I'm an Atheist Jew from Israel. For me, jewdeism is a culture that is based on the common history of the Jews in Israel. When I go for a walk anywhere in Israel, I see the history that connects me, an Ashkenazi Jew to my sister in law, an Ethiopian Jew, to my neighbor, an Indian jew, etc. We have a common calture and shared DNA. We couldn't have built the country anywhere else in the world. In any other area, we would have been intruders.
Hi there! As a secular Jew like Herzl, I think you might be missing the origin of Zionism. Herzl didn't invent it; he borrowed it from Jewish tradition. Zion, the biblical nickname for Jerusalem, has always been central to Jewish identity. The forced expulsion by the Romans, who renamed the territory Palestine, was a significant trauma and fueled our enduring desire to return, reflected in our traditions and songs. For example, when we get married, we do it with our faces turned to Zion and say "Next year in Zion." This is why it's difficult to separate Zionism from Judaism. Regarding ethnicity and land, would you say Native Americans have no connection to their land? Or that Maori have no ties to New Zealand? What about Aboriginal tribes? By the way, you did an excellent job presenting Herzl. You truly did his story justice!
You didn't listen to what she said, and you don't know facts as well as you think you do. She clearly uses English a lot better than you. Modern Zionism is secular. Now listen again to what she said at 1:11. She said modern zionist movement was founded by Herzl. That is pretty correct(though some might claim somebody a bit earlier than Herzl). Moses Hess wrote a book similar to Herzl's just over 30 years before. Also Eliezer Ben Yehuda was born two years before Herzl and was significant in the zionist movement. (( Tzion is hebrew for City. Zion is an English transliteration of Tzion - my mistake, it's to do with jerusalem specifically eg a mountain in jerusalem or region of jerusalem)). Totally irrelevant since she didn't talk about who coined the term Zionism and who knows who did. Also, Some fundamentalist Jews are non zionist and don't use the term Zionism , and some are zionist , among them some do and some don't use the term zionism..As for whether or not what you say, zionism is difficult to separate from Judaism, it's more accurate to say the connection to Israel is inseperable, but she didn't go there and didn't need to. Zionism can treanscent religion too. Your attempt at erudition was a complete flop. Her video didn't "miss" anything. Other than the fact that it's not possible to fit everything into a 10 minute video. Think about it.
@@boliusabol822 No, Zion in Hebrew does not mean City, it is one of the names of Jerusalem in the old testament, and the linguist scholars are divided on its meaning. According to the Hebrew Academy some think it's from a verb for protection ( metzuda), others think its based on the verb for desert or desolation (tziya), a third scholar supposed it was based on a type of cats called in bibical hebrew tzi'im. I'll add the link in a different answer as to make sure the filter won't delete the entire comment because of it.
@@JamesJordanson Thanks for the correct,ion i've now corrected that part of my comment. I just checked a page on BibleHub for the word Tzion, which pulls together BDB which is a famous classic Biblical Hebrew dictionary, and Strongs Hebrew English Lexicon which is a dictionary for Biblical Hebrew. It says a moutnain in jerusalem, also a name for jerusalem, and it described it as "southern part of east hill of Jerusalem, distinct from site of temple " So there might be some different meanings but all associated with Jerusalem, or Jerusalem itself. And not City. Thanks
@ilq00477able as an Israeli, not as secular as it should be, the fact there isn't public transportation on Saturday is a disgrace, it shouldn't happen in a western democratic society
There is one question that should be asked: Israel was found at the same time Jordan was found and other countries like India, South and North Korea, so why does everyone concern themselves with the question of whether Israel has the right to exist, and not ask whether Jordan has the right to exist or North Korea???
Because israel’s existence depends on western support. They will never become self sufficient. They lack the ability to accept middle east as is. It takes a toll on people to hear about dangerous arabs and islam. Very easy to see keeping israel there is anti-Semitism. Plus many israelis continue being citizens of the western countries.
what's "funny" about this is people who claim that Jews came to Israel illegally and therefore should go back (after 100+ years) also say that borders are racist and that we have to accommodate everyone who comes to the West. Sometimes they say it one sentence after another. And I am like - can you pick at one idiotic position so it doesn't contradict your other idiotic position, please?!
