The last time this engine ran, it was in a Canadian all-weather interceptor built in the 1950s. It's an Orenda Type 11, removed from an Avro CF-100 sometime after 1962.
In my fathers early days of engineering, he worked at AVRO. If I recall correctly, he designed one of the cooling tubes between some section, and a part for the charging system. He left the company before the big project. I did get to see the Orenda engine with him many years ago when the AVRO air historic show came through Winnipeg's aviation museum. Thank you for this memorable video.
Thank you for the historical connection. We who work on these engines realize that all the real experts are no longer able to help us, but we sure wish they could!
Came across you when you'd commented on another video - lucky break for me. Took watching one of your videos to get you a sub. Keep up the great work preserving our Canadian aviation history, and showing it to the world.
A longstanding Canadian tradition; running a jet engine in a snow storm to keep warm!! Thanks for the video. There is a CF-100 on a pedestal at Haliburton, Ont. next to the high school; at least there was a decade ago. Probably others around Canada in a few places.
Amazing such high quality precision engineered and built way back in the 1950's no less ! This is the first time we can really see the Jet Wash and how far it goes...the snow is an excellent visual aid here. Just amazing !
I got to go to an open doors event in Mississauga where they have a CF-100 mounted on a pedestal in a park. This is around the corner from where the Avro Arrow factory was. At the event one of the pilots regailed tales of flying the plane. One of the interesting stories was another CF-100 had an oxygen failure and the pilot was unconcious. They had to fly up and very gingerly use their wing to tip the other planes wing to get it to bank and lose altitude. I also liked the story about escorting an Avro Arrow on a speed run and being completely and totally left in the dust. The CF-100 is a lovely plane.
Tempted to run out to Malton, Ontario to do some video of the CF-100 on display there, haven't seen it in years. Kind of run down after all these years, but still cool. Great video! Imagine 2 of these babies screaming on the tarmac. Ha! The mystique surrounding that area has all but died down these days. I don't know that half the people driving through really know or care how much stuff was developed there.
This was just plain cool! 5:40 even the cinematography is great! Makes me appreciate that there's still people around running these old engines and even sharing them with us. Thanks Jay! Also did you not change the oil after having it sit for over 50 years?
+lazaglider Thanks! There are one or two dedicated haters out there who make sure to dislike almost every one of my videos. I'm just glad they are watching!
Hi Jay, Merry Christmas to you and yours. A set of questions for you, how much does weather effect testing these engines? Is the effect measureable? And what is the most effect on the performance, cold weather allowing more power due to more air molecules packed into a given volume of air? Or would it be a small loss of power in rain/stormy due to lower atmospheric pressure? Another great video, you never disappoint always makes my day to see a new video in my subscription.
+hommie789 Air density has a big effect on jet engine performance. Pressure and temp both are very important to air density. Exactly how much? There are equations and tables to help pilots figure that out every time they prep for takeoff. I don'y have them here, but they are google-able.
Sure hope they get a CF-100 down here in London Ont..lots of T-33's and North Bays last Voodoo....My Dad ended his career with 414SQN and to honor him and his battle against cancer I got the 414SQN Black Knight tat on my left arm ( I was Infantry1RCR) Would love to go for a flight in the new Red Knight T-33...thanks for posting...meant to mention Dad was avionics tech
The sound of the engine must be even louder in this hollow metal wall enclosed space. Outside, the sound waves energy would simply dissipate into the atmosphere. But here, the sound wave get reflected off the walls, causing all kinds of reverberations. The sound amplitude levels in this test room must be incredible, because all this energy is enclosed in the room, reflecting back in itself; it must be incredibly loud.
AgentJayZ I always wonder though, how much of the turbojet sound is produced by the bearings grinding and such, and how much of the sound comes from the air flow itself.
Bonjour M. Jay ! just for information, Canadair was officially open in 1944 in Montréal ! but history said it began with Canadian Vickers also in Montréal around 1912 were the build first ships ! and after, wood aircrafts and this is how it all start... Merci et bonne Journée ! Serge
Avro got screwed badly by us. Hopefully Canada learned to NOT listen to their politicians and US gov. The Arrow was the SCHIZZNIZZLE of jet interception. One of my favorites in fact.
