Airgun vs Rimfire

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Tim Pilbeam is a powder hound. He likes guns that use cartridges with propellant. Chris Kemp works for airgun manufacturer Air Arms. So whose rifle is most effective round the farm?
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Tim's rifle is from Browning www.browning.eu
Chris's rifle is from Air Arms www.air-arms.co.uk
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This film was first shown in Fieldsports Britain episode 384. To watch the whole show go to Fcha.nl/fieldsportsbritain384
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Why shoot rabbits?
Rabbits are a major agricultural pest, costing the British economy an estimated £100million a year*. More than half of this figure is accounted for by damage to agricultural crops, with winter wheat, barley and oats being the most vulnerable. In terms of annual yield, a loss of 1% per rabbit per hectare (2.5 acres) has been recorded but overall yields can be reduced by up to 20%. Rabbits also graze on pasture, impacting on newly sewn areas, reducing available grass for livestock and the yield of crops cut for silage.
Wild rabbits burrow under roads, railways and through archaeological sites, causing subsidence and other damage to buildings.
They also contaminate the soil with their urine and droppings, so nothing but weeds can survive. In addition, rabbits chew through the bark of trees, killing nursery stock or young saplings and preventing the natural regeneration of woodland.
A Government survey in 1995 put the UK rabbit population at 37.5 million. This number is thought to have dramatically increased. Farmers and landowners now have a statutory responsibility to manage rabbit populations on their land, to prevent them causing damage to neighbouring properties.
*(Natural England 2007)

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Опубликовано:

4 апр 2017

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Комментарии : 112

@Thekmalone82 4 года назад

12 pound for 100 .22lr rounds, and it's good for 100yrds. I have taken rabbits at 150yrds loads of times

@Gazzyb2071 7 лет назад

Nice to see a comparison between the Rimfire and FAC Airgun, well done from an FAC Airgunner.

@HILUXCHAINSAW 5 лет назад

£45 for 100 rounds of .22lr??????. What are they, gold plated!

@jamesmorel1052 5 лет назад

HILUX CHAINSAW 500 rounds*

@imnotimportant 4 года назад

@@jamesmorel1052 I swear he says "I'm about 45 quid for a hundred"

@JohnSmith-lb6ww 4 года назад

@@imnotimportant he does

@1982seamus 4 года назад

Cci subs 50 quid for 500

@joseph1505 3 года назад

Lol there 25 bucks for 500 here in the states

@perrybeale1814 7 лет назад

I am always amazed when comments are made about the use of air rifles over .22 ect. It not always about the type of rifle but about the location of the quarry as the video points out.

@zzzzz77771 7 лет назад

40-50 yard headshots are completely routine for me with a sub 12 ft lbs air rifle, not even FAC. The longest I had was a perfect head shot at 75 yards and the rabbit instantly dropped. I shoot much larger calibres regulary and I am no stranger to powder ammunition so I know their power, but when it comes to small game/ pest control, a 12 ftlbs air rifle is absolutely fine and far more versatile than a rimfire. I would make a case for an FAC rated airgun in times when you are hunting vermin like Crows for instance, or even squirrel that are high in trees. But for rats, rabbits, squirrel and woodies that are low level, up to 50 yards, a 12 ft lbs is fine. I think many people just don`t know how to shoot very well and can`t get the most out of an air rifle. I`m certainly not the best in the world or anything, but I seem to do very well with a sub 12 airgun on my Golf course permission and some of the smaller farm permissions.

