Imagine the dragonborn spending days and days finding word walls and absorbing dragon souls to do a shout but a mage does the exact same thing in like 3 seconds but just with normal magic
They could. But I like to think some of these effects are too difficult to access with magicka and as such just not worth doing. That dovahvul is just uniquely qualified to produce these effects without undue cost. That maybe dragons are literally low key casting spells whenever they talk to each other because dragons of course want you to prove the truth of your words. Kinda hard to deny the truth of it when you are replicating it as you say it. Conjures up an image dragons sitting on a mountain, all telling tall tales and then one belches out some noxious fumes. Which causes offense at the target because he was just told he was talking sh*t.
@@Bionickpunk I think the fact this video exists is proof people do indeed care about shouts (Unless you mean about modding them into the game, in which case yes we sorely lack them)
@@Bionickpunk Enaisaion made Thunderchild in 2016, adds 29 shouts and a bunch of other thu'um relevant stuff to Skyrim, so it's been done a while ago
I love pre-skyrim shout lore, its so esoteric. With half of them we arent even sure if it was a shout at all, and some are just incredibly OP (Like shouting the moons into place)
my favorite shout in this vid was summon wyrm bc when im on the job (im a guard in solitude btw) i get bored and never feel quite right. there are criminals everywhere and you see i dont have a problem locking ppl up.. at ALL!!! but what if a magician came? i would be screwed. if i had a shout like summon wyrm nobody would mess with me. great vid btw but i can tell your not really a argonian.
@@dughorm depends on what kind of dragonborn his version of skyrim has, you definetely wouldn't want to summon the head of the dark brotherhood and thieves guild as a guard.
Miraak's four-word shout is actually a writing trick (although I doubt it was done intentionally knowing Bethesda's relationship with writers). If you want a character, particularly a villain, to seem even more powerful than they should be, have them break the rules of the universe. You can see it all the time in anime with characters pulling nigh-nonsensical abilities out of nowhere, but it also shows up in less overt ways, such as Darth Maul's double-bladed lightsaber in Star Wars. By telling the player that all dragon shouts are three words, it makes Miraak's four-word shout all the more impressive and makes him seem even more powerful and intimidating.
I was thinking the same, but given one of the words in the shout translates to just "is," I wonder if it actually adds any extra power to the shout or if it's just Miraak flexing on us with an unnecessary addition. If he omitted that one word, would it actually make a difference or is it just filler?
@@TheZeroNeonixThis actually is a really interesting detail, because presumably the “Your Soul is Mine” Shout was made by Miraak, so it could be that Miraak is adding the “is” to make it seem more Mortal than Dragon, which is definitely an insult that’s in character for him. …Or it was just the first shout he made, and he fucked up the Grammar, which is way more entertaining to me.
I really wish there was a levitation/dragon flight shout in vanilla Skyrim Of course they'll need a way to disable it inside cities but it could've made dungeons way more interesting if the player had access to vertical movement (also it could give the player a way to visit the end game dungeon and sovengard a second time in the post game)
A further comment about Soul Fog (Wind Strong Gale); in TES: II Daggerfall lore Nulfaga's dragon Skakmat causes an "unnatural fog" which interrupts the Battle of Cryngaine Field. Of course this comes from an era of lore before Thu'um was a thing, but I think it fits perfectly with Alduin's shout here and is probably one and the same.
A feature that would be too hard to implement but would be very cool is the ability to create your own shouts postgame. Like maybe words of power you have learned can be strung together, like fus zii ah (force spirit hunter) launches a familiar at high speeds towards a targeted wall to conjure in places not normally possible? Just an idea
You say "too hard to implement" but it sounds a lot like the spell creation in Oblivion. Thing is, Skyrim is a 30+gb game that has thousands of lines of "hidden" dialogue that only triggers if you go insane and murder Adrianne Avenici, for example. Things most players would never ever experience, even after a dozen playthroughs. If Mr. Howard put his foot down and demanded that thu'ums be allowed to be strung together individually, then it would happen. It would be buggy as hell and half the combinations would either throw you back to desktop or bluedeath your OS altogether, but it would be in the game.
