See this is the moment that Alice shows that she's not a bad person - she comes off as really standoffish and defensive and cold for the majority of the game, until this moment, when she reacts with abject horror at the abuse of the children. Her emotion here is really powerful and her voice actress nailed it
This, along with the fact that I am way too emotionally attached to this game, this scene brings me to tears every time. It makes me want to stand by her side against Bumby.
She never was a bad person. She is a vulnerable individual who has been taken advantage of by those who were supposed to help her. There’s no blaming Alice for being oblivious to the abuse around her when she herself was a victim to it as well; the difference of course being that she is a young adult who has spent the past decade of her life in a mental hospital. I’d argue that Alice in some ways still a child as she’s been robbed of a normal childhood and has been thrown into the world to fend for herself with little to no guidance. Perhaps a lot of the suffering she endures throughout the game is the manifestation of her subconscious guilt over what she has witnessed and done nothing about. As Bumby’s influence on Alice manifests itself in wonderland as the “ruin”; the characters she meets across her journey are a manifestation of her conscience and all the things that she struggles to express.
But it still didn't satisfied me about his death, it's too simple and quick, I really want him to fell on the railway before the train comes and crush his guts and blood spill all over...
''The train is coming with its shiny cars. With comfy seats and wheels of stars. So hush my little ones have no fear. The man in the moon is the engineer.''
The sickle symbol in the engine of the train represents Ceres, the Roman goddess and ruler of the harvest which alludes to Bumby's role of harvesting children for child prostitution.
Yes, there will always be “appetites” that are waiting to be gratified. While I don’t really research or want to know what’s out there I’ve heard stories of people here in north phoenix who pay to see someone get “snuffed.” (Pay to see someone get killed)
I always knew Alice in Wonderland was a fucked up story. It is NOT some happy and innocent children's story. Alice in Wonderland is a damn horror story. A little girl who chases a white rabbit only to fall into a rabbit hole with an entirely different world in it. And not only that. But Wonderland is a twisted mind fuck. Card Guards, a cat that can just disappear and reappear out of thin air, a queen who will literally execute you for just the simplest mistake, the list goes on and on. This game is honestly how Alice in Wonderland should've been.
Catherine Tansley I think we didn't even kill him. In the beginning of the game, if you walk to the right after leaving the orphanage, you'll see that Moorgate Station is under construction. So I think the last part, where the monster gets what he deserves, was just a hallucination.
EmptyMan000 I think it was because of the trauma of her family that caused her to go comatose, as for what she saw in madness returns that has to do with bumbys hypnotherapy sessions.
I suddenly realized how closely he resembles the teacher from the wall. I can imagine how strange the boss battle would be with Pink Floyd playing in the distance.
That horrible black ooze and those poor kids are practically living a fate worse than death, being fitted into those creepy dolls. I'd be scared to the point of crying for my mum if this happened to me.
Yeah both voices are awesome and I was wondering where MoBros got that voice since the Hiver wasn't a reused character like Jack SpongeBob or the other characters and I was beginning to wonder if MoBros actually hired Alistair McGowan to so the voice himself
It's really telling for just how reprehensible this antagonist is when his VA didn't even want to be accredited to the role, because he's that much of a monster
This was a interesting game deeper than expected a third installment needs to be made with the same care with ps5 Xbox on hand now it would be a sure hit
Alice was far from a bad person. Sure, she turned a blind eye to the suffering of those children. And, no, that wasn't okay. Far from it. But it's human to be selfish. When you're in pain, it's easy to ignore others and what they're going through.
Did you know there's a "Kingdom Hearts" fanfic focused on Roxas, in which one of the worlds he visits is this one ? It's called "The Twilight Will". But there's more nostalgic yet dark worlds to explore in it. Give it a try. I was particularly proud of the Queen and the Cat in the fanfic.
I highly recommend you read this world's story version present in a "Kingdom Hearts" fanfic called "The Twilight Will", in which the protagonist is Roxas, if he refused to abide by his own abuser (DiZ). I can promise you Bumby's ending there is even far more satisfying, and Alice's heart and mind, besides getting its revenge/justice, fully mends.
The train is coming with its shiny cars with comfy seats and wheels of star. So hush my little ones, have no fear. The man in the moon is the engineer. My personal line from the Dollmaker.
Alice: I live in a training ground for prostitutes!!! Dollmaker: no, you live in a training ground for SEX SLAVES. Prostitutes are adults who make a CHOICE to do sex work. Alice: oh, right, my bad
According to the art book, Infernal Train and the Dollmaker represents the Industrial Revolution in the real world Alice lives in. The game takes place in 1875 England where industry thrives but poor and powerless people suffer. Some exploit labour of children, who are definitely most powerless against abuse and exploitation. Some know that something is terribly wrong with the society, but they decide to ignore the problems because facing the truth makes them uncomfortable and they believe they can't fix the problems. If you play the game you'll see that all the villains in this game are those who use, maim, and kill the weak. And the ones that are not evil are too afraid or broken to care.
