Akai Force + Tascam Model 12....is this a BAD or GREAT idea?? (3.1.1 Firmware) 

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Awesome, I was so let down, but this makes it an appealing option again. Thanks!

Thanks for this tip pal. Do you know if it's possible to get post-volume-fader also, so I can record fade-ins/outs and mute track on the Tascam mixer when recording?

Great ideas!

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lol...well, go get one then! I was just trying to give an honest and clear review. If this fits your needs, then you'll be quite happy with it.

I've just got an 1820 for this very reason. My scarlett 18i8 works OK but with noticeable pops and crackles along the way

Nice! And thanks!

@@jimmywheelo try turning off the audio record warp on the Force

@@supermonkeycollider thanks for the tip

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yo yo yo

Yes...that was my mistake. Should've dug into the manual first to see if there was an option. 🤦‍♂️

Class compliant just means you can pretty much use ANY interface (cause no one wants to built a proprietary device).

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy this is wildly incorrect. Sure there are many class compliant interfaces but there are also many non class compliant ones. Some class compliant ones don't work with the force either like many motu interfaces. It also must be compliant with linux framework which many motus are not and thus even though they are class compliant they don't work with the force.

Yes...just a little suprised the headphone isn't separate. It's kind of separate anyways, with its own byline knob and cue mix knob

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy but its still part of what is essentially the forces built in audio interface and no different to any other in or out on it

Yeah...unless your multitrack recording, it's not really necessary

I don't think you can connect that to both. And with the Force, it either uses the audio interface, or it doesn't. And the Force can be a audio interfaces to the computer...but ONLY if you disable the standalone mode. So then are ONLY using the force for inputs. Nothing else works. It's like a zombie in that mode.

It depends on whether you want a "mixer." Those others will work just fine as a interface. The force has a mixer toy can control via an external midi device. Or internally.

There are def some interesting routing possibilities. Per that one feature, I was just hoping for the simplicity of the EQ for recording. The EQ isn't *that* isn't important. Can always just use in the force or on the output side.

I'm still undecided if I prefer to forgo the USB and run the 4 outputs into the M12 and the submix outputs to the Forces inputs. My bugbear is if you record to the internal MTR you have to record channels 11/12 and mute the other tracks

No midi mapping on the force, but yes in Ableton

That's actually adjustable per Tascam manual. I need to provide an update. But you can't record to the Tascsm if you use it as an interface

I don't think that works. But haven't really explored it yet

Good question. Prob same thing happens. I mean...it makes sense. But it sucks, cause that (native) headphone setup on the force is amazing.

You can select...via a button whether to send tracks to the master or sub mix (or not...maybe just an aux?). This mixer is better for a "hybrid" approach of you don't need all the audio routed into the force and back out.

Ok...so yes, it breaks the headphone output. But the EQ thing is a mistake. You can choose to flip it.

I like the Yamaha HS series

​@@PinkBuddhaAcademyI had saved your video for the day I scrounged up enough components so bare with me. Being a newb I get confused easily... and had a question .. Is this still the case with the force being class compliant or did they patch this obviously broken feature? I'm struggling to get my head around all the routing with the things have... (I only buy gear that's I find extremely good deals). Everytime I think I've got it figured out there's something I'm missing like 1/4 midi input adaptors ✅. I'm not so concerned about the equipment convenience (sliders, EQ mixing board etc) I just want it all to function. My collection now consists of: KRK monitors, Keystep 37, Deepmind 12d, two channel audio interface for guitar, laptop (64GB of ram), iPad and of course "The Force". I spent a great deal of time in Jedi training learning how to use the force by itself, having never worked with any DAW before (that was, flying a spaceship, kind of fun!) but not enough time learning the routing, technician stuff. Everything works indepently ...midi keyboard 37 works with DP12d ✅ kb37 + Force ✅ kb37 + laptop ✅ Monitors work great with everything ✅ Interface works with laptop ✅ now I'm just trying to make it all sync/ work together and then build from there... If you can share any of your insight or point to what I need to make it all work as a family.. I was hoping it would all work around the Force but that means I need to route everything to the force ✅ ... everything has USB and midi ports ..once and if everything is connected (USB ports and the midi in ports) I'll exhausted all it's inputs... So what I need to do is hook everything up to audio interface with plenty of ports and then hook that up to the Force? but then the "Force" loses all it hardware function ability... that's a really scary thought, especially since the force was the first component I got lol

Yes...apparently it's a setting you can pick in the Tascam

oh - interesting! Good to know. I suppose that isn't something you can change easily, or per track? Like more of a global setting?