The position is that Izrayl is a racist apthyd ethnostate and the people who flee to the west do so bacause the west led by izrayil is busy bombing their countries
Kiyah - the primary reason for zionism is the fact that the jews are the oldest indigenous population of that land who ALWAYS lived there since 2000BC. Arabs invaded and occupied Israel (which the Romans renamed Palestine) in the 8th century and were persecuting the Jews for centuries (it was not Hiler who invented yellow marking for the Jews - that idea came from the caliphate). And this is the core of the today's conflict. Arabs (the people who call themselves palestinians - the term which was coined in the USSR in the 60s) are very used to having the jews as their serfs or 3-ed class citizens. Just take a look at any arab country - there are no Jews left there and if there are a few - they have to hide or face pogroms and other forms extermination. Jews in this context are more the the Mayans enslaved by the europeans (who decided to call themselves 'americans' and the natives 'indians') and would treat the Mayans calls for independence as 'occupation' with hatered.
I'm sure she would agree that Mayans don't have an inherent right to claim all of Mexico. I am very pro Israel but I think she made an interesting point that I somewhat I agree with.
Juz are not the oldest indigenous population, you forget the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Mesopotamians (itraqis) in fact, Juz are among the youngest. The fact that your voice is the loudest doesn't make it authentic
@@practice4523 , "Of that land" means of the Land of Israel. If you are talking about the entire Middle East and North Africa, then you are still not right. But that's not the issue. That land is not Egypt, not Syria, not Mesopotamia. You are still not right. Because those people who are older than J. are almost all NOT Muslims (mostly Christians), and are currently disappearing. The real Egyptians are Kopts (Christian), the real Mesopotamians are Assyrians and Chaldeans (both Christian), the real Urartuans are Armenians (Christian). Kurds, Amazigh and Persians (all mostly Muslims) are surviving, which is not much. The Arabs and Turks who in every way dominate the entire region are newcomers everywhere except Arabia. Kurds are not doing well. And native Persian religion (Zoroastrianism) and culture are being heavily pressured by the current regime in Iran.
As a Zionist who is also an atheist, she nailed it - bravo. The world needs more people like Kiyah. While I agree with everything in this video and am very grateful to Kiyah for making it, she is technically a Zionist (of the type that she has described), but she prefers not to be called one (which everyone ought to respect for the reasons she has stated). Kiyah, you're a very talented, articulate, bright and decent person - I cannot be the first to have said so, I'm sure you get that a lot. This is not the first time one of your videos has put a smile on my face. I hope you have an awesome day and wish you only the very best.
Even though you are an atheist, you can't ignore the historical fact that the Judeans revolted against the Roman empire in order to live freely in their own ancestral homeland. The Judeans lost that war for freedom and were enslaved and exiled, becoming a homeless and persecuted nation for 1900 years. These Judeans (commonly called Juden in places where they settled, such as Germany) are now called "Jews" by the english speaking world, AND they are all direct descendants of those who fought for their freedom and were exiled as a result. Zionism is NOT some realism of some holy spirit promise, but rather, the simple desire of a native people to end their wandering and persecution and return to their homeland. And as side note, the creation of Israel was not for Jews to have a "safe" place to live, but rather it is a place where Jews can defend themselves when they are attacked - something their European and other host countries never did.
Zionism comes from the word Zion which is one of the names of Jerusalem. Also Jewish people got forced out of the land and there was always Jewish presents in there.
I wouldn't describe your second argument in favour of Zionism, in such simplistic terms. A person who doesn't live in Israel and isn't Jewish, can certainly be excused for not understanding how crucial the land of Israel for the Jewish identity as a people. All previous generations of my family that I aware of, were secular Jews, yet at every family gathering there was a toast: Lets drink to that we meet next year in Jerusalem.
I'm an atheist Israeli and definitely a zionist. Being Israeli jewish and especially Mizrahi, If not for that land my whole family would have been killed by now in Yemen. Sadly, today, Israel's "right to exist" is in other words: my "right to not be killed"
@@practice4523 Where is the apartheid? In Israeli territory there's equal treatment under the law with the same rights to all citizens regardless of race, religion, sex, ethnicity, sexuality etc.
I’m not a Jew but I would consider myself a Zionist since I believe Jews have the right to have there own state after many years of persecution and it’s there ancestral homeland however I can’t say this openly since it would get me into trouble, what’s worse I come from a Muslim family background 😅 Though I can acknowledge some Zionist do tend to be radical and political movements aren’t immune from criticism!
That’s so sad that it could get you into trouble 💔 We appreciate you for just being able to see through the antisemitic propaganda. Please be safe, but also know that we need your voice more than any other type of voice…! Have you heard of Yasmine Mohammed? She is my Hero right now 🙌 her podcast is amazing; you should listen and join the conversation if you can! Be safe and sending love and blessings. We can and must coexist ✡️💞☪️ and not let people divide us or convict us to demonize each other - we are all human! And yes Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich are schmucks- I say that as a proud Zionist! Thank you for your bravery and strength; it really does mean so much.
