I've managed to stay away from Warhammer lore for 30+ years of my life, but now I've fallen into this trap and feel it will consume a great portion of my free time in the years to come
the end and the death is a amazing book and book 2 is coming out in november. book 3 next year. things are starting to get good with the lion coming back!!!!
Yeah I'm 44 I remember calling my friend nerds at 16 as they were into 40k . At about 26/7 as a lotr ( totally not a nerd) fan 😂. I was left a considerable sum of inheritance from my grandparents. For about a year myself and my brother spent an estimated 2 to 2.5 grand each on GW lotr models paints, the grass, bushes and trees ( it was called static grass I think and a mossy stuff). We bought the insulation board thing and the hot wire cutter that used a couple stonking big batteries. We maybe painted 100 figures each! The local table top games shop loved us. You could see them mentally rubbing their hands together when we walked in. I have boxes upon boxes of unopened armies and packs. Never mind the paint that dried up as we didn't realise we may not use every colour! Unboxed helm's deep springs to mind a couple unpainted cave trolls probably 5 packs of dried up green stuff 😂. Yeah not my smartest move. ( Tried to play the game once and decided it's not for us). I did enjoy the painting though 😂
What's truly amazing is that, according to Big E and his lore, the only primarch that's effectively un-revivable is Horus - dude straight had his soul deleted. This is confirmed when the clone of Horus shows up he lacks the 'spark' that made him a Primarch - Abbadon notices that right before he kills the clone.
@@Joe-rb8junoo, at least the old 3rd ed and earlier lore had him board an enemy ship which then blew up. The only part of dorn they found was his hand so we never got confirmation of death.
@@Nosian76 In old lore his entire Skelton was encased in amber except his hands which were held in different places on the phalanx. The chapter masters the engraved their names on his hands. Space Marine by Ian Watson Chapter 6
@Joe-rb8ju it has been 20 years since I read the 800 page "40k bible" of all the gathered lore at that time but I am pretty confident that they only had the skeleton of his hand and dorn, while presumed dead, was left open for a potential return like most of the loyalist primarchs.
Just confirmed 2 Robute and the Lion who both were relatively “recently” revived. Rogal, Leman, the Khan and Vulkan are all legit MIA with nearly zero information, recent sightings, and vague promises and hints that they are still alive but they aren’t on the front lines. Corvus is a loyalist demon that wants to murder lorgar. So the loyalist are effectively out of the picture until GW wants to bring back another one.
@@Theemptythroneistakenthey simply made more and more Space Marine with the latest tech from adeptus mechanicus. Roboute Guilliman is a master of strategy and organizing, while the chaos forces, tyranids, and orks are just brutal diorganized warmonger. With the help of Lion, and to be discovered Vulkan, The Wolf, Dorn, and Corax, the imperium of men shall rise again
@Theemptythroneistaken well, i am kind of blowing hot air because this is ultimately just my opinion. But I've always thought the underlying tone of 40k is that that chaos is an embodiment of anything negative of humanity, and any other beings for that matter. So it's literally and metaphorically a galaxy wide war between "Good and evil" and in that way no matter how overwhelming the odd, neither side can outright defeat the other unless all life is eradicated for there to no longer be nonpious thoughts to be had. And in that case chaos doesn't win but just disappears with its counterpart.
Some primarchs we know but the ones we don't here are my theories: Dorn was saved from death by Omegon during the black crusade and put in stasis to heal but due to Omegon's fear and hatred of Dorn he's been left in stasis. Omegon is still loyal but realised he can't stey within the galaxy itself, he's currently out on the fringes working directly with the space sharks. Jaghati was lost in the webway and taken by Cegorach and will be released when the trickster gods decides to let him go. Leman is in the warp and is searching for the tree of life but has recently stumbled on Isha after her escape from Nurgle and his helping her survive. Corax is still in the warp fighting a cobstant battle against demons while trying to get to Lorgar. Vulkan is trapped by Gork and Mork in the warp after he was sent there by the massive waaagh energy when he killed the beast. I would also include Clonegrim in the list of primarchs but we know where he is.
@fracturedrealitygaming1326 in 40k, the collective belief of a race generates warp shenanigans. Example all humans believe the emp to be a god that grants him even more power. Orks are the same 10x since they are fucking warmongering retards that believe in gork and Mork. hence those two probably exist in the warp.
It's believed the 11 primarch is alive and Locked away in the Imperial palace because they have a prisoner there called Subject 11 and he is Guarded by a bunch of Custodes.
