I rode a mare for a young friend who was having major attitude issues (the horse, not the rider). She'd pin her ears and swish her tail no matter what you asked her to do and when asked to canter, she'd buck. I've ridden some spicy horses in the past, but I decided there might be something more going on than moodiness when she cocked her head so I could see her eye and threatened to bite me from the saddle. Turned out, the girl's saddle wasn't a good fit for the mare. After a tack change and few visits from a chiropractor, her mood improved and she's more willing to do what you ask (most of the time). Lola looks like a challenge, but she'll come around with steady, consistent training. She's in good hands with you guys 🙃
She almost looks lame when watching her being lead. I'm by far no expert but that's the first thing that jumped out at me. She kind of bobs her head funny with her left rear leg. She is beautiful though. Good luck as always!
Looks athletic but walks a bit strange and looks like a pig 😂❤ NO HATE, just saying over exaggerated features which is part of the halterbred thing. Her attitude is interesting to me since...I'll most likely have to deal with it with my fillies. We never did get the age up on the screen but that's alright, I'm just curious
She needs sacrum work. Her left hind is off. I would start at the sacrum. Halter horses that are shown have a very unhorse like life. So they tend to get rebellious. Glad to see she's in good hands.
Great job, as usual! A little video suggestion. When you have something a little lengthy you want us to know, maybe try paragraph format and just place the whole thing off to the side somewhere for a moment. I like to read everything, but if I’m reading the scrolling text, I can’t pay attention to the horse. In paragraph form, I can pause, read the info, then go back to the video without losing anything. The zooming worked great! Thanks, Malinda! 😊
Thats a great idea! I have to constantly back up and start again cuz i cant wztch and read at same time. The breaks, with written info, *might* be a great option...like stop the video. And overtop of that screen, give us a minute to read, then restart. Obviously this only applies since you are editing anyway. Malinda, no idea if this would work.
She looks like she moves oddly. Like she is sore in her feet or her one of her shoulders hurt or something. Nothing looks like it has much range of motion. Everything is shortened up. Is that part of being humped up like wanting to maybe buck? She really wants to get her way too. LOL It would of been interesting to see her first ride. :) Thanks for sharing.
Her breeding as a halter horse is more for conformation and not locomotion. They aren’t bred to move well, they’re bred to look good in halter classes. Halter horses usually have short choppy strides as noted by her movement. She has to learn how to move and use her body and then her strides will lengthen .
Just wanted to say thank you so much for your authenticity! I love watching your videos because you are so informative and also one of the only people actually showing the reality of working horses. Your videos have helped me tremendously with my own horse. Keep up the great work and God Bless you!
anytime i test out a horse, i never use the stirrups which got a 'brave' comment from the young gal (barrel racer) that showed me the OTTB i bought. Brave or experience from years of riding green horses and never wanting to be trapped. if you can ride bareback, you know the saddle is just a tool to keep you with the horse vs being connected to the horse. thx for all the tips, appreciate the slow steady pace and letting the horse learn from kindness.
Most of my horses have been paints - actually a combo of performance/halter blends…..my current is of no great pedigree but the best horse ever = steady Eddie mare but getting on in years (almost 24 now)
My "halter bred* horse excels in almost anything I throw at him. We have multiple buckles in English, Western , ranch versatility etc . I really despise the stigma. Oh and he is a great cutter to!
either his saddle is off side or he has one stirrup shorter than the other. Sure looks like he could let them down a hole or so, seems like a lot of bend in his knee, it perches him and tips him forward a bit?? Just my thoughts. I found with bronc type horses I wanted a long leg and able to lean back keep my shoulders behind my hips.
Interesting that being led over the bridge is so very different to her mentally, versus walking over the bridge. I suppose if she's just walking she thinks it's her job to decide if it's safe. Beautiful horse, jumpy in a different way than Saber! She's a lot of horse.