@@thehocean thank you very much however I'm actually ex muslim so is Yasmine Mohammad, most muslims are anti israel and most ex muslims are pro Israel since they understand the red flags of Jihad and Islamic Caliphate but very few muslims like Laoy, Hamza Howidy and others tend to support Israel
@@rockysandman5489 she said the strawman argument of "because the jewish ancestors lived there 2000 years ago they have a right to the land" that's just the strawman argument of the history of the jewish people and the land of Israel. Jewish communities have been living there for this whole time not just 2000 years ago.
In my point of view, when you call someone a Zionist, they're Patriots who'll defend their country and people at all costs. They are those who build the cities and plow the earth. Without any discrimination of colour, gender or religion. It's not about migration as much as it is loving your country and your community. Thanks for your support in real history and in real people ❤
I think it's part of it but not everyone are builders are fighters in the same way a combat soldiers are and there are other ways to be a zionist too imo of course that these are the most active version of zionism but I also think that people who are doing hasbara are zionists , and people who are living here and raising their children to be good people (and Imo it's also including to teach them how to deal with the bad people out there) and people who are investing in the country's economy or serving the public are also zionists I think there are many ways to achive the same goal but the first people who came here deffenitly did it like you said and sometimes there are people that are doing both or a mixture of fighting and other stuff to serve the country and it's people (sometimes also themselves but this is a different story, and can be both selfish or not selfish)
@@veritascaute5252pointing out a very basic fact as to our right to our land is not strange. Allies are entitled to their opinions, but so long as that opinion does speaks over the group for which they are advocating for. Our historical connection (which is shown through our holidays, our history, historical writings and archaeological findings) to the land - which predates any other group that have come since, is what legitimizes our claim to the land over other groups which arrived via colonialism.
I love love love that you know history, and don't ignore it because it is popular! I feel like zionism as a term has been taken over and now used as a slur, mainly because there are so many of them compared to us. By the end of the day it is not about the word, it is about history, and knowing it.
You are such a shining light! Great nuanced video. Thank you. Zionism to me means this: The Jews originated from Israel (the word Jew means 'of Judea') and the Israeli state has a right to exist. End of. The problem is that anti-Zionism has (very conveniently) become a cover for anti-Semitism. Being a Zionist also means you rule the world and are the cause of all of its problems :)
I’m a secular Zionist who does have a belief that ancestral lands do give a certain amount of entitlement to it’s people’s so on that point I disagree with Kiyah a bit but that was otherwise a well crafted and intelligent case to be made for Zionism.
Then you must also acknowledge the Palestinians’ right to live in the land. You run into all sorts of problems when you give people land claims based on ancestry and genetics. I understand the Jewish people’s desire to return to Israel, but I think whoever conquered it and built it should be the one who gets the final say. Israel exists as it is today because Jewish settlers created it. That’s why Jews have a right to the land. I also think Jews need a homeland to escape to if they are under threat.
@@roseg2239 well the last empire who had the land were the British and they called it quits and basically left the matter for the Jews and Arabs of the then former British mandate of Palestine to work out. Or fight it out as it were. As for the pal estinians land rights. They were given all of gaza in 2005 which was an historic opportunity for a first strep to a greater two state solution. Instead they turned gaza into an Iranian regime back Islamic terror Hell hole and here we are today over 9 months later after October 7th. I’m at a point where I don’t give a fuck about “Palestinian rights”.
@roseg2239 Palestinian’s ancestral homeland is Arabia, located in the desert of Saudi Arabia. That’s where Arabs come from. All Jews have a significant amount of DNA from the Levantine region of the Middle East (Israel). This has been proven by genetic studies. Arabs are from Arabia, and migrated to the Levantine region when Arabs conquered the area. To live in their ancestral homeland would mean going back to Arabia. That being said, if they want to stay in the Levant, they should be able to, as long as they accept the other inhabitants of the land and don’t instigate violence.
@@practice4523 The thing is scientific evidence in archaeology shows no evidence of our origin in Egypt and all evidence of our origin here in the land of Israel.
Dear Kiyah, the Ottoman Empire fell in 1917 (general Alenbi marched on the streets of Jerusalem in 1917 and officially ended the reign of the Ottoman Empire in Jerusalem) - 1922 was the year in which the League of Nations handed over the mandate to rule Palestine to Great Britain in order to eventually establish a Jewish state. The British mandation era ended in 1948 and immediately after that the Jewish leadership declared independence.
