One of officers told their superiors that the had trouble before last time they take of from the previous destination plane was old and need to be out off comission but they told them to fligt anyway aint nothing to do with check list all of them was officers they know there jobs very well
@@mustardseedist no one said everyone goes to Heaven, but if you would actually read that Bible, instead of hit people over the head with it, it also says that you and I aren’t the Judge and executioner of said individuals! We pray for and over all of God’s blessed vessels, now and departed with the hope found in the Word! The Bible says you, if you make it to Heaven, will be surprised who has made it, and who is absent!
I noticed with a lot of these incidents, they have multiple times where they could prevent an accident, but due to human error and multiple mistakes they seal their fate.
When I fly commercially, which in the past was often, I often would think to myself that I hope all the people involved have done their honest due diligence, this video indicates that this crew, the whole bunch of them, didn't do that.
Let's just say in a panic you forget the flaps over and over again which is crazy but let's just say that. Why the hell on Earth are you turning into the bad engine and also applying Rudder into the bad engine. It's like he didn't show up a single day of his multi-engine course. I mean this is just so bad that I think someone that didn't know anything about flying could probably do better
@@77Avadon77 man youre not wrong…even while watching the video i thought…why in the fucking hell would you even think of turning into the bad engine…its like imgaine you hurt your ankle, youll baby the hell out of that thing and not put any weight on it. Same thing with this aircraft. None the less we weren’t there experiencing what the pilot felt at the time but Rest in Peace to all those Airman.
That’s utter nonsense. Military cemeteries are absolutely littered with the bodies of victims of mishaps and lessons not learned - otherwise history wouldn’t keep repeating itself due to the negligence of those still walking around having taken no responsibility or being held to account for their poor decisions. The worst, and most sickening waste of lives is within civil aviation. It’s reckless and abhorrent negligence on the part of those tasked with overseeing safety - there’s no accountability, so there’s no time ‘wasted’ - time is money after all. What will be written on the tombstones of those killed in Afghanistan that will ensure nothing like that ever happens again? It should be the medals of those who made the decisions, but we all know Generals don’t get punished no matter how badly they screw up, so no lessons are written on tombstones - they’re the collateral damage for irresponsibility.
A Herk has made it back on one engine across the Pacific to Hawaii. Losing control of a Herk from a single engine failure screams of a massive failure of training right up to the Wing Commander. The number of errors by this crew points to a culture of complacency. I did 12 years enlisted as a Herk engine mech and more Herk flights than I can count. Promoted to officer and eventually Squadron Commander for maintenance.
Great to know a Herc made it back to Base on one engine. I understand the Herk Flight Performance was done and found to be satisfactory with only 3 of 4 engines operating. I am wondering if the Herk that made it across the Pacific on single engine was fully loaded. I am wondering what heck of a challenge the pilots will have to contend with in terms of course corrections and balancing of aerodynamic forces.🤔
@@olusesanfesobi5219 - the Herc that made it back one one engine was an A model, fully loaded with cargo when it took off and empty when it landed. The fuel crossfeed valve arraignment for the entire fleet was changed after that incident.
This hits home, I'm prior service and flight crew. It's way too easy to become complacent and/or arrogant for some folks, especially when things are considered "routine" operations.
First, thank you for your service to our Country. 🇺🇲🙏 and lastly I'm glad you never went down. You hear all the time about training missions gone wrong. There was a chopper crash recently. 12 of your brothers were called home. One was a family member of Steve Sax. I believe he played for the Las Angeles Dodgers. Rest in Peace all of the heroes. 🙏 And my thoughts and prayers go out to their families, friends, and brothers, and Sisters in Arms.
I lived in SAV at the time and the driver I use for getting to and from airport for my commute was actually on 26 where it crashed, directly in front of her. The miracle is that’s normally a very busy 4 lane state road and no one on the road was hit at all by this huge plane. Unbelievable.
As a newly-qualified USAF Aircraft Commander, it's important to study these incidents and learn from them. This was a completely avoidable incident and a failure of the entire crew. There is plenty to learn from this.
At least one good thing you can take from this. Loss of life that could have been avoided is always horrible but it’s good to hear you and your fellow pilots are studying and learning from this incident.
I have a theory. Perhaps it wasn't a mistake. Perhaps this commander was suicidal and decided not only take his life but crew members also. My theory is based on the commander' s behavior days before leading up to this day. The rest is in peace and classified.
As a former C-130 flight engineer I find the number of mistakes almost unbelievable. Not following the checklists to completion or following proper engine-out flying procedures is inexcusable. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families and friends of those onboard. It would also have been a horrible experience for the investigators to watch the simulator reenact the flight while listening to the cockpit voice recorder.
Its very believable to me. People take short-cuts, especially when they have been in the position long enough to know what to do. This situation just so happens to be an unfortunate perfect storm where too many short-cuts finally caught up to the people involved, which made for a tragic situation. Also to note is that maybe there could also have been a cultural atmosphere in which it is not encouraged to criticize highly questionable actions and decisions. I saw that latter aspect very often as an NCO in the service. There are a lot of senior-ranking leaders who acted as if they were Christ walking on water and couldnt be held to criticism. Luckily those instances did not result in catastrophic consequences.
That was about as bad a violation of procedures as I've ever seen. My pure guess is that the AC was a 'Hot Dog' with a Type A personality? Some years back we had one of our 737's go four wheeling in the dirt because the Captain just knew it all and hit the TOGA switches while the airplane was turning onto the runway. On engine came up and one didn't! Go figure?
It's interesting after seeing a plane crash from far away, there is a moment before you see the smoke and fire, where you are just like "did that really just happen?", And then you spot the giant fireball. Kinda depressing seeing lives go just like that.
Maybe it shouldn't but it still never ceases to amaze me when a high-time pilot does something incredibly stupid and in the process just ignores years of training. Unfortunately it usually costs them and others their lives.