@badrobot2765 6 лет назад

Literally what i was gonna put word for word hahahahaha People who want rimfire are genreally townies who think they can shoot having had a sub 12 pcp for six months but in reality they cannot hit sod all as they do not know how to shoot or understand the science

@aboutthemetal8783 5 лет назад

Never needed anything over a sub twelve Seventy three yards head shot and it was an instant accurate kill

@kieranwalker1234 4 года назад

I shoot air guns and can fully agree with what you say, my Gamo Phox when at sub 12 will easily dispatch a shot under a inch at 60-70 yards without question, crank it up to around 25-27 foot pounds it can do the same at 90-100 yards, it all comes down to accuracy and environment. I've shot airguns over 70 foot pounds and personally seen hits at over 100 yards with FAC rated airguns on live quarry, instantly dropping them 99% of the time. Cannot speak for rimefire guns but from what I've seen and experienced air guns are just as effective and a lot more cost effective than a rimefire, its all on setup and personal level of skill. ( Not to mention the depth of ones pocket )

@billiebleach7889 7 лет назад

Good for you guys....finally some fine Air Arms stuff. Every other channel seems to push FX Airguns these days....

@harryzero1566 5 лет назад

If your going to go FAC, you might as well go for rimfire and have a shotgun as well. (for those up in the air shots), also having a sub 12ft lb quality springer air rifle. I have HW 95 and HW 97, both are excellent

@Vormulac1 7 лет назад

Ah, the old debate... :)

@MJSherwood 3 месяца назад

running costs are pretty comparable if you're delving into the world of slugs for the air rifle. £15 for 200 zan slugs and £15 for 150 22lr subsonics. With no air hardware or refills required.

@fullback118 5 лет назад

I appreciate the comment about being able to aim up in the air with air rifles - something I wouldn't dare do with my 10/22 while hunting small game and grouse.

@RICHLES01 7 лет назад

You need a good .177 through the woods or barns, and a .22 lr or hmr for open land. Carry both. Best of both worlds.

@jakenconor 3 года назад

Why do you prefer .177 over the .22?

@neildelaney5199 2 года назад

I have a .25 theoben fac air rifle,, and to be honest i gives me 10 or 15 yards extra range, it may kill at longer ranges? but i'm happy with the extra few yards, and no (or few) worries with where my projectile may end it's journey

@meme4one 7 лет назад

@ 18 seconds in, did he say 45 quid for 100? Thats the price for 500. I’ve had both, didn’t really enjoy shooting the FAC airgun or any PCP for that matter, great tools but I just didn’t enjoy the experience. Happy with a sub fac springer, a .22 lr and a OU 12 bore.

@jameshealy4594 7 лет назад

Maybe he's buying nicer ammo? Prices seemed about right to me but I'm on the other side of the planet.

@jameshealy4594 7 лет назад

Further research shows that yeah, that is very pricey bordering on not possible. Maybe they explode on impact or something. ;D

@DUKEisALIVE 3 года назад

@@jameshealy4594 Actually you can pay 50€ for 50 shots if you want really good ammunition called .22 Hornet Match Hunting

@MJSherwood 3 месяца назад

@@DUKEisALIVE .22 hornet is a very different kettle of fish and a cerntrefire not rimfire like the economic 22lr

@Thekmalone82 4 года назад

iv got an R10 fac and a 22lr. I use the R10 for barns, everything else it's the 22lr. the 22lr out performs the air rifle in every way and it was made in 1975, it's taken foxes, rabbits, pheasants, dispatched a few deer humanely, it's been used to uthenise a few horses and cattle. after all that and being 45 years old it still groups better than the R10

@kris308100 3 года назад

.22lr on deer?. Interesting.

@horsestunts 2 года назад

@@kris308100 .22 to euthenise a horse and cattle!!

@kris308100 2 года назад

.22lr is not legal for deer.

@Thekmalone82 2 года назад

@@kris308100 its ilegal to hunt with but if you need to dispatch an injured one humainly it is legal

@kris308100 2 года назад

@@Thekmalone82 It's not. Here in the uk home office recommends. .32 minimum for humain dispatch of deer.