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy it's per-track although there is a shortcut to set it on all tracks.

That is great to know. Unfortunately, when setting a track to post comp or post eq, you need to put the track in live mode to get any signal into the Force. You can no longer get an independent input and output on the same channel set to PC mode.

Yes....you just have to do it with the Tascam

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy there a literal EQ IN/BYPASS button on the Tascam 12

Yes for the midi....not sure about the cv. Haven't tested.

Hmmm....I haven't tested the limits of audio tracks. You may be right that this is the limit.

It would....but why would you want to do that exactly? Vs record into the force first?

If it's USB powered, then prob

No...the Tascam has several "modes" it can switch between. It can be an interface, a midi controller, or a recorder. But those are different states.

Tascam can only be the master when it comes to sync. It sends MTC, but I'm not sure if the Force or MPC can slave to it or not.

Yeah...totally agree that I wish more had lots of easy stereo inputs!

Oh...and yeah, you could direct the bus to go to a specific output on any interface. The more outputs you have, the more choices!

well - you have to understand that it's not going to work like a looper pedal. Where you can record multiple layers on the same loop. You can, however, record different clips to create layers. It's a little tricky to record loops live, from something that's already playing. Depends upon your routing and a lot of things.

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That's a great option - i.e. just tuck it away. Very different strategy than using a mixer like this.

i have the xr18 as well. i’m trying to figure out how to configure send and returns but it’s breaking my brain with all the different options. any help?

Yes...i knew that. But I was wrong about using EQ when coming FROM the force.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this....you could always use the Tascam like a mixer, and plug two Forces into that. But you could only have one using it like an interface.

It does have some pretty great swagger to it, as a device, doesn't it? Just looks "sexy" somehow.

Yeah...I get that. I'm realizing I rarely need a full secondary interface. I wish it even just had an extra stereo input, like the mini headphone jack even.

Also your "community" here is so great. Maybe any of those sound magicians here knows how this soundcloud mastering thing works and have an idea for an akai force plug-in chain that will fit my ignorant demands. I am just saying heheh thank you in advance literally even for reading my huge comments.

I do private lessons for the force (and producing) in general. Email me if you're interested - Hello@jonathanhaidle.com

Those are good questions, but much more complex than can be answered in a comment, is why I offer.

It's the other way around - you can use the audio interface that you have connected to your computer with Force. For example, I use my AudioFuse Studio with the Force to route all synths and the turntable, make music on the Force and export it as an Ableton Live session. Then I open it in Live, connect AudioFuse to my laptop and take it from there - while maintaining all of the same inputs and routing between Force and Abletone Live (yes, I can't use both at the same time, not my use case though). Hope that it makes sense!

well - it will function as a USB interface with your computer... if you hook it up directly to that. But yeah, it doesn't just enable the force to directly spit out all those tracks directly into your computer. But @lukasz here has a good point. If you use Ableton, you can just record internally and then export as a session. And you'll get everything broken out into tracks.

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy My MacBook doesn’t recognize it when I connect it via USB. Does yours ? It does not show up as an option in Preferences >Sound input which is a bit dissapointing. My Helix and RC 505 both work that way. It would be great if I could record separate tracks into Logic. Or even if I could get stereo outs into my computer. Right now for my livestreams I’m going Force>Digi 003/Protools(iMac)>RC 505 usb out>MacBook/Logic>OBS. It would be cool if I could go directly from Force through USB to MacBook.