As a ex Infantry Soldier in the British Army, ONE thing you never FORGET, is TRAINING, and its through TOUGH TRAINING, you always revert back to your training, NO MATTER WHAT. This pilot put himself and other crew members in a situation which he should have acted on the first indicator what is a big warning. Speed just being one, a big one, which is enough to think, cancel take off, and think back through his training, never fails. May God Bless Them All. Amen
@@alvaroakatico9188 not briefing emergency actions, not following checklists are both indicators of poor practices, which are perpetuated by poor training or worse, no training.
No EP briefing, no checklists. One mistake feeding into another mistake. Turning into a dead engine often results in death; this is a big part of the training for multi-engine aircraft. No idea why the PIC chose to do so. This accident is the perfect example of the Swiss cheese model.
Not aborting the take off is one thing . BUT why shut down No.1 engine first ? , take care of the important matter first and if necessary shut down the engine.
@@bradbrinegar1419 I disagree, before the USAF report showed I knew right away the pilots fatal error was turning the plane toward the dead engine. Even with 100% flaps and three of the four engines that plane would fly. It wouldn’t be able to do a steep climb, it would obviously stall, but it would have been a much more manageable situation. A stall warning would sound and be controlled by a simple nose down and time to realize the flap situation. Totally caption and crew error no doubt about that, but without the left turn they had a great chance of making a toga. Even worse, the huge advantage of having a flight engineer and he never alerted the issue? What a pity all the way around.
@@bradbrinegar1419 How did shutting that engine down create more drag? It didn't. Shutting the engine down would feather the prop. But more likely it had already auto-feathered following the initial engine failure. One thing is for certain, somebody's feet were in the wrong spot (as were the pitch, flaps, and IAS). That plane had plenty of performance available to keep flying, safely, for the return to SAV. All it needed was a guy or two who could fly and a flight engineer who could recognize what N1 decreasing rapidly means, and speak up about it in a timely manner. That takeoff should have been aborted.
I was just a few miles away and remember that day well. I also flew out of that same field on an air force c-130 once. God bless those who lost loved ones that day.
I have read about several crashes, both prop and jets where an engine failed on takeoff yet, the pilot kept trying to turn into the bad engine, which is against every flight manual and makes no sense. I suspect this pilot was instinctively trying to continue turning in order to re-enter the landing pattern, but obviously the wrong direction to bank and turn. There is literally no more important or critical flight regime than takeoff, heavy load, and an engine out failure. Every pilot should practice that first before literally everything. I am ex Air Force and hate to see wrong reactions, poor training and familiarity. These things were 100 per cent preventable.
That bird should have never signed off by the crew chief in the first place. It was obviously not in flight worthy condition. I guess standards have changed since I left in the 90's
@@jad43701 I believe it was the final flight before retirement, of the plane, so that may have been a contributing factor in my opinion. I value your insight and believe you are correct. Accident investigation makes us all safer.
There were multiple almost countless links in the error chain that led to this crash. C-130 crews train for multiple scenarios immediately after takeoff. This crash was easily preventable. There are certain things to point out in this video starting with the emergency after rotation brief. The video states that it was never discussed, however aircraft commanders usually include that brief with the crew brief prior to stations and only update speeds during the before takeoff checklist. As for what’s in the flight manual, no flight manual is the end all word for aircraft operation and the C-130 flight manual is no exception. Looking at the profile beginning with lining up on the runway, it would have been best to do a static takeoff in stead of a rolling but that’s purely technique and not something established as procedure in the flight manual. During a rolling, the flight engineer calls out turbine inlet temperature (TIT) as power is advanced stating “700, 800, 900, calling “more power” until calculated TIT is reached, before stating “power set”:(when engines are stabilized at the planned takeoff TIT setting)” Any engine failing to stabilize or achieve predicted torque is an abort condition and the FE should have called the “Reject.” There was more than ample time for the call to have been made, and a more potentially experienced engineer seeing an engine at 94% (where bleed valves open with a gauge allowable error of 2%) should have called the reject. Why he didn’t will remain speculation and there is more. The video doesn’t accurately explain refusal speed (Vr) which is the maximum speed the aircraft can be accelerated during takeoff run, experience a malfunction (any unexpected condition), and stop within the remaining runway available. Unless there exceptional circumstances (the field under mortar attack for example) there is absolutely no reason to continue a takeoff when experiencing an abnormal condition prior to refusal speed. This would include the pilot not rejecting for an unexpected departure from center-line during the takeoff run. The video identifies their refusal speed as 139 knots which automated takeoff and landing data (TOLD) spits out any time the computed Vr is greater than 139 because that is the nose tire limit speed. As the C-130 is a short field aircraft, the 9,000 feet of runway 10 would have been plenty long to push the computed Vr over 139 while the aircraft takeoff speed would have been in the 108-114 knot range. Yet non of the flight deck crew members called the reject and instead opted to continue the takeoff. A C-130 is easily capable of taking off on three engines and there is actually a procedure for doing one. The procedures for a takeoff with a failed engine are similar and the profile includes gear retraction within three seconds of liftoff, engine shutdown and propeller feathering within six, followed by retracting flaps incrementally as speed and control ability increase while accelerating to three engine climb speed. That’s all well and good and fits a generic worst-case situation, however that profile includes the crew doing things not necessarily in their best interest. Three engine climb speed will provide the best climb rate but not necessarily the best climb angle and under certain conditions may not be achievable. The engine failure after departure also recommends accelerating to 150 knots (optimal decouple speed) in the event the propeller fails to feather. Crews have died trying to achieve that protocol. There are several comments about this video discussing the flaps. In this situation, placing the flap position selector handle into the 0% (up) position would most likely have caused the crash sooner. This is because placing the flap handle from 50% to 0% (regardless of the actual position of the flaps) would have shifted the ruder hydraulic boost packs from high (3,000 psi) to low (1,250 psi) boost reducing ruder effectiveness. This incident report cites ruder application (yaw control) reminiscent of the Greenville C-130 fin stall crash caused by the pilot relaxing/muscle failure ruder input to counter asymmetric thrust. Which leads to the mythos of turning into a dead engine. It’s all about energy state and energy management. If you have both, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with turning into a dead engine. I’ve personally flown a C-130 not so random steep overhead left turn approach with a feathered number one into C-Springs to a successful (albeit bouncy) landing with a co-pilot delusional in believing himself to be an IP and an engineer on vacation somewhere not where he needed to be. When all three are at flight idle above NTS with one dead, it’s all about trading altitude for airspeed when you need to before you have to. It is easy to second guess this pilot’s actions, and nobody can claim to know what he was thinking. This aircraft was in a low energy state, at low altitude and unfavorable bank angles can increase air minimum control speeds by anywhere from 11 to 37 knots. This unfortunate crash suggests the pilot was unaware of fundamental training elements. The investigation analysis identifies al of this. Your observations is correct that this pilot put ego ahead of safety. This was a USAF Puerto Rico ANG crew with adequate training to make them qualified but not proficient.