I must correct you about Herzl - He did want and intend for the Jewish state to be in Israel/Judea/"Palestine". He only considered other possibilities, because at the time it seems impossible for the Jews to receive a mandate over Israel, and he felt a (justified) rush to save the Jews in Europe from the catastrophe he foresaw was coming.
She has nailed it. She has beautifully articulated the very feelings I’ve had for a long time: I am pro-Israel. I am an “Ally”. I am opposed to anti-Zionism. But I have felt awkward calling myself a “Zionist”.
I am not religious or anything but I support the idea that every nationality should have the right to live in their ancestral land. And yes, that includes the Jews. And yes, Israel is their land. Those brainless pro-pali protesters crack me up when they shout "go back to Poland". Respectfully as an Eastern European, Eastern Europe is not the ancestral land of the Jews. It's definitely ours lol. And it's crazy to me that throughout history zionists considered Africa, South America etc as the land to go to. Like, what claim do they have to South America? All the archeological evidence points them to the Middle East, in South America they would be simply the invaders. Of course, individuals are more than welcome to travel and chose to live anywhere in the world, but to suggest that anybody has a right to some land they have no connection to is just funny to me.
Nobody cares where they are from, we care that they murder people and move into their homes, today, in the West Bank. If a group of Asians who claimed Native American blood, carved out a spot in New York and murdered everyone inside, and then when they fought back they would claim ‘terrorist’ and ‘why didn’t you accept my deal’ I don’t think you would feel the same way
Hi Kiyah. As a Zionist Jewish person, I just want to let you know that many of us view Zionism as simply the ideology that supports self determination for the Jewish people in a nation state of their own with equal rights and liberties for all of its citizens. If that sounds like an ideology you can support, we are so happy to have you :)
as a non-jewish atheist that lived in israel for quite a while I agree with everything you said, and I wanna add a little bit. despite not believing in god, I find no harm in seeing specifically the land of israel as the place for the jewish state, especially when so many jews feel a great connection to it. putting aside anything religion, the connection of jews to the land is understandable; many stories in the bible reffer to places that you can visit today, and I find it really cool. regardless if god exist or not, traces of stories in the bible are still visible today.
Interesting and thought provoking, as usual. Always good to hear your thinking, even (and maybe especially) when you challenge my beliefs. Thank you, and glad you are back! (An Israeli atheist Zionist)
You name two perspectives of Zionism, religues and ethnic. But there's also the historic/culturel perspective. Jewish texts(or at least the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh) always refer to Jerusalem and the land of Israel. And I don't need to believe in those texts themselves, but I do belive my ancestors had some relations with that belife-identity-culuture. Otherwise why be Jewish in the diaspora at all? And how did I happend to be born in this country? If a country for the Jewish people had been established in Uganda or in some land in South America than it would be pretty much similar to the colonialistic entity we are oftenly mistaken to be.
Thank you, you are lovely ❤ From a secular Isreali who believes in the same values you do. You are right, we have radicals here and there interpretation of zionisem is problematic, but it's not all of us. Just like any other country on the planet, we have our cocos.. And we try to keep the in check
Hi Kiyah, I don't understand this question: "Does Israel have the right to exist?" It exists, end of story. Is asking if the USA has the right to exist a legitimate question? Does it matter if you believe in the God of the Jews or not? There is no such thing as being native to a land. All humans originally came from Africa. Take the Indians, for example, or what some people call Native Americans-they are a group of people who came from Asia. They are not native to this land. We Israelis love you, but we don't care if you think we have the right to exist or not in our state.
True. Keep in mind that there were always Jews who lived in Israel - since Roman times. And there were waves of Jewish immigration throughout the years, not only to escape from violence, but for religious reasons. Also, Jews did not only come to Israel from Europe but also from non-European countries - for example, Yemen. Jews did not only want to have a homeland to escape anti-Semitism, but also to allow Jews to develop a unique culture, and not to continue to be a minority within a majority country. I think that the anti-Zionists do not merely oppose Jews having a sovereign country - most of them believe that almost all the Jews who currently live in Israel should be removed from the land - in other words, "ethnic cleaned".
Zion- the original name of Jerusalem and hence Israel is at the core of the Jewish Identity as a religion and as an ethnic group mentioned in every Jewish book, poem, scriptures, art. The longing to return to Israel the Jewish homeland has been an inseparable part of the Jewish psyche of all Jews those In Europe, the middle east and Africa. Jewish presence has always been in what was then called Palestine mainly in Jerusalem and Tzfat, Abundant Archeological findings and historical documents prove the deep historical connection to the area thousands of years before any Arab came and settled in the land mainly seeking for work during the late 19th century simultaneously to the first waves of Zionist immigration.