Ferrus should return as a living metal pariah primarch. In one hand it would be good that he's back and the Iron hands have there primarch return. But it dooms his chapter as his last wish was to rid them of there addiction to robotic and cybernetic enhancements. Him returning dooms the Iron hands forever . A true tragic and grim dark return. Not a cheap cop out, just to bring him back as a ghost of a different chapter
There's no canon artwork or description of daemon prince Perturabo atm. But it will be revealed soon because they are releasing models of the late stage heresy traitor primarchs
Technically Alpharius is still alive, only one Primarch met the real Alpharius and that was Lion El' Jonson. The other Primarchs met Omegon (wich was murdered by Rogal Dorn). So, Alpharius is still alive
@@Metalsonic91 Nope, the 3 heads of the Hydra means Alpharius, Omegon and The Legion itself. No, While Alpharius went with his crew in search of his Twin Brother (Omegon) he came across the Flag Ship of The Lion. When they boarded the ship they had a small chat with Lion El'Jonson. In Short, Alpharius claimed to be just another Astarte just like the others (That was a lie) searching for his missing Primarch (That is also a lie but also is the truth). *Speeding Up the Book* He Eventually met Omegon, and they had that Twin Connection as Brothers. After a Long talk between them, they planned that Omegon become the Public Face of the Legion while Alpharius stays in the shadows. So, when all the primarchs join Big E, everyone met Omegon. That's when the Main quote of the Book shows up. "Who are You My brother?" -Horus "Me? I Am Alpharius (and That was a Lie)" -Omegon
As long as their souls exist they are not completely dead:P I think Horus is the only one that is completely gone, but he has been cloned and i dont know how that works when it comes to souls ;D.
4:23 there is a novel in "primarchs" where we learn that omegon and alpharius have a special ability . If one of them legionnaire drinks there blood, he will became omegon/alpharius for severals hours : same face, same memories, etc ... But an other book said omegon senses the death of his brother by rogal dorn. So alpharius definitly dead. But guilliman should have kill a random guy
Flip those around, omegon took up the mantle as alpharius. To maintain the facade. So the “alpharius” that faced rogal form is more than likely omegon considering he was found with not only that armor but the pale spear by alpharius in the alpharius novel and even then, we can’t fully confirm that it was truly one of the primarchs
@@dimitriosmacris9688I mean speculate all you want, the authors of that part of the lore were trying to make it as clear as possible that either Alpharius or Omegon did 100% die, we're just not 100% sure which one. There was the unique warp shock of a primarch's death
@@DolphinSMG i think the current lore claims (Alpharius is a liar always) that Omegon pretending to be his brother was killed by Dorn on Pluto as the two decided to switch identities and it is highly likely only one was a traitor once they reccieved the prophecy from the cabal because what they said would happen is the opposite of what is currently happening despite Alpha legion being "chaos".
Based on context clues littered throughout the franchise, I believe the eleventh primarch was among the last and youngest the Emperor found. He was brash, eager and keen to prove himself. This cost him his life during the Rangdan Xenocides where he and most of his legion of astartes were irrevocably turned into slaves to the Slaugth like the Rangdan. This is the reason why the space marine bodycount was so high and the baseline human casualties and losses to enslavement were near-uncountable. The nightmare of the Rangdan Xenocides cannot be understated and this primarch's mistakes are the sole reason why. He was deemed a failure. Leman Russ is the one who killed him and many of his astartes, the survivors that were not enslaved by the Slaugth were offered amnesty, mindwiped and became Ultramarines. He was classified because he was proof that primarchs can die and are not infallible, invincible arbiters of justice. Tl;dr - Dead As for the second, I believe he came to a disagreement with the Emperor and after studying the Necron/C'tan artifact decided to learn from and adopt xeno technology of all kinds. For this, he was exiled and his legion hunted or ordered to turn themselves in to be re-educated and mindwiped to serve as Ultramarines. He was a cold, cunning and humourless primarch and likely served the Imperium as a sort of tactician, explaining his close relationship with Horus. He potentially had a geneseed with scary side effects like Sanguinius and his astartes struggled with and came to rely on xeno tech to survive. I believe this primarch is still alive, I believe Leman Russ could never find him possibly because of the 20 (21?) primarchs, he is the only one that is what psykers call a 'blank'. He was classified because of his dangerous and heretical ideals, but he is/was not corrupted by the warp as many believe. In the eyes of many he is worse - A xeno sympathizer. Could be hiding on a Tau or Necron planet. Tl;dr - Exiled, status unknown could potentially return as a renegade primarch with a renegade legion not affiliated with chaos but possibly a xeno faction
Between what Emp did to the Thunder Warriors then 2 of his brother primarchs Horus was kinda right. Edit: I know the TW geneseeds or whatever were deteriorating but maybe coulda put them in to stasis instead of you know…
Ok...I'm new here...but I thought we had 20 legions.....with 20 primarchs....and 2 the 2nd and 11th were incognito.. yet you got 20 here???? What am I missing???
