All About Cyberpunk - Ep. 102 of Intentionally Blank 

"I am to philosophy what a philosophy degree is to your resume" is an amazing line

Cyberpunk 2077 is indeed set in Mike Pondsmith's Cyberpunk universe. He was even heavily involved in making the game. Really enjoyed listening to this!

Short and sweet Cyberpunk definition: high tech, low life.

I will always be thankful to mr. Sanderson for finishing wheel of time. It was my first fantasy series and i will forever cherish it. Thank you, so much for taking on such a risk doing justice to the series.

Dan choosing Derry Girls as his favorite IP is classic Dan!

Clearly we need Gatepunk: sci-fantasy centered around political scandals. GRRM can be the grandfather of the genre.

On the topic of bionic hands/arms: My fiancee was born missing a bit below the elbow onward on her right arm, so she's got a few inches of the forearm. About 5 years ago she went through the process and was able to get a bionic hand. This works by attaching the hand to a polycarbonate arm-socket prosthetic, which contains a battery and two electrodes, one each on the front and back of the forearm. The muscle actions that open and close, rotate, and change grip pattern of the hand are the same that would flex or extend the hand at the wrist joint in varying combinations. We've done a little looking into what's currently available. They've had a little success with the "brain wave" type function in a few ways. The most interesting to me is an implantation of biopsied muscle from elsewhere on the individual into the arm with further implantation of electrodes and leads connected to those pieces of muscle individually. This does require extensive training to create that mind-muscle connection, but it's pretty cool. There is also lots of work being done with osseointegration and using nerve signaling, which is also extremely interesting and probably ultimately the best route forward for limb different individuals. Funny enough, the big hurdle seems to be measuring... Intent and Command :)

Was this the philosophical quandary of Brandon being asked to finish the Wheel of Time?

Akira is THE key Cyberpunk work from Japan in the 80s and it also was one of the first anime to breach the gap and become really popular in America, leading it to influence a lot of other Cyberpunk works and define the West's perception of Japanese animation for it's generation. So I'd say that's probably the biggest reason why Cyberpunk and Japan are often linked. Tokyo makes a convenient influence for a huge futuristic city with emphasis on technological advancement as well

Brandon proposes great question, Dan proceeds to avoid question while discussing Dairy Girls.

I also ADORE Cyberpunk! I'm writing a book series set in a cyberpunk universe and I love original works from back in the 70s and 80s

I just want to say that I love this podcast, and I look forward to it weekly. The world needs more nerdy friendships like Dan+Brandon! Thanks for saying nerdy things and letting us listen in :)

You guys are the ONLY people I have ever heard talk about Uglies

Now I need an episode where Dan gets Brandon to watch Gravity Falls

"I'm deeply upset it's called cyberpunk because it makes searching for other cyberpunk stuff..." 100% agree! So annoying

pretty certain that Cyberpunk 2077 is a continuation of or based in the RPG Cyberpunk by Mike Pondsmith

1984 was the best cyberpunk story ever told. Rebellion agianst insturmountable technological oppression. Delicious.

I don't know if they mention it (haven't finished the video yet), but my absolute favorite Cyberpunk universe is Shadowrun. Just all around cool stuff going on with it, love the stories that the games tell with companion characters too. Edit: they didn't bring it up :(

The first time cyberpunk was used was as the title of Bruce Bethke's short story "cyberpunk" .. Not to be confused with Bruce Sterling, a cyberpunk author that is the close friend of the most famous cyberpunk author/the man that is considered by most the father of cyberpunk, William Gibson who invented the word "cyberspace" and used words like "the matrix" in his books, words that he had learned overhearing IT nerds talk. Cyberpunk is largely collection of sci fi concepts wrapped around a punk aesthetic and attitude. It's why most of the time people talk about early cyberpunk it's not all cyberpunk it just has some cyberpunk themes or technologies. Cyberpunk without the aesthetic and attitude isn't cyberpunk

Ohh! As a self-published cyberpunk author, it's fantastic to see people talking about my favourite genre! There's so many good stories coming out nowadays, and the genre's really booming!