I concur on return to flight pattern. But left rudder was fatal forcing the side slip and and stall. I suppose no lift on the wings cased by the flap slowdown was the last coffin nail.
My husband is a retired Air Force Master Sergeant and for a time was a load master . He also is a private pilot and after many times of observing foolish mistakes by A/C Commanders and other crew members he decided he had enough flying and to switch into another military occupation. He is now 80 years old and still going strong.
He knew that over time people get sloppy. Developed little bad habits that get bigger until something catastrophic happens and suddenly it is time for a collective OH SHIT!
That's what I was thinking. These planes are built to fly with 3 engines. Hell, that's why they have the "feather" feature. However, they aren't built to fly into a bad engine with flaps extended.
Standard operating procedures must be followed regardless which flying from military aircraft too ultralights. And following a checklist is always important regardless also even if you're familiar it keeps you from overlooking things.
Yup, even the smallest aircrafts checklists and procedures should be completed before take off. You’d be surprised at the amount of people ON THE GROUND who run out of fuel on their cars. Same thing happens with aircrafts - pilots get too complacent and fatal errors catch up to them. In this case, I can’t believe they did a roll-out take off and skipped emergency briefing. Those extra 10 minutes would’ve kept them alive
I was an air crew member on C-130 in the U S Coast Guard. I flew some fly engineer seat time and we had a prop failure on #3 on takeoff on a 3000 ft dirt runway after a -25 degree night on Resolute Island near magnetic North Pole. Our command pilot on each flight briefed us on feather procedures and treat any prop fluid leaks as a run away engine, and feather and proceed. We went airborne, took a left and went to Tule Greenland, had a new prop flown up, replaced it and headed back to Elizabeth City. This is a great airplane but shitty maintainence and lack of training creates tragedy. So sad.
Mmm bad maintenance ok got it. Lets say maintenance deviated from technical data and performed terrible maintenance. That doesn't change the fact that the crew did everything wrong. I flew across the ocean on a C-130 gunship that shut down an engine at the half way point. They feathered the prop and continued home after a deployment to the sandbox. I don't have access to the cvr or fdr. So I don't know what happened.
One of my favorite planes of all time. The amount of hell that can be rained down from the heavens is so great, it even makes all the Gods nervous! My dad spoke of watching the out-of-this-world light shows put on by Puff the Magic Dragons at night while he was in Vietnam. He said that was something you'll never forget, because with the right crew and pilots, the Gunships could put a bullet in every square foot of a football field. A unique and elite club that very few are lucky enough to become a member. Ive sat for hours watching video footage of them in action, and there's no way possible to do it without smiling..very similar to the "Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt" sound from an A-10.
@Lewis Thompson However,C-130 of late has become a gravity lover as happened in Philippines lately. Obviously,US pilots are by far , actually very far better trained .
That airplane was completely flyable after losing that engine...Its incredible that the Flight Engineer didn't seem to be monitoring his station and dials, especially after maintenance on that Number 1....And the pilots doing almost everything wrong after that is just baffling. I live under the approach path for C-130s at our local ANG base. I watch too many of these damn videos and I grit my teeth sometimes, hoping they're following their checklists as they go roaring over the neighborhood.
I also live under the approach path for civilian and military jets and planes and I worry about the exact same thing. They fly in directly above our house and pretty low sometimes. If one of those big boys ever comes down on us, it will wipe us completely off the map.
Raising the flaps would have given them more airspeed with less drag, they would have been able to ascend and not put themselves so easily into an unrecoverable stall.
Turning into the bad engine and applying Rudder is one of the most ludicrous things you could possibly do on any multi-engine aircraft. You always turn/rudder into the good engine and generally no more than 10 degrees. And why on Earth were they not checking to make sure they had a positive rate climb. Just looking at their AirSpeed could have told them that they've got too much drag which would have triggered them to raise the flaps. How can they be this neglectful, it's mind-boggling
@@littledaddy30 let me rephrase it for you. It doesn’t matter if it was their fault they had a life and lost it. They served their country to, be grateful for that.
11:20 - very sad. However, the failure after failure to follow procedures that an experienced pilot should know by heart only leaves me with the feeling that this crew would've been a disaster waiting to happen during a real hot war.
The flight engineer!!? Was he playing Pokemon? 5 crew and none of them noticed that one engine was defective? Well. that's a pretty low level of professionality.
He had to be playing with his johnson, he should have been the first one to call REJECT, pilot, co-pilot and engineer were f-ing idiots, fair weather flyers at best
During this video I said out loud, "what are you doing", followed a few minutes later by "useless". This is what the Flight Channel does to me. I'm at 9 minutes now and fearing the worst...
