Shout out to both Lenny and Corky! I know it's really hard to understand each other when there are so many differences, but the Aikido community needs this. Even if it is rough, we need more of this. Great job!
Lenny - I like your approach and mindset a lot . . . He (Corky) doesn't understand forward-pressure, physical dominance, and violence. Sadly, he and others like him are so incurrigibly indoctrinated that they may never get it. He's given in to fantastical thinking to preserve his ego and that is why he resists the truth. BTW - the guy in the blue shorts really hit the nail on the head from an outside perspective.
I actually have respect for anyone who would post videos and explain their theory to the world. People can argue about effecttiveness and all. But pay attention, corky sensei doesnt sell his theory as an effective martial arts, but as training of aiki (whatever it should mean, go and ask him). Sly sensei has his own ideas based on his theory and experience. They meet and have discussions at least!
aikido must be updated .stop with the grab my hand and start with a multiple strikes and ground work.thank you sensei lenny for opening aikido students eyes.
It's a shame that this project got mired in agendas pushed by both participants. Lenny and Corky come at Aikido from different ends of the training spectrum so it's no small wonder that their viewpoints are diametrically opposed. That being said, it would have been informative if Lenny and Corky had spoken about their training goals and how their training methods helped them and their students realize those goals. Projects like these have great potential to be platforms for the exchange of ideas by practitioners from all walks of Aikido. Now 72 and having been training and teaching Aikido for better than 40 years, I can appreciate the breadth of training methodologies Aikido offers that enable students to continue practicing and taking ukemi well into their "golden years". Kudos to both Lenny and Corky for getting out there and breaking some new ground.
Thank you so much Sensei Lenny for making Aikido more practical for the modern world. I love and appreciate all of your videos. Much love and respects from Seaside, California.
I'm interested in this discussion between two skilled proponents of a very different mindset. Mr Quakenbush seems certain that it should be possible to control someone who really intends to hurt YOU without hurting THEM. Mr Sly seems equally convinced that this is not possible and a pragmatic, 'end the threat' method is required. I would like to see Mr Quakenbush put on head gear and try using a non-damaging control methods on Mr Sly (wearing gloves) who would be free to strike him if necessary. If Corky can subdue Lenny without injuring him then I think that his point is demonstrated. If he recieves a punch in the face and his techniques fail/have to radically adapt, then I think Lenny's point is demonstrated. Hopefully you can refrain from injuring each other, but without experiencing the difference in approach that full contact strikes necessitate, I don't think it is possible to convince a skeptic. Thank you all for your input.
I think your points are spot on however I would personally like to add that I feel that Lenny Sensei fails to show what his training can do. Quackenbush Sensei grabs Lenny several times in this video and the other and Lenny Sensei claims, for the sake of not wanting to punch his lights out, doesn't do anything but at his particular skill level he should be able to release himself from such a soft type of attack as he can definitely do it against a much harder attack but he seems to waffle and want to rely strictly on his aggression.. In the same way that he claims he could already knock Quackenbush Sensei's lights out, Quackenbush Sensei could have also violently punched his lights out so I feel that was a good place for him to demonstrate his ability to control a person who is putting their hands on him regardless of the state of aggression coming from them. I don't think he can't do it, I'm just saying he should have done it to show he has control whether it's a hard or light attack.
@@hectorchavez7097 You obviously don't train in TenShin Aikido. I say this because the rookie comment you posted. Firstly, Lenny is allowing Corky to explain his principle. Secondly, in TenShin Aikido, you would never let anyone grab your wrist. In Traditional Aikido you see this a lot, but not in TenShin. The 4 principles of TenShin Aikido are: never get punched, kicked, grabbed, or taken to the ground, unless it's on your own terms. A kosadori or katadori would be deflected. No grab would take place. Thirdly, had Corky's grab been honest...then an honest technique could be applied. If you let me grab your wrist...you will never be able to apply a nikyo on me. NEVER. Nikyo is applied off-angle and before the actual grab.
@@ChfBgTlk So when someone is able to to grap a tenshin-practitioner they are lost? What is your definition of a honest attack? How is a no-touch nikkyo applied in Te Shin Aikido?
@@amuthi1 if someone grabs a TenShin aikidoka, it should be on the aikidoka's terms. In other words, because he "allowed" himself to be grabbed. Each situation is different. Nikyo is impossible to apply if the grab is fully locked. Just won't happen if the grabber resists. A nikyo is applied as the grab is happening. You step off angle and begin to roll your wrist before it is fully locked. An honest attack is a strike that is fully committed with full intention to harm you. A grab is not an attack. It's a form of restraint.
The only way Corky will realize that his style or principle of Aikido will not work...is if he experiences a real attack. No one will grab your wrist, unless you are grappling, unless he is a cop, a security guard, a bouncer, or an abusive husband. A wrist grab is not an attack. It's an application for restraint. If someone has the intention to harm you, their first action will not be a grab.
Wrist grabs happen often enough by regular people. Usually it's to get your hand out of the way of their failed sucker punch, and now they're following up with number 2, 3, 4, 5...
Wrist grabs or grabs into garment can be used for dysbalancing and distance-control therefore are a first mode of attack preparing for follow-up attacks to more vulnerable points. You also should take into account, that TMA were developed in times, were different sorts of (hidden) body armour had to be expected and potentially had to be worked around.
@@chriswheeler6838 with all due respect, sir. Please link a real fight video of someone grabbing someone's wrist as a preliminary restraint for an attack as the first attack. I'm not talking about grappling. A street fight. There's 1000's of videos online. I'm interested to see if you can find one. I have never seen anyone grab someone's wrist as the first move in an assault. Except law enforcement et. al. ... or abusive spouses. In which case, they were not intent on harming you until you resisted.