Wow this girl is impressive. open heart sharp intellect. Taking the time doing the homework understanding the situation and explain it so clearly. Such a rare phenomenon in this time of darkness and stupidity. Keep it up.Love and respect ❤️
really, it doesnt matter - its been 80 years since israel reconstition you know how many countries came to the world in this last 80 years? all of them in wars. Israel dosent need anyone permission.
About Herzl not caring about the place is not entirely exact. He, from the beginning, wanted the land of Yisrael it's just that he did not think, given the rabid antisemitism prevalent in islam, that the world would let Jews reestablish their state there which is why he did present these other options (as a temporary solution) which were ultimately abandoned. And the return to this specific land is not just 'for old times sake' but a religious necessity which he was aware and embraced. A proof of that is what he said in his opening statement of the 1897 Basel Zionist convention (the transcript can be found online): "Zionism is the return to Judaism even before the return to the land of the Jews." Just wanted to point out that Yisrael was always the goal simply because religiously, it's impossible to live fully the Torah (hence to live outside Yisrael is called exile). A good deal of the commandements of the Torah are specifically designed to be observed in the land of Yisrael and nowhere else.
As an Israeli jew, this is the first time ever I have seen a foreigner that actually did research and mostly didn't misrepresent the Jewish approach, thanks for that! As for the connection of Jews specifically for the land of Israel: while an atheist might not believe in a supernatural connection between a people and a land, I believe that a conneciton that is rooted in history and culture absolutely is compatible with even atheistic world view. The Judiasm's holy sites are in the land of Israel, the cultural and historical connection is undeniable. If the Jews need a state of their own, why Uganda and not the land of Israel? Uganada has never been important to the Jewish people, they have never settled there, however in the land of Israel is where they were created, where their culture and religion is rooted. If that's not enough to convince you that the Jews should be in the land of Israel specifically, at least the fact that you do support the state of Israel at it's current place as it's already exists and don't ask of it's destruction like some people do.
Zionism, to me (a secular Jew from Israel) means establishing a state for the Jews specifically in the land of Israel. The biblical justifications are, to us - athiests, irrelevant, but neither of us can deny the historical evidence proving Jews lived in this area. So, if we're asking ourselves: "Why speficically this land?", I'll ask back (like a Jew): "Why not?". Any land given to the Jews to become Israel, would suffice, and would create a shelter for Jews, but from my perspective - this trend now is not against Israel. It's against Jews. Meaning, even if Israel would be established in Uganda, or in the territory of the United States, or in Europe - it would have suffered the same hatered and anti-semitism. Palestine is just an excuse. If you look deeper into the conflict, it revolves around Israel and Jews. Not about Arabs and not about Palestine. The conflict is not a "0 sum game". If anyone really cares for Palestinians, they would advocate for peace with Israel. But instead of advocating peace, they advocate sanctions, boycotts, supporting terror organizations, using double standards... TLDR; Zionism is an excuse to hate on Jews, just as Jews were hated way before Israel ever existed. Israel exists because anti-semitism, and anti-semitism exists because Jews exists. We, the Jews living in Israel, will have to agree to disagree with everyone wanting us dead. We'll keep on living, pissing off every single anti-semite 🙂
First of all, thank you. Secondly, I found your "wish for Israel to not have to exist" as belittling. Israel is not just a safe haven for jews, it's our National project on the land that is our historic homeland. It is a place our ancestors dreamed and preyed to come back to. I agree that a land doesn't have any magical ties to anyone, and of course no one has to be a zionist if they think the title doesn't fit them. But Israel is not just a solution for antisemitism, it is a place for Jews to be who they really want to be and create and speak our own language. We established our country here and not somewhere else and It's not because of ownership, rather because we were made a people and a nation here, and no other place. Most importantly, it's home now, and we won't give up on our home :)
I think the reason why Israeli Jews claimed to that land genetically is because they don’t want to labeled as colonizers from people outside of that country! That’s why they started claiming there ancestors living in that land and originating from that land!
@@rivel-rl01 No I do believe jews originated from judea however this Lady was mostly talking about Theador how he badly wanted a jewish country which his first plan was Uganda due to jewish suffering but changed his plan to British Mandate of Palestine!
just to clarify : there always were Jewish people living in the land of Israel, since bible times, even before the islam . they were a minority, sure, but there ALWAYS were there.