Wow, I'm not even a pilot and when I started reading about banking into the inoperative engine, I immediately knew it was going to be a wingstall crash. Unbelievable that a trained military pilot and crew could do this.
The incompetence of this air crew is staggering. It's bad enough that the engineer or anyone else didn't notice the engine problem during the takeoff roll but then to input left rudder into the failed engine. These guys thought they were hot shots who didn't need to perform checklists.
I'm not a pilot and I am not mechanically inclined at all but even I know the engineer's job is to watch and care for the engines. This could have been aborted on the runway with no damage or deaths. Not picking on the engineer as plenty of fault to go around. Engineer had 1 job duty and that was watch the engines. Still my heart goes out to the deceased and loved ones, just needless and senseless
😢 As an immediate family member of 2 ANG members close to this base, it rips at my soul to see these crashes. I have seen the aftermath of a commercial and cargo jet, which began my fears and fascinations to understand how these happen. Thanks for helping me try to resolve my issues.
This plane crashed right in front of me. I watched come out of the airport, and was the 2nd person there. They didnt feel anything, and I have questions still. I think he was trying to get back to the airport, but this explained a lot. Upon arrival there was nothing that could be done. A medic circled one way, and I the other until a explosion on the ground, I turned back, it was obvious noone could have survived. Most of the wreckage was the size of a plate, besides the tail stayed together. It was very sad, and having someone I love dearly that is a pilot it haunted me for a long time. I still get very uncomfortable everytime I hear a C 130 go overhead. I work in aviation also, so its a constant thought that bounces arround up there.
@@ExileTheKnightsOfMaltaNow Actually I work at the airport, and was interviewed by the FBI the next day. The plane had 56,000 lbs of fuel, and was headed to Arizona to be retired, that was its final flight, in more ways than one. It was however a Hurricane Hunter, and jhad been stationed in Puerto Rico. My ex is a pilot, and I often read reports of hers. It is amazing how many accidents start from something minor, and snowballs from poor training, or mistakes.
@@claytonvanthoff8889 thanks for your reply it's a very sad story all right... The older we get the more we realize haste is overrated.. especially when you're obviously not flying a spring chicken... and between all of them they didn't have the sense to retract the flaps and avoid stalling... SMH... And then the wrong turns? They must have been in panicked chaos... To do everything wrong... or utterly hungover... or there's more to the story... the reason I asked about the aerosol injections is because there appears to be a direct correlation between toxic air quality and the rates of incidence and fatality from the supposed viral vector... And it's a particularly strong relationship when you focus in on the particularly toxic PM 2.5 Airborne micro particulates... sure some of that stuff's blowing over from Africa... and the bulk of its coming from oceanborn bunker fuel ship operations despite what was supposed to be a global moratorium in March of 2020... I'm hoping that the Flyboys are getting fed up with the Deep State agenda whether they understand what's going on or not... Citizens need to win the hearts and minds of our standing Military Officers who hold the Constitutional keys... And have the best ability to peacefully as possibly rescue us and themselves from the escalating abuse... Along the lines of the historical precedent of the peaceful and constitutional Carnation revolution of Portugal 1974... only we should be able to do it better with the benefit of hindsight and the greatest military in the world.... I think they deserve a chance to be Heroes for all of our sake in a big way... things have gotten way too Goofy... And we need to pull the emergency brake... we need to clean house and repurpose everything
RIP to the crew. Myself, with 1000s of hours on flight sims & an interest in aviation going back some 60 years when my Dad and Grandad took me to an airshow where there was a Vulcan Bomber, cannot fathom why the pilot was using rudder into the bad engine and left the flaps down. All I can imagine is that the entire crew realised what trouble they were in and ended up like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights..... Frozen in Panic.
They were not ready from the jump, this plane should of never tried to take off, i cannot believe the pilot and the ENG thought this was a good idea to takeoff... No doubt a large amount of complacency in their training, and lack of CRM. It's a damn shame the other airmen not in control became the victims of their lack of discipline and attention to detail (criminal airmanship). I also have 1000's of hours.
That plane should have been easily able to make it back to the runway with 3 engines. Surprising that a military crew would make so many mistakes. Very sad, 9 people dead when there was no real reason for them to be so.
@@P71ScrewHead Pilot didn't feather the #1 prop, and failed to pull back power on #4 engine, causing plane to yaw left, due to over-powered engines #3 and #4, and pushed acft into ground. Pilot violated first rule of emergency procedures--- FLY THE AIRPLANE!!
I have drilled at the base and flown in C-130's out and into there many times while I served in the SCANG. You never think something like this will happen because she is such a reliable bird and the aircrews are top notch. We have flown over the tops of tornadoes without so much as a bump. I pray the crew and passengers didn't suffer. Horrible mess, terrible loss.
The Puerto Rico Air National Guard and Captain Rosaro are heroes - stop using your privilege to imply that they were incompetent! So typical, so arrogant!
@@mikehertz6507 Do the math, 80% of the critical jobs in the airline industry are white exclusively (WASP specially). We need equality across the board! Affirmative action, as done successfully in our schools, needs to be implemented for our fully capable and heroic Latinx and Black brothers! End racism!
@@JuanGomez-hc4ou I take it you did not read the accident investigation board (AIB) findings before using the term "hero". It is available online and shows quite the opposite of what you stated.
I was on Grange Rd heading towards hwy 21 when it went down. The sight, sound and feeling the impact will forever be in my mind. It’s a tragedy all the way around.
Damn, I can't imagine witnessing that. I can't imagine what was going through the minds of the 9 aboard as they were in a nosedive. One can only hope it was over fast and none of them suffered!
Now, that is a memory that will never leave your head (we forget a lot of things as we age, but that will replay over and over). Seeing something like this happen live definitely causes PTSD. Blessings to you.