There's an old military saying, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy." I've watched the first two parts of this and Mr Quackenbush keeps saying "but I'm going to continue my attack" meaning he's going to continue with the attack he has planned to make. Then, you can "counter" the attack using traditional Aikido. I agree with this position. However, it only works so long as the attacker continues their attack in the exact manner they start it. So... you can circle away from the attack and perhaps that would work in some cases but we're back to the problem of "no plan survives first contact with the enemy." The instant you make contact, whether you intend them to or not, the dynamics are going to change and BOTH parties are going to react to that contact so BOTH of you will be adapting to the situation in some way. A fight is never static, it's a constantly evolving encounter with it's own kind of energy which neither party entirely controls. When you run into the guy who doesn't care about pain or is used to getting hit, you might break his fingers or wrist but he'll just punch you with broken fingers. But.... I believe these are worthwhile discussions if you want to move Aikido into the modern realm.
When greeted with violence, your violence has to be better than their violence. Your violence can be more severe-a rising arm block that breaks their arm, for example. Or, your violence can be applied nonresistance that redirects their violence and changes it into something that puts a stop to creating more violence-by stopping the bad guy, making him confused and unwilling to fight anymore, or both (i.e. slowing him down). Jujitsu is called the gentle art for this reason. Aikido and Jujitsu both have the potential to be damaging-in fact far more damaging than say Muay Thai depending on a given situation. Or they can be unbelievably gentle and still work. Or something in between. Too many styles of Aikido are not O-Sensei’s Aikido and his Iwama style is an exhaustive, encyclopedic examination of dealing with violent attacks. O-Sensei told several of his top students (including Shioda) that in a real fight Aikido is 70% strikes! Quick history lesson: Once when a bunch of Yakuza punks threatened someone in Iwama, Morihiro Saito showed up to deal with the conflict. He wore a heavy leather jacket in case of knife attacks. Nothing happened, but he still wore that jacket! Lenny might say that he wore the jacket prepared for a fight. Corky might say that he wore the jacket, but his Aikido training prepared him to find ways to stop the fight before it even began. A good Aikido dojo teaches useful bujitsu. Mine sure did! But without exploration of Aiki (which Corky is not really demonstrating), you’re not going to see a mastery of applicable self-defense into advancing years or with people of different genders and physical abilities. I respect Lenny and I have followed his work online for a few years now. But even the Gracies have carefully studied ways to diffuse violent conflict for years. They see ALL of what they do as practical defense. What Corky is doing falls almost seemlessly into what Lenny is doing, as long as you don’t call Corky’s practical defense. Just as Wing Chun has Chi Sao exercises, Aikido has better versions of these exercises, as Lenny is fully aware. The bujitsu works against violence. The exercises work against “violentness”. Aikido.
Strength is an undeniable element of budo. So is Speed. So is Accuracy So is Time(ing). So is Space (ing). So is Softness and its Opposite Hardness. So is Yielding. So is Kindness and Compassion. Aiki (do) forms the basis of all 'martial' arts. If anyone does not understand this then they are simply not ready. When a tree falls, if the human stands in its way will be crushed. Therefore the human yields to this higher energy authority even if this represents a moment of death for the tree. Thus the human by yielding harmonized with the situation. The 'Ai' has been preserved. The 'Ki' energy transformation and transfer has been preserved. The 'Do' the action movement has been preserved. Therefore the majority of the techniques deal with yielding the Harmonizing with an attack. By redirecting the attack to the center of the uke nage now forces the uke to become nage in other words to yield so that Ai and Ki and Do are preserved. Those who claim MMA etc simply they don't understand the principles of Aiki(do). Now some particulars. For an effective nikyo as was shown from one hand grip, ideally there are three ninety degrees angles formed..The 1rst at shoulder level, the 2nd at elbow level and the 3rd at wrist level. Thereafter the movement should directed towards the Hara, the Center (C.G) of the uke followed by tenkan or irimi (omote or ura) tai sabaki. The beginning of the turning does not happen from a static condition and every static condition turns to dynamic for proper Aiki. What differentiates is Intent. Intent is intrinsically also containing the element of fear. Fear (Anger steps in also) drives certain action (Do) so that the Ki (energy) can be excessive then Ai (Harmony )is not balanced. Can excessive Ki(energy ) be applied (even strong muscle) with so called effective technique in the eyes of the defender? The answer is Yes. But the Ai has not been preserved. It is simple as that. Therefore Intent does play a major role. Ideally at the initiation of the atrack forgiveness has taken place there is not excessive desire (pothos) for defense driven by fear therefore there is not pathos (sufferings) in the execution and thereafter and things take their course in a Harmonious way. Remember the tree fell but harmony was preserved. From another 55+ years practitioner.
Good points on both sides. For me, Out come depends on attack commitment, and the ability to defend on something you don't know is coming. Also applying technique to a lay person and not a skilled one that has been taught over time to yield will result in a different out come. Or you just start swinging, and see who walks away. L.S. Aikido is straight up the stuff I would want to learn up front, it seems to be the most effective. Oss to u both.
Beautiful conversation. I have a feeling that a synthesis of Mr Quackenbush's idealism and Lenny's practical cynicism and experience would produce something special, something close to what people think Aikido already is today.
Lenny, excellent video, very good, common-sense-down-to-reality concepts of how real modern aikido should evolve. I don't think that it is possible to change other delusional thinking of the other guys, by definition, delusion is an unshakable and irrational belief, hence, whatever they do they would never change (unless the use of antipsychotics). It isn't worth the effort and time to make them understand.
I really appreciate and respect that both these talented Sensei took some time to debate even though they both realize that they are on different planes of their Aikido views....both made perfect sense for what their own individual point was.
CORKY !!! Nice to see you again my friend. You probably don't remember me in spite of how much you thought of my "BE YOURSELF" routine you decided to film back in '91. We met in Larry and Don's ACE AIKIDO class and if memory serves, we took our Purple Belt test together. Then I moved to Seattle. I don't think we ever connected after that, so thought I'd mention that after I handed off my 'BE YOURSELF' tape to Nancy Guppy of ALMOST LIVE, she rejected it, but a year later of course they stole my idea and did it on their show. NO BIGGIE. Anyway it is THRILLING to see that you have stayed with the AIKIDO and have evolved to this point with it. I trained with Koichi Kashiwaya when I got up here. He was a student of O'Sensei in Japan and he was appointed as a Chief Instructor for the Ki Society USA by Tohei Sensei himself. Hope you see this and we have a chance to connect again.