Hey Jay, love the videos. Just one quick question, is that engine mounted on just the two aft side mounts? The front to seems to just be floating out there.
+Leo Oliphant Look carefully, and you will see a thin strut holding up the back. The strut is under about 250lbs of compression at rest. Since the engine is mounted in pivots that are below its centerline, the strut is placed under tension as the engine begins to produce thrust. At max output, the strut is under about 1000lbs of tension. No sweat, it's a 7/8" threaded rod,
Hi. Looking all that melted snow I was wondering what temperatures are produced in combustion chambers and what are the temperatures of exhaust air. Thx.
I have seen several "pickled" engines run after a long storage interval. What has to happen before the engine can be (hopefully) successfully run? What is involved in a pre-flight for the test stand after long storage of a used engine?
Excellent! Great to see you've brought a Type 11 back to life, Jay. Now, how about that piece of Canadian history, your Type 13, the legendary Iroquois? When you get that going, it'll be the only one on earth.
Just think 2 of these Orenda 11's powered an Avro Canada CF-100mk.4 piloted by Jan Zurakowski to Mach 1+ on December 18th 1952, making it the first straight wing airbreathing jet interceptor to sustain supersonic speeds.
+Richard van roie A famous flight by a famous pilot. Pretty much killed off the CF-103 project, eh? The CF-103, the "swept-wing" CF-100. was expected to be only marginally faster than the "Clunk" anyway, and if the older plane, already in production, could go supersonic and survive, who needed the hassle of developing anything between the CF-100 and "the next one" -- which turned out to be the Avro Arrow with the Orenda 13s, the Iroquois. Jurakowski went to about Mach 1.06, in an aircraft redlined at Mach 0.85 (although, to be fair, you really can't fly straight down all the time).
Now here's a crazy Q. Looks mighty cold on that test. How do you think things would go with the front doors closed? lol. I imagine a few cool wind vortices, fumes, danger.... but would it be a tad warmer from ambient engine temp and something that has ever been even notionally considered ?
great run, thanks merry christmas.. now, santa, did u notice the "hot spot" from the burner at 1 o'clock at 8:30 as the throttle was increased? thanks for the vid
Hi Jay, I recently discovered your channel and have watched a load of your awesome videos. Thank you for all your effort. I searched for an answer to my question in your videos and Google but cannot find an answer, apologies if it's been asked before. Why does it seem all the engines you work on are really old!? eg. This engine, the T58, the J79... surely the improvements in efficiency/reliability/performance/materials over the last 40-60(!!) years would justify purchasing a newer engine? Is it just the case that development effort has been focussed on turbofans? It boggles my mind
I think most of the stuff they refurbish doesen't get to fly but is either used to run generators or something similiar. Hope some of them do actually fly
If an engine is only used occasionally, the lower financing costs of an old, inefficient engine outweigh the fuel savings of a new engine. It's the same reason why almost all short-haul freighter aircraft are converted from decade-old less-efficient passenger jets and not bought new: freighters usually only fly a few hours a day, while passenger jets are in the air half the time or more.
AgentJayZ Yes, they surely are getting quieter...every time I hear one in the air I swear I can hear what sounds like prop wash...that must be the noise of the big fan.
+ThePugMonkey None of the ear protection we have is adequate on its own for the loudest tests. Combinations must be used, such as over ear plus earplugs, earplugs plus hands over ears, earplugs plus being inside the control room, etc.
What are the flashes of flame out the turbine caused by a the engine is running? Is it rough fuel control, oil leaks or the effect of snow flakes ingested into the engine?
Oh, right. I couldn't remember because that's a boat part, not an engine part, and not something I work on. It was replaced and the boat was back in operation by the next event... a couple weeks later.
Is it possible, to use a contrarotary Francise turbine with slightly bigger diameter between inlet compressor stages instead of a stationary scoops? I am a plane engines newbie, but I think that it could increase compression ratio and decrease compressors stages and overall weigth.