@@susanstaggs7558 in the days that followed I noticed how everyone in the area started coming together and being more polite and helpful. But nowadays I wonder if our country will ever find harmony amongst all the chaos.
@@soganoflarider Probably not. That's the purpose of all of the chaos. Division and hatred. Perpetrated willfully by the democrat party for that very reason.
Another tragic loss of life, which, you have to say, was completely avoidable. All involved just did not do their jobs & what's the point of the manual when, in this case, it was completely ignored ? Great production, thank you.
Indeed, they lost many opportunities to prevent this accident, but due to human error and multiple mistakes like your father not shutting down his engine or your mother not aborting, they sealed their fate and here you are.
I still remember them in my CBRN class. I Was Emergency Manager instructor for the 156 AW Mantainnace crew. They were the best. I remember them very attending to details in class and during hands-on part of their training. Very sharp. They were very dedicated in everything they did as finest Airmans they were.
Fear, perhaps. People have different reactions to a situation like that. Someone could have gone out laughing at the ridiculous manner of death, or anger knowing they will never see their loved ones again. Others could have been contemplative taking in their last moments on this earth, or the proverbial life flashing before their eyes.
The pilot made several mistakes then panicked when the flight started to deteriorate. Retracting the flaps is kinda hard to overlook, especially for a seasoned pilot.
It should never have gotten to the point where the plane was even in the air. The primary responsibility of the flight engineer, during takeoff, is to monitor engine performance. If he was doing his job he would have noticed engine #1 was not responding. His error cost him his life.
@@donmiller2908 --Completely incompetent air crew !!! So glad I got out of the USAF years ago. I sometimes rode on one of those C-130 at LRAFB, Arkansas.
@@trungson6604 I flew with the RAF & had utter confidence with our air crews otherwise they wouldn't have passed training. "Something wrong with our ships today" fits here.
@@seltaeb9691 - But this particular plane was old, I don't remember but 40+ years at least. Maybe they were constructed better then? But this accident was completely crew error.
All of this wouldn't have happened if humans weren't at the controls. It's time flight was fully automated. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Fail, Fail, discuss.
@@cbm2156, I'm not trying to belittle the importance of the crew members who lost their lives because everyone is precious in God's eyes😥 but, Puerto Rico is a US territory that still tends to fly by the seat of their pants and rules of flight change for no one.
That aircraft was declared not fit to fly by an FAA inspector at Puerto Rico before the flight to Georgia. The tragedy would be prevented by disassembling the aircraft at Muñiz AFB instead of flying it to the graveyard. The FAA report was discovered by local press days after the crash. Thanks.
Electricians and pilots typically only get one mistake and it's usually their last. There's a reason all those boring "procedures" are in place. Someone else already paid the price for a mistake. Drill, drill, drill. You default to your level of training in an emergency.
Electricians ? please......all they need to do is to turn the damn power off. I don't think pilots want to be compared to electricians.......or should be.
I don't agree with your post that someone's already paid the price. A/C manufacturers test their products thoroughly, (or at least they did when these planes were built) they put them thru all variations to see what the plane will handle with ease and what it won't. The results of that testing, will be complied in the procedure manual. If the air crew fail to follow the manual, they have only themselves to blame for the outcome. Though I am puzzled as to why these guys failed to see the indications displayed on their controls advising them of everything that was going on.
'fast flip over', that is a full indication of a below forward speed required for airflow over wings to be lifting functional, stall, downward spiral death roll.
@@twoZJs was about to say that. Only way For c-130 to roll over that fast was of flying very close to stsll speed and then pulling violently, causing the angle of attack increasy So quickly that airflow over the left wing stopped
@@anttitheinternetguy3213 That's not what happened here. A) it had a engine out so less airflow over the wing b) they were turning into the dead engine which made that wing slower even less airflow c) they had the flaps down so the wing was dirty d) a heap of rudder trying to stop the yaw made even more drag. The inner wing then stalled you don't need to pull back violently you can do gentle stalls into spin well above stall speed, gliders are a tonne of fun todo this in. It's easy to criticise a pilot but when a lot is going on alarms going off it all happens very fast a lot faster than watching it on youtube :)
@Ofinfinitejest That chain of events should have been broken before the wheels left the runway. Rolling takeoff after maintenance? Yikes. Missing problems with an engine during the takeoff? I wish it wasn't so.
I saw this happen and I'll never forget it. I happened to look up from my work right as the plane started to bank, and I remember wondering if the Air Force (which regularly operates flights in the area) was just was just practicing maneuvers or something. The pit in my stomach when I realized that wasn't the case as it fell out of my view behind the trees and I felt that boom was heart wrenching. That road that they hit is a VERY busy road, one that I traveled on almost daily at the time. It's a miracle no one on the ground got hurt.
It's usually a chain of mishaps that lead to aviation crashes. In this case, this aircraft could've been easily recovered had the crew, the flight engineer and esp the command pilot, would've followed proper procedures during an engine falure, but they did what they were not suppose to do. It's not surprising this plane crashed. This is a good example why a pilot/pilots can never afford to get careless when flying.
-Engine not fixed properly -No pre-takeoff crew brief -No “run up” prior to takeoff -No rejected takeoff when performance degraded (prior to V1) -After takeoff checklist not followed -Engine failure checklist only kinda followed And on and on. You’re absolutely right, it’s always a chain of little things that turn into one big thing if they’re not caught.
@@hbtm2951 Exactly. The official story & the investigation seem flawed. Some key info seems to be missing that could provide a more meaningful explanation. I could be wrong. 🧐
The plane is still totally airworthy with 3 engines…why not just take a breath and fly straight while you work your checklists? I’m not a pilot, I don’t know better, but just flying straight and maintaining airspeed while figuring the problem out seems more logical than maneuvering which costs speed.