As a huge fan of the cyber punk genre this was a deeply enjoyable episode. Thank you both so much.

I really enjoyed the punkgate discussion!

I think Altered Carbon (book 1), Mirror's Edge and Black Mirror (some episodes) are worth talking about when talking about Cyberpunk. Personally I also really enjoyed Snow Crash. And I really hope Brandon ends up writing that Mistborn Cyberpunk era someday.

I clicked on this thinking, "Oh! They're gonna talk about the game!" Fell right into the trap Dan talks about at 9:06.

Executive producer with someone else taking the helm who can handle the property well is the best answer.

Bruce Bethke... Man, Dan, that is the first time someone has had me look something up in awhile! Kudos! 😆

I think the popularity of metaverse/VR-related stories is because of the narrative possibilities they offer, not because they were ever seen as a convincing vision of the future. They’re the SF version of portal fantasies.

Cyberpunk is why I lean conservative and want the decentralization of entertainment and government.

The topic of "punkifying" fantasy/sci-fi came up in a discord call I had with a friend. We were talking about the Kiseki/Trails RPG series because I've been playing them lately and I was trying to describe the sort of anachronism stew that the setting has, mixing tech levels from the industrial revolution, the 40's, the mid-to-late 90's, and even beyond, and I was floundering for a way of describing it, and he suggested that it was "some kinda punk" I kinda wish there were a term for it beyond "some kinda punk" tbh, because it's not REALLY a punk-ish series, referring to the musical style. It's just a fantasy series.

Dan and brandon teasing us now. Tell us about the Desk! 😂😂😂

The best part of this. These two gentlemen and scholars, do this to sign stuff. Then they forget to sign stuff. Not to mention the digression of their digression has fallen into disrepair somewhere down the line, so they segway to what they really had planed to talk about, without addressing the original point. That's about right. Chef's kiss. Would you rather? Take a job, when you have no cash but are a bad fit, or starve, but know odds are someone better than you will do the work? If you choose starve, that better be an important thing you didn't do. If you choose the work, it is because the possible paycheck is worth it. The answer is you would take the gig & hope. I kinda describes Brandon's start.

The Japanese connection to cyberpunk predates the birth of their own cyberpunk tradition, which is interesting. I don't know if it was a response to the place of their culture as somewhat villainized in Western fiction or not. I do know that the basic idea of the Asian aesthetic was birthed out of the East's rapid modernization where old and new mixed so much that the new seemed unfamiliar, being a perfect backdrop for a society which was increasingly electricized and computerized. It definitely was of an era, but I think there's plenty of room for modern day cyberpunk as well.

Hooker with a heart of gold--classic trope of Cyberpunk. Both Blade Runners have the hard-boiled cop analog and some elements of the hooker thing going. The game has that too. I'd recommend playing it, as it does have a number of real-future-looking-feels-bad-that-this-is-true-man moments. Especially the main and Delamain stories (important to read all the emails on the computers to get more understanding). The Cyberpsychosis is also poignant and Johnny's arguments, but they are a little abstruse. Also, Deus Ex is entirely a form of super cop, and excellent games that, especially with Mankind Divided, hit what the future may look like.

Love this episode!

This video came at an interesting time. I just started watching Edgerunners.

So glad Brandon mentioned Frostpunk. That game is incredible, and everyone should play it.

All I hear is that we will get a surprise MB cyberpunk era at the same time or right after era 3. BS needs Dan to write it because of time and familiarity with the genre🎉😂

Akira is a big reason why Cyberpunk and Japan are closely linked, along with other hugely influential anime that informed much of the aesthetics of the genre going forward from the 80s.

I was teaching high school (taught Hunger Games with an amazing lesson where I had them create their own Muttations) when the Dystopia craze got out of hand. I've read a fair number in order to fill my shelves, but there were quite a few poorly written ones also. What a great podcast topic this week!

Other then Akira as it’s been mentioned I would include the following. Bubblegum Crisis, Ghost in the Shell, A.D. Police (same world as bubblegum crisis), Mardok Scramble, and Cyber City Oedo 808. Edit: Alita: Battle Angel (blanked out on this one) but all could be considered cyberpunk.

