Fun fact about the Laser Slicer - the spinning you see it doing during the charged hit's lunge actually briefly acts as a shield, reducing incoming damage that crosses it's hitbox by about 40%.
Yep, actually it turns out the Slicer, Plasma Thrower(I'm just gonna call it The Hammer) & the Chainsaw can block some damage while charging. Crazy attention to detail. NEVER CHANGE, FROMSOFT.
I've seen that in other people's streams and vods, but I have never been able to land a hit in training mode, even with static enemies. Is it a bug? Why does the plasma whip visually connect with the enemy, but still not actually touch them? How can you use it as an opener when it seems like the attack has no hitbox at all?
I am a laser dagger enjoyer. The charged attack is very good for catching people and the weapon cooldown is extremely quick. Making it possible to use it as an opener and a finisher.
No idea how well it works in PVP (still working through NG+ and got detoured doing an obnoxiously complex decal design for my latest build) but I absolutely adore the laser dagger in PvE. The low weight and energy footprint means you can fit it into basically anything, and it does shockingly good damage for how quick the cooldown is, especially as an overload punish. The first hit comes out so fast too. Very easy to get hits with. I’ve found myself throwing it into builds a LOT where I have energy/weight really tightly optimized but still want a melee weapon.
Me too. the Laser Dagger is my favorite weapon in the game. Can actually be mained due to it's low cooldown, and the choice of attacks (1,2 3 hits or charged), plus the speed and melee cancels make it the most versatile weapon, if used correctly. Also, the low weight and energy requirement means it can fit almost any build, wortking as a great backup weapon for builds that are carying heavy guns.
I’ve grown surprisingly fond of the laser dagger and the stun baton. However, I use melee weapons very differently than most. Instead of openers or finishers, I use melee weapons to compensate for low ammo weapons. I don’t need to use a weapon with only 20 rounds to kill a light MT, so instead I use a melee weapon. Both the stun baton and the laser dagger have very small EN and weight footprints, so they can be a great way to clean up adds without wasting precious ammo.
I just on my 4th playthrough discovered that reverse joint legs have different kick animation and its so fricking cool, its the coolest thing ever imo, kicking little MT's and watching them fly to the orbit is incredibly fun 😁
Moonlight being ranged is how you want to use it thanks to the impact, its great to stagger and 2 hits means even if they dodge you can likely still hit them.
@@glacierfox5237 I use it as part of the dance to stagger them then hit with something big. While it does stop you in your tracks, you can time it during their dash you will hit them. Almost never charge attack tho.
If the enemy is ACS Overloaded, why in the world would I downgrade to a melee that forces me to stand completely still and punish far less than others. And outside of ACS Overload, any decent player can dodge it.
Excellent tier list. I really appreciate the time you took to lay out your arguments and show us gameplay to back it up. Learning the manual aim lets you surprise people with the Oscillator is surprising and funny news.
Plasma thrower is awesome in pvp, you can't convince me otherwise. It's fast, and it's the only melee "finisher" that can consistently escape assault armor. Single hits to secure stagger are surprisingly easy to pull off as well. Never use the charge attack and you're set.
You are forced to stand still, it's range sucks, and it's damage is not as good as other finisher weapons. And it's charge attack is useless despite the damage reduction on hold.
@@CodenameMoodIf you build around it the plasma thrower is insane. I think you’re writing it off too quickly because of your own avoidance of quad/tank builds. My current build has quad legs, with basho arms and plasma thrower and its incredible
Its very very cool how different our tier lists were. Excited to play you again sometime soon gamer. Gonna have to bust out my plasma thrower against your stun baton since we ranked those in the exact opposite positions lmao
The laser lance is my favorite. Its just Sooo satisfying to land a charged hit, plus you can use it to super smash bros yourself back onto the arena if you fall off with no energy. And plasma thrower is nice with tanks as you dont stop moving when attacking
Dual Moonlights and a Nebula have been my go-to in pvp. Moonlights double slash is just long enough to charge Nebula. Bait them with the double slash while charging Nebula, then left off the trigger to plasma storm them, swap to the other Moonlight and double slash again. Timed right the first blade will be cooled down and can be brought back out to further extend the combo.