Sad that this happened but that's one of the bad signs of being a pilot, I forgot what's the real name is called but basically it's being mucho, overly confident. Happens a lot, this type of behavior. The 2nd in command should've just gone through, line by line on the flight manual and ensure the pilot did everything according to sequence to include the 2nd in command duties which involves minor movement to the aircraft but mainly radio calls to tower and reading the steps, verifying the pilot make proper adjustments according to the inflight emergency procedures. The pilot just had that macho mentality but in reality he was panicking. That's why they're supposed to have this drilled in their heads from day one of training. But again, this type of behavior is with lots of aviators, manned aircraft, and I saw it every day while serving. It's a behavior for all to recognize and steer away from but at the same time they allow it resulting in mishaps and lives lost unfortunately. Very sad that this had to happen. I have no respect for those who are arrogant as a pilot. The military need to be way more stricter on the pilots. I was a e5 seargent attached to an aviation unit in Korea bout 5yrs ago and a bunch of warrant officers WO2 and above acting like damn kids in formation, shameful in my opinion but it's obviously and accepted behavior. Glad I'm out.
@@donhai1919 I think that was 'The Right Stuff'. Pilots with this, have a can do attitude, think on their feet, fly by the seat of their pants, take risks and do not calloborate well with their crew. ww2 fighter pilots needed this, but in a modern multi crew plane you need good CRM, not The Right Stuff.
As I was once told a long time ago when I first started crewing. Pilots are there to kill you and its your job to not let them accomplish it. The FE obviously never heard such advice.
They should have never took off as the experienced pilot knew something was not right as they started to slide one way on take off. They had plenty of run way to abort take off.
@@trichotillomaniac1959 no its not there was plenty of run way for these kinds of situations,its not like it was a tactical run way were you have to lift, they had time to abort.
@@trichotillomaniac1959 Not according to what the video clip read out said. They could have aborated the take off. When the aircraft first started vering to the left on the runway )-:
Thats because the tone set by the person making this video is full of their opinions and pushing an agenda. Rolling takeoffs are extremely common place. Hidesight is always 20/20
@@David-ys4ud actually, I know rolling takeoff are common, my bf is an air force pilot so he explains a lot of these things to me. The issue is, as explained by my wonderful partner, you don’t skip checklists. Ever. That’s where shit falls apart. But I also don’t think the person who does these flights is biased. I feel like they present the facts without leading you to an assumption or to believe the pilots are terrible people. There is no agenda is straight facts.
@@David-ys4ud An agenda? The facts of what occurred were very well laid out. This tragedy occurred because of gross incompetence, poor training, and poor leadership.
@@David-ys4ud rolling takeoffs on second or more flights in a day. Never the first flight. Checklists are there for a reason. This is more or less a lesson in what not to do. Not biased in any way. RIP to those onboard.
I'm starting to think that silence and inaction indicate fear and maybe pride. Embarrassment keeps them from asking for instruction and fear causes them too freeze and stop thinking. No one wants to speak up, so they just wait for the inevitable crash.
You hit that nail right on the head. Happens all the time in hierarchal situations. Keep your mouth shut even though you know that your colleague is doing something horribly wrong. Just look at all the spineless GOP politicians going along with trumps lies even though they know that they ARE lies and capable of causing human deaths, simply because they want to keep themselves established in their political jobs. This dynamic plays out in SO many realms of human endeavor where there are power structures in place, and it’s caused so much human misery and even fatalities throughout human history. With police, psychiatrists, doctors, in corporations , schools, show business, in family situations, on the battlefield, with politicians etc. etc etc. etc. I think you made one of the best points on here. By far. Good job.
This is a metaphor for our workplaces and communities now. Narcissistic leaders from Trump, fascist politicians and selfish, self serving management have been leading us to the slaughter. Are we too afraid to speak up and speak out? The lunatics are denying that a group of brain washed INSURGENTS stormed the Capitol. Are you frigging kidding me?
@@Mark-bw1wx Amen! I just now see your comment after I wrote mine. I should have read through first to see yours but I was so upset at the lack of urgency in our country right now. The judges issuing these slaps on the wrist rather than immediate imprisonment...
The USAF did a study. They interviewed all the people involved in air disasters and asked them "what caused it" I don't have the data in front of me but 9 out 10 people said I knew this was a bad idea/situation, I knew we made mistakes as we made them, I knew this would end bad etc. They called it awe of rank. When someone does something stupid the lower ranking people don't speak up.
Breaks my heart. This plane was full of problems, when it was operating here in PR, those were reported many times and were never addressed by a variety of reasons. Then came Maria Hurricane and they had to overwork that craft. Basically they became used to work with all the problems the craft had. Veering from the checklists killed them.
Best coverage of this sad incident. Another rudder input error...how many times does this have to occur before the FAA mandates proper training on this flight condition?
What flight regulations are you looking for? Coordinated turns where rudder is applied opposite of direction of turn is mandated in private pilot training. Maintaining control during engine failure is also part of the Multi-engine ACS.
The FAA does indeed mandate proper training on this flight condition, it's part of obtaining a multi-engine rating. This crew did just about everything they could to get the plane to crash and almost nothing to keep it in the air.
this is part of any standard multi engine training. people just get tunnel vision and forget to do it. I can understand this happening to some rich bastard with 200 hr and his 3 million dollar twin he bought last week. but I don't understand how it happened to this crew..
@@linanicolia1363 Not really. There was no reason to bank into the dead engine and really no reason to apply the rudder in this case. There was also no reason to do a rolling take off, not checking engine performance on an engine that was just repaired, ignoring checklists and causing a completely preventable crash.
All through the video, I wondered whether the pilots even knew what they were doing. Especially the commander and the flight engineer. That last left rudder was as if he WANTED to crash.. Great video, as always. Keep it up!
I believe this Aircraft was also at Dyess weeks before. Got a text from one of the maintainers since we had a friend in common back in PRANG...it was shocking knowing he was involved in the accident. This videos and info really really put in perspective the importance of following the tech data at all levels.