Judaism is not just a religion, Judaism was created to maintain the Jewish people's native identity way of life, culture, aspirations, and connection to the Land of Israel, in order to one day rejoin those that never left and revive their civilization.
Hi Kiyah, I like your way of thinking and your effort to be knowledgeable in the subject you're talking about. As an Israeli I would like to mention a few things: Your review of Herzl and the beginning of Zionism was pretty accurate. Also your description of Israel as a liberal democracy. It's true that the early Zionists were mostly secular, however most of them came from religious families and the connection between the Jewish people and the land of Israel is not because 2000 years ago Jews lived there. That connection is a historic and religious connection that was alive for 2000 years. If you were a religious Jew, you said prayers about Jerusalem every day, even if you were a secular Jew you knew, and were reminded by your neighbors, that the land you come from originally is the holy land. There is a huge volume of tradition and heritage and culture throughout the 2000 years that the Jews lived in the diaspora that expresses the strong connection between the Jews and the land of Israel. Jews kept on going back and settling in the holy land throughout the centuries, especially in what are considered the sacred towns for Jews in the holy land. In the Israeli declaration of independence it is said that we Jews establish the state of Israel based not only on the UN international partition plan but because of our natural historic right over this land. It doesn't say anything about religious right but about the historic right and the fact that historically the Jewish people was formed in the holy land and had sovereignty in it in the past. I also want to mention that the Jewish society in the holy land has changed a lot over the years. One of the changes is that the religious part of this society, which in the beginning of Zionism was a small minority, has grown dramatically over the years. Not because many Israelis "saw the light" and decided to become religious, but because of the huge difference in the birthrate between secular and religious Israelis. Meaning religious Jews (especially ultra orthodox) have a lot more children than secular Jews. So now you have what I consider an undesirable situation where a big minority of the Israeli society has been raised not on the principles of democracy and liberal values but rather on only religious and national religious values. This resulted in recent years in many frictions between the secular and religious communities inside Israel and in a fight to save Israel's democracy and liberalism. Beside that, based on what you said about god I think you'd better call yourself agnostic and not atheist. I was agnostic, raised in a secular Jewish Israeli family. However, after watching thousands of near death experience reports on RU-vid I now think that there's probably a god, afterlife etc. I don't thing religions are what's important.
I do believe Jews have a religious base in the land but as a Jew I don’t like using any religious arguments when arguing the points because we don’t have collective consensus on g-d. Well done
You're wrong about the justification for Isreal, the claim is historic. People feel sense of belonging because if religion but the claim is completely historic.
I actually have a problem with how the term has been demonetized. Originally the term meant "the right for Jews to live exist in a place where they can call their home(or ancient homeland)/the right for them to live". I have to agree on the religious belief not being a good reason; but it's actually the more orthodox Jews who hate the idea of Jews in Israel. Israel is more secular than religious. They believe they have a right to be there because of the historical evidence that suggests that they did indeed have a homeland. I don't think that's a wrong reason. Even if you dislike this reason because it was "too long ago" then people should at least view Jews who first arrived in Israel(previously Palestine and anciently "israel") as refugees who were rejected by Muslims because of their xenophobic and religious extremism(even if some/few of these people were previously Jews in ancient times). That's how the war happened and Jews won with help of other countries, because they(other countries) rejected the idea of Jews living in European countries or any other places really (as well as some others felt bad because of 6 million genocide of their people). Logically speaking, if you don't have a home and your people are persecuted everywhere would you settle in a place where another potential new genocide could happen or would you settle in a place where you have the right to be in because you have cultural/and genetic ancestry to? Zionism being now coined with Nazism is the most vile and disgusting thing I have ever witnessed people do.
As an atheist American Jew, to be fair, it's not just "Jews' ancestors lived in the land 2,000 years ago." Jews have been CONTINUOUSLY living there for the last 2,000 years (even though we didn't have a self-governing sovereign territory) and Jews have had continuous historical and cultural ties to the land through that continuous contact with the region. (I recently read "The Memoirs of Gluckel of Hameln" about a 1600's German Jew, and she casually mentions her plans to move to the Holy Land after her kids were married off. And she mentions it so matter-of-factly, like it was a thing a lot of pious Jews did, and not something revolutionary or unusual for her. The way you'd think of older folks today casually mentioning their plans to retire and travel after their kids have grown up and moved out.) But other than that, I do agree and I love your video and your argument. Like you said, the fact that Israel is very liberal and atheist-friendly despite Judaism's religious roots is in its favor, and I agree that Jews shouldn't NEED a homeland to be physically safe from violence and annihilation in the first place. But that IS the world we live in, and we have to deal with the world as it is, not as we'd like it to be.