I gotta say, I didnt know about that Oscillator trick, im gonna have to start using that. Tbh though, I feel like you treated Moonlight a bit too harshly. Its damage and ACS might not be the highest, but its uncharged attacks are quick and if youre close theyre hard to dodge. Even you yourself got hit by several in the gameplay featured. Ive been using it on my melee/missile boat build (SOUP and APERTIF missile launchers on the right side, with Red Moonlight and the Coral Oscillator on the left), and it can apply great pressure due to how quick its cool down is. I understand your reasoning, I simply think its more of a B class of weapon. Great Video nonetheless, im definetely gonna tell some mates of mine about the weapon combos you showed.
Redshade being forgotten: In all seriousness don’t take inspiration from tier lists and all parts are quite good (excluding the Joso generator) all parts have purpose and are meant for other builds
Also I should add that because all parts suit different playstyles I see way too many AC6 tier lists contradicting each other. Decide what’s best for you yourself and don’t be sheep
@@arcturus960 Objectively false. This is a PVP tier list, and some weapons aren't cut out for PVP. Moonlight can get some use out of its normal ranged attacks, but its charged melee seems a little lacking for it to be higher tier. You can go back in time and try out using musket rifles, and bayonets.See how that build works out for you. I know listening to people is hard for an ego like yours, but not all tools are going to be as impactful as others.
@@arcturus960 I also disagree about his ranking on Moonlight, but all parts do not have a purpose. There are objectively bad parts & weapons. The only reason you'd want to run them is to "be different" or meme builds. In a stat based game there have to be bad parts.
Love to see the baton get the credit it deserves, been using a build similar to Silver Lining. Zim and punch swapping can nearly perma stagger with the baton's explosion setup. Huge surprise to see you rank the chainsaw so high, the wonky hits have me weary. The manual tech with coral blade is so badass, seriously impressive.
An option you should seriously consider is barehanded melee as it does pretty decent ACS. But more importantly it has an extremely long stagger in ACS so you can effectively ACS break someone with a fully charged chainsaw, extend the stun with 3 punches, then chainsaw them again for the kill.
I've heard of it. But last time I fought a punch user, I just triangle dashed around them in a loop, their punch could never hit me and I'd melee them myself, seemed the animation lock for it is brutal. So I didn't consider it as it technically isn't a "weapon" either.
also a tip for any one looking to use the chainsaw in pvp, go for the charge attacks they are gonna award you with so many one shots it'll make you feel like a monster. just begin the charge before they break acs and try to be as level with them as possible, let it rip and enjoy the damage !
Very well made and informative. As PVE only I learned several details of these weapons. I question the Coral oscillator charge attack in "intended" use as there seems to be a bite out of the wrong side of the pizza cone exactly on the target making it occasionally miss what is right in front of it.
hahaha! unescapable cutscene! brilliant description of the slicer, my melee weapon of choice for single player, hard to make work in pvp for sure. Love your vids man, keep it up!
Maybe I'm wrong and this only works against bots in the campaign, but I think you've misplaced the laser lance. It has deceptively high tracking on its charged attack, and more importantly any hit from its charged attack staggers the enemy, confirming the rest of the attacks. This very frequently overloads enemy ACS, making it a deceptively effective opener. It doesn't have the same mind games as others, but for lack of a better term it just works.
The every hit into confirm isn't particularly true. Enemies can get clipped by one hit, but you will zoom past them if they had any kind of momentum beforehand. It's bad as an opener because any decent player can react to it from default.
Plasma thrower is like a guy who sucks at his job, but is excellent at somebody else's. On quads and tanks it rules as you stated, but I even get some use of it as a reverse joint, that sheer amount of stagger from good range is excellent as an opener, being stuck is a bit rough, but I say the payoff's worth it.