I love how Lenny sly sensei actually kept relatively quiet, he is open minded. He is actually listen and observing and giving these guys a chance. Perhaps an opportunity to learn something, or at least understand how these guys lie to themselves. There’s no point of winning an argument on a personal level, but for Aikido’s sake he is stepping up and doing this for likeminded practitioners. There is a famous saying in Chinese, 先拳脚後擒拿次兵器， first fist and legs, then joint locks, after weapons. Nobody argues this, u can’t do fancy joint locks without first taking care of striking. Ignoring striking makes Aikido a fun thing to do, but by itself, it is not very effective for self defense
correct , except that aikido dont do strikes , its is that parent technique called Aikijutsu that employs combat aspects of martial ways. Aikido is an ART of peace , not of fighting or combat. Arts are for expression or presentation of principles of bodily possibilities, of beauty , order through representative medium such as paintings, sculpture or dance. Messr. Leny Sly and others will be turning away from the Osensei's legacy by using strikes together to deliver Aikido technique against grab/striking attacks is no longer Aikido but Aikijutsu.
@@leusmaximusx o sensei said 90% of aikido is atemi which is striking. I don’t think u should be making statements about other people turning on Osensei. Who said breaking someone’s arm or punching them in the face is violent? It is very peaceful compared to slicing their throat with a katana. To each their own.
@@Vengeance888 I don’t think u should be making statements about other people turning on Osensei. Aikido is the prescribed techniques of the Aikikai -as maintained by the lineage of Doshu's in the Hombu Dojo, as well as the branches by Tohei Koichi Sensei. This is the Aikido that Osensei wants to be recognized as an art, not fighting techniques. Non-resistance and emptiness is its main awareness , also it doesnt keep a heart that looks for an enemy, and see only attacking forces. The atemi era is Osensei's art before world war 2, and what was passed to Saito Sensei of Iwama , and Shioda Goza Sensei of Yoshinkan, Steven Segal, and TENSHIN branches which still employs strikes is AIKIJUTSU . Whenever they are not employing strikes their techniques still belongs to AIKIDO, Violence has no place in AIKIDO. Using SOLID punches to face and and breaking someone's joints is resistance and is NOT AIKIDO ! and that is far from the final teaching of Osensei, who had become spiritually aware that Aikido is about love and mercy and sincerity and understanding and not giving injury to another human body. 90% Atemi is the AIKIJUTSU way, and unneutered & reverted Aikido to (DAITO ryu) TAKEDA Sensei's (Osensei's master) Techniques are AIKIJUTSU , Aikijutsu and can be used to injure another human to destruction, use it to fight against deceitful intents or deadly combat. AIKIJUTSU also includes wrestling grappling , punches and kicks , chokes and throwing found in various arts, Osensei does not prohibit the mastery of these skills outside the Aikido dojo but whole heartedly compels it. It is the AIKIDO heart that controls use of all this skills. Do not confuse other Aikidoist about AIKIDO. Always preserve its teachings in your heart so that you can still limit the damage to attackers when you use AIKIJUTSU to dispose them. Train separately in AIKIJUTSU as often as possible to retain your cutting "killing" edge sharp, while also always train in AIKIDO to polish your flat side-merciful heart through muscle memory of pure peaceful techniques which should shine at all times. Explore & Modify the Aikikai curiculum to make your Aikido more sincere to various forms of attack and combinations while keeping its peaceful non violent expectations. This is the path that Osensei want you to travel , as what Leny Sly Sensei is taking. Have a joyful training OSU !
@@leusmaximusx I actually agree with you that aikido should be practice like an arts form and not for combat. However, 90% of ppl who practice aikido don’t realize that. Even Aikido is advertised as a self defense. This alienates ppl who joins and spend years of time and effort learning this art only to come to realize what u r saying. This is why there are so many weird ppl in Aikido. If what u say is true, then Aikikai Hombu dojo should state CLEARLY that aikido is not for fighting and is basically useless in combative situations on it’s website, this is not a hard thing to do. How about the dojo u r training in. Does it promote itself as self defense?
@@Vengeance888 yes, many Aikikai Sensei dont know their own art and falsely promote it as a "self-defense" for the goal of attracting students and paying for the rentals (typical mcdojo) giving the students a dangerous self confidence which i hope they would not be in a dangerous situtation ever and use the aikido techniques that they robotically remembered but did not understand the purpose which for. Aikido should not be blindly used to defend from a surprise attack because skilled fighters use deception to make their attack efective, as i would sometimes teach his students when headmaster is away . I never wanted to own a dojo because many students really are there to be able to hurt someone. as a yudansha, thus when I hear that "self-defense" reason from a sensei, I never return to practice with him, 3 dojos i encountered are like that, 2 are aikikai and one aikido-karate hybrid spaghetti shit, There are other Aikikai who are sincere and and knows the limit & meaning of the techniques highligting which ones are useful for specific situations and position of attackers and advises us not be tied up on imposing a "prefered" technique, i still practice the basics with them sometimes, to wash away my tendency to strike when provoked, rediscovering something new from a seemingly repetitve boring dance. however yearly for few months, i also practice with an iwama branch dojo emphasizing faster hard attacks similar to Leny Sensei, and other arts just to open my mind to possible forms of attacks and develop possible counters with boxing, knees & short teeps aikijutsu or judo or what is effective against a specific attack, which at home, I have another partner with whom i try those counters , so that im ready when i need it. Interestingly, unlike the Aikikai Senseis, the Saito-iwama guys are more open minded to a variety of attacks and doesnt mind trying out the original akijutsu root techniques where aikido came from. if you can find one in your place, do train in their aikido to develop aikijutsu on you own. There is no use in doing asking for that in the aikikai dojo because most are beholden (pays) to Hombu dojo for their dan upgrades follows strict Kisshomaru Ueshiba edicts as to forms, haha. (note this two groups are cordial but critical to each other like oil and water in terms of training philisophy) Just go by whatever rules they say when inside. Conditioning is also a must in order not gas out after 1 hour of hard sparring, luckily my aikido randori training keeps adrenaline and fight stress/emotions low so enabling me to think & move out of intense problematic situations while my energy is not wasted away easily or still be calm when being hit due to sloppiness to recognize a different attack used. As my sensei said long ago, upon awarding my blackbelt: blackbelts are really whitebelts and should humble me to find true learning of whatever my interest are, and let aikido light the way. The continuous sincere practice will make you aware of its wonderful kind meaning. I hope this helps, train for what you need -be it for fights or for arts. Stay safe and joyful. OSU !