Agreed

🤣🤣 I'm going to do another video on the Tascam in general and will mention it then

Probably! Did it have a USB interface?Could always just try it.

You can hook up a bunch of external synths. But yeah...no effects on midi tracks. You have to route the audio back to use effects. With the new update, you can have up to 32 tracks in and out. I don't know why you think it only can do two external synths. You mean the two inputs built in?

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yes.

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I have the same interface and get the same error code. Have you found a mixer or audio interface to use with the Mpc yet?

@@nsp932 Yes mate. I bought a Behringer UMC1820 which works for multitracking to the force and Ive just got a Behringer XR18 which is an amazing digital mixer. I havent tried that on the force but I am confident itll work once its set to 44.1khz.

Yes yes yes...several people have pointed that out now! I'll prob do a separate Tascam review and mention that. But thanks for commenting as such.

Just the 12 though. The 16/24 are both pre-EQ because they are analog.

@@Arperture yes the 16/24 is a complete different design.

Apparently you CAN do it. It's a setting in the Tascam.

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy maybe you could try it seeing as you own these and make videos about them, or you could run around at night biting people. the choice is yours and yours alone.

Yeah...it's a bummer to lose the headphone output

I get it - but I'm grieving the loss of that headphone jack in the front.

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Luckily my Audio Interface got a headphone jacked so I dont need the Force one to much but its only a 2 Inputs one so I im not using it anyway on the force .

Nah, they just need to write in aggregate support for multiple interfaces. Could come in the future!

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy use the headphones on the mixer? I mean it basically got moved to there right???

Should mention I won’t experience the “sour” points with this setup. All of my inputs and outputs on the Force will keep working.

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Really?? They are that different...? That suprises me

Yep. Model 16 and 24 are analog mixers, 12 is digital.

Yup...agree with you 100%

It's great for that!

If it's USB powered, yes

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy right on.. interesting. I'm using a 1010 blue box but I was thinking like a small mixer would be nice just to increase i/o with the force and so I can take sound from the b box from the akai into the akai without creating a feedback loop etc... but considering this it kind of makes me rethink all of that. I already have a audient id14 interface I could adat expand and is usb powered etc... or I could just buy something else... But I'm curious exactly what do I lose function of that I'll need/ want the interface to be Able to do.. is it just the audio i/o or is it the midi/cv also or? Lots of work you put in to help out. Thanks for your time.

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy ONE other thing do you know how to make it so you can hear midi samples "audition"them? It sucks having to load it up then try over and over and hitting audition did nothing

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I don't get it man...I started getting to know the force and really learning how to use it and everytime I get a handle on another thing it's like the damn midi instrument connected to it suddenly dosen't work AT ALL and everything is the same... it's constant. Something I was using with no problem yesterday, just WILL NOT work the next day. Same menu choices same everything no fuckin dice. The more I spend on gear the more it tends to just not work. I don't get it, but I'm about done with it.

@@softsmoken ah man...that sucks. Wish I knew something that could help

I checked with TASCAM. They say, "You can indeed record the EQ and compressor to the DAW when recording in USB audio interface mode. This can be changed as described on page 54 on each individual channel's MTR/USB Send Point. This can be done by pressing the menu button and going to mixer and selecting MTR/USB send point and the individual channel can be selected to PRE COMP, POST COMP, POST EQ."

Yes...my mistake. Should've checked first

I was wrong about this...you can adjust it via a setting in the Tascam to be pre, or post, the EQ and compression.

on the l series and the bigger tascams the reason is simple, they are mixers first, recorders second, the FX are there for the mixer to use in a live situation, the idea being you then have the clean uneffected audio recorded to import to your computer and finesse there where its generally easier/better.

The effects definitely get recorded when the Model 12 is configured correctly.

Oh...that's more of a thing for the force. Not the Tascam

Oh yeah....the 24 looks to be a beast. And I wondered that, after exploring this, whether 12 is enough. Since you have split that between inputs and outputs. Having 16 or 24 feels way more effective.