"Next up is the moonlight" *shows Redshift* I know that they play the same but given that they are different weapons, it means that you can actually run "dual moonlight" in order to mitigate the cooldown on the basic attack.
Moonlight/Redshift are great against players who are unaware in 3v3, but in 1v1, it's too slow and easy to react to against light stun gun/baton builds.
The stun baton felt really difficult to use in PvP from the little I did, but if it's incredible PvE performance is anything to go by, I'm not surprised it can be insane in PvP too. ACS into heavy into another ACS into full light combo with the weapon's very high Direct Hit boost was a nuclear combo.
That was a wonderful insight. Appreciate the video. My take about the laser blade, I honestly think it can also be a decent opener since its light attack shoots you quickly farther ahead. I do enjoy melee weapons in this game and I thank you for the great content!
I have had amazing success with the plasma thrower on my biped builds. Great for vibe checking incoming melee or cqb shotgun rushers. Love it as both an opener and finisher
plasma thrower is stupid good on quads especially with the extremely silly quad kick. explosive thrower is also technically a melee weapon and is like plasma whip where it can move on a quad/tank. it trades 2 hits for having a massive hitbox so it's probably worth the trade. But you could also just use both and alternate between CD. moonlight has a pretty solid range of 280 which can outrange quite a lot of stuff. Not a lot can deal the stagger and damage the moonlight can at 280 range, and with 2 large hitboxes, other than explosives. But its stuck in place so extremely vulnerable to explosives.
i'm not one for pvp but i loved the stun baton in the first playthrough of the solo campaign. Heard everyone calling it bad and i honestly didn't get it, it seemed good to me. Didn't even know about the charge attack setting up for a second ACS strain, i'll have to try it out myself lol. good video!
In PVE I often use the Laser lance as opener and Pile bunker finisher, finishing most of the arena fights in 20 seconds and this combination even made short work of Ibis.
I personally like to think of the moonlight as a whiff punish, rather than Finisher/Opener. If the opponent gets over zealous and commits to a melee or other attack that pauses them, and you manage to dodge but you're too far away to close the gap fast enough to punish, the moonlight is a very forgiving counter, especially with its huge AOE. I understand that this list is built for higher skill, quick, fight ending capability, but for us mid-tier players the moonlight can do solid work, and I really think that a high skill, patient player could get a lot of mileage out of it. Also something you didn't mention but did use in the clip is that the charged attack ignores cover. Was spectating a lobby where a player secured a win with it when his opponent tried to kite behind buildings. Niche for sure, but worth mentioning.
Moonlight slashes have the unique property of phasing through the pulse shield launcher shields. So you can launch a shield and camp behind it, letting it protect you during the vulnerable windup and control the opponent's position relative to it. With this combo you can spam moonlight slashes relatively easily and use it as a powerful projectile. I really recommend trying it out!
Okay but, what if I just.. Ignore all of it and melee cancel to him with my pulse blade and then pile bunker him? Because he is stuck in Moonlight animation?
@@CodenameMoodyou forget the giant healthpool on quads and wheelchair legs. And the opponent can dodge or AA/PA if you charge into the attack its litteraky 30% chance you come out on top. Also i dont think he reffers to matching against a melee build. I think he ment that you should give it a try, moonlight is better than you are giving it credits for. Using it in close quarter is comparable to a sniper build rocking the 100% close range chip trying to be under 100meters to the opponent. Its a stupid way of judging it. I have almost only played light weight builds, and some builds youst hard counters melee builds. Then you need to dodge like 90% of the attacks or you get one shooted. Where you have to stagger them two times to win thanks to their giant health pool. Personaly i hate Zimmermans, but i dont tell people they are turds for using it and that it suck. If i win i win if they win they win dosent matter aslong as they play good so the match is intresting. Id rather have fun while playing than cheesing my way through pvp. But hey thats me you do you, the video was top notch tho even tho i dont think its fair.