She is a beautiful horse. Sassy! I've never seen a "halter bred" horse (never heard of them either). That trot is different. Her little kicks as well. ❤️🌵☀️⛈️🌈☮️🐕🐎
She looks lame on hind end. Short stride on LH. Not normal to have continous tail swishing moving in small circle. I owned OTTB mare bought 2 wks after last race. She had wobbler surgery and was rideable but still moved a bit wierd on hindend and didn't want to move forward. Once I did regular equine massage, chiropractic work on her she became a fantastic trail horse. PLUS the saddle had to prpoperly fit or she acted like this mare. 21yrs together. I became quite familiar with lamenesses. The bridge is interesting.....could be since she was a halter horse and lead everywhere she is secure with human at her side. She's new under saddle and probably lacks confidence w rider up top vs a human on the ground to show her where to go.
It is hard for me to not laugh when I see comments like this. I never said she was new under saddle, I said she had been ridden a good bit but none in the last year. When a horse is not ridden like that and it is sent off for someone else to restart it is usually because the horse did something before when it was ridden and the owner is scared to get in it themself. Typically attitude like this is why the owner quit riding them. She is mad, bad attitude, doesn't want to do what is asked of her, and her tail movement is not normal? Normal to what, other bucking horses with a bad attitude? This is not a pain issue.
As a trainer of fifty years I have great respect for your methods. However your lack of response to the issue of soreness or lameness that so many of us have commented on is concerning. I'm not even saying that this is the cause of all her resistance, but it would certainly contribute. I keep checking for a response from you saying she's been examined by a vet and has no issues. I haven't seen one yet and as a trainer I feel it imperative to rule out physical issues before instituting corrections. You are so respected that I assumed you would feel the same.
Hi Tim I enjoy your videos. Thank you for your reply. I didnt see first couple min of video, thanks for training clarification. Many followers have commented about soundness. Usually, you mention in your videos if horse was examined by a vet when so many have the same question. Of course she could just have a bad attitude and show some classic unsoundess movement from trying to evade work. Unfortunately, seems my 40 yrs experience spent riding/owning horses has been with so many mentally damaged or physically damaged horses not even discovered with PPE, especially my own for last 21 years. (TBs & Arabians)
@@gaylemanion6869I agree I have an onery uncooperative horse who acts like this because he’s mildly laminitic. A trainer tried to push him through his tude but knowing he could be sore I decided retirement was a better option. He was probably 50% mild pain 50% brat. But mild pain can make anyone crabby. Especially naturally lazy horses. Forward horses can be in chronic pain and move out like nothing is wrong with them.
You see a few minutes of a video and see a horse moving differently but that is all of the information you have and you want answers. You as a trainer you know that you spend hours with every horse that comes in for training. In that time you should know that there are many answers and much that the trainer knows about every horse that there is no possible way everything you know about a horse can make it to a video. What is the odd movement, why it is happening, what makes it better, what makes it worse, what is being done off camera about it, which came first movement or the work, what is the history from the owner. With the information you have from the video, "you feel it imperative to rule out physical issues". The truth is unless you are the one with hands on the horse there is no way you can make a truly informed decision about the welfare of any horse and as a trainer of 50 years you should know that. There is more medical information coming out about this horse and other horses but you will just have to wait until those videos come out.
I have a halter bred boy, he was DQ due to no clear appaloosa markings (POA) he is a grump and very lazy without conditioning and consistent work. I got him as a borderline foundered 4 yr old he had 30 days then sat for 8 months by himself in a 30x40 run. He had a wicked temper, was pushy, and a biter. I put him in with a BLM mustang mare, she helped me teach him boundaries and respect. I couldn't really put much work under saddle until October. It honestly took that long to rehab his feet. He is coming along well, he does get cinchy and will buck out of frustration when you correct a lead. He is turning out to be a good little horse and I'm taking him and my big gaited appaloosa to Alaska. Thank you for pointing out that there is a difference in saddle horses and those bred for halter.