I always enjoyed the implication that a dragons name was a shout, with the power equivalent to shouting at your kid in the Wal-Mart. On Alduins resurrection power, I would assume bringing dragons back to life is much easier than a mortal, because their souls seemingly stay on Nirn as a whole, instead of traveling to Aetherius, and being brought back, which can have detrimental effects on mortal souls used in Necromancy.
The way I understand it is that unless killed by someone with a dragon soul, ie a dovahkiin or another dragon, their souls remain in their bodies, but weakened. The only thing that’s “dead” is the body itself, which rots away slowly as anything else would as the weakened soul can’t keep it together. This would explain why they decompose almost instantly when the Last Dragonborn consumes their souls. I can’t actually site any specific lore for this and I can’t remember where this all came from, so it could just be a headcanon lmao
@@FlowersOfIcetor Yes, the soul seems to stay with the body. There aren't any stated sources for it, but the one dragon in the Grahtwood which is "resting" in its own corpse, led me to thinking they just stay with their own bodies on "death" since their souls are immortal, unlike the mortal spirits of man or mer
hahahaha! exactly like shouting at your kid in wal mart. that's an interesting point- do we know where their souls go? thinking about it, you're right - we can absolutely deduce that. if they stay on nirn, that adds an interesting layer. being mortal means you leave the plane when you die. being immortal means you stay in it
I mean it's obvious why they don't do it in game, but I'm surprised there aren't more tales of Dragons and Dragon Gods stringing together entire sentences, paragraphs and even songs in Dragon Language. I mean, everyone gets at Miraak for daring to have four words in a shout, but like ... This is supposed to be a language...? Languages don't usually restrict themselves to three words in any given sentence. Where are the needlessly verbose Dragons? Where are the Dragon Songs and Dragon Bards?
I think that's what's so wonderful about them - how they're actually really elusive & sort of modest. Like sure they're all about domination but that doesn't necessarily have to mean they conquer your culture with their own even though they probably could.
I presume that almost none of the powers of Thuum we see in lore sources is that simple 3 word structure we see in game. I see that as simply a video game abstraction of a concept too broad and encompassing to be otherwise represented in the highly limited medium of a video game.
That would be an incredibly fun DnD homebrew experience, if a dragon shout player could continue to create their own Words of Power, only after intense discipline would it shout
God imagine a kha'jiit mother giving birth and some nord shouts and now your child is now half that fursuit you saw in Pittsburgh and half Battlecat from He-Man
And there in the forest, when all hope was lost, Leftover Pat appeared before them and said, “I come back to you now, at the turn of the tide.” And hope filled the lost subscriber’s hearts once more.
This is one I came up with way back when. It can light up a big cave or dark room for a long while when fully pronounced. Light Breath 💫 KUN SIIV GUT! (Light Find Far)
I suspect that the effects of some shouts were significantly affected by the shouter's intent, and potentially their loudness. You could use Yol to light an entire town on fire, or use Yol to gently light a candle
Amazing video, love the fact that you included the voiced shouts, even for those that weren't voiced at all My favourite shout? Probably the event denounment or moon shift ones
the way you put the shout words in made me think of somthing. if there was a way to forge shouts like spells in oblivion; you combine different words. like how you put fus (force) in the middle of some shouts to give them some punch. IMO would be way cooler than oblivion spell table and that was already a rad mechanic
Maybe the reason that some shouts with the same words or meaning have different effects is because the user has a different understanding maybe the understandings of words for the dragons in skyrim and elsweyere evoled slightly differently
My interpretation of Event Denouement was less that it was a singular shout, but rather a series of songs and verses of Thu'um sung and strung together, like chain-casting Shouts or Words in an effort to rewrite the "Script" or the "sheet music" of a battle or event. Hence how Vivec could stop it the way he did, since it probably requires Barfok to recite thw whole sequence to completion without interruption. Granted, this probably makes this particular use of Thu'um something similar to Tonal Architecture, which makes sense since Thu'um, Tonal Architecture, and Sword-Singing all operate under the same basic principle.