@@Gumpinn The zimmerman is OBJECTIVELY busted and needs nerfs. I run into Moonlight players every day, they are NOT a problem to dodge or to deal with, it's just not as threatening as other melee weapons.
@@CodenameMood Welp you got me there 😝 But as with all fromsoft games, its "getting good" that is the meta, dosent matter which weapons you have as long as they are descent you can beat any weapons.
Moonlight is great low effort low skill ceiling close range accompaniment but I can't call it a melee weapon tbh. It's great for a quick burst of acs damage for punishing
@@nxvh9062 yeah a shotgun with no ammo is pretty accurate. i found that most of the time, it's better to use the Moonlight "defensively" as a pressure tool or to punish people who are too eager to dash in.
I feel like at that point you should just run anything else as a finisher weapon. Again, it's comparitive to other melee weapons, it's too niche to be good.
@@MooseamationIt aint worse than moonlight blade right? I love the plasma Yo-yo had very good matches with it. And if the enemy is 50meters close you are like 90% sure to hit them. For me it feels like it counters melee builds.
It is le bonk. Main thing that bothers me is how many people combine Redshift and Moonlight. By Mood's own logic, Moonlight is an opener and Redshift is a punisher, with Moonlight's major advantage being the charge is able to stab through terrain.@@Gumpinn
Something I want to say that I feel goes undervalued is the flexibility of certain weapons as both openers and finishers, particularly the pile bunker. I feel the dagger and pulse blade are more obvious in their flexibility since their light attacks will stagger during ACS overload, but the pile bunker light attack I think is solid as an opener option. It falls short in terms of raw damage, but the cancel window before and after the hit almost rival the dagger imo, and the impact damage is insane for how easy the move is to land compared to some other melees. Obviously it shines a lot more if you can land the heavy attack during a punish since it will wipe 90% of an enemy's HP, but if they only have like 50%, it's worth clocking them in the face with a punch to get them into overload far sooner and using the light attack combo of a previously mentioned weapon to finish the job.
Personally, I enjoy using the laser lance. You can charge your other weapons during the lunge, so if you can follow up with an even more damaging attack.
Idk I'd give moonlight at least B or A. You just gotta use it properly. It's not a finisher it's a tool to keep your distance. It's still a meele tool but a projectile. The thing is, you gotta treat it as such.
Finally someone who recognizes the pulse blade as the best. Charged attack for staggers, double hit against staggered. Only issue is that the first attack pushes enemies sometimes away so the second slash misses. Btw charging the chainsaw counts as a shield.
Regarding the laser dagger and laser blade: Each makes an excellent setup for an assault armour punish, as the dagger combo and sword charge leave you near to your opponent. With good timing, you can break ACS, deliver the attack, and still have time left to connect with assault armour. I particularly like this with the laser dagger due to its quick cooldown and interactivity with boost kick, enabling a lot of melee pressure without spending two weapon slots on melee weapons. This approach is an alternative to pile bunker as a finisher but much more flexible. It does prevent you from using pulse armour, but gaining a weapon slot (essentially) is a tradeoff worthy of consideration imo.
I don’t know how often laser drones are spammed but I’ll run em both on my shoulders with a high stagger RH wep (Chang chens, ducket, laser shotty.) Usually off-hand the lance but dagger works too. A fully charged drone attack on a stunned enemy is actually stupid, and locks em down enough to get caught by lance charges. Fun stuff.