As an amputee, I would love for cybernetics to provide even better mobility.

I love Cyberpunk! I’m reading Neuromancer very soon!

7:33: "To say 'take [A Song Of Ice And Fire] away from the creator who's still alive and still working on it,' yeah, that is very insulting." Still alive, sure. But much like _The Doors of Stone,_ people wouldn't be saying things like this if the available evidence gave them a good reason to believe the "still working on it" part. Remember, the most recent one came out the same year as Brandon published _Alloy of Law._

We are SO CLOSE to DEUS EX cyberpunk games, with all the synthetic implants, corporations, division between people pro-implants vs human purity, etc.

Since it was mentioned multiple times, did they ever do an episode about Gravity Falls? that show deserves an episode.

I love Frostpunk! Though that game does not love me. It has such an amazing sound track. I can't wait for the second one to come out.

"Cyberpunk This!" is my favorite line from Cyberpunk

I was JUST talking about how to define cyberpunk with my coworkers a few days ago, this is perfect! I'm gonna come in with a slight counterpoint: VR actually IS seeing quite a boom and becoming an incredibly versatile tech, Facebook's Metaverse just suuuucks 😂 People in platforms like VR Chat have worked out full body tracking, dynamic movable character rigs, facial recognition, and competely custom avatars to be whatever you want (instead of Zuck's floating torso with legs), and there's worlds that put some AAA games to shame with the detail and creativity. There's even been VR conventions rising from the pandemic, with one last year getting almosk 10k attendees!

For decades my go-to answer to the opening question was “Lost in Space”. I had ideas! But the Netflix series was superb, so that’s gone. (Which is a relief, especially since it was so well done.) My new one is Space: 1999. I have a really good pitch to update it while keeping the best aspects of the original. Space: 2099. Time for some manifesting!

Just a reminder that Brandon uses the word “gearpunk” in the acknowledgment section of the Rithmatist to describe the books genre.

I enjoyed Snow Crash as well. Neal Stephenson and Bruce Sterling are the cyberpunk authors I can wrap my head around.

34:05 I can agree that Gibson's books get better as they go along, but Count Zero will forever be my favorite because of the opening chapter. Turner's backstory is probably the highlight of the series for me.

How about this controversial take: Isaac Asimov's Foundation or Frank Herbert's Dune are "core" cyberpunk.

The thing about P.K. Dick being the first cyberpunk author is that his cyberpunk book is not Do Androids... , but rather Ubik. It more or less satisfice all genre criteria, and handles deeply cyberpunk-ian themes.

39:10 I think it happened because Kanji is an amazing language for large square or vertical signs. especialy when compared to latin languages

Regarding the metaverse stuff - anyone who has ever done a call on Skype or Zoom should know that idea was never going to sell. Joining a call on a modern meeting app is usually one click - and even that is too complex. Every meeting takes 5-10 to get started due to mic issues, wrong clicks on the email, etc. And somehow, we are going to evolve this into a giant wearable helmet that introduces way more complications? "hey, I think I flew to the wrong building. Which floor is the room in again? I tried to teleport but my game crashed" etc, lol. The metaverse might work one day as a purely AR, hands-free/gadget-free/helmet-free experience but there's no way in heck anyone is going to spend 8 hours with a VR helmet on, lol.

'Vurt' by Jeff Noon, and his other works within the same world, are some of my favourite books, and have a lot of cyberpunk elements. They could also be considered not 'true' cyberpunk, but I'm not sure exactly what genre they would be considered as they're so unique. I discovered them five years ago and am sad that I hardly hear them talked about in any book communities! There's also a TTRPG based on the world of Vurt. They are pretty stylised and maybe not for everyone, but Noon is one of my favourite authors and inspirations as a writer, second only to Terry Pratchett.

Ok now I need Brandon and Dave to talk about the Cyberpunk anime, Cowboy Beebop, and Blade Runner

There's a great mitchell and webb sketch explaining watergate-gate because it is a scandal about watergate and not a scandal about water.