@motohunter2390 7 лет назад

Brilliant

@doomfathertm8771 2 года назад

Rim fire "60 meters maximum" lol what? I do 80 yards with a 12 ft/lbs air rifle, subsonic rimfire is like 80 ft/lbs , you could EASY shoot rabbits at 150 yards with that no problem

@doomfathertm8771 2 года назад

@@buckrussel3808 I don't know what gun / pellets you use but I can assure you my gun will produce a thumbnail sized group at 55 yards and I can reliably hit a tennis ball at 90 yards

@gerryward7 7 лет назад

Great comparison . I shoot both air rifle( springer ) and a rim fire . Both have their places in hunting . Around the farmyard the air rifle / open field and hedgerow definitely the rimmy . A bit more of this please ....

@jozefhorvat3625 5 лет назад

Absolutely true mate. Like to your comment

@Oregon-airguns 6 лет назад

I have a decent .22 lr deadly as it gets out to about 100 yards. However id choose my .30 pcp every time for anything over a hundred yards. Including coyotes/fox/bob cat/cougar. 130yard kill shot on a squirrel with 30. Cal is pretty easy. With my 22 LR maybe 4 or 5 shots to hit.

@ohsoleohmio 5 лет назад

Supreme Renegade im looking to buy an fac airrifle , the info ive found so far is far from helpful, what id like is accuracy at the range your talking about weather providing, i see some mention of airifles having over 27 ft/lb 0.22 900 fps etc but they are said to be innacurate at 100 yd .... , what psp gun do you have or can you recommend that can group a half inch at 130 to 200 yds ? is there actually air rifles with higher calibre and maybe 140 ft/lb etc that can do this ? many thanks to you and anyone that can help me find my gun

@Oregon-airguns 5 лет назад

tone the moan first you need to learn about “slugs” then everything will make sense.. pellets are ok out to 100yards on occasion... but slugs are the future of air rifles, and they NEVER disappoint. I’m shooting AN FX in the 30. However I hear hatson came out with a monster!’

@MrNewtonian 4 месяца назад

Wallnut is the same weight as Poplar, and it looks much better.

@caf3110 7 лет назад

I have a free slot on my ticket for Fac air however at the moment I can not justify the initial cost of the rifle and then the charging equipment for the amount of shooting I do. I also personally get so much more enjoyment from rimfire than air. Air has its place but I'd rather be more picky about my shots and utilise the extra knock down power.

@gunsbows6186 7 лет назад

It is really fun to shoot a PCP by a good manufacturer like Daystate or FX. But I would not waste an FAC on them. People talk about airgun accuracy, but if you have a decent barrel and the right ammo, in my experience, a rimfire will outshoot an airgun. Furthermore, even a high powered small bore PCP is not shooting 40gr pellets at 1235fps. There are bigger bores that boast impressive FPE stats, but never seen one in England.

@headfucked01 4 года назад

If we're talking .22 cal, shooting leporids out to 100m with .22LR subs is no problem (I use a 40gr Winchester @ 1060fps). Sight the rifle in at 75m and use about an inch of holdover at 100m and about the same holdunder at ~40m. Air rifles are better for feather up to 40m but rimfire is far better for rabbit and hare. If you want to shoot rabbits with air then try .25 cal or even .30.

@g.rodriguez7445 2 года назад

I've taken rabbits with a bb... I like my .177 for rabbits, though I've recently fallen in love with my .22 Ruger Max Impact Elite air rifle. Distance is the determining factor... If possible I'd still choose an air rifle over the fire arm- especially in survival scenarios.

@lensman5762 5 лет назад

An FAC air rifle is inherently much much safer than a .22 LR simply due to the fact that the pellet design , usually Diabolo, is highly inefficient and bleeds energy like a sieve. A subsonic round out of the muzzle of a bug standard .22LR at 100ft.lbs of ME still retains over 80 ft.lbs of energy and travels at over 950ft/s @ 60 yards. A 16 grs pellet out of a muzzle of a 30 ft.lbs FAC .22 air rifle only has about 17 ft.lbs of energy and speed of less than 700 ft/s @ 60 yards. There is no comparison. IMHO it is about time that the requirement of FAC for air rifles below 35 ft.lbs of ME was dropped as these in reality pose no more of a danger than a sub 12. You can just look at the ballistics of the whole matter and see where I am coming from.