I LOVE THIS interpretation!! That's so well thought out with strings and makes it so much cooler than I imagined. I wonder if Sword Singing will make it in as a superpower if TES6 is in Hamfell
This brings up one of those things that grates on my nerves in Skyrim++. In Skyrim, you're extra special. You suck up dragon souls like candy and just magically instantly understand the language. You're even taught the words INDIVIDUALLY. And shouting is just understanding the language that dragons speak. Dragons debate/argue rather violently. LOL So, presumably, so can you. ...Except, you can't? You can't experiment. You can't create. You can only say memorized phrases like you're reading from a travel guide to a foreign land. Which miiiiiight have been okay ... if not for, you know, ALCHEMY, a long-standing mechanic of mix-and-match experimentation. It's a HUGE logical conflict of game mechanics, because Beth gonna Beth.
I noticed a little thing: Thu'um is pretty much always associated with the colors blue and orange in its "pure" form. When you learn a Word of Power from a wall, it glows blue and streams blue light out to you, that turns orange as it approaches you. The spectral armor summoned by Dragon Aspect is blue and orange too.
leftover pat i really want you to know that long break was painful but i am so glad this video got uploaded i love these lore videos and theory videos probably some of the best i've seen amazjng work
the idea of there being a shout to summon shoes is hilarious, especially when you consider the difficulty of humans making their own shouts (dragonrend). this implies that the dragons had a use for shoes somehow.
It's worth noting that most of the "shouts" described before the release of Skyrim were not related to dragons at all. The Voice was originally an entirely Nordic thing, and was based in a sort of shamanic relationship with nature. It was a lot more vague back then.
14:28 Oh this might explain a mod i found that added in the perite cultist vomit attack, but instead of a power, it was a three word shout you learned from interacting with a nearby item to the perite shrine involve din his daedric quest.
Something that wasn't mention is that shouts are the casters' interpretation of the words Odaving yol would have very different effects to parathanaxs yol because their compression is different its why parrthanax breaths fire on you when you meet Wow I just watch a 30 minute video about dragon shouts and somehow I feel too nerdy
Fun fact about the bile attack from Peryite's quest: the game also classifies that as a shout, even though it isn't one! It's called Vile Vapor, and it's composed by the same word three times, which has no name nor sound, and simply stacks the poisonous effect of the attack Sadly there's no way to obtain it without console commands, leaving it unique to the afflicted. Btw, very interesting video man, loved the part about the ancient lore shouts, with their power and versatility makes you really feel like you learned to speak by reading on some walls ☠️
some of these would be so great if any modder could add them into skyrim like the teleport one is something i always wanted to use on sneak character builds and it would be amazing to combine throw voice, aura whisper and the teleport shout to make the ultimate assassin, and lastly a shout that makes you invisible would be amazing
Vivecs sermons and Kirkbride texts are just endless wells of goofy lore. Also, I wonder if the never melting snow shout could relate to memories turning into water (a piece of lore from eso’s mistress of the lake quest) maybe not but def got me thinking 🤔
You're onto something: we know from what MK wrote of the 2nd ed. Pocket Guide and an alternate Tamriel that "froze over" that snow is stasis and "time detritus". We also know that Atmora was lost to that same phenomenon and "froze over", and the Nords have interesting sayings, like staying still too long to ponder and evaluate a situation will make you "freeze to death". Given that Time is the prime antithesis to Chaos, and water-is-memory also is water-is-chaos (the waters of Oblivion, the pure chaos of Sithis/Padomay/Fadomai), what else is snow that refuses to thaw but a refusal to move on and begin anew, a stagnated form of water and memories that is sterile and lethal?
For 'Shouts into Hell' the Shout may specifically banish into the plane of Apocrypha, since Hermaeus Mora was the Daedric 'Old God' the Atmorans had the most knowledge of and experience with iirc.
i always interpreted dovahzul being a lingual form tonal architecture natural to the dov attunement to the flow of time. the nords picked it up with the help of Paarthurnax and kyne but the reason some shouts work the same as others and other shouts can do different stuff when used by different individuals is because language is modular, based on intent and interpretation. The Dwemer worked around this by simply creating devices capable of producing perfect harmonised and universally interpretable pitch. in other words if all of nirn is one song the use of thu'um is the process of changing or rearranging notes and tonal architecture the process of tuning and bending pitch.