Terms better than "Punk" My daughter and Wife use the term "Core" when things in a very similar way that "punk" is used. So my daughter designs a room in a game to look like a cottage. She calls it "Cottage Core" My wife designs our porch to be like a jungle she called it "Jungle core" And they can google these terms and find others who are using the same exact terms. And as well I already see games and small youtube shows being refered to with the "Core" term. A scary game was "Zombie core" and a kitty based youtube show was "Kitty core" I think this fits well into what "Punk" is being used for better. So Cyber core could have the same look as "Cyberpunk" the game. But if it has a different lore and story then "Punk would not be used. So the game Cyberpunk to me is Cyber-Core with some punk aspects in the world.

Ah I forgot I subbed to Brandon. I'm definitely not dissapointed. I love cyberpunk.

Just a thought; It has been some time since I actually read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, but Blade Runner, apparently, was quite in line, visually, with Philip K. Dick vision of that future. While he didn't live to see the film released, he was able to view some complete footage, and he is said to have been very impressed, and is quoted as having stated that it felt, to him, like Ridley Scott has reached right into his head and extracted his vision of it. Assuming the book doesn't really have any of that in it, and assuming that it's true that Dick said these things about his early screenings of the film, it could be interesting to discuss the disparity such as why are they so different if the world is meant to look like that? Is that any sort of problem? And, what are the advantages and disadvantages to leaving out certain world details, in this case, those that Dick did not include in his novel, but he clearly envisioned them when he wrote it?

The first three minutes of this is just Brandon and Dan saying, "hmmm, yes" 😂

You are referring to Blade Runner, especially the flight through the city. You know the inspiration for this scene comes from Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" (1929/2010)? It's worth a watch, and also the documentary about the discovery of the long lost reels and the making of exactly that scene!

"We don't actually want flying cars." WRONG. That's all I wanted from the future.

No mention of Pat Cadigan 😮 !!! Such a powerful influence for me! 17:35

would've loved for the original to be brought up!

Regarding the conversation about VR, one of the most interesting recent fictional takes I’ve seen about VR was A Beautifully Foolish Endeavor by Hank Green.

If you want good, contemporary, relevant cyberpunk, then look to T. R. Napper. His works: Neon Leviathan (2020), 36 Streets (2022), Ghost of the Neon God (2024), and The Escher Man (2024). He's won a bunch of awards in his home country of Australia, and is highly regarded.

10:30 The genre got its name from a short story literally called "Cyberpunk" in the very early 80's. "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" was just considered to be sci-fi at the time, but fell under the genre after more books following "Cyberpunk" had a sort of common thread in terms of world style and themes explored. Neuromancer, Mirrorshades, Hardwired, When Gravity Falls, etc. It's a bit weird considering the name of the genre was pulled from the title of a book. 2077 is set in Pondsmith's ttrpg world. I believe the original tabletop game is set in like 2013? There's also a new version of the ttrpg subtitled Red, but I haven't played it so I'm not entirely sure what the deal is with it. Pondsmith's world is called Cyberpunk because the characters you play as are referred to as Cyberpunks which gets funny because it's a noun that's the name of a genre in which that genre got its name from a book.

Please Mr.Sanderson, write a cyberpunk book. PLEASE

Quite late commenter. One big reason that Japan is so cemented in cyberpunk is how connected the corporations are. We look at Meta or Amazon and wonder if they’re too intrusive (which sure, they are), but look at Mitsubishi. Cars, Ac units sure. But also the biggest bank in Japan and 9th biggest in the world.

Open Bionics hero arms are controlled by signals from your brain, but they interface with the skin on your residual limb. Per their website: The Hero Arm is a myoelectric prostheses. When a user intentionally flexes specific muscles in their residual limb, EMG electrodes within the Hero Arm detect tiny electrical signals, allowing them to activate different grips with precise, proportional control.

Dude, I forgot about Uglies. Excellent books

What about Richard Morgan and his Altered carbon series? It felt like 1 of the more modern cyber punk properties for me.

was not expecting there you go ben. can we expect new ben outros in the future?