I noticed while Robert was saddling her that as he stood by her shoulder she went to step on his foot. Of course he was not fooled and moved his foot oit of the way. I had a mare I was grooming but wasn't so lucky. Subtle ways a horse moves into your space.
Yes, halter bred gelding was performing as a handy athlete when I bought him, I could never get into left lead canter for more than a few strides Will take left lead icantering in the pasture freely and with a friend exercising him Was told it was a stifle issue Probably That is true and my cues are not good He’s a fine, calm trail horse and a gentleman
I did have a halter horse come to me for training. It had shown weanling, yearling and two year old halter and won at Congress. They told me it was started, I found out later that two different halter trainers had tried to start him and gave up and sent him home. A hunter rider then took him for a week and turned him down. the day I went to pick him up, not sure what had happened but he had taken out two fluorescent lights in the ceiling of the barn while they were wrapping him. He tried bucking and kicking in my trailer and I tapped my brakes, that seemed to stop that. When I got him home the first week was not good, he had no manners and was a bull. I turned him out 24/7 in a grass paddock and took him off grain, gave him carrots at feed time instead. After a week out day and night and off too much grain he was a different horse. No sue fighting the grain pail or pent up energy. Once I started to ride him, I did it in a hundred acre field and I never had an issue. Called the owner to come for a trail ride and they couldnt believe it. Then they told me the truth about him and how horrible he had been to handle as a halter horse. Your absolutely right about building confidence. A horse isnt going to learn it they are busy being scared. My mentor told me, 'you cant force learning, it happens when it happens, ask the question and reward the right answer and ignore the rest'
As far as i know I've never handled a halter bred horse. Maybe on a college riding team, since you ride the horse you draw, but they are ridden so much, those issues likely have been worked out of them. A couple of things: 1-At first I thought this was just a whole lot of "dont wanna." But then I saw the confidence she gained as soon as Tim approached her at the bridge. Interesting to see her shift into a different mindset. Even with Robert's expert handling, I wondered about that. Still..i realized its a combination of "dont wanna," and lack of confidence. Really good for me to see. No idea how to read that ahead of time. 2- that right stirrup would be important to me! Without it I would be on the ground squeaking "help me."😂 Robert's skill is freaking impressive. 3- Malinda, I thought the video was great! The lens worked well. Thank you to everyone!❤
My last horse was halter bred. She was always sweet to handle, but at first I had probs with her bucking. But once she got over that, (I did have a trainer help) she made a very good trail horse. Level headed and willing.
Thank you for your video! it gives us a look at what working with a horse that has a refusal attitude can be like. Every horse is unique and presents an opportunity to learn how to communicate and work through obstacles together, The goal here is to only have to ask once, maybe twice. I know Tim and Robert will make the difference with this mare! ⭐
A lot of folks commented on pain. Yes, I agree, check the horse and gear first. I have a mustang mare, she will just occasionally test me. Who is in charge? She will give me a small buck and I just ride through it. On the other hand I was asked to ride somebody else’s horse and I dismounted after the first few steps. She was just off. Vet came and she has back pain.
It’s nice to see that trainers have to put up with some sas too. I sometimes think the pros must have a way to set up the lesson just right so it never happens at all. So it’s nice to see. Thanks for sharing
It goes back to the idea of form to function. It's hard for them to do common maneuvers cause of how awkward they're built, so they balk at work. The more they're rode, the better they get though.
How many times are people going to argue about lameness, pain etc? I would bet the owners ruled that out before they sent the horse to Tim. I know I would, so as to spend my money on what the problem is.
There’s a big difference between a reluctance to go because of stubbornness/poor work ethic vs a horse who is genuinely scared. Several viewers suspected lameness/soreness. But that doesn’t explain why she won’t go w/rider vs being led. Tim said work ethic would improve with mileage….what if it doesn’t????? I hate blaming problems on it being a mare. I have owned great mares. Unfortunately my current is not. She is sour, and if it was just a matter of mare issues, then I would expect her attitude to fluctuate with hormones. Hers is bad ALL the time!