I personally hope that Alpharius and Omegon are both still alive, I can't explain why but I can't help but feel like it defeats the point of there being two Alpha legion primarchs if only one is left. I guess both of them being dead also works to satisfy that in my head, but I'd prefer if both were still active (plus crazy theories of them still being loyal are quite intriguing as well)
@@morgymomo8535 I know that supposedly at least one is dead but they're the primarchs Alpha Legion, come on. If anyone could successfully fake their death, it would be Alpharius and Omegon
@benciudovchgottdank3460 I still like the theory that Cipher is Omegaon, seeing how cipher just easily outmaneuvered and Escape from custodes in their own Keep is just more evidence that concludes it even more. I just don't believe that corswain/Zarhariel could not have made such an Escape.
In one of the old novels Dorn's skeleton is encased in amber (or something, I dunno) and being held by the Imperial Fists. That was from like 30 years ago so I dunno if it is still considered canon.
I love how Corvus is essentially created his own version of Daemonhood driven by vengeance and now stalks traitors in the warp as a nightmare even the traitor primarchs fear. To be able to continue existing within such environments without succumbing to the taint of chaos shows how strong he is as an individual among his peers.
Lmao vulkan just chilling in a vault sealed up waiting for the green light to come from the warp they ready for him on stage now they know hes too powerful to bring back rn 🤣
So there are like 5 traitor Primarcs alive and active, while the imperium only have 3 or maybe 4 primarcs alive but only 2 active... How hasn't the imperium fallen yet with such handicap.
Because the traitor factions are tiny and incompetent in comparison. If the imperium was united and under the emperor's leadership the traitors would last about 20 minutes. The traitors are basically a guerrilla hiding in the forest, like colombia's FARC.
So back then it was Empire vs. Chaos (not including other factions) but then they were able to still withstand Chaos and half the forces lost to heresy? Empire must be crazy advantage back then
At the start of the heresy the imperium of man was on the brink of total galactic dominance. There was no faction that could defeat them, that's why Horace Hershey betrayed the Emperor: the minis must flow
Sanginius was not at 100% when he fought Horus not even close. Before the final assault he had just fought banished a named greater daemon of Khorn o'l KB. And had been up fighting non stop for weeks on end. But he accepted his fate like a Boss and Horus choked him to death with his Talon. A part of Dorn still exists too, the bones of one of his hands. And every serving chapter master has scrimshawed their name onto it.
So....your saying he would have won at 100%? Even though, Horus nearly beat the Big E? Afterwards, E is basically on life support the rest of his life. .....ok.
I feel like Fulgrim might return, or at least his clone sooner or later. Trazyn is know to do some f*ckery here and there, whos to say he might not let Clonegrim escape?
