps. I then save it as TIFF, and if it's a really rough photo, I have the Topaz Denoise AI, and can run it through that, but usually I do final tweaks and add my name and the year in GIMP. Could someone do all those edits using just Photoshop and its various add ons? Probably. But do I want to pay for Adobe and still not have as much control? Nope. Plus, the main draw of Darktable to me, especially when used in combination with GIMP, is that they work on all operating systems. Adobe and Canon's software look slightly different on Mac than Windows, and don't support any other systems. Darktable has worked perfectly on the Ubuntu based laptop I have, so when I'm busy using my Mac for something else, like rendering a video for 2 hours, I can still edit photos on anything else.
Thank you Gus! Beeing an Linux customer I'm completely blind to Lightroom realm but so much more I highly appreciate your comprehensive remarks on these image editing software. 👍
I found your channel no so long ago, your videos are very very good! your approach is technical but very practical at the same time (hard to find). Your videos about Filmic RGB are amaizing. Regarding this comparison you nailed!! completely agree with every word. Only one thing you forgot to mention, Darktable is multiplatform, there is not lightroom version for Linux. That could be the only feature that make some people the decision. Keep doing more videos!
My experiences with Lightroom (LR) are minimal, I use Capture One C1) and occasionally DxO Photolab ( in one workflow). The rendering both of raw and jpeg is far better in C1 than in Darktable (DT). The DT modules are often overloaded with the color grading at the top. Changes in parameter values are less obvious so the leaning curve is flat. For me the Module sequence is not very transparent and the handbook partially difficult to understand. There are no layers so that different processing steps for a certain area can not be concentrated, instead modules have to be multiplied. Although I appreciate the bundle of computational masking types the lack of pixel based masks makes it difficult to fine tune them. Besides my huge amount of C1 based catalogues those above problems make it difficult for me to switch to DT - and to Linux. P.S. C1 and DxO still offer a life long license.....
"The rendering both of raw and jpeg is far better in C1 than in Darktable (DT)" - Not sure what you mean by "rendering". If you mean that you get better results - that's down to the user. And the user has more control in Darktable. "The DT modules are often overloaded with the color grading at the top" - This is simply not true. You're free to use as many or as few modules as you wish. I think you have too many misconceptions about Darktable. I strongly recommend watching a few tutorials on the basic image development in Darktable, it is really nowhere near as complicated as people make it out to be (as long as you understand the image development pipeline).
@@StudioPetrikas Sorry, especially color grading and filmic rgb are so overloaded. As far as the workflow concerns the sequence is crucial but the guidelines difficult to understand. Also the rendering of unprocessed images is very different. And what about layers and masks? P.S. I tried to test Darktable for months (tending to leave Windows completely) and have seen mor than hundred tutorials....
@@WMedl Well, you are once again comparing a racing car to a minivan. The 'filmic rgb' module has just enough tools to give you full control of the image formation. What you are getting in software like Lightroom or C1 is 'ballpark estimations' of what *should* look good; they're often good enough, but you simply have no control of the process. You cannot preview a raw file without processing it first. What you are previewing without processing is the embedded jpg. Unless you are able to look at a table of numbers and see an image (Matrix-style). Every module can be masked and most modules can be duplicated (simulating layers).
@@StudioPetrikas You always see a sort of jpeg also in DT! As a painter I am primaraly interested in th look though I do not neglect physics or chemistry (in painting)! And what about masks?
In Darktbale, you see the "jpg" as a thumbnail only as prievew. Once you load the raw file into darkroom, there are a few modules that will get enabled, to properly preview the raw. And those modules are under your control. Masks can be applied to each module individually, as I've mentioned earlier. Darktable has incredibly potent masking tools.
darktable is the only reason why i feel secure if i would ever need to give up on lightroom. the only reason why im still using lightroom is theres no real substitute for photoshop and substance painter. and if i am going to use those two, then might as well just stick to the ecosystem coming back to lightroom. there are many features that has been on darktable and capture one for ages, that only now does lightroom adapt.. but like you said, lightroom is fast at processing them that at the end, lightroom do really feel more "professional" to use... also, the car analogy you used was briliant.. i didnt know how to explain them before until i watched your video ^_^
Great comparison, well presented! I use manual mode/raw files and I've been using Darktable for several years, it’s the only program I use for all my digital developing. I do use LR for a quick edit for iPhone pics but only as a secondary source to work on my iPad.
The biggest advantage to make the switch to Darktable: as you mentioned you don't own Lightroom, you are just renting it. So if you ever stop paying, you don't have access any-longer to your edits!! The current pricing for Adobe Photography (Lightroom and photoshop) in Europe is around EUR 12 per month, totaling to a small EUR 150 a year. Imagine you start using LR and or PS on the age of 30 and you retire around 60 (lucky you!) you spend around EUR 4500 (excluded inflation) for the rent of a piece of software. That's a lot for something you don't own. A now, are you continuing paying while being retired? Adding an other EUR 4500 if you might reach 90 years of age? When do you stop paying? Because as a photographer, you probably still want to take some pictures in you private life, while travelling around after a busy work-life. Or an old client contacts you for some small adjustments on a project you did years ago. If you don't continue paying them, all you have is your RAW's and (hopefully) high res exports but your edits and catalogs are gone. Therefor, and that on it's own, is more then sufficient reason to make to switch to Darktable (or Rawtherapee) or any other piece of software that let you buy a perpetual license, which will remain valid until the end of days. And as far as I see it now (thanks @Studio Petrikas) Darktable is an excellent replacement, which will take a bit of time to get adjusted to, but it will pay off in the end.
@@MaybeTiberius That’s also another option, but being a business user I can’t really afford to download cracked software, so I prefer to make the switch now and start learning how to overcome any discrepancies in the alternative software.