28:11 Right those are the full names of these individual dragons, but "Dovahkin" isn't the proper name of the player during ESV (Skyrim). "Dovahkin" is more of a title or role, and there is more than one person whom are Dovahkiin.
Great video. Lovely editing. A subject I never cared too much so thanks for the knowledge about ESO Elsweyr dragon lore (something I was deviating to check).
Right? For every week I pretend ESO lore doesn't exist, I'm met with astoundment a week later and find myself loving it on paper. tbh ESOs dialogue system never landed with me but when I finally commit it's like a long lost friend
The idea the concept of shouting existed before in the lore has me real curious if the gimmick of elder scrolls 6 will follow suit and be the Sword Singing
@@l0sts0ul89 why? Sword singing is the big unique skill of the Redguards of Hammerfell and thats the location of the next game we think. Yokudan lore of the walkabout them possibly being from a previous calpa and the sword singing will definitely play a role if thats the case thats literally how they have explored stuff in other games. Sword singing itself is a interesting idea for gameplay too since you basically sing weaponry into existence and this can easily be a unique way of fighting bit more limited then the shouts yes but i can see having etheral floating blades fighting alongside you be pretty cool…
I would absolutely love a MCM-toggleable mod that's the opposite of a main quest delayer, strongly encouraging you through stat drain or other mechanics to go to the Greybeards once summoned and ultimately culminating in their sending further encouragement through distant shouts and phantom forms. Perhaps a Greybeard emissary could rapidly Whirlwind Sprint to you or worse to force you to the bottom of the Steps? Love the concept. The shout having *some* effect on the player is cool however light the mods application may be.
I definitely feel like Resurrection is an ability that can only be used on dragons that haven't had their soul devoured by another dragon/dragonborn, or by dragons/dragonborn that have already devoured the soul of the dragon they're trying to resurrect. Since only dragons can *permanently* kill other dragons according to lore sources. But even despite that, they can still be "killed" by regular people since they were also hunted down in lore by the blades. By that logic, I think resurrection could technically resurrect anybody, but only so long as their soul was still in the body, or otherwise possessed by the caster, an example could be someone who's soul is trapped in a gem you possess, you could cast resurrection on their body and draw the soul back out of the gem, or by using it on a body with their ghost nearby. But if used on a body who's soul is in aetherius or another plane, and not nearby, the being cannot be resurrected.
Unrelenting Pull would be devastating for someone proficient in throwing weapons, or even using the shout on objects nearby to blindside enemies with debris and rubble and such. Heck, toss out a couple dozen daggers around the area and then call one towards yourself any time an enemy is between you and your dagger(s).
The wind dagger whatever shout is worthy of a mod. A shout that requires a bit more precision. Like a firebolt spell but requires winding up before it gets released.
Hey, could you do a video talking about how the hold forts in Skyrim work? Like why soldiers will sometimes move in and sometimes they won't. In the base game, they seem to be pretty broken and the wikis don't seem to know how they work.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that someone decided to create a universe where you could theoritically shout anything at someone really fucking loud and the things you say just happen? Sure It takes years of practice or a little bit of genocide to do so but man how satysfing would that be.
Mod PSA: "Thoom" by Keysmash2c on the Nexus adds "19 Unique lore based shouts including unattainable ones seen in Skyrim, shouts from ESO, and more from written lore sources." (Source, modpage.) Some shouts included in this mod are: Devour Soul (Ziil Los Dii Du), Soul Fog (Ven Mul Riik), Sky Sickness (Stun Pook Liiv), and Resurrect Dragon (Slen Tiid Vo)
Unfortunately I can't remember the name, but the guy who did the Winter Sun religion mod also did one that allowed the unlocking of new shouts via meditation at High Hrothgar.