@jozefhorvat3625 5 лет назад

Absolutely true. Like to your comment.

@hariboholmes4638 4 года назад

I agree I would be so happy to see the 12ft.ibs limit lifted to something more sensible. Even 20ft ibs would be a huge improvement being able to fire .22 with the flatter trajectory of .177 would be a dream. Sadly I doubt this will happen in my lifetime.

@lensman5762 4 года назад

@@hariboholmes4638 That is the whole point of it. We keep going on about ' Humane Despatch ' of vermin. To be ' humane ' requires accuracy and impact power. Unless people are not being honest, I doubt if anyone sends an RSVP to the vermin and expects them to accept it and sit still @ 20 yards so it can be humanely shot. The flatter travelling .177 round is more accurate than .22, there is no doubt about it, but it has very little stopping power @ 11 ft.lbs of ME. The .22 has more chance of killing the vermin on impact if it could be shot with enough accuracy and delivers enough power on impact. Unless the vermin is @ sub 30 yards distances, that is a hit and miss affair. So the logical step is to increase the ME within reason. I agree that about 25 ft.lbs for a 16 grs .22 pellet is about right given the nature of the vermin that can legally be shot with an air rifle in the UK and the terrain on which it can be shot. Anyone wanting a 50ft.lbs air gun can then apply for FAC.

@ted3681 2 года назад

Browning T Bolt, hell yeah!

@avian60 4 года назад

people i know get rabbit on regular basis with sub 12ft lb air rifle,s at 60 yds

@dbnook135 4 года назад

Do you have to re zero the scope every time you adjust the power on the fac air rifle?

@fieldsportstv 4 года назад

Yes

@jakenconor 3 года назад

@@fieldsportstv that's a bit annoying. It seems the Air rifle is louder than subsonic 22lr ammo , am I right?

@fieldsportstv 3 года назад

@@jakenconor My .22LR makes more noise than my PCP - but both make enough noise to shift a field of rabbits. / Charlie

@g.rodriguez7445 2 года назад

Should be Break barrel vs .22LR -- overall distance would be determining factor

@randytrashcan 4 года назад

Not so much the case for a PCP, but a springer is ideal for the "prepper" variety. They're quiet, reliable, and extremely affordable.

@Electronicpoacher1 7 лет назад

at 4 mins 35 he said rim fire 50 meters max maybe 60, is this guy for real, I shoot a .22 and have my sights set at 60 meters with mill dot ranges to 70 , 80, and even 90 meters and comfortably shoot rabbits at 70 meters and more, obviously this ex air gunner is bias

@Electronicpoacher1 7 лет назад

i dont doubt it mate I regularly shoot rabbits at 125 yrs, but not with an air rifle lol

@gunsbows6186 7 лет назад

50-60yards maybe for 22 Shorts or CB Caps. You don't see the ammo much anymore, must have been years since I last saw a box. Grew up with the stuff, my father would not let me shoot anything else until I was around 16. Ammo shoots out of a bolt action chambered for 22LR, mainly for plinking. Standard or High Velocity 22LR, different beast, 100yards easy with it. Maybe fellow in the video got confused over the ammo, some folks just lump all of it under the label "22", but for me there are distinct differences. 22LR can probably reach out to 150yards for the higher velocity stuff, but really at these ranges, you will want a 22mag or small bore Centerfire.