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yeah many videos just show the Model 12 so its easy to think there's some legit reason for that, so good news if you thought that's also and want the bigger ones! I use the Sub output to drive my desktop monitors and to the side and behind I have the Force, the Model 24 and synths and drum machines and separate monitors, works great!

Oh also and can stream Bluetooth to it, so your computer, iPad and phone can use it at the same time the Force owns the USB connection (and you can sample that into the Force also). A UGreen USB switch I have if I want to divert all the usb to the computer with a button press.

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I have a 24 and had a 12 for a few months. The 12 has some extras like the MIDI ports and Mackie HUI control, but the 24 is unbeatable when it comes to IO. I'm buying a Force a few weeks from now and can't wait to try it out.

My thoughts too. But damn....I really wanted to fall in love with it. It's got swagg as a piece of gear. The physicality of it.

Thanks for sharing your experience

Absolutely agree to this statement, unfortunately lots of issues with the MPC and model 12. Nothing but issues making it completely a useless feature. Examples of these issues I have experienced is cracking and audio anomalies and frequent AI crashing that force to constantly toggle from the internal AI and the Tascam model 12. I have changed the USB cable, replaced my monitors, rolled back the MPC version, reset all settings with no fix. MPC blames Tascam and Tascam blames MPC. So frustrating.

@@K24U76 Did you upgrade to the newest Akai firmware version? I've read reports that it breaks things that used to work before, with for example the UMC 1820.

Myself, I'm not upgrading my Force until things have settled down. I'm in no hurry, I can wait for as long as it takes.

@@K24U76 See my comment above for how I am going to use the ANALOG I/O of Model 12 / Force to get audio in and out of Force.

Nice

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Hmmm...I guess I didn't dig into the manual. But I did test it several times. It works on the output from the force. But not going in. I'm 98% sure, I guess

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Hey Sam, this sounds like a really good idea. Any chance I can chat a bit with you on this for some insight? No way to DM on RU-vid yeah? 🤔

Tascam has a model 16, and 24. If you like the idea of this, but 12 tracks isn't enough, those offer more tracks

haha - sorry for it to be confusing. I think if you want your main DAW to be on a computer (like Ableton?), then I wouldn't really recommend using the Force. There are better MIDI controllers out there for controlling Ableton. What I'm demonstrating here is using the Tascam as an audio interface for the Force. Well - like an audio interface that also is a mixer (with sliders/EQ and all of that). The only reason you'd use something like with the Force is to get more inputs, and have some physical hardware to control EQ, volume, etc. Does that help?

Just looked up the MIDI info on the Model 12 and it has a MIDI implementation chart. I guess the MIDI monitor on the Force would come in handy here if you did want to control Force MIDI from the Model 12? Also, it seems you *can* allocate comp/EQ post-fader in the settings, but not FX (unless you send the channel out then back in to a spare track, apparently). I've been interested in the Force + Model 12 for a while but prices have rocketed and bank account plummeted :( Hope this helps in the ongoing quest :)

Hmm...that's an interesting idea. But I think that's an "all or nothing" for the Tascam. You're in midi controller mode, or you're not. So couldn't be different per track.

Well...that wasn't an akai thing. That was me not understanding you could change that in the Tascam. BUT...you are not wrong about the faltered landing (in general). Haha

I think that's a model 12 issue, not akai. Because using the Tascam as an interface bypasses the knobs. Compression too. Has to do with internal routing of the Tascam. But yeah, those are my thoughts exactly. I don't really need a mixer if its just funding as a straight input

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy correct!!

You can configure the Tascam in the settings where you Tapp in.

Hmmm...never heard of that before.

I think so. But haven't tested that yet.

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy i'd really lioke to know because looking at model 16 and model 24... they said unklike the model 12 these don't record eq..... so by inference the model 12 does.....

Yes it does, if using as an interface

@@randallminick6710 what does the 'it' referr too ... it does the eq or it des not do the eq?

@@cresshead sorry; the only time that EQ works is when using the device as a mixer, directly in. If you use the model 12 as a interface, it only records post gain knob.

Lol...I mean, you have to anyways at some point

Lol