So, I have been reading a lot of lore and speculation on the two lost Primarchs. Some of them are really fun, so I had to write one of my own. Mantiken was to be the 11th primarch of the Emperor, and he was to be the strategist. A cunning intellect and an adaptable mind would be a boon for the future of the Imperium. Unfortunately, when the Warp pulled the primarch capsules and scattered them, Mantiken's was closest to the gate and took the brunt of the corrupting warp. Mantiken landed on a desolate world called Sthenos. A world consistently in conflict and limited on resources. He grew up learning that his body was his best weapon as stone and metal degraded and would eventually fail him. He became a war leader on Sthenos and lead his forces to many victories. In time he attacked an alien adversary he had never seen before. These were monsters with bio-organic weapons, many of which out competed the paltry weapons he had at his disposal. In victory he found an opportunity. The Warp had changed him, and his body was his best weapon. It was time to use them, he had an adaptable mind, and thanks to the Warp, an adaptable body. He began inducing mutations in his own body, often mimicking the xenos that nearly bested his forces. The Emperor was, less then pleased to see his prized strategist intentionally becoming a mutant, but he was the Emperor and Mantiken was a Primarch. The mutations were never labeled as such. They were 'additional biological enhancements' that Mantiken's body could handle. For a time, this was enough. Mantiken took charge of the 11th Astartes and lead them to many victories for the Emperor. Due to the instability of Mantiken's Gene-seed, the 11th Legion never had the numbers of many of the other legions. Behind closed doors though, Mantiken and the Emperor of Mankind argued a good deal, especially on the topic of humans and what constitutes as a mutant. This rift grew when it was brought to the Emperor's attention that members of Mantiken's Astartes were encouraged to develop and grow their own mutations as rank and badges of honor. They were starting to need the Adeptus Mechanicus less and less. In many people's eyes, they were becoming uncontrollable. A new world was discovered, but the Imperium decided that the inhabitants were mutants and not welcome amongst the Empire of Man. As a test of loyalty, and slight discipline, The Emperor sent Mantiken and the 11th to assist in the purging of the world to make it ready for true humans to colonize. After all, who would defy the Emperor? The 11th Astartes under command from their Primarch killed the Imperium forces there and protected the natives. This slight, would not go unanswered Mantiken believed that having a large portion of his Astartes there would deter reckless retaliation. He wanted to believe that he could convince the Emperor that it was wrong to purge them, that they were more useful to the Imperium alive then as target practice. However, the man who was sent to deal with Mantiken did not believe so. An Exterminatus can be called on a planet where the cost of claiming it is higher than the resources there, and battling an entire legion of Astartes? Well, they encouraged mutants, defied the Emperor and 'unjustly' killed many brave men of the Imperium. They were traitors. The planet was reduced to asteroids by intense bombardment. When this agent returned to tell The Emperor the wonderful news that the world was taken care of and the diabolical warp infused traitor was dealt with before he could corrupt any more.... he did not receive the reward he was expecting. The remaining 11th Legion Astartes were called to Holy Terra, where they had their minds wiped and discretely transferred to other Legions with their gene-seeds labeled as 'corrupted' so they would never be used again. To cover up that the Primarchs could be killed, the failings of the agent, and the treason of Mantiken, The Emperor declared all information on the 11th Legion to be redacted and erased from history. Few of the Primarchs remember their brother Mantiken. He was strong, he was able and despite having extremely different views then his brethren, was a Primarch and a good friend to many of his brothers, now lost and purged form history.
Hell I would argue that Amron is Dead two..... like he's equivalent to a souped-up zombie.. he really has no conscious adwareness... that might be his body but even his angry version of himself is not there...
one this i love about Alpharius / Omegon and the Alpha legion has a whole is trying to explain it to someone even if they know about the Alpha legion just leaves you both more confused about the Alpha legion
Conrad didn't mutate he just finally figured out what a primarch truly is He and the lion are the only 2 who can actually use their true primarch abilities Don't forget a primarch is a warp entity and he's become one with the darkness capable of blending with the shadows becoming the shadows I believe all the traitor primarch's are actually using their true warp entity forms which they would have achieved eventually if they had trained
How in the world are the space marines still fighting then considering they are heavily outnumbered and have little to no primarch backing them plus the emperor is in a stasis!
How can i be able to understand completely wh 40 k lore ? Also i want to know right now how is the most recent lore cuz i heard that emperor will ressurect or some like that 👀
As of now there are a few possibilities for the emperor, but he is far from resurrecting. An eldar once told robotow girlyman that he or the emperor could potentially become a god with enough faith from humans, psyker or not, some fans theorize he is already a sort of chaos god fighting in the warp. But overall, it’ll be a while before he comes back, I believe he will though, as was hinted when Big E’s thoughts(?) spilled out when girlyman went to the chamber of the golden throne, big e says, apotheosis, dead, alive and choose. apotheosis could mean Big E turning into a god
At some point, you know sanguinius is coming back mainly because the model would sell and sell and sell god. I haven't painted a model in twenty years. I would buy that one
Plot-twist: Horus, with his chaos gifts, pushes Sanguinius over as he finally succumbs to the Black Rage/Blood Thirst. Sanguinius attacks the Emperor as he is forced to kill Sanguinius.
Also a hypothesis: Omegon went on to lead the Grey Knights. I know, it's all shrouded in secrecy. I personally enjoy the hypothesis that one of the missing Primarchs went on to become Sigmar and the Fantasy setting is in fact somewhere in the galaxy.