“Excuse me while I pee myself!” 😂😂😂

From Encyclopedia Britannica: The word cyberpunk was coined by writer Bruce Bethke, who wrote a story with that title in 1982. He derived the term from the words cybernetics, the science of replacing human functions with computerized ones, and punk, the cacophonous music and nihilistic sensibility that developed in the youth culture during the 1970s and ’80s. Science-fiction editor Gardner Dozois is generally credited with having popularized the term.

Just for mentioning DEEP PURPLE, thumbs up!

TRON has always been ahead of its time

The CS geek version of this is that there are several volumes remaining of The Art of Computer Science (and the author, at 85, is still making good progress on it) but "don't worry, if Knuth doesn't finish it, they'll get Sanderson to"

Until this edition of Intentionally Blank I didn't realize that the Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells had cyberpunk elements in it.

I am surprised Dan didn't mention (or probably doesn't know) about Akira or Battle Angel Alita. Especially Akira whose influences can be seen in cyberpunk media all over the world after it

Heck yeah Dan, Imogen Heap rules

Love Bluescreen.

10:30 Instead of the term cyberpunk I think Dan means cyberspace, coined in William Gibson's Neuromancer novel [1983] . Gibson's short story Fragments of a Hologram Rose [1977] isn't cyberpunk per se, but his Johnny Mnemonic [1981] is.

Cyberpunk 2077 was also heavily based on 'Hardwired', by Walter Williams

Today I learned its Derry not Dairy. I assumed it was teen girls working on a dairy ranch.

Yeah there are so many book series that people think Sanderson should/could finish where the style change and type of story would just make it impossible. I find it weird that people even bring up Song of Ice and Fire and think it fits with what Sanderson writes.

Cyberpunk 2077 is based on Cyberpunk, the TTRPG (later called cyberpunk 2020, exactly to differentiate it from the genre). But the term is indeed coined by Bruce Bethke in his work 'Cyberpunk' in 1983. So Cyberpunk the TTRPG was created well before anyone could have really predicted that it would later become super popular and ruin google search results. It makes a lot of sense that Cyberpunk 2077 is retro modern, because the setting was created in 1988. It has been adapted to the modern era in bits though. Newer editions for example have a lot more wireless technology (which is practically non existant in the original) that in the Cyberpunk universe have happened a lot later to match modern technologies. Cyberpunk 2077 has 57 more years of setting history than cyberpunk 2020 after all.

Hank Green (sci Fi author, RU-vidr, professional social media understander) has had a similar conversation about why people don't seem to want VR in a way sci Fi would have expected. He thinks that it's simply that smart phones are too good. They are the virtual reality- when you scroll on Tik Tok or Twitter or Reddit, etc. Are you not being transported to the world wide internet to connect with billions of other people? He argues that smartphones are the dissociation portal that sci Fi expected

I’d say the craze for YA lately been leaning more towards LitRPG, like as soon as I search books in scifi or fantasy is YA centric LitRPG

20:03 Shadow Children by Haddix for me 👌🏼

This episode was a couple weeks too early, before Apple’s AR headset announcement. I’m curious what their initial thoughts are on it

Rollerball, a movie from 1975, based on a story published in 1973, produced/directed by the great Normal Jewison, was unbelievably cyberpunk before there was a genre.

It's not possible for Neuromancer to have inspired Blade Runner - Blade Runner came out 2 years before Neuromancer was published. It is possible earlier stories, like Johnny Mnemonic might have been inspiration though.

7:37: Still alive and still working on it. Well, I'd say the second part of that statement is debatable. I think we should normalize the fact that some of these sweeping, epic sagas just get finished and that is okay. We live in a time when there are more great fantasy books published than one could realistically read in a lifetime.

Ready Player One? Dystopia, Corporate rule, Poverty, AI/VR as escapism / means getting around corporate rule.🤔

Johnny Mnemonic is a great example of cyberpunk.

I'm curious now whether Silver Metal Lover counts as cyberpunk, I would recommend it if it does because I remember it being a book that took me places.