Can you please make a video about the anti black rhetoric of Pro-Pali content creators such as Maya and Rosol, the latter of which called black people colonizers and had a break down on TikTok, crying because "Black people aren't supporting Palestine hard enough. Its a very viral topic on tiktok rn.
The ethnic counter argument is that the Jewish people have been a displaced people from the land as it was formally known as Judea. We consider ourselves of sorts of a historic ethnic group that have deep ties to the land, In the same sense for the maouri people, aboriginial, and native americans.
I got where you are coming from and I can tell you that there are ton of people that believe Zionism to be tons of stuff but there is a common thread to all 'Jews should have a place to call home where they can control their own destiny' the rset is just derssing.
I do believe that I have the right to live in Israel because of I am indigenous to this land. Show me a text in Hebrew from 2000 years ago, I’ll be able to read it. You can’t throw a rock here without finding some old Jewish persons grave or mosaic or synagogue. And when I come back to Israel from abroad after visiting family, I feel like I can let out a breath I didn’t even realize I was holding in.
I am a 100% secular, agnostic Jewish Israeli. My family has already been living here for over a century, so I am a descendant of those early Zionist pioneers you have mentioned. I would like to make it clear that those people were mostly hardcore secular in their worldview and convictions, almost down to the last one. Therefore the justification for Zionism that you, for some reason, presented as being first in importance - the so-called Divine Promise - was not at all considered valid by most Zionists back then (though it has sadly changed since, as Israeli society has become more religious). The ideological justification was ONLY about the country being our ancestral and historical homeland. The ties to the land were always kept alive by Jews over the ages. Even our ancient Hebrew language was never forgotten, that which is the only language indigenous to the land, and that we all speak now as our mother tongue. As a matter of fact, one of the most common chants in anti-Semitic demonstrations in Europe back then was "Jews to Palestine!". Back then, even the anti-Semites knew where Jews should go the hell to, quite naturally. To where they had come from. Nowadays, the ignorant descendants of those idiots (take Roger Waters, for example), want the Jews OUT OF Palestine. Go figure. So we've stopped listening, if that's quite all right.
As a Jewish atheist israeli, thank you for this video. There is so much misinformation going around online and people are forcibly taking these complex subjects and boiling them down to simple untrue definitions. Thank you so much for your support Love from Israel עם ישראל חי
@@user-uw5rs9wh3v her point is that Zionisem should be about creating a democracy in the middle east, like Herzel dreamed, not fulfilling the dreams of count less Jews to return to their homeland. I'm not saying she's right, but thats her point. she doesn't care for the history because it changes nothing. both sides are stuck on their nerative of history, that no one will listen to the other, so there is no point arguing about it. what you can argue on is what Israel brings to the table, which a give or take functioning democracy in the middele east, living by the values of the west.
@@shira5887 it's not a point of view. It's a historical fact. Israel is the land of the Jews. And that doesn't mean that others aren't welcome to live in Israel. Historically there was another people living in peace with the kingdom of Judea. The simple rule is- don't try to kill us, and there will be peace. Try to kill us then prepare to get your ass kicked. You can call it Zionism or what ever you want i can't care less
I think the problem is that with most African Americans is that they got completely disconnected from where they came from… from my understanding they don’t know exactly what country they came from even less the culture they had, which is not the case with Jews. We know where we came from and we have the same culture as the Jews 2000 years ago. When I hear about rabbi Akiba he sounds the same as a rabbi now… where I go Jerusalem, when you hear the names of places and people it’s the same names as those back them… of course the are modern ones. The Bible is the history of the Jews, the Bible can be very secular in a way as well.
As an Israeli atheist Jew - I can't agree with you more on every single word you said in this video! I guess humanity is an evolving idea & I wish we would get to a certain maturity in the future where humans could just be and exist with no added tags or labels on them. Humans are humans in all their magnificent diversity and nothing more.
I’m a liberal/democrat and love peace but can’t side with any of the Palestinians politicians or support their charter rights of destroying Israel. Israel has the right to defend themselves and also they are the native people of the land.
No one claim jews suppose to be here becouse of god and supernetural and magic, we are not stupid. We have our bible (tanah) and it have archiology proofs to it, and it say jews where here. Its not a belive, its prooved, and even the names of the citys in israel (and also the arab ones) are still the names they had in the tanah (also before 1948). I personaly dont care about it but i refuse to call it supernetural since its all logical
Kiyah, we are a Jewish-Israeli group that at the moment stays in New Jersey (going back to Israel in 3 months) and would like to invite you for a tour in Jerusalem, Telaviv and other places that you might find interesting and fun. Let us know if you’d like to join us when we return to Israel. ❤🇮🇱
3:50 this is partially correct but important to state that Jewish communities and people never left the region of israel, not during the ottoman empire, nor under the roman or greek empires before then, jewish people are a part of this land for countless generations. so if we are anti colonialist it would be possible to say that the arabs that settled on this land are probably colonizing the land since the arrival of the Turk ottoman empire.