The good thing about combat sports in my opinion is that if you dont know if something works or not you can just try it on a sparring session, it doesnt need to be a hard sparring session, just a light sparring session to avoid brain damage and injuries, then you try something, if it doesnt seem to work on any of your sparring partners, then chances are it doesnt work, and with this testing you skip the arguing. The reason i say this is because for example in 4:00 , hes confident he can avoid or deflect that punch, but the moment you do a light sparring and you dont know what hes going to throw, which punch , its not easy, the moment you spar for the first time in your life and punches are involved, you dont think of doing that, the moment the opponent starts throwing a punch after another and/or getting closer to you, even if its light sparring and the punches dont hurt, you wont have time to deflect and such, all you can do is try to move your head or the body to sides or take a step back or cover your face with your arms to minimize the damage, predicting the punches, kicks and such is really,really hard, and only able to slightly start to see where do they come from if you spar frequently enough,(im not saying you need to sparr on hard mode, light sparring is also extremelly good to learn how to fight in my opinion), otherwise you wont see whats happening, only thing youll notice if that youre getting constantly hit, and the natural reaction to that, in my opinion, is that you turn your back to the opponent, which is what i did when i started to learn boxing and other new people did when they came to spar for the first time, its a natural instinct that only through sparring you can learn that.
To clarify,the best solution is always for everyone involved to be happy and at peace, aikido is the way of harmony which is about resolving conflict. Hence if used properly, physical fighting will never occur in the first place. Aikido as a moral principal avoids any unnecessary violence.
You could tell that Lenny was getting really angry and protective over his Aikido. to be honest I like both styles and followed channals at the same time. to be honest I think it was Lenny that was totally missing Corkys point and was being disrespectful.
I think Lenny was getting annoyed at the “one with the universe” and “Jedi mind trick” techniques that have no resemblance to combat now, or when Ueshiba was running around Kamchatka like a “human bullet.” As the late Kevin Sparkman Sensei would say Corky is a “granola eater.”
Just put gloves on and dont tell him what attack ur going to do and attack him as if you were a typical "angry drunk unskilled bad guy" with real haymakers real grabs full strikes with pull back (not leaving arm out ) and see what happens
Here is the thing aikido is the way of harmony for Americans that livening one another for o senses and the Japanese it’s nature it is because of this I take Lenny side fight are at best 5 seconds long or less Lenny’s aikido is working with what naturally would happen in a fight it’s best not to over think and get them down as fast as you can
“However, Ueshiba Morihei Sensei himself, who was my master at one point, expressed himself in the following manner. He said, “In a real fight, Aikido is 70 percent atemi and 30 percent throwing.” Based on my own experience, I can say that this is precisely the case.”-Gozo Shioda Shihan, ‘Aikido Shugyo: Harmony in Confrontation’ (translated by Jacques Payet & Christopher Johnston), pages 17-18. There it is from the man next to The Man. Shioda once took all of the ukemi from O-Sensei during a demonstration for the Emperor. So, I tend to believe him...!
And we can add to that the teaching of sensei Michio Hikitsuchi, 10th dan, that you cannot leave an inch of vulnerability in aikido if it is to be a true budo. Hence, you must have no openings where the opponent can attack. Any aikido practice which ignores this, is not good aikido.
I did a "jiyuu waza" with a friend of mine whom I've shown some Aiki techniques. He was ready all along to see what techniques I was doing and how to avoid/deflect them. True, he's able to escape those kotegaeshi and shihonage throws but what he isn't ready was for my atemi: a big tight slap on his forehead that throws him off. When he's thrown off his "game", I add in a technique that fits the situation.
They cant agree of the definition of Aikido, for me, Quakenbush is doing Aikido while Leny is doing Aikijutsu, totally diferent things , Aikido is an Art of Peace , Aikijutsu is a Fighting Technique. Arts is not Fights. These differ on purpose. Arts are expression of principles or ideas of beauty, order or possibilites through mediums such as painting, sculpture or dances. Aikido is a dance depicting mercy and respect to human life against violent attacks & to end fights, through muscle memory. while Fighting Techniques are the most effective and efficient intentional body movement against an attack and to break attacker's body or life. 1. Pre-war "Aikido" (at that time there was no name yet but called Ueshiba Art ) taught by Osensei is very much still an AIKIJUTSU, the parent Martial Fighting Technique (not Art) of Takeda Sensei. In the sense now in practice by the present organization such as Tenshin and Iwama-Saito and Yoshinkan, this pre-war technique shouldnot be called aikido but AIKIJUTSU Fight techniques. The purpose is to use Aiki in defeating violent forces (no enemy) with or without use of preemptive & counter strikes with intention cause injury to the attacking person to disable from continuing the attack. Aikijutsu has no rules but applicable only in conflicts where there is figthing. 2. Post War Aikido as it was then called , is the refined set of techniques that become an ART, because of the MacArthur's ban on proliferation of studying Martial Fight Techniques. In the present , this is the ART that Osensei wants the world to recognize, not the aikijutsu of the pre-war era. The successor of Osensei, who are the generations of Doshus in Hombu Dojo, are the maintainer and main source of prescribed way of AIKIDO , this will also include Koichi Tohei's group and branches. This is the present AIKIDO Art of Peace. The purpose is to use the principle of Aiki to communicate peace and harmony by neutralizing attack forces (no enemy) and bring the attacker and his force to emptiness, without employing any counter strikes or premptive injurious strikes. Aikido is an art of peace , not of combat self defense , Aikido is a self defense against senseless "fighting" by prevention or neutralization of force not the attacker. Aikido has no rules outside the dojo and can be use at all times at any conflict situation including figting-(most difficult to master & must be deliberately trained for to achieve). 3. Use Aikijutsu to the extent that the Criminal Laws wil not be violated , in such a way that the means employed to defend against an attack are not excessive or not results in greater injury to the attacker from the prior intent of the attacker.