It can be both. Unless a horse has a lot of experience (which this one does not) bridges are very scary, that's normal. Horses hate the echo and any movement underfoot.
Doing a good job with her... especially with the bridge and muddy area...that mare will be different in a week ..if you have her 30 days..you should put a side by side comparison in at the end of 30 days or how ever long you have her...nice job from both of you!
Rode a conclusive son (Impressive grandson). Great mover. Good looking mare, I'd take her grouchy or not. Been through worse. That cow kick was interesting
Have her ovaries been checked? She makes me think of a mare I knew, who just had very painful inner lady organs and who had a hard time to move without pain and discomfort...
Yes, whenever I ride a green or a grumpy horse I usually don't put my boot in the right stirrup when I mount. That way, if there's a "misunderstanding" I can bail out much more quickly. Self preservation!
Must be a "mare with an "L" name" thing. My mare Luna is also a "Thrower of Fits" and "Princess of Tantrums". lol Like Lola, she just needs more miles. Things will sort out. :)
I think that year in pasture has returned her to being her own alpha. She now needs to accept the human as the alpha. I agree that more miles will get her to be more accepting of her rider's direction. Robert is doing a good job picking his battles.
I have owned 4 mares. Pain on the ass everyone, some worse than others. I decided I wanted the same horse every day so I could truly enjoy riding everywhere. Show ring, trail rides into wilderness or just down my road so I got a gelding. I owned 2 of the best anyone could hope for in a lifetime.
Really? I have limited experience with horses in general and only have owned the two horses I have now, both female...every few weeks I do get overwhelmed so I watch videos like these and remind myself that a lot of the problems are lack of discipline on my part which transfers to them...anyway, just sharing ❤
@@honesttraitorbear3527 if you want to be safe and enjoy riding just get a well trained gelding. With the best mare it will be a toss up as to what they will be like every day. Sometimes they will be great but their hormones are the primary problem and also effect even the best trained mare.
@@sundanceks5074 my best horses have been mares. I dont think hormones have much to do with it, but no, they dont follow blindly and they do have to trust you. Just my one life experience though.
@@thedirtprincess3293 follow blindly??? One day they are a joy to ride the next time you ride they are a pain. Every Christmas my friends and I would go on a group ride. We got 1/2 mile down road and my mare had everyone's horses bucking or trying to bolt. I had to take her home and let them enjoy the day. We were just walking down the road when she started acting like a bitch. I wasn't trying to subdued her. Mares cycle just like women. It was definitely hormonal with her. My other mare was just a hotter horse but would never have acted like that.
Beautiful mare. Halter horses don’t tend to make as good of riding horses (imho). Trot is a good example. Also, often confirmation isn’t as good from a halter horse to a riding horse.
I worked for a halter trainer years ago. I’m not a fan of the halter bred horses. The ones I worked with all were short strided , small feet and a little “off”. I like quarter horses just not the halter bred ones.
Why are US halter breds so notoriously difficult? In the UK and Ireland, (show quality) young horses are shown in hand before they go onto ridden careers. And those successful in hand, often are just as successful under saddle. Is it that the gene pool is small for whats in fashion and that gene pool is dominated by breeding which has a less-than-willing streak?
Yes, I was wondering this, too. Apparently these quarter horses are often bred to have abnormally tiny feet in order to 'look pretty', and have a career just being shown in-hand. That can't be a proper life for a horse long-term and to me, it can't auger well for soundness, of either mind or body, in maturity ...
Has noting to do with the feet. These horses usually stay physically sound but the percentage of them that have a trainable mind to be ridden is restively small and usually not fun to ride.