I just want to point out that it's not that Jews lived there 2000 years ago. Jews last has sovereignty over the land 2000 years ago, but they have always lived there. For example, one of the most important religious books in Jewish history, the "Shulhan Aruh" was written in the land of Israel in 1558. For the diaspora Jews, they always yearned to return, saying "next year in Jerusalem" every year
Are you a Czech nationalist if you support the Czechs' right to their own nation state? Zionism was at least originally a movement. Those who support the cause of the Zionist movement don't have to call themselves Zionists.
It's not "imaginary ties" to the land of Israel. Israel has always been an integral part of the Jewish identity, even in the 2000 years of exile. The Jews were forcibly kept out of their land, allowed to maintain their religious identity but not their national identity, but they fought back by creating many rituals to preserve their Jewish national identity alive. For instance, the Jews would pray every day, three times a day, a prayer called Amidah, a string of 18 prayers that contain prayers to one day return to Israel, rebuild it, and become a sovereign nation again. Thus, the Jews living in exile never felt whole, and always suffered because they knew they couldn't express and actualize their true identity. The Jewish community of Poland didn't call itself "the Polish community" but "the Polish exile", those in Morocco called themselves "the Moroccan exile", and so forth. Thus, Israel was always the Jewish homeland, and Zionism is simply the belief that the Jewish nation should be sovereign in its homeland, just like every other nation has the right to be sovereign in its homeland.
I really enjoyed to listen to your perspective. For the most part, I think people use Zionism as the idea that Jews should have a homeland (without the religious or ancestral context) however, you are absolutely right that there are many types of Zionism. It is so refreshing and nice to hear a logical person like you. I’m very glad I found this channel.
Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self-determination in their historic, ancestral homeland. Instead of being the victims of someone else's sometimes hostile, sometimes murderous whims as experienced by the diaspora, they could decide their own fates. They are the indigenous people of the land. Indigeneity never expires. There has been an unbroken Jewish presence in the land for over 3,000 years. In spite of all the expulsions and occupations by Babylonians, Assyrians ,, Greeks, Romans, Islamic Conquest, Ottomans, the British, the Jews have always been present. Zionism a word that's been hijacked to now imply something negative. I am a Zionist.
Hi, Israeli here. I deeply appreciate your reasoning for the existence of Israel, but there's something you're ignoring or forgetting, very much like everyone else - antis as well as pros - about the term Zionism. The term stems not from the creative imagination of Herzl, but from a name of an actual place - Jerusalem/Judea, aka Zion. Jerusalem has dozens of names in Hebrew, Zion being the most famous. The Zioni idea relates specifically to Zion and would not have carried the name "Zionism" had it been executed in Uganda. The reason why Israel was founded in Zion, is because after 2k years of atrocities in Europe, Asia and Africa, Jews were finally served JUSTICE, and had recovered their place of origin, the place from which they were violently exiled by the Romans, the place they could not return to in masses before the British mandate and the holocaust. Second point - you say you are not religious, and it's fine, I'm not either, but ignoring the Bible just because it's the book on which the Jewish and the Christian faiths are based on is sinning to your objective. The Bible is, at its most, a historical document backed with overwhelming archeological and historical evidence, that explain WHY Zion is the place to which the Jews belong, and why it is the only option for a Jewish state. You don't have to be religious to believe the stories about the temple in Jerusalem - it is still partially there! You don't have to believe that today's Nablus is originally (biblically) a Jewish city named Sh'khem, currently completely occupied and renamed by foreigners, the evidence is easy to access. You don't need to be religious to believe Jesus the Jew was born in Beth Lechem (in Hebrew: house of bread), it is historically fact checked by scholars. There are countless more examples for this. One last point, I am also not a zionist, since I reject that the Zioni idea/movement is an "ism". The Zioni idea as it formed in the late 18th century was simply a plan to serve justice to the Jews, as you so well explained. ❤
4:15 Before all this, Herzl wanted the State of Israel to be a home and a safe place for the Jewish people A place where the Jewish people will be able to control their destiny and will not have to depend on and beg for the mercy of other nations A place we will be free!!