The present way Aikido is presented will get you hurt. The way Lenny is presenting Aikido is actually functional, not the way the other 2 gentle men are demonstrating. The only reason O Sensei started practicing Aikido in the manner it's currently practiced is because he wanted to continue to train even into his older age. So today, you have these so-called Aikido master throwing ppl without really touching them or not touching them at all because they see how O Sensei was throwing his uke. Then, like these 2 gentle are talking about theory. In reality, you will get punched in the face period.
If someone is trying to hurt you, through Aikido, physically, mentally and spiritually, when applied appropriately this act of violence Should be transformed into peace and harmony. That is the energetic system of Aikido. The way of harmony.
Bro, street thugs don't care about your moral philosophy. Did you actually say that you can take "an act of violence and transform it into peace and harmony"???? You are assuming a lot.
Have Corky Sensei perform a kaotsuki. Then, have someone kaotsuki him. The katate Dori is subject to degrees of "Effery". And voice over manipulation.. If we can agree that Aikido is heavily influenced by kenjutsu movements, how do you cut through your partner with insincere attacks?
This idea that "well he could just punch you" ... well, "well he can just take out a knife and stab you, or a gun and shot you." Your perspectives have merit, but the way you view the world has a large impact on how you want to train. If you think the world is filled with fist fights at every corner, because that has been your experience, then that's what you see and that's how you train. Intentions matter, people don't just materialize from the ether and grab and punch you. That has never happened. There are progressions in escalation of violence. For some reason you think people go from 3 to 10 in 1 second. It's possible because that is how you react, you clearly showed that in the video by getting frustrated and angry. The more I watch people talk about "pressure testing" the more I see people unwilling to submit to the deeper layers that martial arts has to offer. Combat is very important, evading combat should be your #1 priority.
Martial arts are for when they decide to punch and attack. Whatever "love and light" or psychology you want to try up to that point is fine, and probably useful for what it is... but when they punch, when they intend to kill, now what? That is is what martial arts are for. If you choose to not defend yourself or allow people to hit you, that's fine. But let's not pretend we are practicing a martial art then.
An honest attack. Wtf. Dude. Smash this guy and see if his technique works. This is why MMA has surpassed this. Because we constantly test in live spar. Saying the violence won't happen is complete bs
the truth is if you want to defend and or counter violence you have to be better at violence all this peacefully defend against your attacker stuff for the most part goes out the window when someone is trying to harm and or hurt you peace goes out the window I would rather be tried by 12 then to be carried by 6.!!
Waiting episode 3 to see technical application of the same technique, this evening I see in the video Venus people speak with Martian people. The point of view are very different, and repeat is all Aikido but if we speak about effective aikido i can cut my arm for Lenny Sly Sensei. Sure Sensei Quakenbush teach aikido but is the soft part, more near to meditative yoga practice. Are good both but if you come to the Sly dojo you must try to take aikido back. IMHO Luca
What i notice is in the beginning when that dude with the belly is walking next to the other dude and thinking he s safe is making him miles away from the truth. He s open for an underhook and then before takes a second breath he could be on the ground or wrestled or headbutt ect. And thats something a not trained fighter will do...just somebody who wants to get rid of that dude. One thing i didnt understand is why those people didnt go hard on him, muscled him when he did that to them...even when its slowed down. You dont have to hit him to let him know that he s selling air.
Valid point, according to the teaching of sensei Michio Hikitsuchi, 10th dan, that you cannot leave an inch of vulnerability in aikido if it is to be a true budo. Hence, you must have no openings where the opponent can attack.
When some one going full on violents dosent become on him, thats fun. Sparring and train like hell are a good way. If the aikido master can sparr with one of you student it would be grate it dosent need to be any fantsy way just sparr friendliy and it will be good. One can be the attacker and the other defender and see what happens.
Reaction manipulation.... very common in tma. If this was a fight, reacting to the feeling of someone center is too late. If wrestling it's just normal
But you are correct and should always evade trouble. And this is also what Lenny teaches... His instruction is a 100% full scale reality check and balance of traditional aikido... Much of it doesn't work and the "Peace and Harmony" crap is just that... Crap. There are no dances and waltz's that will be happening in a street or bar altercation, and there is nothing peace and harmony about a street attack, and my example below was not the only time. There is no discussion. Strike first... Strike hard, and again, never hesitate. If you are lucky enough to see a thug approaching, and not side swiped or ambushed, either way, you must instantly know the 6 vital spots of the body... Eyes, nose, throat, solo plex, groin, and knees. And again, without hesitation, strike first... Strike hard, then get yourself and/or your family to safety Thanks Lenny. Great series as usual.