Zim with the PB and default laser on that high mobility build are absolutely god-tier when used by a skilled pilot. I've been struggling to get the timing right, but when I do it's so satisfying :D Thank you for the awesome video! Your time and effort is greatly appreciated!
moonlight and redshift charge attack can go through obstacle, no other projectile can. You can hide behind obstacle, use scan to lock down and charge attack to hit enemies while behind cover. Great for map with lots of obstacle
I love to do this ❤ If you wanna get good at the game you have to learn how to use everything at you disposal to your advantage. So many ppl is youst ignoring 40% of the game. Cosplaying rabbits jumping and mindlessly spamming all their attacks. So much hidden features and the freedom to play how you want. I tryed to do a missile build a few days ago where i shoot the missiles then escape for them to recharge then do the same again. As soon as i went back to old habbits not doing the escape oart i started loosing. Then when i played my hide and seek game that was 50% the point of the build i started winning. (i like to fly and turn through crannies and buildings "dopamine" delux)
I know you've probably heard this a million times already but I think that plasma thrower on bipeds is usable - the tracking on the first hit is just so good that I don't think I've ever had someone dodge it. It's basically a button to instantly build someone's stagger bar if they come within range. If you use it just after a quick boost (sort of the opposite of melee cancelling) then you retain a bit of motion during the swing. I'll admit that it's too easily punishable though and the second hit is rarely worth using unless the enemy is ACS overloaded and you're in pretty close range. landing both hits on ACS overload does a decent amount of damage, extends the stun (making it safe on ACS similar to the laser slicer) and isn't as strict on range as the pilebunker. It's a strange mix of opener and finisher to me. I have been struggling to fight enemies with other "true" melee weapons as I can't get the hang of melee cancelling and dodging.
@@CodenameMoodLove you ❤ but when you use all of the above weapons on what are essentially two very similar builds you can't claim niche use. Your playstyle is niche, and the plasma thrower simply doesn't fit your personal requirements. That doesn't make it bad or niche, it just makes it a good choice for quads and tanks. That said, I don't think the basic or heavy should stop movement, and the heavy's hitbox or method of delivery need to be changed drastically.
Very impressive tier list. I love the format, as well as the information presented and the accompanying footage. I would go as far as to say this is a good standard to set for how tier lists of this nature should be made. I'll be looking at this information and incorporating it into my play as well.
Plasma Thrower is just made for quads. I run a Long Range quad build and use the Plasma Thrower as an I win button for people that try to get in my face and back off. works great.
Dagger+fist = combo master tier.:P Once you get the stun, you can go back and forth between dagger and fist a few times. You can do 2xdagger then a punch, then 3xdagger chain, or heavy attack. Whatever you feel like doing. Super fun. Must be quite annoying to be on the recieving end tho. It kills every time unless they manage to use armor or I fail the timing. If you get the stagger with the heavy dagger attack, you got enough time to do a fist, 1(-2?)xdagger, fist, 3xdagger/heavy Combined with a shotgun and a pulseblade as secondary weapons, it's a pretty fun combo. I do wonder tho if the stun baton can do something similar since it got a fairly short cooldown as well. Maybe 2xbaton, 2xfist, baton.
Stun baton is super slept on, its just so versitile. For starters it can be used as a budget laser slicer, the it can stunlock the opponent with AoE, and it has amazing dash canceling. Its direct hit adjustment is nothing to scoff at either, being the second highest of every melee weapon. And when your apponet pulse armors, all you need to do is an assault armor counter and you shove them right bac into a stunlock due to the batons rediclous cooling. And if that doesnt work, again its a versatile weapon, you have 2 types of stagger punnish for the cost of one. Also, I didnt even know pulse blade could be charged, i mea surei giessit makes sence every other melee weapon can, but i genuinly thought it was identical to the forst slash durring testing
3:49 I wasnt questioning the zimmerman specifically, I was questioning why you talked about some pistols and an orbit gun build and suddenly zimmerman footage. positive critique, video flow could be improved by talking about your new orbit pistol built right before the section that would use it instead of viewer whiplash explained in real time by adorable anger kitten.