@Electronicpoacher1 7 лет назад

a .22 for "plinking" you silly man, a .22 will kill a man at a mile and you say its for "plinking" no wonder they want to take guns from people, but people like you I would agree,,,get it into your stupid head regardless what ya dad or anyone else said ,,,,, a .22 is a deadly weapon

@gunsbows6186 7 лет назад

LOL, I never said anywhere a .22LR was not deadly. I was referring to CB Caps that I used as a lad in context of that 50yard distance. The round had a muzzle velocity of about 350fps and muzzle energy of 6fpe, considerably below a legal limit air rifle. It has no practical uses outside of plinking. Do not confuse the various sub-categories of 22Rimfire. There are at least 6 subdivisions - 22CB Caps, 22Shorts, 22Long, 22LR, 22WMR, 22Win Rimfire. Some 22LR bolt action rifles can chamber shorts, longs and caps as well as the 22LR. 4 different rounds, one gun.

@uknighthuntingvision93 6 лет назад

I get kill head shots with my AA 510 Ultimate Sporter Sub 12ft lbs .22 out to 1916.7 Yards all day long....................... Then the alarm clock wakes me up from that wonderful hunting dream!

@suddenkancho4968 7 лет назад

How was the .22 rimfire "silenced"?

@iankluck520 6 лет назад

Sudden Kancho assuming he is using 22 shorts or subsonic ammo.

@jameshealy4594 7 лет назад

Can't get suppressors in Aus, so the airgun gets a huge leap ahead in noise produced. Still an interesting debate, although for me the ability to spend an afternoon shooting 500+ pellets without going broke is the real decision maker.

@TheLegend-xk9tu 7 лет назад

its not illegal if no one finds out

@jameshealy4594 7 лет назад

Not worth it to me, for the sake of cutting off a few decibels I'd lose my firearms license in an instant and almost certainly do jail time. I see your point but where would I even use it? What would make it worth that risk? etc.

@kris308100 3 года назад

An air rifle without a moderator is very loud.

@jameshealy4594 3 года назад

@@kris308100 yes, though typically still much quieter than a firearm without one

@Howardtripper 5 лет назад

and you can get a .22lr cheaper than the air rifel

@BoiledOctopus 6 лет назад

Did he throw him over a barbed wire fence??!!

@darrenscully6959 6 лет назад

Boiled Octopus i hadto watch it a time or 2, what a stupid thing to do,lol,and his palms spinning around the wire :/

@BoiledOctopus 6 лет назад

Darren Scully Utterly bonkers!

@drgdfhfdhfd498 5 лет назад

Only good thing with pcp is that u can set the power down so it does not damamge the metal roof. Other than that 22lr wins in every aspect.

@bunkaaa8726 2 года назад

ammunition price? Noise? both big factors..

@brotherhood_ofstreetracers4268 4 года назад

This isnt a good comparison .there are airguns that put out 70fpe in . 22 more in larger calipers .

@bigslatt708 4 года назад

Some big bore airguns push more then few hundred foot pounds

@Edgunsuk 3 года назад

Tim says 60 yards for a .22 lr ??? im getting sub MOA 30 mm to the layman groups with my .22 at 100m pretty sure thats better than most fac air rifles are doing at 60 yards the advantage is clear , biggest bonus for the .22 lr is is ofc selling it after you want to change , no one is buying second hand FAC air rifles

@kevinparker461 2 года назад

And see how cheap a Theoben rapid is on FAC!. A 12 ft lb Rapid is hard to find. I bet there are a lot of people who had a Rapid converted to FAC that could kick themselves!

@Edgunsuk 2 года назад

@@kevinparker461 i still want an fac air rifle though , 22lr is not noise friendly in the UK even with sub sonic ammo , maybe i should have mentioned im a gunsmith.

@AussieDazza 7 лет назад

I wonder if Tim and I are related? My last name is Pilbeam.