@@timandersonhorsetraining If so few of them have a cooperative mindset, even for just some easy hacking/trail riding, what happens to those - probably the majority - that only have mediocre success in the in-hand showring? From what you say, it sounds as most wouldn't be suitable for a ridden 'career' at any level, so do they just keep being hauled around the in-hand show circuit for 20 years? Beautiful animals but ....
My halter bred boy excels in English, Western,obstacles,trails and even cutting. We were number 1 in Colorado last year in COvrha and number 2 nationally ..I love proving the stigma wrong! Several buckles to prove it❤ ...
I was told never let a horse turn round away from the problem in the first place as they think that's the thing to do. Having stood out for hours until the horse gives in I'm not sure if that is convenient but it does work eventually.
At my "advanced" age, I'm pleased to be still learning new things. Lots to learn at Tim's barn! So, a halter-bred horse, that's what it means! Yes I think this mare is rather snarky! But she sort of minces along walking and I see definite stiffness in her left hind hip and leg. I'm sure Tim will get her right and it will be Very interesting to watch her progress, as with beautiful Sabre.
I did notice that left hip. Obviously Tim thinks it isnt pain cuz he would have addressed that, but i wondered about it too. She's quite the ballet dancer in pointe shoes with her tiny steps.
My eye was drawn to her off side shoulder / step with a little brace thru her back under the saddle .. ?? Enough discomfort to niggle and build a no in a really nice horse .
Tail never went quiet. He never set her stance for getting on. She didn't wait after getting on and he never backed her up for unrequested forward motion. She was pushing on him and moving his feet while he was leading and saddling her. She looks like she needs some better groundwork and perhaps leading to following exercises. Several people in the comments mention the left hind.
I don't get the idea of breeding a horse just to be pretty. I don't know how it is now, but the conformation hunter classes took into account the type of bone structure for soundness, jumping ability and stamina - not just looking pretty. Anyway, Miss Lola is a pretty horse, especially the front part. Even though she's big, do you think she could benefit from being ponyed by Bob (after she gets to know him and wouldn't be inclined to kick)? She doesn't seem to have much forward. Maybe she's not used to the feeling. Regarding the camera work. It's great. Nice zooming. I could see everything. You might want to get a lightweight monopod to keep the video steady.
I don't get it either! Breeding solely for looks and not for mental and physical functionality is what has got the pedigree dog world in the painful, medically and surgically corrected and psychiatrically rehabilitated mess that is common to too many breeds. It's not a road the horse world should be going down.
If you tighten up your cinch to much at first, they tense up. If you do it slow, the horse relaxes to the cinch. I tighten my up 3 or 4 times...sometimes5
I have experience with two ‘halter bred’ quarter horses. Both horses ‘middle aged’ - one was 9 the other 10. My mare bucked because we found out she had navicular issues. Watch how this horse in the video ‘tip toes’ (common in halter bred horses because their hooves are too small to support their big, muscular bodies). If they are experiencing pain - they are likely to BUCK. My gelding bucked because of pedal osteitis - another hoof related problem common to QH’s that are halter bred. This is so sad because she looks so much like my mare and my gelding. What looks like bad ‘behavior’ is actually pain related. Do people like walking around carrying extra weight when their feet hurt? Answer : no. I’ll bet if this horses’s hooves were thoroughly radiographed - you’d find out the real reason she bucks - it’s NOT because she’s a mare!