@@dillardblom3312 if you run a business it might be a different story. however the ''cracked software'' argument kind of reminds me of windows xp era. you dont download ''cracked software'' . you download the original software through adobes original adobe cloud app. you just block the software from calling back home afterwards, wich isnt much different to just cutting your internet connection for the most part
How do you manage your pictures? I got more than 10000 files and I can't get rid or LrC because nothing manages my pictures properly... The closest I had was shotwell, but I can't easily move the database. I broke it once and it was a PITA to fix. I'll use literally anything if it can reliably import, avoid duplicating and quickly browse my pictures. I liked your tutorials and I love darktable, but I feel trapped.
Lightroom's catalogues are really nice. However, it is possible to set up Darktable to behave a similar way. I'm using Darktable to manage my photos, but it's not perfect for my taste. I keep on looking for ways to improve it, and I'm having slow success. Maybe there's hope.
Have you tried digiKam? As long as you set it to write metadata to the files or sidecars, the database is mostly a convenience. I use Rapid Photo Downloader for importing, digiKam for managing, and Darktable for editing.
I started using DT because I am a fan of open source and did not want to commit to a purchase/monthly fee as a hobbyist. Overtime I found that DT has pushed me to learn more about how to process pictures. I could see how easy it would be to buy a pak of presets and just click some buttons with LR. I am not sure the LR would push me to learn about how to make colors look good.
I have been using Lightroom since version 1.4 (so looking time user) I have lots of catalogues and thousands of pictures developed through Lightroom. I've been questioning if I should leave Lightroom (I don't like Adobe very much and already switched to Davinci Resolve for video editing) but Darktable has been very complex for me to grasp (I haven't had enough free time to sit and really learn), but the mayor drawback I've seen is that I find that Darktable is not very good for fast edits or for batch editing, when I have large photoshoots I have to edit from 20 to 100 photos time is very important and from what I have seen Darktable is not good for working fast. Other issues are that on Mac OS it doesn't behave as precise as it does on Linux or windows, and DT brush masks are just not really usable in my workflow. I wish I could switch to DT but I'm still not sure I can, I would also need to find a way to manage catalogs and photoshoots that's is as good as LR
Funny enough, I received a very similar comment yesterday, here's my reply: ------ "For people who shoot Sports, Weddings, etc. and require to do a large amount of photos, with lots of modifications - Lightroom is difficult to beat. That being said, I think I'm now able to match the speed of Lightroom with Darktable, but not Lightroom + Photoshop tandem. Some additional info: You can also Cull (mark as rejected, flag, rate) photos in Darktable. You do also have Styles (Presets in Lightroom) in Darktable. In addition, each module and each function is able to store presets of it's own. So even after you apply a style, you can have many stored presets of each 'tool' or 'function'. The real slowdown happens during the processing stage. The actual adjustments take a lot of time to process, as it takes a rather long time to export the images. My recommendation would be to keep using Lightroom, but make yourself comfortable in Darktable - it will pay off later on!" ------ While 20-100 seems a lot, it's not a problem for Darktable at all. You can develop one capture, create a style of it, and re-apply that to the rest. Then, make adjustments individually as necessary. Again, the software that is going to be the fastest, is the one you are used to. My recommendation stands: get familiar with Darktable, and start phasing out Lightroom. Darktable will only get faster, but Lightroom has already hit the ceiling of it's capabilities (without doing a MAJOR software overhaul)
I agree with what you said, It's a comfort thing, I need to really take the time to explore DT deeply, I just downloaded the manual. DT has good tools for culling that LR doesn't even offer. Some simple things I found in DT that LR doesn't have is, for example, the ability to add multiple color tags to one photo (I don't like that in LR you can just use one color tag per photo) other tools such as focus peak and focus areas to check the focus on every picture is just amazing. I think your rally car vs mini van analogy is just on point. I'll watch more of your videos to try and grasp DT even better, maybe switching to DT can be my new years resolution 😁. One thing that makes it difficult for me to abandon LR is that many times I work with other people and sharing LR catalogs, presets and profiles is quite simple, DT seems designed for solo work (hope I'm wrong about this).
@@musasoyyo DT doenst have any cloud based backbone where you could share your pictures. So that would be an hard feature to include. On the other hand, you just need that little XMP sidecar file that includes all the edits. A little neat trick regarding editing alot of pictures. You often have pictures where you would need to do the same basic adjustments. Do one of them, go to the lighttable view, hoover over that picture, strg+c. Now hoover over the picture where you want to have the same edits done and press strg+v. Over the time you will also find your own style in Dt or be able to recreate your LR style and use filters for basic color grading, which makes the work much more slimline.
Yeah as soon as i saw that it needs 3 sec to render changes it was dead to me I have no idea how you can recommend that then - its an art after all, if i cant see what i change smoothly it wont turn out as good
This was an edge-case scenario, of layers upon layers of modules. Darktable is slower than Lightroom - yes. But at the power that Lightroom gives, Darktable is only very slightly slower. Is this the very first video of Darktable you've watched?
@@StudioPetrikas yeah. Dont get me wrong i think its amazing. To me i can just easily see that it would be smarter to make it a 10 bucks a year subscription so you can pay an ui expert to redesign the menus, or like the other dev seems to be doing in the r version.
If you are only processing a few photos at a time, any of the freebies will do what you want. If you have a lot of photos (100-200) or so to edit quickly, it has to be Lightroom.
@@StudioPetrikas I play with tons of things (incl. filmic) in 32 bit in vray's frame buffer with zero lag. Is it also due to being more primitive? Anyway, hope the DT devs will optimize the code even further. I have a problem exporting an edited *32 bit exr* from DT to PS - it doesn't look the same at all. is it possible to get 100% matching? Thank you!