Teaching “the basics” of engine out I believe is absolutely “the most important thing in first response” to an engine failure. Rudder into the good engine, that is an absolute with regard to importance. Holding airspeed no less than engine out climb speed and something not always taught, reduce power on the good side when control is about to be lost. There are a few other important things as well, but these things keep you alive for those critical first few seconds. Of that’s just my opinion.
BANKING TO BE CENTERLINE TO RUNWAY WITHOUT POWER...HUGE MISTAKE...IF PILOT WOULD HAVE GONE FOWARD AT A LEVEL (even off centerline) it would have lifted and got enough speed up to allow a return to field...SADNESS...MAYBE HUNG OVER PLAYED A HUGE PART IN THIS SITUATION...LIVES WERE SADLY LOST OVER A SIMPLE DECISION...😔
There are also memory items that need to be properly and timely executed. I lost my critical engine in a BE58 just 200 ft after take off. I was over the water. My quick action fly the plane: airspeed blue line, bank in operational, and identity, verify, and feather. Gear up and flaps up were simultaneously executed. I was able climb and return for landing. The engine out drills need to be practiced on a regular basis not just once for the checkride.
@@alessio272 Same thing with a Navajo at full gross one night (in VFR). I hit a seagull just after rotation at a small uncontrolled field in a narrow valley. Fly it, analyze it, control it, THEN figure out where you are and where you can go. I was able to climb at single engine best rate to the wider valley ahead, where I could call the local tower for a straight in. All by the book, including the washing instructions later. (The customer had wanted to have two more people than I allowed, but that would have put us nearly four-hundred pounds over MTW, and C.G. aft of limits. The customer later said he'd never argue with a pilot again.)
@@chugwaterjack4458 usually customer/pax are the single biggest impasse in a successful flight. I had two pax with me who requested for me not to fly them. (Previous issue with them) I think I was able to create a new found understanding of the importance of a pilot’s ADM.
Great video. Once again, I sat through a privileged brief on this mishap. I know a guy who knew everyone about this plane too. It was particularly hard on him. Anyway, recall that PR was still recovering from a hurricane and the maintainers had little/no use of aircraft hangers due to major structural damage all over their base. That definitely increased workplace stress for all airmen there. As for static takeoffs...yep. Probably would have caught the problem, but the crew would have had to be paying close attention to engine performance. Knowing that engine was having problems before they chose to depart, they could have done a static run somewhere on the airfield, if the space was available or other restrictions were lifted.
Knowing the engines had problems? It sounds like they didn't know anything was wrong until they were accelerating...Seems like the issue was the maintenance techs missed the engine problem during the checks as its stated...
That is not an excuse for maintenance. I worked outside on Herks in Alaska...did everything from landing gear work to engine changes outside in the cold.
That was hard to watch. As a navigator, when we practiced loss of an engine on takeoff, I ALWAYS informed the pilot if he was beginning a turn into a "dead" engine. He woud reply and shallow or terminate the bank.
This unfortunately was pretty darn close to group sue side. A major “commander” had no ideas what he was doing that day, yet no subordinate crew challenged him as they should’ve to save their own skin, now only Hollywood can make hero's flick out of this one.
I don't know who performed the last Stan/Eval on these guys, but they weren't doing their job either. I believe that I read that at least 2 of the dead were Chief Master Sergeants. RIP.
@@karrieann3657 Well, at first, I didn't know what to think. I served in the USAF too and they train their people very well, but in this incident, it's clear that the flight crew did a lot of incorrect things. A crash usually results from something (generally minor) which leads to a spirialing chain of events and then goes out of control. If the original problem is dealt with correctly, an incident like this does not have to happen.
Damn, I flew on C-130's out of Pope AFB many times in the late 80's and seeing that actual crash footage chills my bones. We lost two birds at Ft Bragg DZ's over pilot's not following proper procedures.
Its strange they didn't notice the flaps. Airspeed is everything and reducing drag should be top priority.A reminder that the little things count....RIP
It's strange they didn't notice the engine RPM issue, airplane drifting, flaps, banking into a dead engine, complete ignorance of procedures, ignoring of checklists. It is almost amazing that those people were even qualified to fly this plane. I have literally just over 200 hours total including multi engine time and even I know you don't bank into a dead engine and have to retract the flaps to keep the plane flying...
@@redbaron6805 I found that a bit confusing. Don't you want extended flaps in that scenario in order to provide more wing area, hence more life, and also lower your stall speed?
@@captainyossarian388 No, the problem here wasn't a stall. Once they got into the air and straightened out over the runway they were fine. They could have easily gained some altitude and taken a nice lazy path back around to land at the airfield. Far more important in a situation with asymmetric thrust is increasing your airspeed. The biggest danger of asymmetric thrust is one wing getting pushed forward ahead of the other and causing uncommanded yaw. You reduce some of that asymmetric thrust by reducing power on the outboard engine, and you counter the yawing tendency by applying rudder pressure. The more air flowing over the rudder, the more force it exerts. Thus, you can more easily control the airplane's uncommanded yaw at higher airspeeds. If they had cleaned up the aircraft's configuration by retracting flaps, they would have more quickly accelerated to the 3-engine minimum controllable airspeed. Instead, they flew slow, banked into the failed engine, and applied rudder in the wrong direction.
My son is an active duty airman going into his 14th year. He doesn't work on aircraft but this still hurts on a personal level. I cant imagine what those airmen on board experienced in those final moments. Tragic! Rip
20 years on active duty and I maintained systems and flew as crew on 2 different aircraft and flew as a passenger (sometimes with my family) on at least 5 other military aircraft and I never even thought about maintenance or flight crew being incompetent. Everything about this tragic mishap is very scary and sad. No mission is worth dying in an avoidable mishap. Especially not a trip to retire an aircraft. I wish they would have aborted, or once airborne slowed down, regrouped and followed the emergency procedures.