You two are talking about different aspect of aikido, the older aikidoka is talking more about sticky hands against grab grapple and lenny talking more about grab punch. In the case of grab punch, parry the grab and stop punch with entry
First of all Nik, Lenny is a master of gun and knife defense and knows the street methods of Aikido as well, if not better, as anyone... You don't think he knows everything you just said? Everything you said is exactly why he teaches what he teaches with methods and techniques contrary to "Traditional Aikido"... I am a proud Aikido "San Dan" (3rd Dan), and being an older guy, (56 and still in Rambo shape). Back in the early and mid 90's, I personally instructed many military and law enforcement personnel, the street, mental, and hard physical aspects, and methods of Aikido. With extensive studies in Tang Soo Do, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, KALI (hand, stick and knife), and still practice today. I was coming out of a movie theater with my 9 year old daughter about 10 years ago after seeing the Hanna/Miley movie, when an able bodied man approached us asking for a dollar. I said "No sir I don't", but he kept approaching. I said "That's far enough". He stated "You ain't gotta be like that" and once he invaded our space, there was no talking, no negotiating, and no hesitation...I Swiped his throat with a Ju-jitsu throat strike... Once he hit the ground, I didn't say anything, I didn't do anything else, didn't wait for him to pull a weapon, and I didn't stand there and admire my work... I got myself and my daughter the hell home. I called the police when I got home and with the help of witnesses, all was well.
@ 0:23 the BlackBelt in Aikido does not Know how to change the Angle to defend against the Grab ! Corky made his point despite surrounded by Unbelievers .
Explanation: This is an clear example of Abstract vs Concrete communication and those 2 rarely understand each other completely. More like never. Also the abstract guy is never making a solid point that finishes it self and turn into a concrete fact or statement. He's a feeler and too head floading and not down to earth and grounded. At least not in this case. He mentiones something that is like 1 piece of a 10000 pieced puzzle and get stuck on that one peace, not letting go. He tries to explore something within a isolated priciple that he cant even express or explain properly either to him self or you. So of course it turns into a confused smokeschreen of fragmented information that just lack any connection to the solid ground aka effective realism, that fails to be caught or understood by the listeners. Even if you DO understand him, it's still remains at that tiny piece of a much bigger and unfinished puzzle that the abstract guy haven't finished completing himself. If you hadn't called him out and taken over, he would just go on and on with his attemt at exploring something real and failed at bringing it to realistic state or scenario + wasted everyones time even more than he allready did. He needs to learn how to "connect" the dots, and not just "collecting" the dots. I hope my attemt at this translation helps clearing some of that up. Take care.
La primera respuesta de Lenny al primer agarre del otro maestro Corky en el que lo saca totalmente de equilibrio ahi debió de haber quedado claro para todos que Lenny esta en lo correcto. Todo lo demas fue tratar de defender una posición ya no practica para el mundo moderno. Hay que establecer que el aikido es un arte moderno el cual se sigue adaptando y esta en constante movimiento adaptandose a los tiempos modernos ya que es un arte de fluidez y la adaptación es esa precisamente. Filosofía de O Sensei.
Same again.... This is a big part of the reason i quit aikido in the last couple of years I was fucking tired of hearing words like "soft" and "gentle" blending etc...... 🤬 this hippy nonsense is the one big problem with the art. Hey everybody, lets not fight! Lets all hold hands and be nice to each other!' Which yes, in an ideal world Id much prefer that option, i dont want to fight anybody! However in this day and age it's easy to feel on edge out there and worry you may be attacked by some lunatic. There are millions of dogshit humans out there who share different views and if you get in a tangle with any of these arseholes and this lovely, soft gentle aikido is all you have to fall back on......well...... the shit is going to hit the fan. Alas. Lets be nice to each other yes, but what happens when we meet someone who decides they do not want to be so nice? Ask or wait in the hope they grab your arm and allow you to "do" aikido.... sorry...I mean 'create beautiful, flowing movement together'.... umkay, good luck with that! O sensei was a fighter who fought in the war ffs and I dont imagine he took any shit from anybody. As he got older he no doubt mellowed a lot but a so called "Martial Art" should be exactly that....equal attention and respect given to both the aspects ie the 'Martial' and the 'Art' perspective. That way you learn skills that might help get you out of a scape some day and also learn how to control your body and mind but hey, perhaps I am full of shit aswell. I had even made plans to travel back to Ibaraki Shibu to uchi deshi after attending Aiki Jinja Rei Taisai and hopefully Id get then to experience Isoyama Sensei and the other direct students but the situation didnt pan out and I ended up not going back. Since then for one reason or another I just seemed to slowly fall out with the art, which is a real shame 😞
Very fine discussion : Connecting to the center and applying Aiki versus Practicality that during AIKI ,the opponent will come with Punch and other Blows ,etc,,, Sensei Corky was saying that you could overcome that attack as long as you control the centre ! Points to reflect on !
The violence DOESNT occur on him ?? What dude I’m lost ! Or is it me ?! Ok made it through. Wow can’t wait for eps 3. So far still with Lenny 😑 HIM I get haha
Not deflection but direct the Uke hands or legs to where you want and continue to a next manouver to anothrr but dont break the flow just like OSensei in his poem , study his poem and quote you will understand his Aikido. I believe some have their own Type of Aikido.
Aikido is to avoid an Attack, not accept the attack, so Corky is more right on this, you have to avoid all possible injuries and not to fight back (means not to get beaten up)...Make love and peace but dont forget to train hard too bcs from nothing comes nothing..btw did anybody notice in 10:17 how Quarky mastered centrum of gravity and push so easly the Len backwards?
6:47 "Aikido is different from fighting" ROFL!!! Your Aikido sure is. Aikido doesn't have to be, but it's because people don't train with combat in mind that it doesn't work when combat comes.
14:09 Corky has his sidekick explain to Lenny what he thinks aikido should be, which is where you keep your attacker's safety in mind, so he first uses the example of "what if I'm your brother and I'm off my meds", then Lenny addresses that, and then the same dude goes "but what if I'm your son and you need to restrain me", so it looks as if corky version of aikido only works when the attacker is someone near and dear to you and you don't need to truly hurt them, otherwise corky's aikido will not work against a true enemy in the street or in a hallway trying to do true harm To you... You may absolutely have to hurt people and not always try to simmer things down, sometimes you just gotta injure someone
@@Defender78 People conflate their religious views with understanding Aikido all the time. In fact much of what O'Sensei had to say has been really twisted away from its intent. Aikido is a tool which allows you to blend energy and your will together, such that the result is one to the Aikidoka's liking. Like any tool, good and evil are in the hands of the wielder, and not in the hands of the tool. When you attempt to force "intent" onto a tool, all you do is compromise the tool. For a tool to be of good quality, it needs to embody the fullness of its function, and leave application to its master. The reason so many people's Aikido sucks is because they compromise its training under the guise of philosophical posturing. "One can always dance with a combat form, but you can't fight with a dance form."