@smitbar11 3 года назад

Used to shoot Sparrows and Starlings.................. massive fuel for the anti-hunt

@Edgunsuk 5 лет назад

£45 for 100 .22 lr rounds ??? pull the other one i buy CCI standard 1050 FPS at about £13 per 100 and i can group 1/2 at 100 yards under an inch if im not trying , ok i spent a lot on my lithgow arms crossover set up but the rifle itself was £600 thats half the price of any decent FX air arms or daystate and SOOOOO much less to go wrong.if i had not bought the best scope i coul;d afford £600 ish i woul;d have been done under £1000 WITH night vision, you cant buy the guns i mentioned for that let alone a scope silencer bipod AND charging equipment , this video is obviously sponsored lol

@jackstraughan2652 4 года назад

You’re not going to beat a 22lr on rabbits. Cheap and effective. A sub 12 will do farm yard birds no problem. All about picking the right tool for the job, both excel in different situations.

@jackstraughan2652 2 года назад

@@buckrussel3808 dead? It is tried and tested since 1884. It has accounted for probably almost every animal species life on the planet. It’s used to humanely slaughter the pigs that make your bacon. When out hunting in the cold, it won’t blow a seal and dump your air pressure. It won’t split cases or let a gust of wind throw it off like the hmr, and it can be used subsonic or in high velocity rounds. Pay some respect to the most popular caliber on the planet, it most certainly is not “dead”.

@jackstraughan2652 2 года назад

@@buckrussel3808 your argument isn’t valid though. You claim 22lr is “dead”. Every caliber has its uses, and the 22lr has more perks than a 17. If I want to shoot fox, I pick up my .243. If I want to shoot deer, I pick up my .270. 22lr can also use bird shot for safe shots around barns and into trees. I’d rather a 22 hornet or 22WMR over the 17hmr, it is god awful in the wind - I sold mine within 6 months for that reason.

@Tilbily 7 лет назад

It's no debate, buy at least one of each. An air rifle will allow safe practice even in the basement. Rimfire....Well...I don't know anyone who doesn't like the smell of rimfire gun powder.

@sudo_nym 7 лет назад

is the answer that wins the internet!

@ralphy9215 3 года назад

Interesting video thanks. Air rifles ok to 40 metres (FAC) rim fire 22 ok to 80 metres or a little further ......

@sailormanoyster1849 2 года назад

A very good fevkdw Roger ta

@pepperperez281 5 лет назад

What about shotguns vs airguns

@Oregon-airguns 5 лет назад

Pepper Perez that’s stupid... that’s like saying bike vs scooter... two completely different things... only commonality is wheels

@Howardtripper 5 лет назад

so you cant sort a fox out with an air rifel

@grizzlygamer8891 5 лет назад

I think even the 0.22 rim fire is maybe not enough for a fox. He mentioned people coming with center fires to shoot the foxes. I'm sure you COULD kill a fox with a smaller caliber but it'd hardly be humane.

@kevinparker461 2 года назад

@@grizzlygamer8891 And there is legislation that you would fall foul of, Causing suffering is an animal welfare issue & could get you into a lot of bother if plod were to invesigate. I have seen people putting video's on face book of them shooting fox cubs with a 12 ft lb air rifle!! .. all i can say is another moron with an air rifle!

@stevebzz839 10 дней назад

@@grizzlygamer8891 .minimum .17hmr or .22 wmr for foxes in UK, .22 LR isn't considered to be powerful enough.. however, I would be surprised to see any fox run after a head shot under 50m from a 22....

@Micidiale870 4 года назад

for rabbits??? airgun by far!

@ThePioneerChannel 5 лет назад

Hopefully you eat what you kill .. I hate seeing meat go to waste.

@shermdog6969 4 года назад

Didn't you hear him at the end?

@simonsiron887 2 года назад

If I get an FAC and a 22 LR, can I shoot it in my backyard to dispatch rats and rabbits?

@pinocolada4254 2 года назад

Don't know uk law, don't know your backyard, but i wont shoot 22lr in a yard with neighbours, bushes, hedges and anything that blocks view. An airrifle van be done, when backstop is ok, no one would notice it from some distance. Also, i guess it's legal to shoot your airrifle in the backyard. When i was younger i shot my .35 airgun in the backyard, they are legal here, these days, i would never do that again.