+Piotr Lenarczyk The bell mouth is a simple, effective device, attached temporarily for testing purposes. Your idea contains precision airfoils, spinning parts, bearings,etc. If even possible, it would change the characteristics of the engine, invalidate the test, and be vastly more expensive.
+roomba We connected a fuel line and battery leads. After checking oil level and attaching all necessary sensors, Bill gave me the signal, and I unleashed a flood of electrons. He gave it sparks and sprayed fuel into it...then Kaboom!... engine going!
+princebatswater There's a strut at the back that is holding the engine in angular position. The two pivots in the middle support the engine weight and keep it fixed in a fore and aft position.
+Donald Stanfield After all that time sleeping, this is the first start attempt, and a little throat-clearing is to be expected. Flames belching out the back is a normal start for these first-gen axial flow turbojets.
I've just had an idea, take a high bypass turbofan, and put an afterburner on the back, whenever the afterburner is 'on', all the bypass air is squeezed into the afterburner pipe and is burnt. Would this work?
I've been meaning to ask you, you did a video about oil cooling. If I'm not mistaken do some engines run the engine oil through the fan blades for extra cooling?
+The Texas Gun Guy No, that's never done. Their is sometimes an oil cooler installed in the fan air stream on big turbofans, but no engine I know of runs oil inside the fan blades.
+Anthony Smith: Thank you, I stand corrected, the reason I asked is because I had seen fan blades with what looked like oil holes in them at the bottom. They were equidistant from the front to back, so they would line up on the platen (for lack of the correct word).
+The Texas Gun Guy You might have seen inlet guide vanes (IGVs), in particular, the VIGVs in the Avon, with holes near the trailing edges of the vanes, where anti-icing air is exhausted. From memory, the Tyne turboprop engine used engine/reduction gearbox oil passing through drillings in the intake struts for anti-icing.
+The Texas Gun Guy It has also occurred to me that you might be confusing a cooled turbine blade with a fan blade. Fan blades do not need cooling, but high pressure turbine blades (except those in the early jet engines) most definitely do. I happen to have in my possession an Olympus 593 cooled LP turbine blade. The blade root has a series of holes into which cooling air is blown. The air flows outwards through holes drilled through the aerofoil, to exhaust at the tip. More modern designs of cooled blades have far more complex cooling air passages than this design, which dates back to the 1960s.
+Donald Stanfield Yes, thanks! Right now I'm in Victoria, and have left the mag with Robin, the president of S&S Turbines. Upon my return I want to read the article about the Chrysler turbine car.
I notice your left/right perspective is based on viewing the engine from "behind" i e from where the exhaust goes out. Is there any reason for this? My guts would assume the default is viewing the engine from the front side. Not that it matters, I just found it curious.
+lewsdiod Because... let's face it: the engine makes noise but does nothing visually interesting when viewed from the front. From the rear, we get to see the flames on start up. That is the only reason I try to start my videos... at the start, from the back. Not exactly a big secret, eh?
+lewsdiod The convention that I was brought up with in the industry is that left and right (and direction of rotation) of an engine is defined as 'when viewed from the rear'. That goes for an aircraft, too: the left wing is the one on the left, when facing forward, and the right wing (surprise, surprise) is the one on the right. Beyond that, the engines on, say, a B.747 (or an A380) are numbered from left to right. This reminds me of a joke that I was told, years ago, by a senior Boeing guy. The first officer on a B.747 noticed that the captain would always take a slip of paper out of his brief case, read it, then put it away before the flight. After one flight, he managed to get hold of the slip of paper: it read, "No.1 engine is the furthest one out on your left side."
+lewsdiod Just as you have only one left side, so too an engine, car, airplane, or caribou. Whether I'm facing you or turned away from you, my right and left are still the same. The front of any machine like an auto, jet or tractor is its face.
+Steve Egbert Yeah I realize from the explanations that when you look at it from the perspective of the vehicle, it becomes natural that you're facing the same direction as the vehicle is intended to go. Thanks all :)