I did very little bit of Aikido. But I did other martial arts and had quite a few street fights. And the thing is that when you out there, and you'll play the dojo Stuff, You End up in hospital if you lucky. There's no connection or center thinking. You have to survive. Anything may happen. So if you training martial arts just to stay fit, that's fine. But don't say it's a self defense system. It's a cardio training. So my point is, you have to be realistic if you decided to train Martial Arts. Period. 👋 😎 👍.
Ok I’m watching this and commenting now and no disrespect but I’m trying so hard to understand his point. Or is it me ?! Obviously he’s making some deep point but it’s nit registering YET maybe soon before it’s over. I’m just past the middle so far...
Maybe this helps to understand (repost from above): Again (as in part 1) in this video we can see, how Mr. Quakenbush is able to overrun lovingly the routines and leaving the two students in the beginning rather puzzeled and in disarray. Also the grab-punch-combination was deflected sufficiently (one could not see if the attacker was able to control the upper arm of Mr. Quakenbush in any way) to deliver a elbow-strike to the throat. From a budo perspective all this leaves the attacker heavily exposed to potential counterattacks (which Mr. Quakenbush is totally not aiming at) and as a sincere and unbiased budo practitioner this should start your curiosity how he is able to do this? Unfortunately there seems to have been too much testosterone and denial on the side of the Mr. Sly team thus retreating to undifferentiated bs-argument and missing the chance for experiments. Maybe there is a change in part 3?
Gorky, just like 99% of Aikidoka is over analyzing it all. You simply wouldn't have time in a real fight. Lenny, well done for not being like the normal Aikidoka. When am watching this am shouting at the screen for one the guys to just go full on like a steam train to Gorky like they do in the Gracie challenges. Also, look what happens in Seagal's dan test. Most of the time nage can't get a technique on and spends most his his time running round the mat trying not to get grabbed. It's all over analysed nonsense.
If your aikido cannot work in the real world then take up tai chi or yoga, because the end result is the same. Most people are untrained anyway, including "bad guys". Aikido wont fail you but you can fail aikido. Make it work. Lenny is applying his aikido to the real world not the dojo.
How will this work when I DO NOT "telegraph" or say, "I will now eye gouge you", or "I will now back-slap your balls!" I do both "in the real world". I also grab the ear with my hand and rip downward in a violent and quick motion. How am I to do that during "sparring", as I AM NOT to injure my training partner? The element of surprise is lost during training due to telling and the anticipation of your partner knowing beforehand your move. Like playing chess and verbally announcing to your opponent one, two, or more moves on the chessboard PRIOR to doing so.
You can practice deflections all day of various random punches. There's also no law against using boxing parries and Wing Chun like jams along with Aikido deflections.
Lenny people like that you have to hurt them with direct fast movement and the debate is over. You never told him about atemi and and quick irimi and quite frankly unless your sleeping and sensei Lenny never sleep's no one is grabbing Lenny. You should have done full force iriminage no holds bar on him and after he woke up maybe he would change his tune. And Aikido is a martial art.
These two nice guys are so arrogant . They can’t admit that their aikido is not effective without striking. This is the power of Aikido, it’s traps these foolish arrogant ppl in the art, keep them harmless while brain washing them to think that they are nice people. Rogue warriors is the truth. There’s not point of kicking their ass and enlightening them, they are not ready.
You obviously never heard the comment from O'Sensei, that Aikido doesn't work without atemi, ie, stiking. Flower children adopted O'Sensei's art and personal philosophy but don't have his experience as to the why. This is why Aikido as taught in MOST dojo's is useless.
@ronin2167 And you obviously have no experience in aikido. So who cares about your opinion. Do you have a RU-vid channel teaching aikido, no. So until them keyboard warrior move onto another channel that actually gives a shit what you have to say. Lol
@@SLYSCOMBATIVECONCEPTS13 Are you talking to me or @Vengeance888 because you "hearted" my comment then replied negatively to it. LOL I have Sandan rank in Tomiki Aikido and Shodan rank in Judo.
They think they can use their style of aikido effectively without causing harm? This is the problem with aikido today, too much theory not enough practical. It is very interesting to watch these different beliefs in aikido debated because it shows why they practice. Sensei Sly is for street realistic and effective applications and the other sensei is about fitness and keeping the mind cleansed. Too different paths but one clearly not an effective martial art and his students are actually going to get hurt if put in a real life situation.
Why do you have prison razor wire surrounding the training area? And swearing on the training floor is not very good etiquette. I taught for 45 years and never uttered a cuss words. That is just wrong.
Good for you. That doesn’t mean anything. Why do you thing drill instructors swear yell and scream at their soldiers during training? Because their teaching them how to survive in combat when all he’ll break loose. I’m not teaching people to be little pussies and for them to see how well they can get their asses kicked on the street. Your way is your way, but that doesn’t mean that anyone has to follow your way. I’m being real period and people that see that appreciate that, more so then people that don’t.
Again (as in part 1) in this video we can see, how Mr. Quakenbush is able to overrun lovingly the routines and leaving the two students in the beginning rather puzzeled and in disarray. Also the grab-punch-combination was deflected sufficiently (one could not see if the attacker was able to control the upper arm of Mr. Quakenbush in any way) to deliver a elbow-strike to the throat. From a budo perspective all this leaves the attacker heavily exposed to potential counterattacks (which Mr. Quakenbush is totally not aiming at) and as a sincere and unbiased budo practitioner this should start your curiosity how he is able to do this? Unfortunately there seems to have been too much testosterone and denial on the side of the Mr. Sly team thus retreating to undifferentiated bs-argument and missing the chance for experiments. Maybe there is a change in part 3?