That intermission is there as a little joke anyways. I mention the new build as a good basis more so than specifically a build itself, as it exists to make melee weapons the main attraction.
watching you play this game makes it look incredibly fun, i'm not sure if i want to buy it for the pvp but i'm considering it, i think the stun baton looks the best so far leaving the enemies with 70% of their stagger bar after an overload looks nuts
Came here to say it ssweel, the story is amazing. Took me around 28/30h to complete full story not rushing it nor checking any guides. After that there is the opption to S rank everything. I bet i could replay all missions and enjoy them. I accidently missed a thing on the 4th playthrough so had to finish it so i could get the mission i was missing. Enjoyed every mission playthrough 4 even tho i thought i finaly could start pvp and was abit bummed about it, wanted to unlock all weapons before i did pvp. (there is 3 playthrougs that are uniqe and special with the choices you can make) If you youst play not checking to many guides playthrough 1-3 you will have a 4th maybe a 5th playthrough to look forward to as a single player!
The plasma thrower is easily the best melee in the game because of how godfuck fast it fires off while having range, doubling as a shield on charge, and pretty great tracking, what are you smoking.
@@CodenameMoodConsidering you apparently couldn't figure out the tracking on the Laser Lance, one of the most handholding weapons in the game, expecting you to know how the Plasma thrower works was a pretty big ask I guess.
@@akumaouja4062 Hey, you should add me on Discord so we can fight! Add codenamemood and we'll get a lobby going, play Plasma Thrower and Laser Lance. If you win, you're correct! If you lose, I'm making a video out of you! Wanna go?
@@CodenameMood On one hand it's deeply appealing to settle it out honestly and I respect the offer, on the other hand though stripping away even the thinnest veneer of internet anonymity for a random challenge in the youtube comments is like step 1 of every single "how to have your digital life implode" story literally ever.
Buddy, the plasma thrower is an AC destroyter, I was struggling to beat Raven, tried the thrower, frist tried his ass and never looked back. The final boss? exactly the same only this time since I already had the thrower in hand I first tried him. We can all agree the charged attack is ass, you don't need it tho. Against big bosses is not great, but facing an AC or humanoid? top tier, it catches them everytime and does more than decent damage. I had the MIND-BETA reverse Joints and a light/mid weight build btw.
I didn't think I was a melee addict until I realised for the final boss in ng++ I just wouldn't swap to a better double shotgun double stun needle build. I had to get that sword vs sword for 3rd phase.
As much as i love the Chainsaw, i have a hard time putting it in S tier. Hitbox is too inconsistent and people often fall out of it / just dont get hit outright. Easily one of the worst weapons to deal w airborne targets too
Regular chainsaw user here. The weird hitbox is mainly due to the chainsaw having the melee trust property for all of it's attack. Your thrusters will actually affect your lunge with the charged attack. Staggering your enemy in the air feels bad but it's still possible with quick piloting to get the hit down. The best part of chainsaw however is how it acts as a shield while charging, giving you some protection a shield would have given
watching melee tier lists is always funny because you can spot the quad/tank leg enjoyers vs the people who dont like them purely off of where the plasma thrower ends up
Nah man, the Moonlights deserve better than D tier. Though they may not punish as well as the Pulse Blade, Laser Slicer and Ibis Blade, the Moonlights offer a tremendous amount of versatility with their damn good 280m range and decent wave speed. You can practically weave Moonlight attacks into almost anything you do.
would like to note that the damage multiplier of staggered enemies on the pulse blade also make it one of the games best finishers. the damage output become some of the best in the game when combined with the basho arms and the melee boosters. absolutely insane burst damage potential. like 3/4 of the cleaners hp in on stagger type damage.
After getting more insight into how to use the dagger as an opener, it gave me the idea to run it alongside the Slicer for a Steel (Haze) Requiem build. Of course, I will steal the Zimmerman as the primary weapon from this video.
so you’re saying i can use both my beloved laser dagger and laser slicer without feeling like i’m wasting a slot by having to finishers? best news i’ve heard all month
I think it's hilarious that I just watched another video where a guy put Stun Baton in F tier saying he hates it and that it's worthless and is a waste. Personally I love it.