@@MayorGoldieWilson825, Rocky "screwed up"?? He's still walking around after these other poor bastards have BBQed themselves in a smoking hole in the ground!
I was 2 traffic lights (about a half mile) away from this when it happened. my gf and I were going to Tybee Island beach, watched the plane plummet followed by smoke. It's amazing no vehicles were hit, highway 21 is usually pretty busy that time of day
By the time they realized the plane was going down they didn’t even have time to jump… It’s unfortunate that nine human beings had to go down with it. I can’t imagine how many daughters and sons, mothers and fathers, or any other family members that were affected by this horrible accident.
I'm kind of surprised how this went. I mean these pilots practically fly in their sleep, and Mil pilots don't fuss with manuals when they are in theater.. those flap should have come up first thing.. Everyone knows their job, why didn't they just do it?
@@MoonbeameSmith This wasn't in theater. No excuse. Fly the damned airplane, use the checklists BEFORE takeoff, and if there is a problem. Basic multi-engine flying, whether an old Aztec or a C-130.Dumb!
@Scott Murphy I think holding a multi-engine ATP and Instructor certificate, a CFII, and over 6,000 hours, including 1200 hours of DOCUMENTED instrument time (most at night) might qualify me. You, an obvious ground pounder, are semi-correct about when to do SOME of the checklists, but once the A/C is stable, get to the emergency checklists. Yes, you run mental checklists, memorized to the best of your ability immediately - that's part of stabilization, but no one can remember all the items, in correct order, every time, that's why you go back to the written checklist as soon as possible. The asterisked/bolded items are critical, yes, and are run mentally immediately, but must be re-checked as soon as possible. I think the two of you are defining the "rest" of the checklists as the "normal" stuff. 1. Stabilize the A/C with your MENTAL checklist. Then get out the physical checklist and start going through it WHILE you are also: 2. Re-establishing where you are and where you are going, and 3. Communicating with ATC. Complex airplanes have many modes of failure, that can cascade easily if one step is missed or skipped. In a multi-pilot operation, the PNF (Pilot Not Flying) better be on those printed checklists as soon as possible, so the PF can keep the A/C in control. Sully flew the airplane to the Hudson, but his FO was doing his job, too.
@Stephen Beck-von-Peccoz I think holding a multi-engine ATP and Instructor certificate, a CFII, and over 6,000 hours, including 1200 hours of DOCUMENTED instrument time (most at night) might qualify me. You, an obvious ground pounder, are semi-correct about when to do SOME of the checklists, but once the A/C is stable, get to the emergency checklists. Yes, you run mental checklists, memorized to the best of your ability immediately - that's part of stabilization, but no one can remember all the items, in correct order, every time, that's why you go back to the written checklist as soon as possible. The asterisked/bolded items are critical, yes, and are run mentally immediately, but must be re-checked as soon as possible. I think the two of you are defining the "rest" of the checklists as the "normal" stuff. 1. Stabilize the A/C with your MENTAL checklist. Then get out the physical checklist and start going through it WHILE you are also: 2. Re-establishing where you are and where you are going, and 3. Communicating with ATC. Complex airplanes have many modes of failure, that can cascade easily if one step is missed or skipped. In a multi-pilot operation, the PNF (Pilot Not Flying) better be on those printed checklists as soon as possible, so the PF can keep the A/C in control. Sully flew the airplane to the Hudson, but his FO was doing his job, too.
What I came to learn that in aviation accidents are usually the consequence of a chain of mistakes tied together. It's rarely a single isolated failure of equipment or a human...RIP
@@jerrysmith7166 I have deployed there to USCG Air Sta Borinquen, I concur. Bone yard party trip, old dogs got lazy and people died. Engineer should have rejected when he saw the power flux, that's his job...
A "perfect storm" of mistakes beginning with the airplane technicians. Almost any one of the errors being corrected would have saved these members of the military. God speed.
I worked civilian AF at Dobbins AFB for 35 years. I went to several off base crashes as a clean up volunteer. Most of them was human error. I only saw one on base crash by a C130. They were trying a new style tail assembly that was supposed to be better than the original. They took off for a short test flight with two installing mechanics and several contractors and AF buyers. They barely cleared the runway but never gained altitude and stalled. Went nose down into a parking lot and made a 20 foot crater. Needless to say that tail was rejected ! It was a miracle no one was there injured on the ground and very little property damage.
I reported to the crash site just after it happened. Spent 2 weeks sifting through parts and cutting up large pieces for transport. It was a catastrophic event and hard to imagine. I will never forget that day it was so disheartening.
Wowzer. I’ve always assumed that military airmen are sticklers for procedure and make the best pilots but all these guys failed miserably. A terrible tragedy that could have been avoided. Boy did the ground shake on impact. God rest their souls 😭🖤
@@prancer1803 Not because of this crash though or general incompetence; every air force has crashes due to crew mistakes, even the fabled Turkish Airforce. Being Puerto Rican is irrelevant.
I used to be an aircrewman in the US Coast Guard. I worked on {and flew on} the HU-25 Falcon, and later the HC-130H Hercules. One thing that was ALWAYS STRESSED during an emergency with a failed engine was _NEVER TURN TOWARD/INTO THE DEAD ENGINE,_ unless it was absolutely necessary. While I heard about this crash when it happened, I did not know any details of it or the cause until watching this video. Thanks for making it. R.I.P., Airmen....
It’s what happens when everything you think that can’t go wrong, does, one mistake leads to another and another and situational awareness is gone, you’re in the most dangerous position to be in while flying. Complacency is a huge threat in the cockpit.
Wow, 3 "trained" people and not one of them knew what to do. I would have thought this situation can be common and this would have been practiced in a flight simulator on a yearly basis.