You're not going to get Tim to acknowledge there's a physical issue with this horse because it detracts from the narrative. I am not saying Tim isn't a good horseman (notice, I didn't call him a trainer - he is certainly a step up and does things with thoughtfulness and kindness) but it's unfortunate that he discounts viewer's experiences or their observations of signs of lameness by horses in his videos. Of course - none of the viewers here are "experienced" enough to be able to recognize lameness or irregularities in gait being of the despised "horse owner" category. Tim has client's horses for a very short amount of time making it possible for him claim experience with thousands of horses. But honestly - who knows a particular horse better? Someone who has them for a few weeks to a few months or the owner who cares for the same horse, day in and day out for years? Or how about the many horse owners who had the unfortunate luck to buy horses with Halter bred lines (or other stock breeds predisposed to the same) that are diagnosed with Navicular syndrome - resulting from incorrect conformation that lead to mechanical stress, soft tissue damage, bone growth issues and adjacent compensatory limb lameness. These horses become unrideable, sometimes before they are even 10 and the owners have had their eyes opened and now recognize the tell tale signs of lameness. Horse owners of such horses have paid Vets & Farriers out the wahzoo for an education on lameness and put in the time & labor on their horse, hopeful for rehabilitation that would at min make them sound enough to trail ride. It would have been better if Tim just ignores comments on lameness than to make the conscious decision to poo poo a viewer. If you don't like, or can't handle the comments... shut the comment section off. I have a APHA mare diagnosed with Navicular syndrome at 6, from Halter lines (HOF RH Mr Imprint). It's been a depressing experience so I, at least am empathetic to skidaddle32's experience. The Vet who handled my mare's case specializes in equine sports medicine, diagnostic imaging, lameness, and surgery and is published & cited. Very respected in this part of the country. She too has seen thousands of horses - specifically for lameness, and her experience is that she diagnoses Stock Horse Breeds more than any other. The second vet who has been doing the annual follow ups interned with this vet before starting their own successful practice - he was a farrier prior to becoming a vet (who specializes in equine lameness) has also seen thousands of horses. Same experience - Stock horse breeds make up the largest % of Navicular syndrome diagnosis and conformation related lameness issues. But hey - wtfv do vets who specialize in this field really know? Take a stroll with Dr. Google. Puhlenty of studies that say AQHA is the predominant breed to have Navicular syndrome issues
I had a grand son to Impressive, when I cantered him , he seemed to run crooked, like a car that had been in a wreck , and drove at an angle. Hard to explain!he ended up HYPP, if I remember right.
Would love to see more with this mare. I’m working a similar mare with attitude. Her Training is too notch, but her attitude sucks. Very similar to what this mare is doing with saying NO when asked
What is a halter bred horse exactly? I’ve been in the industry for a long time and don’t think I’ve heard “halter bred”…..thanks anyone who can reply! 😊
A lot of the horses in your video seem to have some decent size. I have been into Warmbloods / dressage horses for the past long time and as I retire I wanted to get back into western horses and do more trail riding and a bit of reining like I did in the beginning. But I cannot find any quarter horses with any size. Would like 16hh but they are sure scarce.
The watching horses are so calm during this process. It's as if they are gently encouraging her across the bridge. Her arms and quarters look quite muscular, even if her conditioning is poor. What is her breed? She looks part Arabian, a really beautiful animal.
She's beautiful! What kind of saddle is Robert using? I'm looking for a new saddle (Trail Riding and some easy arena work) and my horse is a bit of a bucker sometimes, do you have any advice?
What kind of saddle has a great deal of variables. Fit is going to be the most important. First for the horse and then for you. Next is quality leather. A well built saddle will outlive you if taken care of. I am not impressed with many of the new saddles. The leather is so thin and brittle it feels like a paper leather mix. Try on a few. Even a good used one. The saddle should be able to sit on the horse without a pad and not cinched and have no “tight” spots. Get a ride in with that saddle enough to get some seat going. Pull the saddle. See if you have any dry spots under it. If so, bad fit. The pressure is cutting off circulation. An older Crates saddle is a great place to start. We have had good luck with a tough fitting horse with Big Horn as well. If you have a good saddle shop in your area see if they will help you fit it up. Often they will have used/consignment saddles that are more economical and are well built. Good luck in your search.
She looks like she is limping with the front right leg and her left hind leg. She's complaining because she could be in pain. Definitely should not be riding her right now till it gets figured out. She's trying to give a sign, but you have to learn to listen.