When it comes to Slen Tiid Vo/Flesh Time Un/The Resurrect shout, I've always thought of it not as resurrection but ultimate restoration of the body. Because all those dragons souls are still intact, and (though I really need to verify this/look into it more) because their souls weren't devoured their bodies/bones and souls are still bound together (because they're not truly dead. Do the dragons even have an afterlife or is their only fate eternal life or to be consumed and become part of another dragon or the dovahkiin?) (I have not looked at the ESO stuff, so if theres anything about that, oops. Though what you shared in this vid is neat) And also, the spell mentions nothing of the dragons soul, only their body, their flesh. Anyway I always kinda assumed the shout was reversing the ravages of time, returning their body to an intact state in which they can now use and properly inhabit again. Your comment about if its a dragon only shout. I imagine perhaps mortals could learn it, but because their souls are not bound to their bodies, without an additional component to return the soul, it would not succeed.
That's totally true! I should have mentioned that. It's interesting because it's a case where a word of power is spoken but the power itself doesn't trigger - it just writes a word to give to someone
8:22 I think it’s far more likely that this shout grants temporary invincibility/invulnerability to the caster and their allies. Kinda like if you used a mod that lets you make all of your followers essential.
My headcanon is the resurrection one can only work on dragons as dragon souls stay with the body when dead, unless a dragonborn shows up, and don't have an afterlife they go to. So what the shout is doing is just putting flesh back on the bones. With mortals, the sout would need to find and rip the person's soul out of whatever afterlife, soul gem, or reincarnated body they are in.
i know no one wants to consider it canon but the ESO official twitter gave us a shout to ask a dragon out and i would have put it in this video just for the hell of it
It th'um a form of tonal architecture manipulation or its just magic ? It felt so just slapped on in skyrim, oh yeah you have second set of powers that do basically what spells do. 10 out of 10 amazing creativity Todd
Its all magic. The difference comes from the base technique used to make it happen. The base magic of TES is based on magicka. Which is credited as being power from the stars, which mean it is power from the gods as the stars are the holes the gods and their kin whom could escape made as they left creation. Shouts use some sort of spiritual vitality to give force to the command the shouts entail. Instead of star power you are using your own innate strength as a being to tell the world what you want to happen. Tonal architecture seems to work on harmonizing with the innate frequency of creation everything has. But in the end it is all the same thing. Just different mechanics to move the same gears. It is cool to think that magic isn't this single note thing in TES but something that can be accessed in a multitude of ways. That different peoples discovered their own techniques for using the powers of creations.
The spells use power drawn from aetherius, and the Thu'um/Tonal magic/sword singing use power drawn from mundus. That being said, all those are separate ways to draw that power. I believe that in lore the mundus drawn power has far more potential power (Likely because it's drawn from where it's used) being able to shift the stars and moons, and shift entire continents (If the books mentioning that are to be believed)
Love the vid. I do have a question that I have never goten the answer to. What do the different war paints in Skyrim symbolize? I've always wanted to know that extra lore not only for my own characters background in Skyrim, but for the Elder Scrolls D&D campaign I'm going to host. I think it would be a fantastic way to learn about different peoples cultures in TES as well.
To be honest, I always thought they were for aesthetics in Skyrim & nothing else. I'm sure there's some depth to them. I know Argonians there's some lore in there too. Let me know if you find anything in research :) I'd love to dive in too
@@LeftoverPat From what I could gather there is lore for them, but I cant seem to find a full source on it. I keep going in circles lol. From what I have gathered.. the patterns of the paint and even the colorization can have different meanings in the Tamrielic cultures. Like how the Dunmer have some paints that symbolize a daedric prince they are devoted to. Or how some Argonian paint colors can symbolize what Hist trees that Argonian was born under. It makes it rather difficult to find a solid lore source when there is no dedicated wiki scource lol. I also find it interesting that there are war paints that are in Morrowind and not Skyrim and how some bandits in Skyrim only wear a select few paints. I have read that people have seen in game loading screens talking about war paints in Skyrim, but I have not found any. If you do go down this obscure rabbit hole... Best of luck. I hope you find more solid information that what I could find.