I say perform this excercise where Lenny is wearing an MMA/boxing glove and hits Corky with full force, speed, and intent and see if Corky can "overrun lovingly" the strike. I think we already know the outcome.
@@davek7511 I find it really interesting how many people in this threat propose this shootout "solution". Some thoughts on this: 1. Mr. Quakenbush made the proposal to practice with step by step increasing degrees of speed an power which was not answered. 2. Mr. Sly must have by now felt the body structure of Mr. Quackenbush which I would describe as a tall solid and well centered Judo-body and is quite impressive from my own experience and absolutely able to get at your center. 3. Mr. Sly has a disadvantage in height and reach, making it not so easy to land effective hits. 4. Mr. Quackenbush's approach has the quality to calm down the attacking intention (maybe thats the reason many seem to react so emotionally triggered). Let's see what happens in part 3.
@@amuthi1 Ok, go ahead and live in your delusional world. I would describe Corky as having a body type that if he endured one hard liver shot would double over on the ground and never get up.
@@amuthi1 which I would describe as a tall solid and well centered Judo-body and is quite impressive from my own experience and absolutely able to get at your center. --- Please...
Sly is about selfdefence by aikido and that's good Quakenbush is about selfchange by aikido and that's also good Before fight is better to know how do Quakenbush staff but when unfortunatly fight is invetiable is butter to apply Sly's approach. It's depending of what you need and what you actualy can do in particcular situation
Yes, the question is what scope they are in: if you are a aid worker in foster care, elder home, psyceward it miicht not be the best of interest to apply gote gaeshi right? But if you are in sly's scope on the street it may be the only solution.
Quakenbush seems to give that impression, does it not? In a real situation he would probably assess you pretty fast and your chances of prevailing against him would very much depend on your skills - and your luck. I just had a look at his YT channel and one video in particular caught me attention. "What if?". Naturally Sly would offer his own "Beat-the-crap-out-of-him" alternative. The question is. Which one would you chose? I know which I would (and of course carry stunt-gun just in case). No need to beat the crap out of anyone - unless you are sadistic by nature. Period.
Personally, and I mean do disrespect, I favour the gentler approach for obvious reasons. Why escalate? Do you feel offended if a big dog barks at you? Why? What for? It only makes things worst. It can sniff your anger (or fear). Same applies to humans behaving irrationally. The fact is that in any civilized country anyone who uses violence towards you (verbal or physical) is acting illegally AND if you overdo a defence that, could easily be constructed as an "assault" - or murder as the case may be. Take the fate of the one of Brazil's greatest Jiu-Jitsu champions of all time, Leandro Lo, recently shot dead in a São Paulo club. Lo won the World Championships eight times. It didn't help him. The hard approach shown here could easily invite a bullet (or two) from a maligned male ego. IMO the other sensei softer approach imbedded with "beneficent intention" may offer more chances of survival for both parties (...) Feel free to train to beat the c**p out of them as much as you like but ... mind the bullet you are inviting. A bullet-proof vest may not help you. Surprise shots to the head at point-blank from an offended male ego are difficult to predict or evade and are usually deadly - particularly the sniper's type. Finally, I am aware that only comments which support the "beat the crap out of them" approach are published. I understand. Feel free to delete mine. No offence taken.
the unfortunate reality is that Corky is NOT bastardizing it. He is a representation of the 80% of the community. And it causes problems for those who want a martially viable form of the art, while also maintaining some of the founder's philosophy...
Ronnie Cola I agree. His Philosophy is not the way of budo and will not help you to develop your aikido to make it effective in a real life self defense situation. I don't even view what he does as Aikido.
First point: Aikido has been bastardizing Aiki-Jiujutsu, so if you want the full spectrum do your research there. Second: Many aikido-styles deliver uncommitted attacks. Mr. Quakenbush doesn't.
He hasn't evolved passed, dojo techniques to RW techniques. Dojo is theoretical and does have application, but you have to test it's limits. You have to control ma'ai. He's ignoring it altogether and walking around inside it. You can only negate punches by being outside of range, or inside so much that it negates the effectiveness of the punch. This is why I think Aikido is a standing grappling art and should be taught that way. The days of pretty dancing are long gone. Practice safe, but practice realistically.
aikido is a fundamental platform , for self development . as more the people discuss about aikido to make it work , as more they distroy aikido . it is like kashi waza , if you show your student aikido forms and you do kashi waza to him , you will demotivated him , and one they you need to close the dojo , because nobody has fun . soft is not better the hard , lenny and corky should synthesis the positive of the experience . 1+1=1
Soft is only better when it also works when you could pull it off going hard. Or else its like a dancing form when you do it for the sake of dancing and not for the sake of defending yourself. So the question you should be asking yourself is, is Aikido and martial arts for self defence or is it a dance like ballet, jazz ect.
There no entering Aka irimi by lenny once Uke graped his hand he should twist to a kokyoho then irimi this is the first stage stopp him to pain and ready to enter uke rear not to do other thing i get him into your flow momentem not his flow.
You can’t talk Corky Thatcher out of his belief without tying up with him. But, if you beat him he would just say, “Aikido won.” You need to bring in a hobo and tell him Corky has some meth hidden in his hakama and he can have it if he whips him. Then see if Cork can be “one with the dynamic sphere.”
What? No Aikido most certainly *is* a self-defense method of fighting. That's the definition of martial arts Many get turned away by these 'New Age Healing' type Aikido (BS) dojos. In the first video, I was agreeing with the center concept. Until....
Both of you are right because in Knief Attacke You must become flexible and in fight with no weapen we Need soft and strong in the Same Time like Boxer and in Knief Attacke there is one Hand with weapen and he focus to stabbing you But with no weapen he use both Hand