Ivan Victora i have thought about his sludge black eyes and mouth, and this what i come up with. i think black sludge represent no empathy for poor and sicked children in England, never feel guilt or regret as we know what he do is unbelievable horrific and he doesn't care. he is hollow husk filled with blackness in his core. but that is just what i thought what do you think?
Ivan Victora When i look at him, it shows how he see things and how he can manipulate his situation to fit his demeanor. It also shows how the orphanage is like the Dollhouse, just a facade that hides the truth. Even the two different views of the Dollhouse shows how the orphanage is, though it has a pleasant view to outsiders, it's core is a sex slave training ground for the insane. Even the intro shows how he tricks Alice to accept a new but depraved Wonderland but Alice resists. He even had a delusion of Alice's sister flirting with him, to the point that he rape her, accidentally kills her, then started the fire hoping it would kill everyone inside. Even though Alice survived, he kept an item of Alice's sister to hypnotize the insane to become docile, obedient sex slaves
In the first level of the game “The Vale of Tears” there’s I think at least 3 crying statues tha t are found throughout the level. One of them has the same black liquid coming from there eyes too much like the Dollmaker. I’m wondering if that was somehow foreshadowing the Dollmaker.
Am I the only one who think that maybe Alice disformed her memory? I mean, maybe her family was killed and her sister raped, but Bumby? When you learn it's Bumby, you first think "so that's why he was trying to make us forget!" But...what if Alice made the opposite reasoning? She would have asked herself, without even knowing it, "why does he want me to forget it?" and came up with the theory that Bumby did it. Here are my evidences: 1-How improbable is it that after her decade in the asylum, Alice is sent EXACTLY at the murderer of her family? And wouldn't it be more logical for Bumby to deny it, in order to have no risks. 2-Why, when we confront real-life Bumby, he totaly knows that you remember, and absolutly confesses it? Wasn't his plan to make you forget? 3-Wait a minute...HOW DID WE FOUND THAT F*CKER? Alice wonders in london and...BAM! Here's Bumby! What a luck! And again, he knows you remember despite his effort to make you forget! 4-So the accusation is "he want to make Alice forget in order to not be accused". I'm sorry, but this is the victorian age! This isn't that odd of a way of therapy! He is a psychologist! 5- and the most important, ALICE IS INSANE! We saw her hallucinating, have hysteric crises, and the story of the first game show catatonia, which is a symptom OF SCHYZOPHRENIA! HOW CAN YOU BELIVE ANYTHING SHE SAYS? The whole game is from Alice point of view! The "memories" we restore are absolutely not guarrented to be correct! So honestly, paranoia isn't that impossible! She probably made the whole Bumby story up! But then again, it's just a theory. A GAME THEO- wait a minute...not my punchline.
you. You beautiful minded person. Everything you said could be very well true. I mean for all we know the last scene in the game where she walks into wonder land could be her just walking through the streets of london where she starts the, what i dubbed, The alice massacre in which she went around killing all those who she may have seen as evil. such as the doctor, the nurse, hell, maybe even jack splatter. She would hallucinate them as dolls and murder them with a kitchen knife.
Heath Schneider Yeah, it's not impossible. At the begining of act 3, when she wake up in a jail, the policemen says she were convulsing in the middle of the street. Hallucinations aren't dreams, so yeah, maybe she killed people. But to be honest, we don't see Alice in the real world and not in a hallucination is, as I said, the beggining of act 3. So we are kinda missing datas to confirm.
1. It is not improbable, it just happened as fate for the sake of the story. Bumbly wasn't acting on prudence, he was acting out of lust. He wanted Alice for himself. 2. This observation and question is incomplete, what are you suggesting? 3. This observation again doesn't support your argument. 4. He wants Alice to forget so she could be his personal "doll" toy. He couldn't care less if she ever accussed him, she had no prove and he could tell everyone she has just insane again. 5. Madness is not Malice. You have no "evidences." Please watch the video shorts again I think you missed out on a lot.
TheCreatorOf4 2 and 3 -> Shorlty,the scene in the metro is probably a hallucination, so what "Bumby" said during it doesn't count. 1-> eeh good point 4-> I just said "make people forget" isn't suspicious considering how much we sucked at therapy in the victorian age. 5-> You misunderstanded what I meant. When I said Alice made it up, I meant without beeing concious of it. She didn't intentionely invented that Bumby killed har familly, she really thinks he did! But she unconsiously made it up, because guess what? She's cookoo for coco-puffs. Maybe a low form of paranoia, which made her belive Bumby was evil. And stop with the "watch again"! It pisses me of when people says that! I'm not a dumbass, I saw and understood it!
Krwzprtt Your logic here is not solid, and the cannon is clear that Bumbly was the villain. The scenes at the metro were not a hallucination, it was the climax the story was building up to finally hear Bumbly gloat about his deeds. Turning children into prostitutes was not a hallucination. The fire was real, and Bumbly was the cause of it. To deny that would be to deny the whole point of the story.
she kills him after he raped her sister and set fire to the house to hide his tracks . this is the most brutal honest game about rape and mental ilness i ever played
